The over reliance on miners

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Re: The over reliance on miners

Postby letshavecake » Tue Nov 22, 2016 1:49 pm #229013

Kraso wrote:
Super Aggro Crag wrote:Why don't we just remove lavaland and make kor buy his own surver to run Lavaland Station that's nothing but lava, land, and dying to computer enemies. Bring asteroid back 2017

Yes please, mining is about digging rocks, not fucking off to some fuckoff planet to dress yourself in shiny drake armour 5 minutes into the round doing fuckall for the station.

Just switch the mining compound with the gulag
Then everyone will be happy, and nobody will be having the wrong kind of fun, and not a single miner will ever complain about it



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Re: The over reliance on miners

Postby Arianya » Tue Nov 22, 2016 2:45 pm #229015

Kraso wrote:
Super Aggro Crag wrote:Why don't we just remove lavaland and make kor buy his own surver to run Lavaland Station that's nothing but lava, land, and dying to computer enemies. Bring asteroid back 2017

Yes please, mining is about digging rocks, not fucking off to some fuckoff planet to dress yourself in shiny drake armour 5 minutes into the round doing fuckall for the station.

Mining just being about digging rocks is dreadfully boring though. If you take away *all* positive aspects to doing the job then you'll just end up with maybe one person doing it a round, as opposed to the fairly regular 3 people, and even then that one person might just fuck off to build a asteroid base/go braindead/get gibbed as opposed to funneling stuff to R&D.

I do like the idea of integrating the materials into the mob hunting to some degree. Will have a further think on it and throw a Ideas thread up.
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Re: The over reliance on miners

Postby Saegrimr » Tue Nov 22, 2016 2:48 pm #229017

Arianya wrote:I do like the idea of integrating the materials into the mob hunting to some degree. Will have a further think on it and throw a Ideas thread up.


Someone mentioned turning lavaland dragons and shit into sci-fi mechanical mobs, robots and shit.

I could totally see turning it from a fantasyland into sci-fi killing robots to salvage their weird unique technology and dragging that back to R&D to throw in an analyzer instead of just shoving minerals into it.
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Re: The over reliance on miners

Postby Aloraydrel » Tue Nov 22, 2016 2:57 pm #229018

I miss the days when mining asked for a ripley

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Re: The over reliance on miners

Postby Wyzack » Tue Nov 22, 2016 3:00 pm #229020

Buff mechs when?
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Re: The over reliance on miners

Postby Aloraydrel » Tue Nov 22, 2016 3:07 pm #229021

Soon.

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Re: The over reliance on miners

Postby D&B » Tue Nov 22, 2016 3:16 pm #229026

Why not make it so the gateway takes you to the old asteroid map.
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Re: The over reliance on miners

Postby MimicFaux » Tue Nov 22, 2016 3:39 pm #229028

Kor wrote:Maybe miners should get science as a channel on their radio so miners know when scientists are actually doing RD, and scientists are in the loop when all the miners are dying on the radio.

I think this is the best answer in so far. Miners already have a unique headset, and they wouldn't be the first sub-department to tap into the science channel (Looking at you, geneticists). Communication, I think is the best thing that can address all of the immediate problems. Miners can call out to science for the Pico-tier upgrades before that first shipment to maximize their initial haul (and arguably, sometimes the last), and science can listen to the wails of the dead and dying to know when to ring up the HoP for mining access. Everybody wins.
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Re: The over reliance on miners

Postby firecage » Tue Nov 22, 2016 4:52 pm #229036

Personally, this isn't even a lavaland issue though, and this is also the fault of scientists.

Many rounds where I played miner, both on the Mining Asteroid and on Lavaland, well...

1. Sometimes fucktards calls the shuttle as early as possible, thus making mining that round basically useless. Though at times they have a valid reason, like murderboners on low-medium pop or some assfag releasing the singularity within minutes of roundstart, both making mining for minerals basically useless.

2. Many times where I mined and went to science with the minerals, guess what? NO ONE WAS FUCKING DOING R&D, even though there were a lot of scientists. Sometimes I would then get access/break in to do R&D myself, but guess what happens then? Then one of the fucking scientists who decided to not do R&D, dunks you and loots you because you are in there.

3. Some rounds types just makes it useless to even bother with mining for minerals. These round types includes Nuke, Cult(and Ratvar cult), Gangs, and Rev. And as I mentioned in point 1, murderboners during DA/Traitor/Ling rounds also makes mining for minerals a moot point unless it is a high pop round. Wizard rounds are often also useless for mining minerals, since normally either most people die, the shuttle gets called early, or the round ends quickly due to the wizard dying. Blob is....ehhh. Science requires minerals, but as soon as the blob dies, well....

4. FUCKING SINGULARITY AND TESLA. Do we really need fucking engines which kills everyone when they escape, which can be bloody minutes into the start of the round. Can't we just re-add a plasma fire engine, make an engine which merely blows up all of engineering if it goes funky, or things like that.

In short, no, phat loot and monster hunting and such only plays a small role. Holy fuck, I quit playing miner largely because it is almost always a waste of time to mine.
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Re: The over reliance on miners

Postby onleavedontatme » Tue Nov 22, 2016 5:16 pm #229042

Super Aggro Crag wrote:Why don't we just remove lavaland and make kor buy his own surver to run Lavaland Station that's nothing but lava, land, and dying to computer enemies. Bring asteroid back 2017


A) I've tried to remove lavaland several times and coderbus won't let me

B) It's been the most popular job for almost a year now, why would you remove the most popular civilian work on the server?

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Re: The over reliance on miners

Postby Saegrimr » Tue Nov 22, 2016 5:17 pm #229043

firecage wrote:Do we really need fucking engines which kills everyone when they escape, which can be bloody minutes into the start of the round.

Yes, fuck off.
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Re: The over reliance on miners

Postby onleavedontatme » Tue Nov 22, 2016 5:19 pm #229045

Saegrimr wrote:
Arianya wrote:I do like the idea of integrating the materials into the mob hunting to some degree. Will have a further think on it and throw a Ideas thread up.


Someone mentioned turning lavaland dragons and shit into sci-fi mechanical mobs, robots and shit.

I could totally see turning it from a fantasyland into sci-fi killing robots to salvage their weird unique technology and dragging that back to R&D to throw in an analyzer instead of just shoving minerals into it.


I've mentioned that several times, but there is nobody who is going to actually do the work to resprite the whole thing.

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Re: The over reliance on miners

Postby Saegrimr » Tue Nov 22, 2016 5:19 pm #229046

Kor wrote:
Saegrimr wrote:
Arianya wrote:I do like the idea of integrating the materials into the mob hunting to some degree. Will have a further think on it and throw a Ideas thread up.


Someone mentioned turning lavaland dragons and shit into sci-fi mechanical mobs, robots and shit.

I could totally see turning it from a fantasyland into sci-fi killing robots to salvage their weird unique technology and dragging that back to R&D to throw in an analyzer instead of just shoving minerals into it.


I've mentioned that several times, but there is nobody who is going to actually do the work to resprite the whole thing.


Is it really just sprites?

I might have to take a stab at that.
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Re: The over reliance on miners

Postby Wyzack » Tue Nov 22, 2016 5:28 pm #229049

I have been meaning to learn to use GIMP. Maybe if i do a bunch of shitty robots people will get motivated to make better ones
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Re: The over reliance on miners

Postby onleavedontatme » Tue Nov 22, 2016 5:33 pm #229051

You'd have to resprite

Bubblegum (3 directions, currently animated)

Bubblegum's loot (4 items)

Drake (3 directions + dead sprite)

Drake's loot (~4 items?)

Colossus

Legion

(And his loot)

The boss targeting icon

Watcher (3 directions, dead sprite)

Goliath (3 directions, dead sprite, animated tentacles)

legion (3 directions, 3 directions for attack skull, the organ it drops with both used and unused states)

Bone spears, bone axes, bone knives, goliath boats, oars, bone armour, bone helmet, sinew cuffs, etc, most of which have 4 sprites total each (3 onmob sprites + the item sprite)

Tendril Nest

Ash Walker Egg/Nest

Necro chest

~20 items inside the chest that need retheming or respriting

And if you're replacing the terrain -

The floors have 13 icon states, the lava and chasms have weird hacked up sprites that you need 16-32 little squares each for or something

There are also two dozen ruins currently, and you'd need to remap a good portion of them to be more sci-fi themed. Most of these ruins have at least one special item that would need retheming/redoing/respriting.

You'd obviously need to redo the names and text for everything above as well, and probably some of the code as well. And I probably forgot stuff.


I have been meaning to learn to use GIMP. Maybe if i do a bunch of shitty robots people will get motivated to make better ones


And finally, this is obviously subjective, but it'd be nice if we didn't replace something that's cohesively themed and I think pretty (by ss13 standards) with coder sprites just for the sake of doing so.

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Re: The over reliance on miners

Postby Kraso » Tue Nov 22, 2016 5:36 pm #229054

Arianya wrote:
Kraso wrote:
Super Aggro Crag wrote:Why don't we just remove lavaland and make kor buy his own surver to run Lavaland Station that's nothing but lava, land, and dying to computer enemies. Bring asteroid back 2017

Yes please, mining is about digging rocks, not fucking off to some fuckoff planet to dress yourself in shiny drake armour 5 minutes into the round doing fuckall for the station.

Mining just being about digging rocks is dreadfully boring though. If you take away *all* positive aspects to doing the job then you'll just end up with maybe one person doing it a round, as opposed to the fairly regular 3 people, and even then that one person might just fuck off to build a asteroid base/go braindead/get gibbed as opposed to funneling stuff to R&D.

I do like the idea of integrating the materials into the mob hunting to some degree. Will have a further think on it and throw a Ideas thread up.

If all it takes to get the powergaming braindead morons away from mining is to return to 2011 mining, so be it.
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Re: The over reliance on miners

Postby onleavedontatme » Tue Nov 22, 2016 5:42 pm #229055

Kraso wrote:Lets throw out the most popular job in the history of /tg/ stat tracking because I came back after a few years and the game was different and people are having fun the wrong way

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Re: The over reliance on miners

Postby Kraso » Tue Nov 22, 2016 5:46 pm #229056

Kor wrote:
Kraso wrote:Lets throw out the most popular job in the history of /tg/ stat tracking because I came back after a few years and the game was different and people are having fun the wrong way

it's almost like........ mining is meant to dig for PLASMA and not be monster hunters..... you know, the main reason SS13 exists........

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Re: The over reliance on miners

Postby Saegrimr » Tue Nov 22, 2016 5:54 pm #229057

Kraso forgets basilisk rushing back on asteroid mining was the most reliable way to get diamonds because holy fuck that ore distribution.
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Re: The over reliance on miners

Postby onleavedontatme » Tue Nov 22, 2016 5:55 pm #229058

From mid october to mid november-

In the last 30 days (720 hours), the server has been up for: Uptime (hrs): 446

In the last 30 days the following minerals were mined: /obj/item/weapon/ore/plasma 66342

148 sheets of plasma per hour




Now compare to the month before lavaland was "released"

Uptime (hrs): 1345

/obj/item/weapon/ore/plasma 85372

63 sheets of plasma per hour


You can break it down by rounds played or player hours or whatever you want as well, more shit is getting mined because the miner job doubled in popularity.

So as far as "the main reason ss13 exists," lavaland is getting players to do that more than twice as well as asteroid.

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Re: The over reliance on miners

Postby Kraso » Tue Nov 22, 2016 5:56 pm #229059

How many of that goes into the ORM instead of just thrown away like a wet paper towel while the miners dig up an arena to fight the megafauna.
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Re: The over reliance on miners

Postby onleavedontatme » Tue Nov 22, 2016 6:02 pm #229060

There are no stats on the ORM in either month.

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Re: The over reliance on miners

Postby Arianya » Tue Nov 22, 2016 7:35 pm #229073

Kraso wrote:How many of that goes into the ORM instead of just thrown away like a wet paper towel while the miners dig up an arena to fight the megafauna.


I've literally never seen anyone "throw away" ore other then the very very common metal because its worth shit for points and you get it incidentally. You can't just keep shifting the goalposts in hope of getting a "gotcha!" that proves lavalands is bad and wrong and anti-ss13
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Re: The over reliance on miners

Postby MrAlphonzo » Tue Nov 22, 2016 8:37 pm #229084

Saegrimr wrote:
firecage wrote:Do we really need fucking engines which kills everyone when they escape, which can be bloody minutes into the start of the round.

Yes, fuck off.


The solution to the engine getting loose every round is simple.

Make it not the easiest god damn thing to do in the entire fucking game.
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Re: The over reliance on miners

Postby Alipheese » Tue Nov 22, 2016 9:43 pm #229098

MimicFaux wrote:
Kor wrote:Maybe miners should get science as a channel on their radio so miners know when scientists are actually doing RD, and scientists are in the loop when all the miners are dying on the radio.

I think this is the best answer in so far. Miners already have a unique headset, and they wouldn't be the first sub-department to tap into the science channel (Looking at you, geneticists). Communication, I think is the best thing that can address all of the immediate problems. Miners can call out to science for the Pico-tier upgrades before that first shipment to maximize their initial haul (and arguably, sometimes the last), and science can listen to the wails of the dead and dying to know when to ring up the HoP for mining access. Everybody wins.
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Re: The over reliance on miners

Postby onleavedontatme » Tue Nov 22, 2016 11:54 pm #229126

https://github.com/tgstation/tgstation/pull/21683

Opened this last night, forgot to link it here

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Re: The over reliance on miners

Postby oranges » Wed Nov 23, 2016 2:44 am #229162

Lets not discount the point Kraso has even if he's covering it in autism coated butter, but mining and monster hunting are different tasks and the tension will continue exist until they're separated.

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Re: The over reliance on miners

Postby imblyings » Wed Nov 23, 2016 3:46 am #229170

Mining shouldn't be separated on account of asshurt by scientists.

Complaints of miners going to explore or focus on getting loot are funny when scientists can choose from two more departments to play instead of rnd and rnd/xenobio are essentially on station methods of getting good loot. It just so happens that mining is a more fun and less rote loot grind.
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Re: The over reliance on miners

Postby MrAlphonzo » Wed Nov 23, 2016 4:22 am #229176

Maybe, if miners/explorers are added, and like Kor said, there are mostly explorers, they can be given extra access by default if there aren't enough miners. To handle both the mining, and the megafauna hunting. Or, maybe a sub-head of staff (Like the QM) to oversee the miners, and yell at them when they shirk their jobs, instead of some faggot that never leaves the bridge just yelling at them over comms. Lets be honest, any HoP barely interacts with the miners, if at all, and the Captain is too busy being murdered by some tator or strangling an engineer during their most recent fuck-up, to secure the disk and go off station.
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Re: The over reliance on miners

Postby onleavedontatme » Wed Nov 23, 2016 7:35 am #229199

oranges wrote:Lets not discount the point Kraso has even if he's covering it in autism coated butter, but mining and monster hunting are different tasks and the tension will continue exist until they're separated.


Mining alone is not a fleshed out enough system to warrant 50 minutes of game time.

The old mining cycle was

-Rush the high yield area
-report back to RD within 15 minutes
-They give you tools to mine better which are pointless because you just gave them enough minerals for the whole round
-Jump out an airlock to space explore or go afk

Yes of course there is going to be "tension" from scientists if mining is sometimes a thing that gets interrupted rather than a given. They want an easy and garaunteed flow of minerals to build their mechs and such every round.

And yeah what Ausops said. Science already has three unrelated jobs to pick from. We should be giving every civillian job more things to do, not less.

Finally: People like Kraso would not be happy with sepearation, the next step once mining is carved up into multiple jobs is "why do we have a hunter job? It's pointless and it means too many job slots off station". Just cut to the chase ans revert to asteroid at that point.

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Re: The over reliance on miners

Postby calzilla1 » Wed Nov 23, 2016 7:41 am #229202

I still just say up the ore per rock... wall
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Re: The over reliance on miners

Postby onleavedontatme » Wed Nov 23, 2016 7:43 am #229203

That'd be the equivalent of removing mining from the game.

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Re: The over reliance on miners

Postby Alipheese » Wed Nov 23, 2016 7:47 am #229205

Why do we have these big dumb arguments over 1 salty person?
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Re: The over reliance on miners

Postby onleavedontatme » Wed Nov 23, 2016 7:51 am #229207

People don't like PvE and people don't like dragons so we're going to keep having these arguments until mining is gutted and irrelevant as a job again or until someone resprites the whole thing so less people are triggered by it.

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Re: The over reliance on miners

Postby oranges » Wed Nov 23, 2016 9:32 am #229212

Who cares what Kraso wants, I'm the boss of this gym

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Re: The over reliance on miners

Postby Kel-the-Oblivious » Wed Nov 23, 2016 10:46 am #229229

Expand the number of miners to six. You want more exposure to lavaland? Double the population count. See how often it gets filled. If it's always six, expand it some more.

Going to throw my old fag towel into the ring and tell you mining has always been the PvE section of the game. Fighting monsters, mining diamonds, getting loot, and giving the station their split of the treasure so you can get shinier toys to fight bigger monsters and find more treasure. The items found in Lavaland serve one of three purposes: Awesome mining gear if used properly or with a little creativity, straight up traitor items, only useful if you want to cause some havoc, or absolutely useless crap. Looking at you SORD.

People are getting uppity about not being included because it's actually FUN now. It used to be: Find an abandoned crate. Ignore the mind game, have a goliath smash it. Hope you get good loot, not a corgi costume. Explore for treasure rooms, hope you find the wizard room with a spell book, not a replica katana or a mythril coin. Eventually leave mining entirely because your Hyper KA makes mining a breeze, and you've drowned everyone with so many minerals you get bored and make yourself a star of Gygaxes, a lance of Durands, and have a Clanner/IS brawl on the mining asteroid.

It was boring and tedious and the only reason people did it is because no one could deny their claim on some sweet sweet RnD loot. You tell a miner they can't have their toys? That's how you get a pick axe to the face. Now, it's not just a tedious mining job, it's an away mission style place, full of actual useful hidden treasure rooms, massive creatures to battle, environmental hazards to what out for, and the best non-antag loot on the map. After learning all the ins and outs of Lavaland, I absolutely fucking love it.

And now Billy Greytide is getting pissy because miners not sharing their toys. I look back on the old away mission system, and I shudder in horror if mining as it stood became public access. With the old away missions, it was first come first serve the moment the calibration was done. If it was Snowdin you could end up with Demon Hearted Fireball Slinging Katana wielding greyshirts within 15 minutes of the game if they memorized the routine. And it absolutely ruined rounds. Either huge swaths of the crew would die and never be revived or some asshole would acquire enough loot to wreck as much havoc as they wanted with no one being able to stop them, antag or otherwise.

I'd love to see Mining expanded into a whole department unto itself. Build off the awesome framework that Lavaland has laid out with this mystical dead civilization warzone for demonic forces vibe. Other servers have some form of archeology, I don't see why we could make our own using the framework we have. Tendril loot, the sin shuttles, ash walkers, mega corpses and loot... A ton of stuff could be expanded on and used to make Lavaland into more than a three person PvE game inside the 2d spessman simulator.
The master splicer, the bitch queen of mining, and some crazy ligger peddling you medicinal marijuana.

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Re: The over reliance on miners

Postby Kraso » Wed Nov 23, 2016 1:52 pm #229260

oranges wrote:Who cares what Kraso wants, I'm the boss of this gym

How about you get out of that, uh, jabroni outfit.
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Re: The over reliance on miners

Postby Jembo » Wed Nov 23, 2016 2:16 pm #229264

The issue with mining is that it gets boring fast, outside of killing bosses for semi useful gear. Do you really need to farm up 20 diamonds? Or can you get away with 3 and some plasma so you can upgrade your PKA enough to easily kill whatever. People who mine a lot seem to just want to get cool stuff to show off on station, or bragging rights. Who can blame them anyway? Mining is an unforgiving place where just one misstep means you're out of the round for sometimes over an hour. I mean everything there is trying to kill you and more often than not take you out of the round permanently. Or the shuttle gets called before you can even finish getting enough ore to matter to science, or maybe the scientists are all busy jerking each other off in xenobio.

A cool way to get miners to bring ore back throughout the round would be to more fun options to the mining vendor. I think it'd be cool if they could buy different chests that would contain random but fun items for varying point values. Let's say an Iron chest contains random booze, playing card, maybe some dank. Plasma chest would contain random toys, or some food. Uranium chest would have something useful for science, rare hats, and clothing. Diamond chest would have top tier research items, unique clothing/armour, pets, maybe special mining items to make the job easier. I think it'd be a cool way to add a better version of the crusher, or resonator. Or just a resprited version that looks cool.

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Re: The over reliance on miners

Postby onleavedontatme » Wed Nov 23, 2016 8:50 pm #229342

Kel-the-Oblivious wrote: A ton of stuff could be expanded on and used to make Lavaland into more than a three person PvE game inside the 2d spessman simulator.


Lavaland as it stands now was only really meant to be the start, and a proof of concept that PvE and a hostile environment would be fun/provide incentive for people to work together at their jobs instead of griff lottery, but 9 months of constant REEEEEEEEEEing from people who hate lavaland has killed my desire to do that.

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Re: The over reliance on miners

Postby D&B » Wed Nov 23, 2016 8:53 pm #229343

Everyone knows that using the game as a chat box is the summit and climax of enjoying the game and that if you don't like it then you are having fun in the wrong way
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[20:26:02]ADMIN: PM: [censored admin]->[censored]: Welp. It was just a prank bro isn't a very good excuse when it comes to unprovoked nonantag murder, but since this is your first time doing it and you seem to understand the problem instead of a bannu I'm just going to leave you with a warning. Please PLEASE don't do this again in the future, as funny as crackhead broken bottle memes can be. Alrighty? Do you have any input on this?
[20:26:39]ADMIN: PM: [censored]->[censored admin]: Alright, no problem. I have some input. Fuck my boy pussy.
[20:27:06]ADMIN: PM: [censored admin]->[censored]: Okay then. Have fun.
[20:31:29]ADMIN: PM: [censored admin]->[censored]: Excuse me?

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Re: The over reliance on miners

Postby Jembo » Wed Nov 23, 2016 9:28 pm #229351

Kor wrote:Lavaland as it stands now was only really meant to be the start, and a proof of concept that PvE and a hostile environment would be fun/provide incentive for people to work together at their jobs instead of griff lottery, but 9 months of constant REEEEEEEEEEing from people who hate lavaland has killed my desire to do that.


It's a shame because the vocal minority win. The people who are enjoying lava land, or are miners every single possible shift aren't gonna go online and say we want more. But the few who hate everything / anything different or fun will bitch about it non stop making it look like the majority of players dislike mining which isn't the case. And if mining gets reverted then we'll just see them bitch about something else, as that is what most of these people do.

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Re: The over reliance on miners

Postby letshavecake » Wed Nov 23, 2016 9:49 pm #229363

Kor wrote:Lavaland as it stands now was only really meant to be the start, and a proof of concept that PvE and a hostile environment would be fun/provide incentive for people to work together at their jobs instead of griff lottery, but 9 months of constant REEEEEEEEEEing from people who hate lavaland has killed my desire to do that.

Why does it feel like half the features in the game are like that

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Re: The over reliance on miners

Postby Kel-the-Oblivious » Thu Nov 24, 2016 12:10 am #229393

Kor wrote:
Lavaland as it stands now was only really meant to be the start, and a proof of concept that PvE and a hostile environment would be fun/provide incentive for people to work together at their jobs instead of griff lottery, but 9 months of constant REEEEEEEEEEing from people who hate lavaland has killed my desire to do that.



Gonna tell you this now Kor, since I started playing again after my hiatus, my job selection screen is: Shaft Miner, High. Allow assistant if role is full

I only fucking play lavaland, because it's !!FUN!! in all the ways I love. Sure, let assholes REEE REEE REEE all they want about it. Every single department in this game has the vocal little shits who BADWRONGFUN all over the station and would see it watered down into an over glorified hugbox where you are automatically in the cloning database at the start, auto cloning is online, and Antags are given very precise rules for what they can and can not do. There is aplace for people like this. It's called baystation.
The master splicer, the bitch queen of mining, and some crazy ligger peddling you medicinal marijuana.

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Re: The over reliance on miners

Postby Kel-the-Oblivious » Thu Nov 24, 2016 12:19 am #229394

Kor wrote:
Lavaland as it stands now was only really meant to be the start, and a proof of concept that PvE and a hostile environment would be fun/provide incentive for people to work together at their jobs instead of griff lottery, but 9 months of constant REEEEEEEEEEing from people who hate lavaland has killed my desire to do that.



Gonna tell you this now Kor, since I started playing again after my hiatus, my job selection screen is: Shaft Miner, High. Allow assistant if role is full

I only fucking play lavaland, because it's !!FUN!! in all the ways I love. Sure, let assholes REEE REEE REEE all they want about it. Every single department in this game has the vocal little shits who BADWRONGFUN all over the station and would see it watered down into an over glorified safe space to be where you are automatically in the cloning database at the start, auto cloning is online, and Antags are given very precise rules for what they can and can not do. There is aplace for people like this. It's called baystation.[/quote]
The master splicer, the bitch queen of mining, and some crazy ligger peddling you medicinal marijuana.

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Re: The over reliance on miners

Postby John_Oxford » Thu Nov 24, 2016 12:31 am #229397

This is so ungodly simple.

Roundstart fulton beacon linked to a pack that spawns in the miners backpack. Instead of a normal bag or pack its a bluespace mining satchel that can't be removed.

It starts linked to the beacon. Miners run ore through the machine that they have (that never gets used) then take the processed materials, put them on the floor, use the bluespace ore bag on them. Fulton them. Now science has all the ore they just collected and mining now has all of the points they just collected.

(just got the gumption to go and try to optimize mining station a little bit (before the mining sector thing gets merged or attempted to be merged, and in the case that its ever reverted)

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Re: The over reliance on miners

Postby Kel-the-Oblivious » Thu Nov 24, 2016 2:22 am #229422

John_Oxford wrote:This is so ungodly simple.

Roundstart fulton beacon linked to a pack that spawns in the miners backpack. Instead of a normal bag or pack its a bluespace mining satchel that can't be removed.

It starts linked to the beacon. Miners run ore through the machine that they have (that never gets used) then take the processed materials, put them on the floor, use the bluespace ore bag on them. Fulton them. Now science has all the ore they just collected and mining now has all of the points they just collected.

(just got the gumption to go and try to optimize mining station a little bit (before the mining sector thing gets merged or attempted to be merged, and in the case that its ever reverted)

stand by.



So... Remove the last two steps of the mining mombo. Last one, actually since this seems to work with the less efficient smelter, not the ORM. All you are doing is making it so miners don't need to return to station for anything but upgrades.
The master splicer, the bitch queen of mining, and some crazy ligger peddling you medicinal marijuana.

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Re: The over reliance on miners

Postby lumipharon » Thu Nov 24, 2016 4:45 am #229441

So I haven't played for ages and shit, but what about this?

All the monster hunter IX is gated in some way (either by gear check or SCIENCE device that opens a space anus from basic mining area to monster hunter IX zone) behind some level of research.
Then miners have a reason to bring minerals back to R&D, then proceed to pickaxe all the scientists to death because they're busy making bombs instead of R&D.

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Re: The over reliance on miners

Postby Kel-the-Oblivious » Thu Nov 24, 2016 4:56 am #229442

lumipharon wrote:So I haven't played for ages and shit, but what about this?

All the monster hunter IX is gated in some way (either by gear check or SCIENCE device that opens a space anus from basic mining area to monster hunter IX zone) behind some level of research.
Then miners have a reason to bring minerals back to R&D, then proceed to pickaxe all the scientists to death because they're busy making bombs instead of R&D.


Any miner worth their bluespace shelters KNOWS to fulfill a heady mineral quota before heading out into the wilds to hunt megas. Only a handful of the most powergaming miners try to take on megas without proper equipment and prep work. The rest of us work to fulfill our quotas before heading off into the lavaland to go hunting because.... Searching and hunting is far, far easier with a little help from RnD, and getting the cloning pod up and auto processing.

Making yet ANOTHER Z-level seems unneeded, because you're going to end up with the exact same argument going on over THAT zone, instead of lavaland.
The master splicer, the bitch queen of mining, and some crazy ligger peddling you medicinal marijuana.

Super Aggro Crag wrote:Kel is a genuine Cool Oldfag

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Re: The over reliance on miners

Postby onleavedontatme » Thu Nov 24, 2016 5:00 am #229443

I usually see the few miners who are capable of killing the bosses with starting gear grab minerals first as a courtesy anyway.

I think new people dying interrupts the mineral flow much more than anyone purposefully blowing off their job.

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Re: The over reliance on miners

Postby Kel-the-Oblivious » Thu Nov 24, 2016 5:12 am #229445

One set up I saw was a zoned spawning area for various things. Instead of "Hey, here's a Bubblegum RIGHT OUTSIDE your suit storage" it would be "Don't go northwest... That is where death is. Stay close to base, it's safer here."

3|x|x|x
2|3|x|x
1|2|3|x
B|1|2|3

Was the lay out I was given. Divide the map into sectors, where the danger level is well know. B is the base, obviously.1 is "safe" space, but low rewards. No structures, no megas, no tendrils, just local fauna and some basic minerals. You might get lucky and find a diamond node or two out here. 2 is the Established Danger zone. Tendrils pawn in here, megas might roam in here, but only rarely, and you may find some interesting structure loot. 3 is the Danger Zone. Megas and tendrils abound in here, as do some of the more exotic structures, like Sin Ships or Clown Ruin. X is the XTREME MINING ZONE, full of the worst possible things imaginable for miners to face, but also over loaded with treasure and loot for those capable of surviving out there.
The master splicer, the bitch queen of mining, and some crazy ligger peddling you medicinal marijuana.

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