Sprite changes/Perspective

[NikNakFlak]

I can't stand this direction that the art style is being pushed. I'd make this topic in spriting, but then nobody would see it. I will never understand the push towards 3/4 perspective. I think it looks bad, the computers just look fat, the lockers don't look they are standing up, it just looks like they have a fat flat top. If people want the 3/4 art style, I'm not sure why they don't just go to goon where it's already a thing because I like the way /tg/ looks here. I like the shittyness of the sprites that come from any number of people. The cartoonish style of how it looks is near and dear to my heart and all these changes to ugly ass different perspectives is awful. Our mobs aren't even top down for god's sake and they are running around on tile based floors, fuck your perspective. The game is never ever going to have uniform perspective. Even goon where almost all the sprites are 3/4 still have the flat mobs we have. You are going to have literally a 3/4 world with the equivalence of people scooting around on their backs. I mean, we already kinda have that, but pushing 3/4th perspective isn't going to help that, it's going to just ruin the game and make it worse.

Look at it.

Spoiler:

When I asked for an example of good 3/4 perspective sprites, I was linked with some final fantasy or whatever game that was extremely zoomed out and was given "see, it looks good." Well no shit, there's a difference between open source volunteer work with tile based movement and flat mob sprites and fucking professional level made from the ground up but also small as fuck sprites in that perspective.

Sometimes deemed as one of the shittiest sprites we had is the toolbox sprite that was recently replaced. It used to look like this: and it was one of the most iconic sprites in the entire game to me. Assistants beating each other up with the shitty blue toolbox sprite. The bloody shit blue toolbox left in departures with the madhouse right before the shuttle arrived.

It now looks like this: and I won't lie, it looks good, but this is one of the few cases where I would like my shitty sprite back because it means more and bring back more nostalgia to me than this new thing. Even our forum emoticon is still the old sprite

Edit: Didn't know this existed. Heavily related: https://tgstation13.org/phpBB/viewtopic.php?f=10&t=9630

I had a conversation in coderbus and a little bit in OOC but no big topic exists so here we are. Thoughts, feedback, criticisms, arguments, etc.

[captain sawrge]

they look better than t he old ones

[danno]

TL;DR
There was already a thread for this

[NikNakFlak]

Toolboxes vs big picture

[XDTM]

I really don't like arguments based on nostalgia; if the sprite is better use the better sprite and get new fun memories with them. Preferring shittier sprites because our style is "shitty sprites" means that we should try to change the style, not conform to it.

As for the sprites themselves:
The lockers do need at least a larger top, right now they seem way too thin. Consoles are a bit jarring when put aside the modular console, but i think it looks fine, although there needs to be a clearer distinction between monitor and keyboard as right now they sort of look like touchscreens (maybe intended?).

[captain sawrge]

This whole nostalgia drama is insulting to the spriters putting in a lot of work and then not even having their work considered because "muh legacy"
The argument is unironically "we don't like change"
The impotent fucking whining because people genuinely want bad sprites over improved ones makes me incredibly angry. It spits on the work of the people doing what they can improve the game for such a petty fucking reason.

[AnonymousNow]

I don't get why these improvements to detailing and shading can't include our current perspective. Putting them straight on is jarring, and gives the impression that we're looking at things that could be decals lying down on the floor.

[cedarbridge]

This whole nostalgia drama is insulting to the spriters putting in a lot of work and then not even having their work considered because "muh legacy"
The argument is unironically "we don't like change"
The impotent fucking whining because people genuinely want bad sprites over improved ones makes me incredibly angry. It spits on the work of the people doing what they can improve the game for such a petty fucking reason.

See, I can understand wanting to have your work respected based on the work put in, but I don't like the idea that "I worked on this really hard so everyone just has to like it or shut up." We've had this issue crop up multiple times in the past. The server should not be obligated to accept a change simply because the person who made it spent a lot of time making the unwanted thing. If you're insulted by somebody telling you that they don't want the new thing you made, then you're being too precious with the things you're making. If you feel insulted or invalidated because people cannot or do not want to be obligated to accept your product, there's a problem with the product. If its actually better or actually good then it wouldn't be rejected and you wouldn't have to try to obligate anyone to accept your product.

[John_Oxford]

did we literally not vote against having the new sprites

perfect example of coders (kor) saying "I DO WHAT I WANT MUH ABSOLUTE SEPERATION"

that's going to be put to a stop soon though.

[MisterPerson]

Some people just need to quit being grognards.

Sure if a sprite isn't better looking, subjectively or objectively speaking, sure, reject it. But if it's a sprite you admit is better, why the fuck would we not use that? It looks better and still fits the gameplay requirements of being identifiable and unique.

[AnonymousNow]

~

I can't admit that these new sprites are better, because whilst they have improvements, they also have aspects which are worse than the original sprites we used.

In terms of being identifiable, if I didn't know what the book scanner was and I saw this new sprite, I'd probably think that it was some sort of handheld pad. That's a readability problem.

[calzilla1]

When the game looks like goon light (tm) and people leave for a less retarded looking and a more player caring server, I'm gonna be laaaaaughin'

[Screemonster]

Those new consoles look terrible. The keyboard doesn't "pop" the way the first one does.

On the old sprite you could at least tell that the keyboard is supposed to be lying horizontal and the screen is vertical. These new ones look like the keyboard is a flat panel of lights directly under the screen. Do spessmen in the future operate their computers by kinect or something?

It looks like lego duplo furniture that's just a decal of a computer printed onto the side of a brick.

edit:

See, I can understand wanting to have your work respected based on the work put in, but I don't like the idea that "I worked on this really hard so everyone just has to like it or shut up."

Agree 100%, one time I had a stomach infection and spent 2 hours straight on the toilet but that doesn't mean I produced anything in that time other than shit, time doesn't directly translate to quality. Hell, some of the best artists I've seen surprise me with how quickly they can work.
I'll happily offer feedback, but if they're going to react to feedback by saying "well fuck your opinions, I worked hard on this so you're getting it" then don't be surprised if you piss people off.

[Owegno]

Sure if a sprite isn't better looking, subjectively or objectively speaking

How can something be objectively better or worse looking? Seriously, is there some scientific metric for art uninfluenced by personal feelings? It is an OBJECTIVE fact that the Battle of Kiev (1941) was a German Victory; it is a SUBJECTIVE opinion that the Germans fighting the Soviets at Kiev cost them so much time they failed to reach Moscow by winter, and thus lost the war. Whether a piece of art looks better or worse next to another piece to someone is based of their personal taste and opinion, please stop using objectively wrong.

Sure if a sprite isn't better looking, subjectively or objectively speaking, sure, reject it. But if it's a sprite you admit is better, why the fuck would we not use that? It looks better and still fits the gameplay requirements of being identifiable and unique.

I personally don't mind the toolbox sprite, my only gripe is I wish it used the old perspective. However I would imagine that some people liked the style of the old sprite and thought it fit the style of the game better, even if they think the new sprite looks nicer.

Also just because something has a more detailed sprite doesn't mean that its perspective can't make it (subjectively) look like ass, and man do those sprites in the picture niknak posted under the spoiler look awful in my opinion.

[Qbopper]

Personally agree with everything in OP, especially about the toolboxes

You can say I hate change, but I gave the new toolboxes a chance, and I just don't think they're as good, even if they do have better shading/colouring

[PKPenguin321]

3/4ths doesn't seem to work very well for a lot of the bigger sprites in a 32/32 grid, the book binder up there that was rejected is a good example. It just looks flat and is hard to discern detail from. I'm okay with a better looking game, but I don't know if 3/4ths is the way to go.

[paprika]

NOSTALGIA IS NOT A LEGITIMATE ARGUMENT AGAINST POSITIVE CHANGE
NOSTALGIA IS NOT A LEGITIMATE ARGUMENT AGAINST POSITIVE CHANGE
NOSTALGIA IS NOT A LEGITIMATE ARGUMENT AGAINST POSITIVE CHANGE
NOSTALGIA IS NOT A LEGITIMATE ARGUMENT AGAINST POSITIVE CHANGE
NOSTALGIA IS NOT A LEGITIMATE ARGUMENT AGAINST POSITIVE CHANGE
NOSTALGIA IS NOT A LEGITIMATE ARGUMENT AGAINST POSITIVE CHANGE
NOSTALGIA IS NOT A LEGITIMATE ARGUMENT AGAINST POSITIVE CHANGE
NOSTALGIA IS NOT A LEGITIMATE ARGUMENT AGAINST POSITIVE CHANGE
NOSTALGIA IS NOT A LEGITIMATE ARGUMENT AGAINST POSITIVE CHANGE

[cedarbridge]

.

Anxiously awaiting the objective standard for "positive change"

[paprika]

[Arianya]

People don't seem to be getting it.

"I don't like the perspective change" - Reasonable criticism that can be actioned

"Its not the old sprite nostalgia" - Not reasonable criticism that can be actioned

[cedarbridge]

People don't seem to be getting it.

"I don't like the perspective change" - Reasonable criticism that can be actioned

"Its not the old sprite nostalgia" - Not reasonable criticism that can be actioned

I believe you'll find the required action, is no action. I know that's hard to fathom that sometimes constant action is not required for improvement and sometimes you can just not change things and arrive at the desired result, but it does happen.

[Arianya]

People don't seem to be getting it.

"I don't like the perspective change" - Reasonable criticism that can be actioned

"Its not the old sprite nostalgia" - Not reasonable criticism that can be actioned

I believe you'll find the required action, is no action. I know that's hard to fathom that sometimes constant action is not required for improvement and sometimes you can just not change things and arrive at the desired result, but it does happen.

If that attitude had been taken with all sprites we'd be sitting around with blobby human sprites with no directionals and two tone object sprites.

Not to mention old-walls.

[cedarbridge]

People don't seem to be getting it.

"I don't like the perspective change" - Reasonable criticism that can be actioned

"Its not the old sprite nostalgia" - Not reasonable criticism that can be actioned

I believe you'll find the required action, is no action. I know that's hard to fathom that sometimes constant action is not required for improvement and sometimes you can just not change things and arrive at the desired result, but it does happen.

If that attitude had been taken with all sprites we'd be sitting around with blobby human sprites with no directionals and two tone object sprites.

Not to mention old-walls.

That's not what I said. I'm telling you that change for change's sake is not evidence of a positive improvement. You complained that "Its not the old sprite we prefer" is not ~actionable~ when it clearly is. You just don't like that the required action is merely inaction. That inaction takes the simple form of "don't change the thing people don't want changed."

[Qbopper]

I think ignoring nostalgia in some vain attempt to make things "objectively better" is just as bad as rejecting actually good changes in favour of nostalgia, though

[captain sawrge]

I think ignoring nostalgia in some vain attempt to make things "objectively better" is just as bad as rejecting actually good changes in favour of nostalgia, though

Why do you think that?

[Arianya]

People don't seem to be getting it.

"I don't like the perspective change" - Reasonable criticism that can be actioned

"Its not the old sprite nostalgia" - Not reasonable criticism that can be actioned

I believe you'll find the required action, is no action. I know that's hard to fathom that sometimes constant action is not required for improvement and sometimes you can just not change things and arrive at the desired result, but it does happen.

If that attitude had been taken with all sprites we'd be sitting around with blobby human sprites with no directionals and two tone object sprites.

Not to mention old-walls.

That's not what I said. I'm telling you that change for change's sake is not evidence of a positive improvement. You complained that "Its not the old sprite we prefer" is not ~actionable~ when it clearly is. You just don't like that the required action is merely inaction. That inaction takes the simple form of "don't change the thing people don't want changed."

If you accept that all sprites are, by nature, imperfect, then they can always be improved upon.

If you can't generate feedback more specific then "don't change it its already perfect" then you don't actually have an issue with the new sprite, you just prefer the old sprite (which is fine)

If the new sprite in the new/old perspective or whatever other changes still set you off for some indefinable reason, you have them nostalgia goggles on son.

[MisterPerson]

I think ignoring nostalgia in some vain attempt to make things "objectively better" is just as bad as rejecting actually good changes in favour of nostalgia, though

Sure, and that's why if it looks worse, you should feel extremely free to say as such. For example I really dislike the boxes because they wind up looking way too thick. I'm not even convinced they should be in 3/4ths to begin with.

That's not what I said. I'm telling you that change for change's sake is not evidence of a positive improvement. You complained that "Its not the old sprite we prefer" is not ~actionable~ when it clearly is. You just don't like that the required action is merely inaction. That inaction takes the simple form of "don't change the thing people don't want changed."

It's not actionable because there's nothing that can be done to fix the complaint, and the complaint is unreasonable at its base. "I want to keep the old sprite forever" is an unreasonable argument and is discarded as such. Afterwards, there's no meat left to the complaint. Just saying you don't like the sprite is fine, but don't be surprised if everyone ignores the complaint.

[cedarbridge]

If you accept that all sprites are, by nature, imperfect, then they can always be improved upon.

If you can't generate feedback more specific then "don't change it its already perfect" then you don't actually have an issue with the new sprite, you just prefer the old sprite (which is fine)

If the new sprite in the new/old perspective or whatever other changes still set you off for some indefinable reason, you have them nostalgia goggles on son.

This is still placing presumption on whatever is new, which is wrong. The change being made should be justified, not presumed. If you can't generate a reason to move to the new sprite over the old more specific than "I want a new one take off the nostalgia goggles" then you don't have an issue with the old sprite, you just like your own.

It's not actionable because there's nothing that can be done to fix the complaint, and the complaint is unreasonable at its base. "I want to keep the old sprite forever" is an unreasonable argument and is discarded as such. Afterwards, there's no meat left to the complaint. Just saying you don't like the sprite is fine, but don't be surprised if everyone ignores the complaint.

This isn't complex. There are two very simple things that fix the complaint. Don't make the complained against change, or revert the unwanted change. This is still springing out of the "spritework and change is sacred" mantra that's been going around for a while. This is also working from a position where changes should simply be merged and reversions are not allowed because we need to just "fix" whatever unwanted thing was added until its too involved to properly remove and we're well past the point of no return. This especially strange with spritework. The playerbase either accepts or rejects the sprite. If there's a specific complaint that would allow the sprite to satisfy the playerbase without reversion, that is acceptable. The problem is, when an unwanted change happens and the players overwhelmingly say "no we don't want this stop, revert" they're told to sit on it and spin. Change for change's sake is a cult.

[Screemonster]

I don't think people are really arguing "don't change them ever" so much as "don't change them to that"

For instance, the sprites under the spoiler in Niknak's post? The computer consoles?
Here's a shitty sketch of what I see in the old sprites versus what I see in the new, shifted to a more isometric perspective:


I won't deny the shading is nicer, but they simply don't look like what they're supposed to be.

[NikNakFlak]

Those are some good shitty sketches dang

[Kel]

theres no way in hell danno is going to be able to resprite the entire game to a 3/4ths perspective and until he does every single thing he changes his going to look super jarring and weird compared to the rest of the game. just give up now and keep everything to its uniform perspective

[Remie Richards]

theres no way in hell danno is going to be able to resprite the entire game to a 3/4ths perspective and until he does every single thing he changes his going to look super jarring and weird compared to the rest of the game. just give up now and keep everything to its uniform perspective

to its uniform perspective

I can't even breathe.

[Kel]

whats so "objectively better" about a 3/4ths perspective anyway can any of you explain this

[Remie Richards]

Too busy laughing.

Like holy hell, these things are subjective, and you can all have your opinions and stuff.
But there is no way in hell what we have now is uniform!

[Screemonster]

whats so "objectively better" about a 3/4ths perspective anyway can any of you explain this

it's actually a fucking pig to get looking right whenever I try anything at that angle, especially at something as small as 32x32 where a single pixel can make a massive difference, there's a reason why so many "3d" ZX Spectrum games used isometric perspectives.

Many of the existing sprites (like the old toolbox, crates, and so on) are drawn using Oblique projection.

[Super Aggro Crag]

We can get fat toolboxes and fat computers but you nazi fucks won't give us back our fatsprites so we know who to shoot mint darts at on sight!

[confused rock]

theres no way in hell danno is going to be able to resprite the entire game to a 3/4ths perspective when people like me can't handle change in any form and act like the game didn't already look like dog shit

[EasX]

We can get fat toolboxes and fat computers but you nazi fucks won't give us back our fatsprites so we know who to shoot mint darts at on sight!

When will these authoritarian pigs finally allow all the blubber to hang out again...

[John_Oxford]

to sum it up

coders and maintainers bitching about how "YOU CANT SAY THAT THATS NOT A REASON YOUR HAMPERING DEVELOPMENT REEE"

when the majority of the population doesn't like new sprites and in no way is it their position to determine what people do and do not like subjectively based on their own opinion of a sprite.

the new sprites are worse than the old sprites in popular opinion, get that through your fucking head

the majority of people don't like new sprites, its not your fucking job to tell us what we do and do not like, its your fucking job to put in what we do like, not bitch about how "OH YOU DON'T KNOW HOW TO DEVELOP YOU ARE HAMPERING PROGRESS KEKE. stop being privileged cunts and fucking revert the sprites

[dannnnnnnnnnnnnno]

to sum it up

coders and maintainers bitching about how "YOU CANT SAY THAT THATS NOT A REASON YOUR HAMPERING DEVELOPMENT REEE"

when the majority of the population doesn't like new sprites and in no way is it their position to determine what people do and do not like subjectively based on their own opinion of a sprite.

the new sprites are worse than the old sprites in popular opinion, get that through your fucking head

the majority of people don't like new sprites, its not your fucking job to tell us what we do and do not like, its your fucking job to put in what we do like, not bitch about how "OH YOU DON'T KNOW HOW TO DEVELOP YOU ARE HAMPERING PROGRESS KEKE. stop being privileged cunts and fucking revert the sprites

Scared?

[captain sawrge]

to sum it up

coders and maintainers bitching about how "YOU CANT SAY THAT THATS NOT A REASON YOUR HAMPERING DEVELOPMENT REEE"

when the majority of the population doesn't like new sprites and in no way is it their position to determine what people do and do not like subjectively based on their own opinion of a sprite.

the new sprites are worse than the old sprites in popular opinion, get that through your fucking head

the majority of people don't like new sprites, its not your fucking job to tell us what we do and do not like, its your fucking job to put in what we do like, not bitch about how "OH YOU DON'T KNOW HOW TO DEVELOP YOU ARE HAMPERING PROGRESS KEKE. stop being privileged cunts and fucking revert the sprites

oxford has lost my vote....

[cedarbridge]

He's not wrong.

[Kel]

strawman

unfortunately for you i actually quite like the redesigned vendors and im on OK terms with the toolboxes - visually the lockers need to be worked on though. i just dont know why we need to scramble the perspective especially when it fucks with the depth perception of the game

[PKPenguin321]

I don't think people are really arguing "don't change them ever" so much as "don't change them to that"

For instance, the sprites under the spoiler in Niknak's post? The computer consoles?
Here's a shitty sketch of what I see in the old sprites versus what I see in the new, shifted to a more isometric perspective:


I won't deny the shading is nicer, but they simply don't look like what they're supposed to be.

Please delete all the posts in this thread except for this one that I've quoted here

[PKPenguin321]

No I think you're right too but that post I quoted there illustrates the issue with 3/4ths the best especially with that sketch

[John_Oxford]

He's not wrong.

vote 4 me and ill throw everything hg has done and worked for towards absolute seperation away within the first 100 days

(i need someone to replace sawfag, he probally wasen't voting for me anyways he's kind of a low energy degenerate)

[MisterPerson]

This isn't complex. There are two very simple things that fix the complaint. Don't make the complained against change, or revert the unwanted change. This is still springing out of the "spritework and change is sacred" mantra that's been going around for a while. This is also working from a position where changes should simply be merged and reversions are not allowed because we need to just "fix" whatever unwanted thing was added until its too involved to properly remove and we're well past the point of no return. This especially strange with spritework. The playerbase either accepts or rejects the sprite. If there's a specific complaint that would allow the sprite to satisfy the playerbase without reversion, that is acceptable. The problem is, when an unwanted change happens and the players overwhelmingly say "no we don't want this stop, revert" they're told to sit on it and spin. Change for change's sake is a cult.

I think you're misunderstanding what position I was arguing against. Which is my fault for making an overly broad statement but whatever.

There are two positions I find ridiculous. The first, the one that really bothers me the most and the reason I spoke up in the first place, was the one made by NikNak in the OP where he specifically says the new sprite is better but wants the old shittier one because of nostalgia. This argument is retarded at its base and obviously should be discarded. The second stupid argument is the one we're talking about right now, the empty complaint. Most complainers, no matter where they're complaining, are by definition a vocal minority. I would absolutely love to help the complainers because even a vocal minority of one is still one real person whose seriously pissed off. However, since they didn't specify what the problem was and not accepting the sprite is unacceptable since the new sprite would probably be liked by the silent majority, there's absolutely nothing that can be done to resolve the complaint.

Obviously that argument doesn't apply if the majority would not like the new sprite. This turns out to be very hard to prove in practice. For example the current crop of complaining may very well be a silent majority of dislike, but there's no way of knowing for sure. And before you point to that poll, no, the forums are not a representative sample of players. Of course it's some good solid evidence there's a very sizable group of people who dislike the new sprites, which is why I gave a friendly tip that they'll make a stronger case if they explain what the problem is clearly. And I want to stress the problem can be extremely subjective. Hate all 3/4ths? That's fine. Don't like how dark the new toolboxes are? Great! Do they just look too wide/flat/tall/short/skinny? Those are all resolvable problems, and yes, sometimes that resolution does in fact include reversion. But without knowing what the problem is, it sounds an awful lot like that "all change is bad" complaining NikNak made that nobody gives a fuck about.

[cedarbridge]

I think you're misunderstanding what position I was arguing against. Which is my fault for making an overly broad statement but whatever.

There are two positions I find ridiculous. The first, the one that really bothers me the most and the reason I spoke up in the first place, was the one made by NikNak in the OP where he specifically says the new sprite is better but wants the old shittier one because of nostalgia. This argument is retarded at its base and obviously should be discarded. The second stupid argument is the one we're talking about right now, the empty complaint. Most complainers, no matter where they're complaining, are by definition a vocal minority. I would absolutely love to help the complainers because even a vocal minority of one is still one real person whose seriously pissed off. However, since they didn't specify what the problem was and not accepting the sprite is unacceptable since the new sprite would probably be liked by the silent majority, there's absolutely nothing that can be done to resolve the complaint.

Obviously that argument doesn't apply if the majority would not like the new sprite. This turns out to be very hard to prove in practice. For example the current crop of complaining may very well be a silent majority of dislike, but there's no way of knowing for sure. And before you point to that poll, no, the forums are not a representative sample of players. Of course it's some good solid evidence there's a very sizable group of people who dislike the new sprites, which is why I gave a friendly tip that they'll make a stronger case if they explain what the problem is clearly. And I want to stress the problem can be extremely subjective. Hate all 3/4ths? That's fine. Don't like how dark the new toolboxes are? Great! Do they just look too wide/flat/tall/short/skinny? Those are all resolvable problems, and yes, sometimes that resolution does in fact include reversion. But without knowing what the problem is, it sounds an awful lot like that "all change is bad" complaining NikNak made that nobody gives a fuck about.

I'm much more sympathetic to this position as stated and your concerns. However, I do find some space for the "nostalgia" position as, to a degree, SS13 has never really been about pretty graphics to many players. Its always been "a bad game that we play anyway" and many are drawn to it for that aspect. Its a design conundrum because making "improvements" runs counter to that desire. There's nothing really stupid about that desire. Its just different priorities. As the OP says, that silly old sprite is semi-iconic in its own way and holds cultural/emotional value for some players. There's nothing wrong with that.

As you mention, there are many who post on the forums and either don't/can't/don't bother with the game as something they actually play but feel motivated to chime in about it on the forums. Those can be rightfully dismissed, but I fear that given recent overtones in the conversation, legitimate players with complaints or general aesthetic dislike for changes are getting the "baby with the bathwater" treatment. Additionally, I'm not sure we're meeting eye to eye on this sub-issue. The presumption being presented is that changes are presumed good until proven so unsalvageable as to require reversion. Why should the presumption not be against inclusion in the first place until the change is determined to be desirable? I mean, if we're going to compare the sample sizes for feedback groups, a forum poll is certainly larger and more diverse than a github PR feed. The usual response is "anyone can access git/coderbus" but not everyone with a stake in the game should need to idle a coder channel just to keep an eye out for changes they don't like. That's just really backwards to me.

To subjectivity, a lot of why many complaints don't turn into specific feedback that results in "fixes" is because some complaints simply don't have accurate or complete ways to articulate themselves. That's part of what makes them subjective. For example, taken as a whole, I just don't like the new boxes as compared to the shape and style of the others. If pressed I suppose I could really dig into it and name off some specific minor gripes about color or shape or style, but none of them really articulate how I think or feel about the design as a whole. I imagine this is similar for many others. Where there lacks proper terms of specific gripes but overall the whole package just doesn't feel right, they explain it in the simplest way they can. "This sucks, I don't like it. Revert." Obviously that's not really helpful if the goal from the start is to keep the changed sprite in and just go through the "fix" ritual for an undetermined amount of time before allowing reversion.

[ShadowDimentio]

tl;dr Sprites are iconic and beloved by the community, don't tear them out because you think the alternative is better.

[captain sawrge]

tl;dr Sprites are iconic and beloved by the community, don't tear them out because you think the alternative is better.

no. lol!