It will. It always does. I have seen it countless times before, fandoms always turn into pure shit.
I just sit back and enjoy the good fan creations while they last.
Re: Undertale
Posted: Fri Oct 09, 2015 12:40 pm
by Laharl Monthy
Ricotez wrote:It will. It always does. I have seen it countless times before, fandoms always turn into pure shit.
I just sit back and enjoy the good fan creations while they last.
Yeah, I know...Ho well.
I mean...Looking back after finishing this game a week earlier, it does feel also that the game's been overhyped a bit too much.
Spoiler:
I mean, it's definitely a good game, all things considered - a run is short, but still long enough for you to have a great time with it, without the mechanics going boring too fast. The story and progression may be actually quite basic (maybe too basic for some), but I personally found the game hilarious, while being heart wrecking at the right moments - plus, I found all the characters interesting in their own way. Though this style of meta/humor/story might not accommodate anybody - friendship as a theme can be annoying/ a bit corny when going for the pacifist run...
Not that much backtracking involved either, even tho walking back and forth to the castle can be tedious. Thankfully, Toby has done as much as he could to minimize the backtracking.
Tho I will say I definitely like the idea of an RPG tied to a bullet-hell system. That's something that should be exploited, I think.
In short, this game is good - hell, it's fucking great- it's not just the holy messiah that some people make it out to be.
But let's enjoy the good things while it lasts...
Spoiler:
And hope Toby fulling codes in hardmode before it all goes in the shitter.
Re: Undertale
Posted: Fri Oct 09, 2015 12:51 pm
by Ricotez
By now I also think that Undertale might have been a bit overhyped. Don't get me wrong, I still think it is a Very Good Game. It's just that initial burst of emotions, that first experience, set off against your thoughts about the game once you've let it sink in for a few weeks and overthought it a bit more. Review scores are usually based on that first experience, and for Undertale it's absolutely amazing. But over time you lower your classification to just Very Good Game rather than the second coming of video game Jesus. It's a natural process.
One thing the game did very well was make you think a lot more about the consequences of your actions, because it won't let you forget them even if you restart. It gives your choices that much more impact. I liked how Bioshock Infinite was meta-commentary on how pointless the choices in a lot of modern games are (ironically including Bioshock 1 and 2), and Undertale takes that to the other extreme by making your choices matter so much you'll forever feel their consequences. (Unless you do a very thorough scrub of your save files.) I really hope we'll see this level of importance in more games in the future.
I am just happy to have experienced the game the way I did. Never before have I had such a hard time taking "evil" decisions in a game with moral choices.
Re: Undertale
Posted: Fri Oct 09, 2015 12:56 pm
by Steelpoint
I dunno on the killing part, in my first play though I accidently killed one whimper creature in the first stage and when I got to Undyne she was accusing me of being some kind of mass murderer of sorts, took me a bit out when in reality I only killed a single creature.
I guess it was a case of 0 to 90, with full genocide taking it to 110.
Re: Undertale
Posted: Fri Oct 09, 2015 1:00 pm
by Laharl Monthy
Steelpoint wrote:I dunno on the killing part, in my first play though I accidently killed one whimper creature in the first stage and when I got to Undyne she was accusing me of being some kind of mass murderer of sorts, took me a bit out when in reality I only killed a single creature.
I guess it was a case of 0 to 90, with full genocide taking it to 110.
Spoiler:
The fight with Undyne in Genocide Run is...something else entirely. Christ, you're the vilain and she's the heroine at this point.
But, yeah, it sounds like a case of 0 to 90, tho Undyne is definitly the inquisitive type - I believe she accusses you of pulling an act when you're going pacifist.
Re: Undertale
Posted: Fri Oct 09, 2015 2:58 pm
by Ricotez
Undyne has pretty big moral issues in the (more merciful) neutral and pacifist runs. She wonders if you're really that evil. She tries to justify it with whatever she can find.
In the genocide run, that's not an issue of course.
Re: Undertale
Posted: Fri Oct 09, 2015 3:03 pm
by Jacquerel
Remember, the characters have a reason to want you dead entirely apart from "because you are a murderer". They just struggle to justify it to themselves after meeting you (unless you help them justify it).
Re: Undertale
Posted: Fri Oct 09, 2015 3:03 pm
by Ikarrus
Ricotez wrote:It will. It always does. I have seen it countless times before, fandoms always turn into pure shit.
I just sit back and enjoy the good fan creations while they last.
why is sans so fat in the first one. skeletens cant be fat
Re: Undertale
Posted: Sun Oct 11, 2015 7:11 pm
by DemonFiren
He's not fat.
HE'S JUST BIG BONED.
In unrelated news, the fact that I've not yet detected any furry OC shoving himself into Toriel or really anyone fills me with determination.
Which is lost because I know the kind of people Undertale attracts.
Re: Undertale
Posted: Sun Oct 11, 2015 7:54 pm
by captain sawrge
Blunderfail.
Re: Undertale
Posted: Sun Oct 11, 2015 8:14 pm
by invisty
Even tagged/undertail seems to have nothing good going for it.
I appreciate this.
Re: Undertale
Posted: Sun Oct 11, 2015 8:29 pm
by DemonFiren
Just wait for it. It's going to turn into a shithole soon enough.
Which is sad since goatmom resembles realmom to a scary degree.
Re: Undertale
Posted: Sun Oct 11, 2015 8:34 pm
by Laharl Monthy
Fuck it, time to do a gigantic dump of what I found. Spoilers for BOTH kinda runs ahead, be warned.
My favourite still is...uh, spoiler, in case you haven't figured out Toriel's past yet, also, possibly Pacifist ending spoilers. No, not concerning the Pacifist boss. Just concerning two individuals meeting again.
Spoiler:
Re: Undertale
Posted: Sun Oct 11, 2015 11:26 pm
by Ricotez
I was not prepared for Genocide
Spoiler:
Toriel's response absolutely tore me apart. The empty streets of Snowdin absolutely tore me apart. Then when I got to Papyrus and he still believed in me, I caved and spared him. I didn't save the game so I can try it again but I think I need a break first.
Re: Undertale
Posted: Mon Oct 12, 2015 12:04 am
by DemonFiren
Genocide's meant to make you feel like shit.
You-know-who can go right to hell. Pacifist always.
Re: Undertale
Posted: Mon Oct 12, 2015 12:16 am
by Aloraydrel
Tfw still stuck at the end of genocide
Re: Undertale
Posted: Mon Oct 12, 2015 12:51 am
by Laharl Monthy
Aloraydrel wrote:Tfw still stuck at the end of genocide
You know, it's pretty amazing how right the game was about one specific point.
Spoiler:
After the really weird-ass flowey mega boss horror show with a shitty-ass phone call ending, you go back and try to get the true ending. Flowey then tells you if he ever gives you a satisfying ending, you'll stop playing the game, and subsequently stop playing with him. He's right, after beating the game and getting the mother of all happily-ever-after satisfactory endings, I didn't want to go back and start over. Shame you can't save asriel though. Maybe in a future patch, you'll be able to find him at the flowers in the start and fight the fallen child together? http://i.imgur.com/TCtgOjc.png http://i.imgur.com/6mnnqOO.png
It was fun while it lasted, though.
Re: Undertale
Posted: Mon Oct 12, 2015 1:21 am
by Ricotez
if I understand Flowey's implications in the Genocide route correctly, then
Spoiler:
the Fallen Child takes over Frisk's soul for the duration of the game, at least in the Genocide route
I am not quite sure about the other routes (although people don't start addressing you as Frisk until the True End), maybe that will become clear if I ever finish this one
Re: Undertale
Posted: Mon Oct 12, 2015 2:42 am
by captain sawrge
I'm so glad one of this game's characters is a literal fujoshi and completely intolerable.
Re: Undertale
Posted: Mon Oct 12, 2015 10:48 am
by Ricotez
Alphys is the full fangirl stereotype, complete with crippling social anxiety and a tendency to compare herself to trash (the "selfie" that was just a trash can with glitter)
also during one of those random calls that you sometimes get, she tried to order a pizza from me by text but because I still had the old cellphone it started reading out aloud a full ASCII art picture of a catgirl
Re: Undertale
Posted: Mon Oct 12, 2015 11:58 am
by DemonFiren
There's no one I feel more sorry for than Asgore, that old fuck-up.
Spoiler:
I wonder what kind of major malfunction he has developed, and how that will progress with Toriel still hating him.
Re: Undertale
Posted: Mon Oct 12, 2015 12:37 pm
by Jacquerel
Spoiler:
I don't think there's ever going to be a patch or ending that lets you "save" Asriel.
The fact that even in the best ending someone is left behind, is entirely intentional and I think having a "perfect" ending as a reward for diligent backtracking and replaying over and over again would damage the game's core message about the questionable morals of what you're doing by resetting it in the first place.
Undertale doesn't want you to replay it over and over again, though it knows that you'll probably want to. The only reward it gives you for replaying it after getting the "true" ending is pain.
Re: Undertale
Posted: Mon Oct 12, 2015 1:38 pm
by Ricotez
that's what fanfiction exists for
Re: Undertale
Posted: Mon Oct 12, 2015 1:41 pm
by TheWiznard
Ricotez wrote:that's what fanfiction exists for
Spoiler:
Re: Undertale
Posted: Mon Oct 12, 2015 1:42 pm
by Ricotez
the crossover I never knew I wanted
Re: Undertale
Posted: Mon Oct 12, 2015 2:05 pm
by DemonFiren
Ricotez wrote:that's what fanfiction exists for
Someone will mod it, someday.
Spoiler:
I want my intact goatfamily, dammit.
Re: Undertale
Posted: Mon Oct 12, 2015 2:13 pm
by Laharl Monthy
God damn it all, I gotta find that picture of Papyrus cosplaying Overlord now.
DemonFiren wrote:There's no one I feel more sorry for than Asgore, that old fuck-up.
Spoiler:
I wonder what kind of major malfunction he has developed, and how that will progress with Toriel still hating him.
Imagine being such an enormous piece of garbage even the nicest person in the underground divorces you and locks herself up with her dead son just so she doesn't have to see your face anymore.
Asgore "Heads will roll for them human souls" Dreemurr
Asgore "If you fall in my cave, you'll fall in a grave" Dreemurr
Asgore "Giving humans a lead injection for my people's protection" Dreemurr
Asgore "If their skin is pink, I don't even need to think" Dreemurr
Re: Undertale
Posted: Mon Oct 12, 2015 3:36 pm
by DemonFiren
Eeeeh, she actually locks herself up with
Spoiler:
Chara. That's this thing's grave Frisk landed on.
That, and Asgore's a really nice guy. He's just a bit misguided. At least he realises it and has the decency to apologise before trying to murder you.
Spoiler:
And Toriel's not much better for leaving him in the first place. Stay and slap some sense into him, next time.
Re: Undertale
Posted: Mon Oct 12, 2015 3:40 pm
by captain sawrge
Spoiler:
Toriel tells him he could have used the first human soul they got to have Asgore go through the barrier and gather the rest from the dying/recently dead. He acknowledges that this was a possibility. Instead he just decides he needs to murder every human in the world because his son was a fucking sociopath.
Spoiler:
Also I'm pretty sure that Asriel's dust was scattered on the flowers in front of Toriel's house.
So she locks herself up with both of her dead sons.
Re: Undertale
Posted: Mon Oct 12, 2015 3:47 pm
by Jacquerel
Spoiler:
I think you are not quite reading those lines correctly.
He didn't say "no, I need to murder every human".
He said "You're right, I just sat here waiting for humans to show up because I am not actually that enthusiastic about killing people, but I wanted my people to have hope."
He isn't sitting in his garden because of bloodlust, he's sitting there because of cowardice.
At any time he could cross the barrier, kill some humans, get some souls, and break the barrier, but doing that would make him personally responsible for those deaths.
Doing nothing until he is forced to is his easy way out. His people still get to go "any day now our king will set us free, yep, surely going to happen soon" while he doesn't actually do anything, meanwhile he can sit on his throne hoping no more humans show up. Because he doesn't actually want to kill anyone. His people get to hope, and he gets to pretend he's still a good person.
From the positions of the previous fallen humans' belongings, it doesn't seem unlikely that apart from Chara, you're the first human to actually make it all the way to his throne room. His plan has mostly worked so far.
Like Undyne trying to paint you as a murderer or a liar and coming to the same conclusions depending on whether you have or have not killed anyone so far, it's people trying to justify horrible deeds, repainting it so that they can look selfless, so that they can live with themselves.
Re: Undertale
Posted: Mon Oct 12, 2015 4:05 pm
by captain sawrge
Spoiler:
He still wanted to wage war on humans, did he not?
Also I know the game goes way deeper than any of my stupid jokes but I really, really like coming up with the "asgore is a child murderer" names
Re: Undertale
Posted: Mon Oct 12, 2015 4:10 pm
by DemonFiren
captain sawrge wrote:
Spoiler:
He still wanted to wage war on humans, did he not?
Also I know the game goes way deeper than any of my stupid jokes but I really, really like coming up with the "asgore is a child murderer" names
Of course he did.
Spoiler:
He freaked out after his eight-year-old boy got violently murdered. I can kind of understand the situation he was in.
Re: Undertale
Posted: Mon Oct 12, 2015 4:13 pm
by Jacquerel
Spoiler:
I remember the day after my son died.
The entire underground was devoid of hope.
The future had once again been taken from us by the humans.
In a fit of anger, I declared war.
I said that I would destroy any human who came here.
I would use their souls to become godlike...
... and free us from this terrible prison.
Then, I would destroy humanity...
And let monster rule the surface, in peace.
Soon, the people's hopes returned.
My wife, however, became disgusted with my actions.
She left this place, never to be seen again.
Truthfully...
I do not want power.
I do not want to hurt anyone.
I just wanted everyone to have hope...
But...
I cannot take this any longer.
I just want to see my wife.
I just want to see my child.
Please... Young one...
This war has gone on long enough.
You have the power...
Take my soul, and leave this cursed place.
Way I read this was "King makes angry promise the day after his kid is killed, subjects love it. King quickly realises he really doesn't want to follow through on this but also does not want to let people down. King decides to take the path of least resistance".
I guess there's room for interpretation though.
Re: Undertale
Posted: Mon Oct 12, 2015 4:26 pm
by DemonFiren
So it's kind of established that Asgore is an idiot sandwich.
But a delicious one, too.
Re: Undertale
Posted: Mon Oct 12, 2015 5:51 pm
by Ricotez
Asgore is the one who decided to name the original sanctuary of the monsters (the ruins) "Home" and the new capital "New Home"
He is probably also responsible for the names of Snowdin, Waterfall, Hotland and CORE.
He's a big fluffy dum-dum.
Re: Undertale
Posted: Mon Oct 12, 2015 5:57 pm
by DemonFiren
He's just bad at naming things.
Spoiler:
Asriel gets it too. "Flowey the Flower" is not particularly original.
Re: Undertale
Posted: Mon Oct 12, 2015 6:06 pm
by Jacquerel
Spoiler:
And in case anyone hadn't realised: As-gore To-riel
Re: Undertale
Posted: Mon Oct 12, 2015 6:14 pm
by Ricotez
DemonFiren wrote:He's just bad at naming things.
Spoiler:
Asriel gets it too. "Flowey the Flower" is not particularly original.
Spoiler:
I never really thought about this, but it does explain why his attacks have such names as "Shocker Breaker"
Re: Undertale
Posted: Mon Oct 12, 2015 6:59 pm
by DemonFiren
Ricotez wrote:
DemonFiren wrote:He's just bad at naming things.
Spoiler:
Asriel gets it too. "Flowey the Flower" is not particularly original.
Spoiler:
I never really thought about this, but it does explain why his attacks have such names as "Shocker Breaker"
Spoiler:
Asriel's an 8-year-old boy.
That should explain everything.
Re: Undertale
Posted: Mon Oct 12, 2015 7:03 pm
by captain sawrge
Jacquerel wrote:
Spoiler:
And in case anyone hadn't realised: As-gore To-riel
Spoiler:
Asriel Dreemur
a s r i e l d r e e m u r r
s e r i a l m u r d e r e r
Re: Undertale
Posted: Mon Oct 12, 2015 9:56 pm
by Ikarrus
DemonFiren wrote:
Spoiler:
Asriel's an 8-year-old boy.
That should explain everything.
