/tg/Station 13

Posted: **Thu Jul 03, 2014 2:20 pm**

Bottom post of the previous page:

The biggest problem with the server is that all frameworks for IC punishments basically do not exist anymore, and whenever someone tries to do a completely legit thing (brigging, demotion, confiscating people's stolen and/or illegal shit, even issuing orders from a superior in the chain of command) the players go apeshit and start either attacking or ban requesting everything in sight. It doesn't help that the IC checks and balances (lawyer, HoP, gaping void in job system that would be an Internal Affairs guy) are even worse. We don't need less RP, we need MORE of it.

Posted: **Thu Jul 03, 2014 2:37 pm**

Brotemis wrote:The golden age was when I was a trialmin.

Quit being so melodramatic, Miggles. Anon3 is completely right.

The "radical" idea of forcenaming even for a week would do the community a lot of good. Anyone remotely attempting to identify as who they actually are would be slapped with a metagaming ban. Think its too controversial or a bad idea or people will leave the server?

Good. Fuck them and fuck you. I would rather new blood in the server that has no idea what they're doing than a bunch of circle jerks. Pandarsenic's example is good.

I've personally seen other HOP's give full access to mimes WITHOUT ANY PRIOR CONVERSATIONS or people pulling each other in the halls, or just in general, act friendly to people and give anything to those they know but hostile to those they dont.

>identities are necessarily bad
>disagree?
>fuck you.
>also fuck player counts
>HoPs giving out free all-access wordlessly is a new thing
>people pulling each other around in between conversations or going places are obviously meta-gaming
>the considerations are in overabundance without my grasp

You've been around for as long as I have, Brotemis. Your "golden age" coincides with when actual metafriend rule 1 violations and sec-harassing were under scrutiny because they were a serious problem due to the armory getting raided and sec bombed each round. Identities are a part of the "community" that you are proposing we do good for by random-naming everyone just as you say that driving the people away from here who are a part of that same community is perfectly fine to do. That doesn't work.

Posted: **Thu Jul 03, 2014 2:44 pm**

Security also had a quick and easy way of dealing with shitlers. Antag sec.

Posted: **Thu Jul 03, 2014 2:47 pm**

Brotemis wrote:Security also had a quick and easy way of dealing with shitlers. Antag sec.

Antag sec a different issue entirely, a license to valid is not something to base your policy of dealing with issues like metafriends assaulting sec and the armory off of. Sec can deal with shitlers quick and easy these days by grabbing them and harmbatoning them, and nobody's going to bitch if, as in the greytides you surely were around for, security beats those responsible down as fast as they can stun them.

Though, really, players being more receptive and chill about IC punishments would be the optimal route. Quite often things are moving too fast to get a proper demotion done.

Posted: **Thu Jul 03, 2014 2:47 pm**

Miauw wrote:have coders vote for headmins :^)

Jokes aside, I think admins should vote for headmins for the same reason why coders should vote for headcoders: the playerbase only sees a fraction of what they really do and who they are.

(also if you like :^) remember that hg popularized it as an alternative to ))))))))))))))))) which was popularized by erro's passive-aggresive 's)

>hg popularized :^)
you have no idea what you're talking about do you?

Posted: **Thu Jul 03, 2014 5:22 pm**

Man, I must be really out of the loop. Wheres all the ERPing and metafreinding that I am not seeing?

The golden age was when I was a trialmin.

Nah, even though you were a very good trailmin (instead of a very hostile fullmin) we still had CDB.

Posted: **Thu Jul 03, 2014 5:26 pm**

Helios127 wrote:Man, I must be really out of the loop. Wheres all the ERPing and metafreinding that I am not seeing?

The golden age was when I was a trialmin.
Nah, even though you were a very good trailmin (instead of a very hostile fullmin) we still had CDB.

*shudder*

Posted: **Thu Jul 03, 2014 6:42 pm**

Higgin wrote:
Helios127 wrote:Man, I must be really out of the loop. Wheres all the ERPing and metafreinding that I am not seeing?

The golden age was when I was a trialmin.
Nah, even though you were a very good trailmin (instead of a very hostile fullmin) we still had CDB.
*shudder*

Actually, this brings up a good question. How much power does a headmin hold? Nobody delt with CDB until way too late, and I am still in shock.

Posted: **Thu Jul 03, 2014 7:18 pm**

Steelpoint wrote:To be honest, with the amount of HoP's that just hand out access like candy I can't tell if the person is just a "friend" of the HoP or just got lucky.

I stopped playing HoP because I actually dare to deny people ridiculous amounts of access and I was taking so much flak for it.

Posted: **Thu Jul 03, 2014 7:20 pm**

Thanks Helios for bringing up issues about someone that hasn't been admin for almost a year.

As a former admin I think leaving the decision of the next headmins solely up to adminbus is a poor idea.

Posted: **Thu Jul 03, 2014 7:22 pm**

captain sawrge wrote:Thanks Helios for bringing up issues about someone that hasn't been admin for almost a year.

As a former admin I think leaving the decision of the next headmins solely up to adminbus is a poor idea.

Will you be my vice headmin sawrge. We can change everything

Posted: **Thu Jul 03, 2014 7:25 pm**

bandit wrote:(lawyer, HoP, gaping void in job system that would be an Internal Affairs guy)

HoP was never supposed to get involved in Security, as far as I know. There's a page somewhere on the Wiki that talks about a ruling that Errorage made a long time ago that HoPs should strictly regulate and lord over Security, and it got overturned because frankly some parts of it were rather strange ideas.

Has the lawyer ever been consistently taken seriously as a defender of prisoners' rights, in any age of /tg/station?

Posted: **Thu Jul 03, 2014 7:37 pm**

I wish I was in the business of making people out of straw.

Anyway, there's like around three worthwhile people on that list. Actually working together this time is key. Not just among the head admins either.

I'd like to hear/see more from Anton. I've seen him on Artyom a lot, so I'd like to know if he'd raise up the point of the difference between servers. In short, are you gonna use sweeping generalizations like I've been seeing?
Neerti/Pendarsanic would also fall under this question too.

Posted: **Thu Jul 03, 2014 7:39 pm**

captain sawrge wrote:Thanks Helios for bringing up issues about someone that hasn't been admin for almost a year.

As a former admin I think leaving the decision of the next headmins solely up to adminbus is a poor idea.

Well, this is a serious question. What power does a Headmin hold?

Posted: **Thu Jul 03, 2014 8:16 pm**

ColonicAcid wrote:
Miauw wrote:have coders vote for headmins :^)

Jokes aside, I think admins should vote for headmins for the same reason why coders should vote for headcoders: the playerbase only sees a fraction of what they really do and who they are.

(also if you like :^) remember that hg popularized it as an alternative to ))))))))))))))))) which was popularized by erro's passive-aggresive 's)
>hg popularized :^)
you have no idea what you're talking about do you?

He's right that specifically in this community I forced :^) pretty hard.

:^)

Helios127 wrote:Well, this is a serious question. What power does a Headmin hold?

Ultimately, the real importance of the headmin is that they have the final word on admin matters. He has final say on what happens in an unban appeal, ban request, admin complaint, or in the trial admin process. I don't think they're particularly useful outside of that context, the admin team as a council can make decisions well enough.

Posted: **Thu Jul 03, 2014 8:51 pm**

you really didn't

Posted: **Thu Jul 03, 2014 10:42 pm**

Subtle wrote:This might be an unpopular opinion to have but he's easily one of the most qualified people on that list.

Too bad with player votes, how qualified someone is hardly fucking matters. Seriously, people in this thread should really be focusing more on HOW headmins are elected and stop shit flinging over 'the issues with the server' like it's some kind of political debate.

I'll say it one more time, NONE OF THAT SHIT WILL MATTER IF PLAYERS ARE IN CHARGE OF CHOOSING HEADMINS. THE MOST POPULAR ADMINS WILL BE MADE HEADMINS JUST LIKE LAST TIME BECAUSE THE VAST MAJORITY OF PEOPLE LITERALLY DO NOT GIVE A SINGLE FUCK ABOUT AN ADMIN'S COMPETENCE OR QUALIFICATIONS. IF YOU BANNED SOMEONE IN THE PAST MONTH, THEY ARE NOT GOING TO VOTE FOR YOU. THIS IS NOT A PRESIDENTIAL ELECTION, IT IS A VIDEO GAME.

I'm not trying to undercut every single player and say that NOBODY has the experience or ability to make an educated vote for headmins here, but the VAST MAJORITY are not going to be up to speed with every admin's involvement in the server's administration like the other admins will. You can all argue about who's qualified, who would fix the server, or who would be hitler all you want, but it won't make a fucking SHRED of difference when it comes down to public vote, BECAUSE THIS EXACT SAME THING HAPPENED WHEN HBL, DEURYN, AND INTIGRACY WERE CHOSEN. THE EXACT SAME THING.

Posted: **Thu Jul 03, 2014 10:48 pm**

Brotemis wrote:I've personally seen other HOP's give full access to mimes WITHOUT ANY PRIOR CONVERSATIONS or people pulling each other in the halls, or just in general, act friendly to people and give anything to those they know but hostile to those they dont.

ban. them. problem solved.

Posted: **Thu Jul 03, 2014 10:54 pm**

>someone does their job wrong
>'what are we supposed to do?!??!?'

Posted: **Thu Jul 03, 2014 11:05 pm**

For the question of 'what are your definitions of power/metagaming', it's probably one of the hardest questions an admin has to answer, but yet must come up with some kind of definition, even if it's just mirroring the policy. As such, I have 'three' definitions of both. The first is what I want the definition to be. The second is a more 'realistic' definition that would be more accepted with the public, and the third is the current policy.
The first I simply wish could be true, I wish that roleplay was a more prominent feature of the game, but wishing doesn't get anything done, and if I were able to actually achieve this dream, it would probably alienate a large portion of the players and kill the server, due to the methods to achieve my ideal, so it's merely a dream.
The second is a compromise of the first and current policy and the playerbase. I have written a draft of some of this, that you can find in the policy subforum.
The third is based on current policy interpretation. I only use the third, and my judgement, for admin matters, as personal opinions and wishes should not cloud up a ruling.
To give a rather broad and not very useful (but perhaps a very accurate) definition of a 'powergamer', would be a 'munchkin', which has it's roots in tabletop games (and so does /tg/).

In tabletop games like DnD, usually all the players and the GM are there to participate in a game, with the agreement that everyone was there to have fun, role-playing with their characters and overcoming obstacles that come up. The Munchkin is a 'type' of player that tries to 'win' at the game, where 'winning' isn't the goal or point of the game. They often do this by 'min-maxing' I need those gloves, toolbelt, armor, taser, and of course my cardbord helmet, in-case any xenos show up, 'rules lawyering' It doesn't say that I CAN'T check the AI's laws every two minutes for no reason., 'metagaming' Obvious. You can draw a ton of parallels from munchkins to powergamers, and they're basically the same, just one inhabits a different medium.

So, technically you get a definition, but it's not very useful, since everyone here is basically a munchkin to some degree. So the 'line' for metagaming for the server has been hazy, as everyone has their interpretations on how far is 'too much', which changes over time as new rulings are made, the playerbase changes, etc. Defining your own standard for power/metagaming is just adding another drop in a sea of opinions. So me stating my opinion on meta/powergaming (they're basically the same thing as metagaming is a symptom of powergaming) wouldn't be useful, I believe. What -is- useful is to put the server's needs before my opinion. I have attempted a draft of policy which still needs serious work, but if you read though it, you should see how it tries to create a balance of 'new, anti-powergamy' things and try to keep the status quo intact, in an attempt to make it easy to adopt. From the future, you can move towards more 'anti-powergamy' rules if it is successful.

But that's all just theory, and the question remains unanswered, so perhaps the best way to answer is to give three answers, in the same format as my three definitions.
1. Powergaming is when you attempt to 'win' at the game at the detriment of other players. (This fails as everyone does this, even me (I'm guilty of the captain-insulated glove thing))
2. Powergaming is when you use a game mechanic that admins have deemed to violate 'fair play' and kills fun for the other players. (In theory this is what it is now. This fails due to 1. Humans decide what is/isn't 'fair play' and humans being humans, we're not logical. 2. Writing down what is 'fair play' will result in a book that dwarfs a law book. 3. What is 'fair play' can change and the huge law book of fair play has to be updated. 4. If you don't use a definitive definition on what is/is not 'fair play' but instead use case by case studies, you run into 'what is meta?'. If you do a combo of 'law book' and 'case by case', it might be better as that's my intention with my new policy ideas, as the rules also act as guidelines for admins (or at least they should), but who knows.)
3. Powergaming is a buzz word, used for or against people who violate their perceived standard. (This is basically how it is at this current state)

I'm sorry if those are poor definitions but the question is already hard to answer in a good way.

As for the metagangs (this is more of a rant, so apologies),
Adminbus, I'm sorry, but you're really misinformed. Yes, there is a problem, but you don't know the intricacies, the numbers, the whos, the whens, and most importantly the proofs. You need information to act on before you can do the purge, the crusades, the culling, the whatever dramatic act of removing problem players from the server. When told in adminbus that 'the metagang on artyom is a problem', I couldn't facepalm harder.
THEY DON'T KNOW THERE IS MORE THEN ONE GROUP.
With that critical detail apparently missing, how could I know if they had vital information like whom, when, or even have proof when they apparently lacked hard data. Without such a thing, if you place bans on people for 'metacomming' or 'metafriending', be prepared for hell.
Most people don't know this, but I manually make spreadsheets on admin activity every month (which is technically 30 days every month because easy). It not only covers if an admin logged in at least once on a particular day, but which servers they tend to log in the most.
I calculated the percentage of 'coverage' that is spent across the servers, and here are a few pictures.

is May's percentage. The first slot is sybil, second is basil, third is artyom. This isn't surprising due to how sybil has lots of players, so it's only logical that lots of admins go there too.

Here's June's coverage, as well.
The issue comes up when people who don't admin artyom try to handle artyom issues without information or context (This generally happens to anyone who tries to handle a big issue but not knowing the intricacies) The solution isn't to merely 'ban the asses'. They'll only get appealed a month later and the other metafrienders will become harder to catch.
I have big plans for trying to solve the metagangs, but I don't wish to show my hand too early. All that I will say is that I vow to do my best to handle all of the server's problems. I can't guarantee I fix them (I likely can't), but I will try.

Random Appearances will just cause tensions and (rightful) criticisms towards the administration, as it's a blanket solution to a nonblanket problem. It's the nuclear option for metagang elimination, and I'd rather avoid the fallout (yay metaphor), especially when it doesn't even need to be used.

Posted: **Thu Jul 03, 2014 11:08 pm**

neerti, those percentages are exactly the same
is that a coincidence or

Posted: **Thu Jul 03, 2014 11:13 pm**

Neerti wrote: is May's percentage. The first slot is sybil, second is basil, third is artyom. This isn't surprising due to how sybil has lots of players, so it's only logical that lots of admins go there too.
Here's June's coverage, as well.

Uh, what

It's a same picture.

Posted: **Thu Jul 03, 2014 11:18 pm**

I made an oopsie.

I'll fix that now.
-edit- Also the significance isn't really in the difference between months, but the distribution between servers.

Posted: **Thu Jul 03, 2014 11:55 pm**

Paprika, for once in my life I'm completely lost on something nice to say. I'm going to do the most stupid* thing and respond directly.

In the words of some of my more abrasive colleagues, please fuck off. There's no point to arguing how an election that's not happening the way you insist shouldn't be happening the way you insist. The people whose opinion consists of nothing more than "fuck you" are being, and should be, disregarded. Neerti and Pandar have answered a few questions and between the insulting interjections and slight derailing we've managed to identify a few issues people feel strongly about. That's what our Headmins are signing up to "fix". (much as they can) We all saw how the previous elections have failed. Everyone was there. You don't need to scream about how badly they did. There is, at present, no public vote!

The ONLY thing that matters is who's qualified and who's going to be a problem solver. Who's good for the server.
If you don't care about those things you've got your priorities twelve kinds of wrong and honestly don't deserve any sort of say.

We're having a (relatively) civil discussion and I'd appreciate your leaving that be so we don't have a repeat of the last thread.

/thread and career suicide

*I can't English properly today.

Posted: **Fri Jul 04, 2014 12:12 am**

If you forced random names/appearances for a week, I'd stop playing. Well, I haven't logged on for the last month, but y'know. I'm not going to be a pretentious ass and say I put a ton of thought and time and effort into my character, because let's face it - I'm a shitty roleplayer and I'm only in-character half the time anyway. But I know John Doe gets shit done, I know Christina Mordhauser is war crimes incarnate. I know Acheron-7 is dependable and competent, I know Paxton Gadow likes the ladies. I enjoy throwing on some foppiness and maybe a poofy hat and being Lady Dame Captain Lyra Alexander Ikari Kerensky Steiner-Davion II, Heir to the Duchy of Hesperus II, Dame-Errant of the Order of the Silver Gryphon, Commanding Officer, NTSS-13 'Artyom'

I'll be the first to admit that a lot of the so-called role-players, myself included, don't put a lot of effort in. However, we're all defined characters that we have some level of attachment to. We've each got our own reputation, our own contacts, our own circles of trusted allies, inept buffoons, and malicious grifons. Honestly, if it was up to me? I'd remove random name/body entirely and port Bay's examine character descriptions. Forcing random is forcing your playstyle on me, and I do not enjoy that. Don't throw the baby out with the bathwater man.

Posted: **Fri Jul 04, 2014 12:20 am**

paprika wrote:>someone does their job wrong
>'what are we supposed to do?!??!?'

Jobban he. Seriously, I wish we could hand out jobbans, even wrist-slap one-round jobbans for chronic ineptitude. If there's no power at 20m in, blanket jobbans for engineering. If the HoP gives someone captain-level access without a conversation or a good reason, jobban he. If the Captain can't grab the disk, jobban. If Sec can't tell you why someone's in the brig, jobban he. If the QM isn't going to order anyone's crates, jobban he. If the chemist is fucking off with a belt full of chloral and a backpack full of thermite, jobban he. Geneticist, superpowers, candy. RD, Borgs, blown 4nr, fuck why not chef, nofood.

A jobban is the lightest punishment you can give, especially if it's something trivial like an hour long. I'm not saying incompetence is a big issue here, because this is TGS and we're all pretty robust. But if we laid out the basic responsibilities of each job and said "This is what you're expected to do", we'd have a lot less of it.

Edit:

Powergaming...Eh. I would call the line at being obtrusive and/or going out of your way; Limit yourself to things your job has by default, or can easily obtain.

Taking the case of insulated gloves and tools, I'd expect an engineer to have them. I wouldn't bat an eye if an Atmo Tech had them, but an MD or a chemist? No. The line between skill and munchkin is when you become obnoxious or obtrusive, especially if it's consistent.

Posted: **Fri Jul 04, 2014 12:24 am**

Psyentific wrote:If you forced random names/appearances for a week, I'd stop playing.
Forcing random is forcing your playstyle on me, and I do not enjoy that.

Posted: **Fri Jul 04, 2014 12:27 am**

As said before, if the idea is too radical for you then fuck you

Posted: **Fri Jul 04, 2014 12:30 am**

Y'know Brotemis, this is why people don't like you. Exactly this.

Posted: **Fri Jul 04, 2014 12:31 am**

the idea is about as fucking retarded as doing the opposite, and forcing heavy rp like bay.
its uprooting the entirety of the /tg/ structure because of a problem which could be solved by actually banning the people causing issues - punishing everyone for the actions of several people.

Posted: **Fri Jul 04, 2014 12:37 am**

Sorry you're getting called out on a dumb blanket maneuver because you won't get specific.

Posted: **Fri Jul 04, 2014 2:40 am**

miggles wrote:
Brotemis wrote:I've personally seen other HOP's give full access to mimes WITHOUT ANY PRIOR CONVERSATIONS or people pulling each other in the halls, or just in general, act friendly to people and give anything to those they know but hostile to those they dont.
ban. them. problem solved.

Oh I remember that, it was over a year ago when I first started playing and wasn't completely familiar with the rules yet. A mime asked for general station access and I gave it to them, and after a few subsequent shifts I'd do the same because I was assuming they were just coming to ask for it again anyway.

As for pulling people in the halls, I don't do it or really see it often, but what's wrong with it? It's a perfect way to simulate walking along with each other, and you try talking and moving at the same time. If you're really getting upset at something as petty as that, maybe you should "fuck off" yourself?

So please Brotemis, maybe your awful suggestion would have some more weight if you actually gave specific names and examples.

Back on topic, who the fuck is Fateweaver again? Will Deuryn actually be active if he gets chosen or is he going to spend half his time as headmin not ever being around.

Posted: **Fri Jul 04, 2014 3:07 am**

But metafreinds cant 'butt in' and DEMAND! someone get unbanned anymore thanks to the controverisal (but in this case benificial!) stance on Shitposts being Egauhhhh

Forcing random names is a solution yes, but its a hell of an annoying one. I personally like to have my gimmicks that stick to my character.

Also, does nothing to clowns. Honk.

Posted: **Fri Jul 04, 2014 3:12 am**

Isane wrote:Back on topic, who the fuck is Fateweaver again?

Seriously though, like nobody has said who he is.

Posted: **Fri Jul 04, 2014 3:28 am**

Who the hell is Fateweaver?

Posted: **Fri Jul 04, 2014 3:34 am**

mrpain wrote:Who the hell is Fateweaver?

So true.

He was on for at least one round on Artyom like two nights ago, he's apparently an admin, but someone who knows his name has yet to speak up.

Posted: **Fri Jul 04, 2014 3:45 am**

Cipher3 wrote:
mrpain wrote:Who the hell is Fateweaver?
So true.

He was on for at least one round on Artyom like two nights ago, he's apparently an admin, but someone who knows his name has yet to speak up.

he's sos in disguise

that is the only answer

Posted: **Fri Jul 04, 2014 4:03 am**

Fatbeaver was/is an admin from ancient days of yore. I think he predates everyone on adminbus except for SoS and Deuryn at this point. It's kinda nostalgic to see him logging in again.

Does this mean he's going to be back or something? Beats me.

In re: to forced random

There was a time when you were new here and didn't have a character and friends and were just a faceless nobody new player and you still found something good about the game and stuck around played it. There were core qualities that made you have fun and got you to stick around long enough to actually meet the people who kept killing you or being killed by you long enough to make friends.

Ensuring that those qualities are still there and still good is more important than making sure you get to maintain your roleplay. This "roleplay" is interfering with that core experience. If it's between one or the other, it's an obvious choice which one we should set aside or even outright eliminate.

Posted: **Fri Jul 04, 2014 4:05 am**

Well, you never quit SS13.

Posted: **Fri Jul 04, 2014 4:18 am**

An0n3 wrote:Fatbeaver was/is an admin from ancient days of yore. I think he predates everyone on adminbus except for SoS and Deuryn at this point. It's kinda nostalgic to see him logging in again.

Does this mean he's going to be back or something? Beats me.

In re: to forced random

There was a time when you were new here and didn't have a character and friends and were just a faceless nobody new player and you still found something good about the game and stuck around played it. There were core qualities that made you have fun and got you to stick around long enough to actually meet the people who kept killing you or being killed by you long enough to make friends.

Ensuring that those qualities are still there and still good is more important than making sure you get to maintain your roleplay. This "roleplay" is interfering with that core experience. If it's between one or the other, it's an obvious choice which one we should set aside or even outright eliminate.

3 years ago we had metagroups with yinadele and sshit (which you were actually a part of) so what are you talking about
Anyway, here we go:
Antonkr: has no leadership qualities along with the inability to distance themselves from situations, causing tunnel vision.
Deuryn: Zero activity
Hornygranny: Pompous (is only an admin because old power)
Ikarrus: I don't see anything special with ikarrus, alright i guess
Neerti: Huge tunnel vision
Pandarsenic: Tunnel vision; is in impartial
Elyina: Tunnel vision, overly strict
Fateweaver(?): who (nah just kidding, I know who you are, but you don't play the game and shouldn't be a headmin or admin for that matter)
Really, the only admin who has the ability for headmin is SubtleGraces.
Now, I like nearly every single one of the headmin candidates, but they wouldn't be good leaders. I know humans aren't perfect, but the vast majority of people do not possess the qualities to be a leader

Spoiler:

Posted: **Fri Jul 04, 2014 4:19 am**

it hasn't been three years has it

no

that's not possible

nepeta leijon and sly were metagroups and anon was there but that wasn't three years

n o

Also, Anon - what a lot of people found fun and stuck with after they'd gotten here was the community with its characters, both IC and OOC. The fact that people are still here to testify to those days is enough to prove that and disprove your statement about what is fundamentally fun.

Posted: **Fri Jul 04, 2014 4:24 am**

Higgin wrote:it hasn't been three years has it

no

that's not possible

nepeta leijon and sly were metagroups and anon was there but that wasn't three years

n o

2011

Posted: **Fri Jul 04, 2014 4:48 am**

420goslingboy69 wrote:
Higgin wrote:it hasn't been three years has it

no

that's not possible

nepeta leijon and sly were metagroups and anon was there but that wasn't three years

n o
2011

, _ ,

Posted: **Fri Jul 04, 2014 4:58 am**

You mean to tell me that because you can't play your special snowflake and play with your special snowflake friends it's going to ruin your RP experience?

How horrifying, to be forced to give everyone a blank slate and a fresh start

No metagrudges. No metafriends. Final destination.

Posted: **Fri Jul 04, 2014 5:08 am**

Brotemis wrote:You mean to tell me that because you can't play your special snowflake and play with your special snowflake friends it's going to ruin your RP experience?

How horrifying, to be forced to give everyone a blank slate and a fresh start

No metagrudges. No metafriends. Final destination.

You know how admins hate nonspecific feedback of "Admins are shit because certain shitmins"? Us players consequently hate this nonspecific feedback about how "The community is shit because of certain players"

GIVE NAMES OR SHUT UP

Posted: **Fri Jul 04, 2014 5:22 am**

420goslingboy69 wrote:3 years ago we had metagroups with yinadele and sshit (which you were actually a part of) so what are you talking about

There was a skype group I chatted with people in but as far as I knew it was a sidechat. I don't recall anyone ever talking about anything spacemen related beyond general drama and code changes. It was mostly people talking about Natty Light and calling eachother faggots.

The only "metafriend" I can think of was when I was playing Sera Lessen, and would hang out with Amy Lessen/Xennith.

Totally unrelated to present conversation: Didn't someone jack my entire RP with Amy? I heard someone else was running around claiming to be another clone/daughter and had a laugh.

Helios127 wrote:
Brotemis wrote:You mean to tell me that because you can't play your special snowflake and play with your special snowflake friends it's going to ruin your RP experience?

How horrifying, to be forced to give everyone a blank slate and a fresh start

No metagrudges. No metafriends. Final destination.
You know how admins hate nonspecific feedback of "Admins are shit because certain shitmins"? Us players consequently hate this nonspecific feedback about how "The community is shit because of certain players"

GIVE NAMES OR SHUT UP

It's pointless to name names or point fingers because the next logical question is "What proof do you have?"
And of course there isn't any because it's not like it just appears in the logs that this CKey handed over X item to this CKey X number of times, or spends X amount of minutes per round within Y proximity, etc. etc.

It's patterns of behavior on a macro scale. You'd be asking us to provide proof of people's cooperation negatively affecting the server on a grand scale. Those of us who believe it's a problem have already stated our perspectives on its effects. There is nothing to show for it but the eyewitness testimonials of people who have slogged through FNR or sat quietly observing global, dsay, and ahelp for days on end. Beyond that I would point to how our reputation changes and monitoring the influx/retention of new players.

Ultimately it's a question of what is more important:
Maintaining a flow of new players into our community by ensuring they're coming into a play environment that is fair and not biased towards popular players or against unknowns.
Keeping the players we have happy by allowing them to bring their personal relationships with eachother into the game proper.

Posted: **Fri Jul 04, 2014 6:02 am**

I really don't see where the problem is here. We have at most may be 6-8 players that even come close to the circlejerks of old on sibyl. That doesn't stop new players from coming in. There's usually at least two people a day coming in saying they're new and I never recognize all the faces. And fuck, I've been playing Tim Ebow for years and the closest I've had to a metafriendship is me and Bryce beating and tabling each other. I just don't see the meta friendship thing as a problem, at least not on sibyl. Mountain out of a mole hill here.

Posted: **Fri Jul 04, 2014 6:05 am**

Okay, No, I get it. We should just disregard all complaints about metafreinds ruining the server (just as admins disregard all complaints they get about being abrasive)

No but seriously, Dalta/Dante metafreinding teir of "Im going to tell my buddy I am antag who will help me" is over now. If its actually a superhuge problem, I have anouther solution then forcenames.

Give them an antag objective of "Kill X, your metafreind" and "Avoid unnecessary casualties".

Beep Boop I am a robot and wish to complain about the cancer while not going into detail on who the cancer is beep bop.

anyways I am glad napkin rolled out details on the canidates. I like you all (except for the CERTAIN ADMIN WHO IS A SHITMIN, not going to name names) but I can only vote for three.

Posted: **Fri Jul 04, 2014 6:13 am**

Brotemis wrote:You mean to tell me that because you can't play your special snowflake and play with your special snowflake friends it's going to ruin your RP experience?

How horrifying, to be forced to give everyone a blank slate and a fresh start

No metagrudges. No metafriends. Final destination.

Yes, because i don't like months of character development and backstory wiped because you can't be arsed to drag your mouse over the ban panel, pick out the names of people being absolute shits with their metabuddied and BAN THEM.

Honestly, is it that hard for you to to pick out the couple of bad apples in the bunch instead of just tossing the entire basket full of good ones into an incinerator?

Posted: **Fri Jul 04, 2014 6:16 am**

I don't really get this complaint that people being all IC friends and stuff alienates people for no reason/stagnates the server. I recently started playing on Artyom like a month ago and I was never treated like an outsider (I also didn't antagonize people for no reason so that probably helped) and got to know people IC and have IC friends now like it should be in a fucking RP centric game. Even the so called science wing metafriend group has no issue killing eachother when one of them gets traitor, at least from my observation.

Also random name is dumb because I don't want to act like every round is a new tabletop campaign where I have to define a character and introduce myself to people. Being forced to change characters every month or two would be neat, but theres no way to really enforce that so whatever.

Posted: **Fri Jul 04, 2014 6:23 am**

An0n3 wrote:Fatbeaver was/is an admin from ancient days of yore. I think he predates everyone on adminbus except for SoS and Deuryn at this point. It's kinda nostalgic to see him logging in again.

HerpA, XSI and I all predate him. Deuryn does not, if memory serves.

/tg/Station 13

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