Payday 2

[XSI]

The ton of hostages only works on maps with civs to take hostage
That said it is pretty useful on every map that has them

The ammo issue you can fix easily by bringing a friend with ammo bags. And there's a lot of ways to become completely ammo neutral for many builds, just costs you some points

[Timbrewolf]

You'd be surprised. I got us up to 8 hostages + my two converts on Slaughterhouse.

All cops. No civvies.

[EndgamerAzari]

It's true, though I'm not sure how much I noticed the buffs from it. Might have just been too preoccupied.

Anyone up for it tonight?

[Timbrewolf]

It's quite significant. With the maximum of 10 hostages and two jokered guys this build gives:

+30% health on self for having a convert
+10% speed for having a convert
+4.5% health regen every 5 seconds on self (it's like I'm really using the muscle deck!) for having a convert
+20% health on everyone for having 10 hostages
+40% stamina for having 10 hostages
+10% armor on self for testudo
+15% armor on everyone else for testudo
+20% health on self for wolf pack
+10% health on everyone else for wolf pack
+50% stamina for everyone for Marathon Man
+16% damage reduction for everyone (24% on self when HP is 50% or less)
+4 damage absorption for having 8+ hostages

So in total:

Your health goes up +70%
Your armor goes up +10%
Your stamina goes up +90%
Your speed goes up +10%
You get +4.5% health for every 5 seconds
You have 4 points of damage absorption and 16% damage reduction (potentially 24% when you really need it)

Everyone else gets
+30% health
+15% armor
+90% stamina
4 points of damage absorption and 16% damage reduction

Plus you can yell at them from REALLY far away (+75% distance) to make them go faster or revive.

You wont notice it because numbers aren't flying out of you all the time, and this game doesn't have status icons flashing at you MMO style, but it's pretty huge.

[XSI]

Oh, right. I forgot that you can actually make more than one cop surrender now

Very useful on practically every map then.

[Timbrewolf]

pls upvote pls

http://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/f ... =703282749

[K-64]

I've been having fun with a new sentry build. It isn't exactly the most efficient in terms of weapons for placing the turrets, but it does the job. And to not be a complete shitter that doesn't provide for the team I throw on an ammo bag as secondary instead of going full retard with 6 turrets. Got maniac as the perk deck just so that the turret spam has a direct effect on crew survivability. I probably need to choose different guns for it to be DW viable since I'm running Bootleg and Krinkov. On the right heists, it basically has a permanent maximum hysteria stacks at any one time.

But yeah, 4 turrets is more than enough. Especially for things like Counterfeit, it frees up the rest of the crew for the printing shit.

[Timbrewolf]

Looking through the other guides available, a lot of these builds are really shit.

There's a lot of stuff in here labeled as good on Deathwish that definitely aren't.
Stuff that might put out a ton of damage but has no survivability at all and doesn't contribute anything to the team.

[K-64]

One question with your skills though, any reason you went with Die Hard instead of Transporter? Does the ICTV actually get buffed by Die Hard aced or something?

[Timbrewolf]

No, it doesn't, but it's a points dump so you can get to the ICTV

It's 50% damage reduction while interacting with objects + something totally useless
vs.
50% farther bag tossing and a boost to speed while running bags

In my (totally unpopular) opinion transporter is neat but not as clutch as the 50% damage reduction while interacting. I know everyone loves transporter but I'd rather be able to calmly finish activating a mission object while under fire (then run back to cover) then be able to run around tossing bags faster.

Transporter gives people the false hope that they can start running bags around during assaults on DW. It doesn't. You will still die, you'll just get further before being gunned down. Day 1 rats is a great example of this. Transporter does not let you run bags from the house to the van during an assault. You will still get slaughtered. Day 1 watchdogs you will still get slaughtered. Vice versa during a period of calm when everyone is going to run bags transporter isn't clutch it's just a convenience thing.

Meanwhile the 50% damage reduction DOES let you run out during an assault and fix a drill. Pick a door open. Hack a computer. You can finish one of these things, then run back to cover or get shouted up if its too heavy. The 50% damage reduction enables clutch plays like these. The Aced ability does fucking nothing for this build, sure, but we don't have the points to get one level of Die Hard and then ace Transporter to unlock ICTV.

If you ever have one of those OH SHIT moments where you are the last one standing on your team and you are racing to finish using a FAK while all the remaining cops are shooting the shit out of you so you can heal up then shout up a teammate who shouts up someone else, etc. Like...damn that 50% reduction is fucking great.

[K-64]

Perhaps removing the ace from Die Hard, and get the basic Transporter and ace resilience. The bag tossing will at least be useful, and the whole flashbang thing will definitely help a fuckton, especially on DW where those things are being handed out like candy. The build listed was at level 99, so you should have the extra point needed once you reach 100

[Timbrewolf]

IIRC 100 is three points. One for the level up and 2 more bonus points.

So you could ditch the ace, drop the ghost points, and get aced transporter instead.

[K-64]

I dunno. I feel the ghost stuff might be kinda necessary since without it you'll be slow as fuck. Having more movement speed is more important than removing bag movement pentalties. Especially since the only things that transporter aced will really help with are bags of gold and servers.

[Timbrewolf]

It is a pretty big bonus to move speed though. Like potentially 30% depending on buffs.

I'm glad you pointed that out because it is worth rethinking. It's just my personal pref.

[dezzmont]

Dodge builds, at least crook builds, love the shit out of grandad, because they care a lot about both sides of the buff and the damage reduction on top! They are basically the grandkids running around being little scamps and bringing gifts (read: Hostages) back to grandad while his coffee kicks in for the morning.

[Timbrewolf]

Dodge builds that are spec'ed to shoot while sprinting to get the highest possible dodge% will gain significantly. Congrats, here's almost DOUBLE YOUR STAMINA HOOOOOOLY SHIT.

Grinders, Muscles, Ex-Presidents, Maniacs, and Infiltrators will all get a pretty direct buff to their tank as well.

[EndgamerAzari]

Shotgun flechettes are hilariously good. Shooting down snipers with them is great.

Ex-President hasn't been working too well for me so far, but it could be because I don't have it maxed yet. Maybe I should stick with Gambler until I get it leveled up more.

[Timbrewolf]

I'm up for playing tonight if folks are down.

[EndgamerAzari]

Sure thing. I'll be in around 9.

[K-64]

I'd be up for it. Wouldn't mind not needing to slum with the pubbies for a goddamn change.

EDIT: Might as well throw up my more serious build for critique and all that fun stuff

Enforcer:

Spoiler:

Technician:

Spoiler:

Ghost:

Spoiler:

Still got no idea on what weapon to use as a primary, although for the secondary I've taken a shine to the Krinkov since it's an SMG (that auto fire for the skills) that also has decent ammo economy since its firing rate is easy to control. Pretty much just have 4 turrets in primary slot, ammo secondary. Then it's a simple case of placing turrets well so they kill things to keep those hysteria stacks up while running about doing objectives and providing backup wherever needed.

[Wyzack]

Fuck it, updating mine now. I will probably start earlier than 9 since i have not played in a long ass time and have no idea what to build. I might be a slight burden to the team at first

[EndgamerAzari]

Oh man, the Krinkov is great. I used to use that as my secondary on my LMG build. It's super-accurate and hits hard, and its magazine is massive. The only problem is you can't carry a ton of ammo for it, but as K-64 said, it's really easy to control.

[Wyzack]

Okay i am fucking completely overwhelmed by all this new shit. Should i just pick one of the builds people have posted in here and start building that? I used to go mostly mastermind tree with the streyr aug and raging bull as my guns, lots of headshots

[K-64]

I would probably say to try and recreate the main parts of what you used to have since chances are you'll be able to get the fundamentals of it easily enough with the new trees, and then see what to put the spare points into that looks useful and see if it works. Might not be the most elegant solution but tweaking builds doesn't tend to be elegant in the first place anyway.

[Wyzack]

That is kinda what i figured, started doing that anyways. I have no perk points, I assume i get those as i play? And what perk deck would work well with my doctor rifleman kinda build?

[K-64]

I would go with something that either supports the team like Gambler, or increases your own survivability like Muscle maybe? Something with some form of health regen means that you wouldn't need to rely on your own meds as often, meaning more for the rest of the team if needed.

[Wyzack]

Alright, i think i am good to go. Hit me up on steam when we are gonna play, just gonna run some mount and blade in the meantime

[THE MIGHTY GALVATRON]

I'm down for some Payday if you'll have me. Just like... drop a line or something.

[Wyzack]

Are we friends on steam? If not ad me, Wyzack

[Timbrewolf]

I'm on discord hanging out if people want to PRAY GAEM

[Wyzack]

how do i into discord? Is it just a program like teamspeak?

[Timbrewolf]

Yep. You can run it in a browser window as well. It's growing on me. Has a lot of neat integrated features specifically for gaming.

[Wyzack]

Well i am ready to shoot cops and stuff. How do i find you on it?

[dezzmont]

Tightest crew ever! Let no one claim that deathwish is hard!

[Timbrewolf]

[K-64]

That was some seriously tight heistery. Despite being the highest level nolifer there, I was being told what to do on DW because I've literally only done a few stealthy heists and Mallcrasher on DW. And Mallcrasher is just a breeze either way. Turning the corpse limiter off also caused areas to look like mass graves extremely quickly

Spoiler:

[EndgamerAzari]

I AM PRESIDENT OF SHOTGUN

Hitting 10+ people at once in the stairwell on that escape mission with my incendiary rounds was horrific and beautiful at the same time. LIGHT UP THE NIIIIGHT

[Steelpoint]

Back when I played Deathwish was not as hard so long as you were well equipped and had a competent team............

Back then I used a Dodging build using duel pistols and no armour to dodge and weave in and out.

Is that kind of build, a dodge akimbo build, still viable on Deathwish? Anything's viable on Overkill but Deathwish demanded you really get a good set up going.

[XSI]

Dodge is viable, but slightly nerfed

It comes in other forms now, no more unarmoured suits

[dezzmont]

I main dodge builds.

They are no longer totally immortal. They are now just quasi immortal and making a mistake will put you down.

[EndgamerAzari]

If people are up for it again tonight, I'm game. I may switch out my incendiary rounds, though, since they seemed to be getting in GRAND DAD's way.

I'm thinking of making a dodge build that focuses on utilizing the bonus damage to silenced weapons that the Ghost tree has to pour on LODS OF ADAMG. Any thoughts?

[THE MIGHTY GALVATRON]

I'm down for it, trying to build some sort of runnin' and gunnin' Contra/Metal Slug machine gun type guy.

[EndgamerAzari]

A silenced Judge with exploding rounds is a thing you can do and it's so fucking dumb and it works

[THE MIGHTY GALVATRON]

A silenced Judge with exploding rounds is a thing you can do and it's so fucking dumb and it works

Save for the silencer that's pretty much my secondary right now.

[K-64]

It is an absolutely amazing weapon for killing shields and weakening dozers. Before the skills revamp my weapons were usually a Mosconi and HE Judge.

[EndgamerAzari]

I used the Judge as my secondary on my akimbo build, and since this is something of a rehash of it, I thought "what the hell, let's see if this works. There's no way suppressors are compatible with explosive ammo." I was wrong. While the suppressor I'm using makes the gun look more like metal bar than a weapon, the almost-silent 'phunt' followed by the near-inaudible explosion of the round is absolutely hilarious.

[EndgamerAzari]

Biker pack is here. According to a post on /r/paydaytheheist, here's what the perk deck does:

The Biker perk deck:
T1: Prospect- +5 health and +5 armor every time you or your crew gets a kill. Can occur 10 times every 30 seconds.

T3: Tail Gunner- Increased the amount of armor gained per kill by 1 per 10% health missing (AKA if you have 80% of your max health, you will gain 7 armor instead of 5.)

T5: Road Captain- Reduces cooldown for Prospect by 1 second per 10% health missing. (if you have 80% health, then Prospect can occur 10 times every 28 seconds.)

T7: Sgt-At-Arms- Increases amount of health gained by 1 per kill per 10% of armor missing. (This one is weird, as armor amounts fluxuate a lot)

T9: Prez- Reduces the 30 second cooldown by 1 second per 10% of armor missing. (I have no idea how this one will work, and when it'll check for your armor amount.)

EDIT: with suit, if your armor is broken and anyone gets a kill you will usually just instantly gain 75% of your armor, this pack seems almost broken when it comes to armor gating

[Timbrewolf]

Immediately purchased both. TIME 2 GRIND.

That perk deck looks really fucking insane combined with Frenzy/Berzerker.

You'll be permanently capped at 50% life, meaning every kill you or anyone else gets grants you 10 armor, up to 100 armor every 30 seconds.

If you're running Bullseye Aced, using Overkill, and wielding the new shotgun your damage output is going to be pants-on-head retarded while your armor regen should be enough to sustain you and the missing 50% health wont matter much from the constant dings you'll be granted from your perk deck.

[Wyzack]

Noice. I want to buy it just to be ron perlman

Also can you guys recommend a couple DLC? I have some extra steambux but the amount of DLC for this game is so huge i dont want to buy garbage

[Timbrewolf]

1) Courier mods. #1 must have DLC for the amount of insanely good add-ons it brings to the game.
2) Overkill DLC. Gets you the chaingun (kinda meh) and the RPG-7 (god-tier must have weapon)
3) Shotgun DLC. All them shells baybee. Weapons are all okay, but the shells are really the important get.
4) Ak/Car pack, if you use those weapons. Elevates the weapons in those packs to god-tier. The AMR-16 especially.
5) Other character DLC you may not have. Get them perk decks.
6) The BBQ pack gets you the flamethrower (it's FUN) the stakeout AA-12 (it's FUN and REALLY GOOD) and a grenade launcher (kinda meh but still FUN). Also gives you molotovs to throw, incendiary grenade rounds, and dragon's breath shotgun rounds (all of which kill my hostages and make me cry)