/tg/Station 13

anyone down to operate like old times sake

maybe

Ace copter pilot reporting in.

i call sniper

Cuboos wrote:sniper

Oh fuck here we go again.

<insert rant about designated marksman vs. sniper here>

>implying everyone isn't basically a designated marksman in arma 3: everyone has optics edition

Except y'know they have DMRs.

Small unit tactics don't really survive any engagement in Arma because most people are idiots and just start shooting at the first thing they see as soon as they see it.

Everyone is a rifleman, except for the autorifleman and combat life saver.

Even if you have a DM's rifle chances are you're still just another idiot rifleman unless the element is disciplined enough to know how to actually use a DM in an engagement. A DM without an AR to work alongside or screen of riflemen to provide surpressing fire is nobody. Just a rifleman who thinks he's playing a hunting game and not a war sim.

This is why I stopped playing Arma3 before, or at least stopped trying to lead people, and just relegated myself to helicopter taxi driver. People don't listen. Now instead of leading people to their deaths I can just drop them off at their deaths and watch from high above.

You just need to find the right people who like to play tactically and not just tacticools.

ColonicAcid wrote:Except y'know they have DMRs.

This is my point like, 110%

Just holding a designated marksman's rifle DOES NOT make you a DMR.
Just having a scope that isn't stuck zero'ed to 300m DOES NOT make you a DMR.

A person only becomes a DMR when they're executing DMR orders. Like taking up an overwatch position as the rest of the squad maneuvers into place to begin an attack on a position or group. Executing point-fire on a target while the rest of the squad suppresses it. Things like that, things that are supportive of current squad orders and require a lot of coordination and discipline to execute.

In rare circumstances when the mission permits it, yes they are scouting ahead of the element, executing point-fire on single targets to clear the way for the rest of the unit. THATS REALLY FUCKING RARE THOUGH. Nighttime infiltration ops only. Typically you're not going to find single opfor just wandering around in the opening waiting to be shot that can be taken without alerting more units in the area. We're talking about a mission for specialist units anyway, where the whole squad formation usually gets thrown out because we're using Spec Ops and not infantry anyway.

Basically I hate most players who want to be DM or Sniper roles in a squad because they're often the ones responsible for squad wipes. They can see a guy, they can hit him, so they shoot at him, not realizing that they've essentially drawn the attention of an enemy force that is outside the engagement range of everyone else in our unit. And very soon we find ourselves taking lots of area fire from an enemy we can at best attempt to suppress. And the casualties and attrition mounts and that's game.

"I don't know what everyone else's problem is look how many I killed you guys need to get good."

Honestly that's the big dumb secret of being a good Squad Leader.
It's not about getting your guys around so they can kill tons of people and blow all this shit up.
It's herding people from point A to point B in a way that keeps everyone alive. You're not a commissar leading a killsquad of murdermachines into glorious blood ocean, you're a momma duck trying to keep your eggs from getting busted open while knocking off objectives. It's conservative as fuck, but survival of the unit has to be the top priority all the time or else you'll quickly get flanked from the tunnel vision that occurs when you just focus on objectives and fighting the enemies in front of you.

The way most people play DM (or more accurately, think they are playing DM) throws a big ass stick right into the spokes of that bike. Hence why I fucking hate them.

ayy macerena

if ur reading this and want to be a real operator paramilitary IRA PKK tamil tigers whatever the fuck check out these mods

http://www.armaholic.com/page.php?id=18767
http://www.armaholic.com/page.php?id=23615
^^^ download these if you want to be an operator

(seriously, you're gonna need them)

http://www.armaholic.com/page.php?id=21914
http://www.armaholic.com/page.php?id=21912
we used these at wild hogs but wildhogs is basically dead so it's up in the air. both add a bunch of nice stuff, both are worth downloading

i would also recommend hamachi depending on who runs the server. even if you don't use it it's still nice to have.

An0n3 wrote:

ColonicAcid wrote:Except y'know they have DMRs.

-snip-

lol i played call of duty imp retty sure you noobs jut need to quickscope stop hardscoping lol faggots

An0n3 wrote: A person only becomes a DMR when they're executing DMR orders. Like taking up an overwatch position as the rest of the squad maneuvers into place to begin an attack on a position or group. Executing point-fire on a target while the rest of the squad suppresses it. Things like that, things that are supportive of current squad orders and require a lot of coordination and discipline to execute.

In rare circumstances when the mission permits it, yes they are scouting ahead of the element, executing point-fire on single targets to clear the way for the rest of the unit. THATS REALLY FUCKING RARE THOUGH. Nighttime infiltration ops only. Typically you're not going to find single opfor just wandering around in the opening waiting to be shot that can be taken without alerting more units in the area. We're talking about a mission for specialist units anyway, where the whole squad formation usually gets thrown out because we're using Spec Ops and not infantry anyway.

This is pretty much how i play sniper/DM. I'm better at spotting enemies from a distance than up close. Picking off people trying to flank squad members, scouting ahead and reporting on conditions, clearing a path for others to proceed.

i ain't no call of duty faggot.

EDIT: by the way, when do we begin?

DM makes a crappy scout. Give a rifleman a pair of binoculars and put him on point to look ahead.

Why does the DM make a crappy scout? Because when he gets in trouble he's the most poorly equipped to help himself. In the event where he stumbles onto someone in close quarters his rifle is a really poor choice of armament. He's going to get rapidly overpowered. In the event where he's spotted at long range he's holding onto the squad's best means of putting point-fire on that target and clearing it off him.

It's better to have a regular rifleman do that because if either situation happens to them, they're either better armed to handle the first situation, and in the second situation someone who ISNT taking point/area fire has the weapon they can use to solve the problem.

If you're going to have a designated marksman in your squad he should hang out towards the rear of the formation with your CLS. Consider putting him in the 3man element with another rifleman and make your 2man element an automatic rifleman and his assistant. Alternatively, make the 3man element AR/DM/CLS and the 2man element two basic riflemen.

An0n3 wrote:I know better than everyone else and i'm going to write three paragraphs explaining why

Well, that's why you send a team, of usually two. One guy with the big long rifle and powerful scopes. He takes a look FAR ahead and reports back to team. Then you have a normal rifleman who keeps watch around around them and sometimes acts as a spotter.


Seriously though, when and where? do we start giving Steam names or something?

But no, you don't do that.

Imagine your designated marksman is ahead of your unit and runs into trouble. He gets pinned down and is being surpressed because he got spotted. Like you suggest he has a second rifleman with him, so now two of your guys are stuck behind a low wall taking fire from an enemy squad.

Because your designated marksman is tied up you now have to bring the rest of your element within range of their suppressing fire to try to untangle this mess. You have to bring yourself to the battle line they've drawn. Not only that, but they'll likely still have their own designated marksman to execute point-fire on your whole element at leisure while you try to maneuver. You've set yourself up for the beginning of the end because you misused your resources.

You could try to race the four remaining members of your element into a flanking position and hope that:
A) Your scout team can hold out long enough for you to do that (that is they don't just eat grenades or get flanked themselves before you can finish your maneuver)
B) Your enemy doesn't spot you during your movement.

I mean think about it. In simple terms you have this guy whose special power is his ability to accurately poke people full of holes at long ranges with precision. Why the hell would you ever put him in the front? Unless there's some kind of shortage of binoculars and you really need to use his rifle as a telescope there's no point to that. Other people go ahead of him to find targets for him. He stays in the back and keeps his eyes open for contacts other people missed.

I know what you're proposing doesn't work because I've been in units that have tried it both ways and I've lead units that have tried it both ways. As a totally independent scout unit not attached to a squad? Yes, that composition makes the best of what you have. When you have the luxury of four more bodies to commit to the mission there are safer tactics to use.

Like I have been the DM stuck behind the rock wall because my SL sent me ahead to scout and I'm taking WW3 levels of incoming fire wondering "Well, now what the fuck am I supposed to do?" while my SL just stands their scratching his head trying to figure out how to dig us out of this hole.

uhhh


guess we can do sunday

if i can't get upgradecap to run ill see if i can handle running a server

won't be anything too specific, probably be some simple skirmishes

If you really want to be credit to team stop practicing with DMR's and sniper-rifles and start practicing with grenade launchers.

A good grenadier is insanely useful to an SL. Having a guy who can injure or incapacitate entire elements at 600m is better than a guy who can put point fire on a single guy at 800m. I love that fucking thing, and I'd be happy to join the squad as a grenadier if there's a spot.

EDIT: Did they ever fix the busted ass AI in this to act more realistically or are they still a bunch of unflinching terminators who don't fear incoming fire? I was hosting a server for a very few of us briefly that used mods to make the AI more realistic that was leaps and bounds more fun to play co-op missions on than what we were using previously. If we're going to be playing co-op and the AI is still 100% pure shit I would urge whoever is hosting to download, install, and read the configurations of (http://www.armaholic.com/page.php?id=24080). It revolutionizes the AI so that:

1) They detect people more like real people/players would.
2) They react to incoming fire and explosions like real people/players would.
3) They use different fire modes appropriately
4) They use their own grenades/smoke grenades
5) They use different postures and leans like a player would
6) Being injured affects their performance and behavior.

Also this is always a cool tool for obrats that helps you stay with your bros and stuff.
http://www.armaholic.com/page.php?id=18949

Alright so who's hosting? i'll throw it in and say i can. I've hosted a few things but i don't have many scenarios. So if i host you guys will have to suggest some.

Also how will we be communicating? TeamSpeak? in-game voice? skype?

NSOS posted taskforce arrowhead + teamspeak.

REALISTIC IRANIAN RADIOS

i will realistically not be able to run tonight, but i should before the upcoming week is through

An0n3 to be fair when I played with you guys the squad lead I was assigned to had no idea what he was doing and was unable to communicate effectively how he wanted his line lined up.

And no, that is not a simple order to give in an online game, it is actually a pretty good way to spot someone who has squad leader training from one who doesn't.

"Like up facing east behind X on this point in order of assigned number" is going to get you a line. "I want you guys to make a line" is going to get people running about because when you can't easily look behind you or tell someone is standing behind you most people won't realize they are the line leader and will try to move behind someone because they think they are out of line, resulting in a virtual mosh pit. Seriously. When running virtual exercises designate a line leader for the love of fucking god, failing to do so outs yourself as a huge armature who doesn't understand the basics of the medium.

Also we were ordered to engage people at a 700 meter range repeatedly which was fucking hilarious, and were repeatedly caught out in the open because our lead enjoyed using the designated marksman and combat lifesaver as forward fucking scouts in the most backwards way possible because he would designate a safe spot for us to hide ahead of our position, which wasn't fun at all. Bonus points for making us fight towards the sun. I also distinctly remember us repeatedly charging up hill towards machine gun fire coming from that hilltop village.

If you want people to play like operators you need a good leadership element willing to be explicit about what they want and willing to force people who are not willing to put in the effort to take the game of pretend seriously to sit out. It may seem harsh but it is like kicking the guy who always shows up late to your D&D group and talks over the game about some TV show out of the campaign. Being there to have fun isn't an excuse for ignoring the itinerary.

That's why the three of us quickly claimed the "Spec Ops Engineer" mini squad and bolted away from the giant clusterfuck squad.

Whoever set that mission up is an idiot. Instead of breaking up the player forces into squads they basically lumped them all into one giant squad and divided the squads into fireteams.

Arma becomes impossible to play if you don't have roughly one leadership-material person per maximum 7 other players.

Okay so it looks like Sunday and today won't work out, what about tomorrow or Wednesday? also have we made up our minds about who's hosting?

ill go bother upgradecap

ACRE2 has been released (Beta) http://forums.bistudio.com/showthread.p ... ta-Release
It's pretty good. Also to install mods we should probably use PW6 - http://play.withsix.com/
It keeps shit organised and we can have a repo instead of people possibly installing the wrong thing or someshit.

I'd totally be up for operating though, Wild Hogs Mk2? Also this is what happened last time people from /tg/station played ARMA 3.

Most of the WILD HOGS unit were arrested and put on multiple life sentences in military prisons as a result of that OP.

I've had to disavow all knowledge of the unit and any working history. Hell I don't even know who you are or what that's a photo of fuck off.

any ETA?

updoot: got finished moving shit around to a new HDD. had to redownload ARMA. i am expecting to at least be able to run some small scale (read: test run) type of missions by the end of the weekend, most likely sunday.

litmeuplol wrote: I'd totally be up for operating though, Wild Hogs Mk2?

Spoiler:

I still have that patch on my soldier never forget

An0n3 wrote:Most of the WILD HOGS unit were arrested and put on multiple life sentences in military prisons as a result of that OP.

I've had to disavow all knowledge of the unit and any working history. Hell I don't even know who you are or what that's a photo of fuck off.

so we'll destroy wild hogs. we're done with fighting proxy kebab removals for men who are just going to replace it with shawarma and gyro. we'll create a soldier's paradise, removed far from any political power's control.

Shitposters Sans Frontières.

yeah i know i'm working backwards shet up idiot

11/8/14

It's not the end of the world

But you can see it from here.

Holy christ you are all terrible at coordination at this game. Also

ArmA 2+ACE master race reporting

It's neat but Arma 3 + AGM is breddy gud

Antonkr wrote:Holy christ you are all terrible at coordination at this game. Also

CAUSE NO ONE'S STEPPING UP TO HOST OR CONTACT.

Antonkr wrote:Holy christ you are all terrible at coordination at this game. Also

ArmA 2+ACE master race reporting

To be honest, I doubt anyone here have/want to do A2 (But I totally play A2 motherfucker watch out)

Also, please enlighten us with your coordination experience.

Cuboos wrote:

Antonkr wrote:Holy christ you are all terrible at coordination at this game. Also

CAUSE NO ONE'S STEPPING UP TO HOST OR CONTACT.

nsos wrote:11/8/14

nsos wrote:

Cuboos wrote:

Antonkr wrote:Holy christ you are all terrible at coordination at this game. Also

CAUSE NO ONE'S STEPPING UP TO HOST OR CONTACT.

nsos wrote:11/8/14

Vanilla?
Time?
TS? (optional i guess)

we'll be using the 4 links in https://tgstation13.org/phpBB/viewtopic ... 774#p38676


time is still in a flux situation. it will most likely be in the afternoon/evening in EST/GMT -5 terms
TS will probably happen since it's needed for task force alpha, i just need to make sure if either of the servers we had been using before on wild hogs still work or not.

i'll be dropping my steam contact info and other more pertinent information tomorrow.

Unsure if my serber is up since im not home but you can probably connect to it through ts.ss13.eu

Antonkr wrote:Unsure if my serber is up since im not home but you can probably connect to it through ts.ss13.eu

<15:35:51> Failed to connect to server

Cuboos wrote:

Antonkr wrote:Unsure if my serber is up since im not home but you can probably connect to it through ts.ss13.eu

<15:35:51> Failed to connect to server

Computer probably crashed or something. Ill have it up around saturday when I am home but you guys gonna have to look for an alternative for the 11/8. Sorry :/

Antonkr wrote:

Cuboos wrote:

Antonkr wrote:Unsure if my serber is up since im not home but you can probably connect to it through ts.ss13.eu

<15:35:51> Failed to connect to server

Computer probably crashed or something. Ill have it up around saturday when I am home but you guys gonna have to look for an alternative for the 11/8. Sorry :/

do you think you'll have it up by 11/9?

Welp looks like I am fucking bad at calendars but yes 11/9 will be up. 11/8 is fine too but likely not until around noon EST.

I wanna kebab remove.
I play arma 3 altis life all the time.

Specific time?
Because I might not be able to play depending on that shit.

alright homeslices here's the sick plan

once we're able to get onto antonkr we'll probably start running around 5PM EST. making sure everything works is the most important thing for this session so it'll probably be some basic coop type of shit for this weekend.

my steam ID is at steamcommunity.com/id/nsos

if something comes up/the time is not good for a majority of people/server is kill/etc. the backup date will be 11/9 at 6PM EST **roughly** since i got to attend some shit on that day

Alright I stopped being a dumb idiot and got ts3 up
ts.ss13.eu

i will be around 5-10 mins late but aside from that as long as we get a semi-decent turnout we should be gucci

if you haven't already my steam account is at steamcommunity.com/id/nsos