Paradox Grand Strat meets Sci-Fi 4X; Boners Explode

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Re: Paradox Grand Strat meets Sci-Fi 4X; Boners Explode

Postby Incomptinence » Sun May 15, 2016 10:13 am #176588

Yeah I am good for another one probably that bug with my race data won't happen again seems like a rare bug didn't happen the first game we did.



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Re: Paradox Grand Strat meets Sci-Fi 4X; Boners Explode

Postby Ricotez » Sun May 15, 2016 10:22 am #176590

The Holy Hegemony of Elk is hegemoning every empire in local space. When I logged out I just finished my 3rd Holy Crusade, conquering two planets that had once belonged to the same empire but split up into their own smaller factions when another empire started kicking their asses. That other empire also suffered heavy losses in that same war, and was left in an incredibly precarious position, ready for another crusade. It was a glorious day for the Holy Star Elk.

I think I actually prefer vassalisation+integration to just good old planet ceding. It takes longer and costs a lot of influence, but you only need 1 war to dominate another empire, you can use the extra time to make your vassal loyal to you before you suddenly have all these xeno pops you need to take into consideration, they will rebuild the infrastructure they lost, and until they fully integrate you get extra fleets that you don't have direct control over (though they'll team up with your own fleets and target the same things you target), but also don't take up fleet slots and don't require upkeep.
MimicFaux wrote:I remember my first time, full of wonderment and excitement playing this game I had heard so many stories about.
on the arrival shuttle, I saw the iconic toolbox on the ground. I clubbed myself in the head with it trying to figure out the controls.
Setting the tool box, now bloodied, back on the table; I went to heal myself with a medkit. I clubbed myself in the head with that too.
I've come a long ways from asking how to switch hands.

Spoiler:
#coderbus wrote:<MrPerson> How many coders does it take to make a lightbulb? Three, one to make it, one to pull the pull request, and one to fix the bugs

Kor wrote:The lifeweb playerbase is primarily old server 2 players so technically its our cancer that invaded them

peoplearestrange wrote:Scared of shadows whispers in their final breath, "/tg/station... goes on the tabl..."

DemonFiren wrote:Please, an Engineer's first response to a problem is "throw it into the singulo".

tedward1337 wrote:Donald Trump is literally what /pol/ would look like as a person

CrunchyCHEEZIT wrote:why does everything on this server have to be a federal fucking issue.

Saegrimr wrote:One guy was running around popping hand tele portals down in the halls before OPs even showed up and got several stranded out on lavaland.
The HoP just toolboxes someone to death out of nowhere, then gets speared by a chemist who saw him murder a guy, then the chemist gets beaten to death because someone else saw him kill the HoP.
Tele-man somehow dies and gets its looted by an atmos tech who managed to use it to send two nuke ops to lavaland, who were then surrounded by several very angry people from earlier and some extra golems on top of it.
Captain dies, gets cloned/revived, lasers the guy holding the disk into crit to take it back.
Some idiot tries to welderbomb the AI hiding out at mining for no discernible reason.
Two permabans and a dayban, i'm expecting a snarky appeal from one of them soon. What the fuck.

ShadowDimentio wrote:I am the problem

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Re: Paradox Grand Strat meets Sci-Fi 4X; Boners Explode

Postby Grazyn » Sun May 15, 2016 10:39 am #176592

The whole sector thing really looks unfinished, when I add planets to sector I feel like I'm mothballing them

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Re: Paradox Grand Strat meets Sci-Fi 4X; Boners Explode

Postby Steelpoint » Sun May 15, 2016 11:49 am #176602

Grazyn wrote:The whole sector thing really looks unfinished, when I add planets to sector I feel like I'm mothballing them


Sectors are pretty bad, sadly you have no choice but to use them.

Best way to mitigate Sectors is to remove planets from a sector to upgrade them and put special buildings then put them back in.
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Re: Paradox Grand Strat meets Sci-Fi 4X; Boners Explode

Postby Incomptinence » Sun May 15, 2016 12:25 pm #176610

Sectors run okay the major caveat is you need a planetary capital building because they can't touch the influence. The mineral, power hubs ethos buildings strategic resource shit are all optional yada yada but without the first capital upgrade it is stuck with shit so bad it only makes one of each resource. Also check they have positive power and mineral income without it stations in the sector shut the fuck down.

Like maybe first level planet admin having an influence cost was a late design choice or something other than min maxing it is the real thing that fucks sectors up, AI is totally oblivious and does it to themselves with sectors too.

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Re: Paradox Grand Strat meets Sci-Fi 4X; Boners Explode

Postby Steelpoint » Sun May 15, 2016 12:55 pm #176618

They need to simply give players some control over the buildings in Sectors.

At minimum allowing you to upgrade the planetary buildings. Just fluff it up that its the only building directly controlled by the central Government.

Perhaps allow players to force buy upgrades for buildings, or build something alltogther, for a big mark up, such as 300% the base cost. So that players can still have some influence over their sector planets WITHOUT having to waste influence to remove and re add the sector.
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Re: Paradox Grand Strat meets Sci-Fi 4X; Boners Explode

Postby Incomptinence » Sun May 15, 2016 2:44 pm #176629

Did some testing with just equivalent fleet points (corvettes are way fucking cheaper too praise the makers) and yeah corvettes are just busted.

Only counter is larger ships bearing missiles, and even a smattering of token point defence will crush that. Like the counters are all fucked up whirlwind missiles aren't capable of overwhelming PD at all like one small slot PD at top tech negates a whirlwind missile and more and mind you this is large on small slot here, the arc weapons just have 100% base accuracy and that is not e fucking nough. Mind you this is with battleship fire rate reducers in support they still eat through it even combined whirlwind battle ship missile destroyer compositions. For defensive modules you just plonk some crystal forged fucking armour in since then you literally have no counters you just have 50% more hull points or more on your little 60+ dodge murder machines.

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Re: Paradox Grand Strat meets Sci-Fi 4X; Boners Explode

Postby Steelpoint » Sun May 15, 2016 2:59 pm #176631

The counter to corvettes is corvetters.
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Re: Paradox Grand Strat meets Sci-Fi 4X; Boners Explode

Postby Ricotez » Sun May 15, 2016 4:24 pm #176655

I've started delving into the corvette meta too, put defensive computers on my corvettes instead of offensive and got them up to 50% evasion, once I unlock advanced combat computers I can probably get that to 60 and even higher if the god damn recruit window will finally give me the right trait on an admiral.

And I'll never understand the AI. I had four fleets with a total of 4-5K that pounded away on his planets, and he sent his 8K fleet all over the damn place in a blind panic but never actually directed it at my own attack fleet. He DID send a 2K fleet in, which got grinded into space dust by my battleships.
MimicFaux wrote:I remember my first time, full of wonderment and excitement playing this game I had heard so many stories about.
on the arrival shuttle, I saw the iconic toolbox on the ground. I clubbed myself in the head with it trying to figure out the controls.
Setting the tool box, now bloodied, back on the table; I went to heal myself with a medkit. I clubbed myself in the head with that too.
I've come a long ways from asking how to switch hands.

Spoiler:
#coderbus wrote:<MrPerson> How many coders does it take to make a lightbulb? Three, one to make it, one to pull the pull request, and one to fix the bugs

Kor wrote:The lifeweb playerbase is primarily old server 2 players so technically its our cancer that invaded them

peoplearestrange wrote:Scared of shadows whispers in their final breath, "/tg/station... goes on the tabl..."

DemonFiren wrote:Please, an Engineer's first response to a problem is "throw it into the singulo".

tedward1337 wrote:Donald Trump is literally what /pol/ would look like as a person

CrunchyCHEEZIT wrote:why does everything on this server have to be a federal fucking issue.

Saegrimr wrote:One guy was running around popping hand tele portals down in the halls before OPs even showed up and got several stranded out on lavaland.
The HoP just toolboxes someone to death out of nowhere, then gets speared by a chemist who saw him murder a guy, then the chemist gets beaten to death because someone else saw him kill the HoP.
Tele-man somehow dies and gets its looted by an atmos tech who managed to use it to send two nuke ops to lavaland, who were then surrounded by several very angry people from earlier and some extra golems on top of it.
Captain dies, gets cloned/revived, lasers the guy holding the disk into crit to take it back.
Some idiot tries to welderbomb the AI hiding out at mining for no discernible reason.
Two permabans and a dayban, i'm expecting a snarky appeal from one of them soon. What the fuck.

ShadowDimentio wrote:I am the problem

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Re: Paradox Grand Strat meets Sci-Fi 4X; Boners Explode

Postby starmute » Sun May 15, 2016 6:09 pm #176658

Interesting stuff. Here's something else that is worth considering. You can put long distance weapons or damage absorbers up front and then put corvettes in back (or the other way around) by absorbing one fleet into another.

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Re: Paradox Grand Strat meets Sci-Fi 4X; Boners Explode

Postby ColonicAcid » Sun May 15, 2016 6:24 pm #176660

wont matter after the first strike.


you fleets homogenise and go all in anyway so range doesnt matter

i actually agree with the 6 that ign gave it, it's lacking alot of things that other 4x offer, it's combat system whilst okay for eu3/ck2 is not okay for a game such as this and the diplomacy is really lacking.

but knowing paradox it will be a great game in 2 years time and at over double it's retail price.

oh well.
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Re: Paradox Grand Strat meets Sci-Fi 4X; Boners Explode

Postby Ricotez » Sun May 15, 2016 6:28 pm #176663

I'll probably be a bit later for tonight's game, if you guys start a new game I'll just slip into an AI empire, and else the Holy Hegemony of Elk can do without me for a little while longer.
MimicFaux wrote:I remember my first time, full of wonderment and excitement playing this game I had heard so many stories about.
on the arrival shuttle, I saw the iconic toolbox on the ground. I clubbed myself in the head with it trying to figure out the controls.
Setting the tool box, now bloodied, back on the table; I went to heal myself with a medkit. I clubbed myself in the head with that too.
I've come a long ways from asking how to switch hands.

Spoiler:
#coderbus wrote:<MrPerson> How many coders does it take to make a lightbulb? Three, one to make it, one to pull the pull request, and one to fix the bugs

Kor wrote:The lifeweb playerbase is primarily old server 2 players so technically its our cancer that invaded them

peoplearestrange wrote:Scared of shadows whispers in their final breath, "/tg/station... goes on the tabl..."

DemonFiren wrote:Please, an Engineer's first response to a problem is "throw it into the singulo".

tedward1337 wrote:Donald Trump is literally what /pol/ would look like as a person

CrunchyCHEEZIT wrote:why does everything on this server have to be a federal fucking issue.

Saegrimr wrote:One guy was running around popping hand tele portals down in the halls before OPs even showed up and got several stranded out on lavaland.
The HoP just toolboxes someone to death out of nowhere, then gets speared by a chemist who saw him murder a guy, then the chemist gets beaten to death because someone else saw him kill the HoP.
Tele-man somehow dies and gets its looted by an atmos tech who managed to use it to send two nuke ops to lavaland, who were then surrounded by several very angry people from earlier and some extra golems on top of it.
Captain dies, gets cloned/revived, lasers the guy holding the disk into crit to take it back.
Some idiot tries to welderbomb the AI hiding out at mining for no discernible reason.
Two permabans and a dayban, i'm expecting a snarky appeal from one of them soon. What the fuck.

ShadowDimentio wrote:I am the problem

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Re: Paradox Grand Strat meets Sci-Fi 4X; Boners Explode

Postby Timbrewolf » Sun May 15, 2016 6:57 pm #176665

>people complaining when large ships with large guns get beat out by small ships with small guns

Rock beats scissor. Large weapons are fucking garbage against small targets. It's like EVE signature tanking. Bigger is not better. If you want to fuck over fleets of corvettes build a ton of destroyers covered in small guns. Holy shit stop being retarded.

This relationship has existed in like...every sci-fi game with space combat like this since Homeworld. Maybe even before that. Small fish gets eaten by bigger fish, which gets eaten by bigger fish, which gets torn to shreds by a pack of small fish because they're too nimble to get caught.

I need to get some more video editing done for another project I'm working on. I was doing some of my electronic repair stuff but it turns out I need to order a specialized piece of kit to get these chips off this motherboard so now I have to place an order on amazon and sit on my thumb for the next 3-4 days fuck. I could host later tonight with the same save file we were playing last night. As always, if a ton of people want a clean cup, we can all shift one seat over to the left and start over.

Also one more thing

Yeah sectors suck. It's the burden of being a conquerer. If you don't want to bother with that shit vassalize people and play as one of the democratic governments. The plus 2/3 core planets helps a lot, and you'll just have punk bitch serfs under your control that you let manage their own shit. Remember the more planets you have the more expensive techs get. Vassalizing empires wont raise your tech prices but still gives you control over their space. The downside is you don't get any kind of mineral or energy credit kickback from vassals for some reason. If there were some way to levy taxes against your vassals it would be fucking perfect.
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Re: Paradox Grand Strat meets Sci-Fi 4X; Boners Explode

Postby ThanatosRa » Sun May 15, 2016 7:33 pm #176672

I keep running into an issue on this one team game where in order to prosper, I need to conquer. Which is very difficult given that fact that I'm Fanatic Individualist/Materialist. Purging/relocating/dealing with the citizenry is against the very fiber of my society.I keep having this weird dance where these small nations I control are slowly conquered, released as vassals, then reintegrated, over and over and over. Good news is that even if I completely released them, The have Zero room to expand between myself and a player alliance member's nation, and that this causes them to have zero resource opportunities to challenge me in any meaningful way at all. Might as well just keep them as vassal nations.
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Re: Paradox Grand Strat meets Sci-Fi 4X; Boners Explode

Postby Timbrewolf » Sun May 15, 2016 7:38 pm #176677

You need to either:

A) Spend influence to quash the separatist factions. Probably not a very good play, as disgruntled citizens will just keep birthing these groups.

B) Raise happiness. Either start researching and building happiness structures on affected planets (shit like the Pleasure Dome, Xeno Zoo, etc.) or passing happiness edicts on planets. Preferably the former, as the latter will eventually expire and 150 base influence cost every ten years isn't as good as a one time 25-50 influence cost.
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Re: Paradox Grand Strat meets Sci-Fi 4X; Boners Explode

Postby K-64 » Sun May 15, 2016 9:00 pm #176728

Or just shove defensive armies on the problematic planets. Let them rebel and once that's been sorted they aren't any bother. Sure the income from the planets will be halted for a while but once the undesirables commit suicide by cop you're all good.

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Re: Paradox Grand Strat meets Sci-Fi 4X; Boners Explode

Postby ThanatosRa » Sun May 15, 2016 9:18 pm #176733

YEa. good point. Lessons to learn for later.
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Re: Paradox Grand Strat meets Sci-Fi 4X; Boners Explode

Postby Incomptinence » Sun May 15, 2016 9:43 pm #176740

An0n3 wrote:>people complaining when large ships with large guns get beat out by small ships with small guns

Rock beats scissor. Large weapons are fucking garbage against small targets. It's like EVE signature tanking. Bigger is not better. If you want to fuck over fleets of corvettes build a ton of destroyers covered in small guns. Holy shit stop being retarded.

I also tested destroyers. There was the same problems as a battleships, when missiles could connect they won, when a teeny tiny small PD mount showed up in inferior numbers they fucking died.

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Re: Paradox Grand Strat meets Sci-Fi 4X; Boners Explode

Postby ThanatosRa » Sun May 15, 2016 10:31 pm #176754

For some reason I feel the need to try to make the Grineer as a race in Stellaris.
my forum gimmick is that no one knows who i am
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Re: Paradox Grand Strat meets Sci-Fi 4X; Boners Explode

Postby ColonicAcid » Sun May 15, 2016 11:45 pm #176774

Today i showed the power of battleships designed with killing corvettes in mind.
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Re: Paradox Grand Strat meets Sci-Fi 4X; Boners Explode

Postby Timbrewolf » Sun May 15, 2016 11:47 pm #176775

Never talk to me or my vassal's son ever again.
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Re: Paradox Grand Strat meets Sci-Fi 4X; Boners Explode

Postby ColonicAcid » Sun May 15, 2016 11:50 pm #176777

ur son looks ugly anyway GRANDAD h4hh4h4h4h4h4h4h4
crack is whack but smacks got your back

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Re: Paradox Grand Strat meets Sci-Fi 4X; Boners Explode

Postby Timbrewolf » Sun May 15, 2016 11:52 pm #176778

Colonic "Over 100 Pops" Acid
Colonic "Refused to accept my migration requests" Acid

Oh we stopped playing immediately after you left because your empire AI decided to immediately leave the federation and start acting like a bitch again. We didn't want to just stomp it out while you were gone.
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Re: Paradox Grand Strat meets Sci-Fi 4X; Boners Explode

Postby Ricotez » Mon May 16, 2016 1:45 am #176793

I kinda hate that your borders keep slowly expanding, I'm right below a Fallen Empire and their opinion of me slowly drops as my border creeps closer and closer.

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MimicFaux wrote:I remember my first time, full of wonderment and excitement playing this game I had heard so many stories about.
on the arrival shuttle, I saw the iconic toolbox on the ground. I clubbed myself in the head with it trying to figure out the controls.
Setting the tool box, now bloodied, back on the table; I went to heal myself with a medkit. I clubbed myself in the head with that too.
I've come a long ways from asking how to switch hands.

Spoiler:
#coderbus wrote:<MrPerson> How many coders does it take to make a lightbulb? Three, one to make it, one to pull the pull request, and one to fix the bugs

Kor wrote:The lifeweb playerbase is primarily old server 2 players so technically its our cancer that invaded them

peoplearestrange wrote:Scared of shadows whispers in their final breath, "/tg/station... goes on the tabl..."

DemonFiren wrote:Please, an Engineer's first response to a problem is "throw it into the singulo".

tedward1337 wrote:Donald Trump is literally what /pol/ would look like as a person

CrunchyCHEEZIT wrote:why does everything on this server have to be a federal fucking issue.

Saegrimr wrote:One guy was running around popping hand tele portals down in the halls before OPs even showed up and got several stranded out on lavaland.
The HoP just toolboxes someone to death out of nowhere, then gets speared by a chemist who saw him murder a guy, then the chemist gets beaten to death because someone else saw him kill the HoP.
Tele-man somehow dies and gets its looted by an atmos tech who managed to use it to send two nuke ops to lavaland, who were then surrounded by several very angry people from earlier and some extra golems on top of it.
Captain dies, gets cloned/revived, lasers the guy holding the disk into crit to take it back.
Some idiot tries to welderbomb the AI hiding out at mining for no discernible reason.
Two permabans and a dayban, i'm expecting a snarky appeal from one of them soon. What the fuck.

ShadowDimentio wrote:I am the problem

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Re: Paradox Grand Strat meets Sci-Fi 4X; Boners Explode

Postby K-64 » Mon May 16, 2016 3:35 am #176809

You should be fine so long as you don't deliberately antagonise them. Just look at what kind of fallen empire they are, and just avoid doing the thing they hate. At least until your military power is good enough to fuck 'em over good

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Re: Paradox Grand Strat meets Sci-Fi 4X; Boners Explode

Postby Steelpoint » Mon May 16, 2016 6:26 am #176832

I love this game but I feel the mid to end game start to fall apart quite rapidly. The early game is a fantastic experience but once you start needing to use Sectors then everything falls apart slowly.

There are many problems I can point out but one thing I really dislike is how wars are often decided on a single battle between both Empires main fleets, and how oft this involves playing a game of cat and mouse chasing the enemy fleet forever.
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Re: Paradox Grand Strat meets Sci-Fi 4X; Boners Explode

Postby Timbrewolf » Mon May 16, 2016 7:19 am #176834

If you stop blobbing all your guys into one gigantic fleet that wont happen.

When playing against another player it's unfortunate but you can't force a warscore on them. You should be able to. Against the AI it's easy to take an equivalent fighting force, break it down into subdivisions, and then send them all out with small invasion forces to conquer a spread of planets all at once. One of your divisions will meet their main force eventually...just retreat. By the time their main force is chasing off the next guy you'll have blitzkrieg'ed a few of their planets and can force a resolution on them.

Unfortunately in PVP the blob is real. As far as I know they never need to relent even if you've got them at 100% warscore. You need to confront their forces head-on to really win against someone who has the luxury of refusing to ever surrender no matter how badly they've been invaded.

The warscore stuff is really good and it presents a lot of interesting ways to win wars...but it all gets pushed aside for WUN VEE WUN ME FAGET space smashes when two players are fighting. Against the AI you can win by blitzing planets or guerilla raids on their infrastructure for example. FIX THIS PARADOX LET ME FORCE A VICTORY ON ANOTHER PLAYER IF MY SCORE GOES HIGH ENOUGH TO CASH IN SOME OF MY DEMANDS. WHEN I SHOW THEM "HEY LOOK I WON ENOUGH POINTS TO SCORE THIS PLANET" THEY SHOULDNT BE ABLE TO SAY "NO YOU DIDNT KEEP FIGHTING ME"
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Re: Paradox Grand Strat meets Sci-Fi 4X; Boners Explode

Postby Incomptinence » Mon May 16, 2016 9:01 am #176840

I DEVISED A POTENTIAL CURE TO THE DISEASE THAT IS HIGH TECH CORVETTES
Presenting the proud Testocules3 not everything shown is needed I will go over the essentials.
Image
The primary thing is shield capacitors to the fucking gills, a token shield large enough to take that much regen, gens to power that regen probably top tier, oh and pd to deal with torpedos. Guns can be shit just don't count on them using any other defence than engines, pd and crystal forged plate.
This abomination has 67.6 or 81.12 shield regen depending on how and if the stupid shield regen boosting module works either way it regenerates more damage that it could possibly deal and slowly attritions down corvettes.


I had another promising candidate had all flak cannons and less regen but stupidly enough while flack cannons are surprisingly decent at killing corvetes maybe due to AOE and it could defeat 1 med 1 small torpedo corvettes it could not defeat 3 small torpedo corvettes. This confirms something I suspected when I tested whirlwind missiles and armoured torpedos against corvettes with 1 small pd each. Whirlwinds don't counter point defence like their tool tip claims at least not top tier, point defence also doesn't give a shit what size class your missile is 1 small torpedo is the same as a medium and probably a large as far as the warhead chipper is concerned. Conversely flak in large slots is basically equivalent or worse to one point defence gun in a small slot.

The entire missile counter system is basically broken PD camps whirlwinds in their tubes once close range small PD evaporates strike craft just as well too making flak and fighters especially pointless.

Destroyers at equivitech can beat corvettes by a sliver UNLESS said corvettes are using armour negating weapons. Ship classes get increasing basic armour as you go up the sizes this is about the only advantage that ever lets them win against high tech corvettes.

Oh and since modules on battleships and battle stations work on all ships all in their radius you can basically have battleship variants to team so your fleets get all the buffs to shields, debuffs to enemy shields, ftl inhibition and debuffs to enemy fire rate at once.


Fuck nope doesn't work at larger fleet counts.

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Re: Paradox Grand Strat meets Sci-Fi 4X; Boners Explode

Postby Ricotez » Mon May 16, 2016 11:22 am #176849

An0n3 wrote:FIX THIS PARADOX LET ME FORCE A VICTORY ON ANOTHER PLAYER IF MY SCORE GOES HIGH ENOUGH TO CASH IN SOME OF MY DEMANDS. WHEN I SHOW THEM "HEY LOOK I WON ENOUGH POINTS TO SCORE THIS PLANET" THEY SHOULDNT BE ABLE TO SAY "NO YOU DIDNT KEEP FIGHTING ME"


If not outright forcing you, there should be serious internal exponentially rising repercussions for keeping a war going after your enemy met their war goals. Like parts of your army and navy going rogue/making a heel face turn so they can save themselves from a leader who will just make them die pointless deaths.
MimicFaux wrote:I remember my first time, full of wonderment and excitement playing this game I had heard so many stories about.
on the arrival shuttle, I saw the iconic toolbox on the ground. I clubbed myself in the head with it trying to figure out the controls.
Setting the tool box, now bloodied, back on the table; I went to heal myself with a medkit. I clubbed myself in the head with that too.
I've come a long ways from asking how to switch hands.

Spoiler:
#coderbus wrote:<MrPerson> How many coders does it take to make a lightbulb? Three, one to make it, one to pull the pull request, and one to fix the bugs

Kor wrote:The lifeweb playerbase is primarily old server 2 players so technically its our cancer that invaded them

peoplearestrange wrote:Scared of shadows whispers in their final breath, "/tg/station... goes on the tabl..."

DemonFiren wrote:Please, an Engineer's first response to a problem is "throw it into the singulo".

tedward1337 wrote:Donald Trump is literally what /pol/ would look like as a person

CrunchyCHEEZIT wrote:why does everything on this server have to be a federal fucking issue.

Saegrimr wrote:One guy was running around popping hand tele portals down in the halls before OPs even showed up and got several stranded out on lavaland.
The HoP just toolboxes someone to death out of nowhere, then gets speared by a chemist who saw him murder a guy, then the chemist gets beaten to death because someone else saw him kill the HoP.
Tele-man somehow dies and gets its looted by an atmos tech who managed to use it to send two nuke ops to lavaland, who were then surrounded by several very angry people from earlier and some extra golems on top of it.
Captain dies, gets cloned/revived, lasers the guy holding the disk into crit to take it back.
Some idiot tries to welderbomb the AI hiding out at mining for no discernible reason.
Two permabans and a dayban, i'm expecting a snarky appeal from one of them soon. What the fuck.

ShadowDimentio wrote:I am the problem

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Re: Paradox Grand Strat meets Sci-Fi 4X; Boners Explode

Postby Incomptinence » Mon May 16, 2016 12:46 pm #176858

Okay so in summation of my tests. The HP boosting modules from the rainbow crystals are the second best defence next to the big engine. Don't bother with AI or psychic combat computers coming of that last bit the second stage of normal combat computers the one that gives 20% more HP and 20 evasion? Absolutely supreme, a corvette expends 2 small slots and its computer has 100% more health and max dodge the rest is generators powering whatever mix of top tier defence negating bullshit you choose. Some configurations of defence with the aforementioned computer while the corvettes are using "better" computers can lead to a counter but you turn around realise how much better that computer is than extra damage or fire rate and they simply don't die fast enough to anything short of easily countered missiles. The larger ships have armour inbuilt, this is worthless armour is worthless the armour ignoring weapons make it so. Shield regeneration can win at low fleet numbers it becomes worse and worse as fleet numbers increase because the no control battles DO feature some focus firing same probably with innate shield regeneration at which point its just a slightly bigger rainbow ass chunk you pair energy for go die corvettes forever.

Destroyers using the computer and crystal bits and same engines are a counter just the in built health and armour advantages of larger classes become utterly fucking pointless. Then cruisers can beat destroyers then battleships lose to cruisers because big surprise the dodge modifiers are just wait wait HOLY SHIT.

Massed tachyon beams beat everything. To an extent which is insane. 8 corvettes barely kill a single tachyon battleship. A mass of them actually has enough range and fire power to annihilate the corvettes as they fly in then pick them off. Man why is this weapon better in numbers the corvettes always do better in a swarm.

So everything is a homogeneous mess of red sonic OCs until the tachyon battleships kill everything with cleansing fire.
Last edited by Incomptinence on Mon May 16, 2016 1:33 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Paradox Grand Strat meets Sci-Fi 4X; Boners Explode

Postby Steelpoint » Mon May 16, 2016 1:08 pm #176862

Basically we wait until Paradox rebalance space combat so its not Corvette Simulator.

For multiplayer I guess you should look to the honor system to NOT have your entire military consist of corvette's.
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Re: Paradox Grand Strat meets Sci-Fi 4X; Boners Explode

Postby Incomptinence » Mon May 16, 2016 1:34 pm #176869

High tech corvettes are destroyed by massed tachyon beams maybe everything short of a shield tank is this is insane.

All the range 60 large mount only weapons do this shit. Like at their max range which would also be almost warp inhibitor range they just engage the corvettes and then these broken as hell little things come in waves and the battleship blob annihilates them. You send the battleship in alone it dies done countered you mass it and the alpha contrary to the bullshit on the forums picks off MANY corvettes before they hit melee with their nasty short range anti armour crap. Like half the corvette force reaches the long range ships almost dead then the rest dies. All forms of tanking short of missile on PD fails for battleships but this shit works somehow. Range does do something you just need to employ the most expensive large mount weapons in the game in an empire bankrupting death fleet before it works. I tested them solo before my tanking experiments and wow I thought they were duds.

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Re: Paradox Grand Strat meets Sci-Fi 4X; Boners Explode

Postby ColonicAcid » Mon May 16, 2016 2:19 pm #176877

classic paradox game.
crack is whack but smacks got your back

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Re: Paradox Grand Strat meets Sci-Fi 4X; Boners Explode

Postby Ricotez » Mon May 16, 2016 2:41 pm #176881

They're gonna tackle a lot of the issues players have with the game in the next 2 months (including godawful sector AI), before they enter the expansion cycle, so that's good.

However, I kinda feel that maybe they should've announced this as an early access kind of thing. Like a final beta phase, in which they mass-test balance by letting minmaxing players toy around with it. Because that's basically what this is, just at full retail price and not tagged as such.
MimicFaux wrote:I remember my first time, full of wonderment and excitement playing this game I had heard so many stories about.
on the arrival shuttle, I saw the iconic toolbox on the ground. I clubbed myself in the head with it trying to figure out the controls.
Setting the tool box, now bloodied, back on the table; I went to heal myself with a medkit. I clubbed myself in the head with that too.
I've come a long ways from asking how to switch hands.

Spoiler:
#coderbus wrote:<MrPerson> How many coders does it take to make a lightbulb? Three, one to make it, one to pull the pull request, and one to fix the bugs

Kor wrote:The lifeweb playerbase is primarily old server 2 players so technically its our cancer that invaded them

peoplearestrange wrote:Scared of shadows whispers in their final breath, "/tg/station... goes on the tabl..."

DemonFiren wrote:Please, an Engineer's first response to a problem is "throw it into the singulo".

tedward1337 wrote:Donald Trump is literally what /pol/ would look like as a person

CrunchyCHEEZIT wrote:why does everything on this server have to be a federal fucking issue.

Saegrimr wrote:One guy was running around popping hand tele portals down in the halls before OPs even showed up and got several stranded out on lavaland.
The HoP just toolboxes someone to death out of nowhere, then gets speared by a chemist who saw him murder a guy, then the chemist gets beaten to death because someone else saw him kill the HoP.
Tele-man somehow dies and gets its looted by an atmos tech who managed to use it to send two nuke ops to lavaland, who were then surrounded by several very angry people from earlier and some extra golems on top of it.
Captain dies, gets cloned/revived, lasers the guy holding the disk into crit to take it back.
Some idiot tries to welderbomb the AI hiding out at mining for no discernible reason.
Two permabans and a dayban, i'm expecting a snarky appeal from one of them soon. What the fuck.

ShadowDimentio wrote:I am the problem

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Re: Paradox Grand Strat meets Sci-Fi 4X; Boners Explode

Postby Incomptinence » Mon May 16, 2016 2:45 pm #176882

Oh my lord I figured out why destroyers are so shit with those weapons when I was testing them just now the fix is retarded. Tried em with tachyons first they fucking blew. Then I had an idea.

You know how fleets run toward each other fast as they can when they engage? Well if you don't have improved engines on your destroyers when using these weapons... they are slower so they are at a range advantage longer.
It works it fucking works. It didn't matter for battleships because they are so fucking slow but for tachyon lance destroyers oh my god salvages the entire concept against the cornvettes. You become better at long range combat by being slower let that soak in. It's the difference between a landside victory and a landslide defeat. Conversely if you want to get into close range sooner don't deploy the subspace inhibitor it will slow down you enemy making you take more damage.

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Re: Paradox Grand Strat meets Sci-Fi 4X; Boners Explode

Postby ColonicAcid » Mon May 16, 2016 2:48 pm #176883

Yes its absolutely ridiculous that range even exists considering the entire combat systems is: Fire shots whilst moving into super close range and then orbit the enemy.

There is a system there where range does matter, longer ranged weapons fire first compared to closer ranged weapons, but that just doesn't matter in the long run because guess what everyone decides to just hug it out for the rest of the fight.

Pls fix pdox.
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Re: Paradox Grand Strat meets Sci-Fi 4X; Boners Explode

Postby Incomptinence » Mon May 16, 2016 2:52 pm #176885

Massed range on the slowest piece of shit you can muster matters it fucking annihilates wave after wave of tiny corvettes exploding.

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Re: Paradox Grand Strat meets Sci-Fi 4X; Boners Explode

Postby dezzmont » Mon May 16, 2016 4:18 pm #176897

Perhaps giving ships a combat doctrine when they are designed so they will attempt to move to a certain range would make fights better. Range is actually an interesting system in space combat games because it helps force a combined arms strategy, but if it doesnt function well it adds nothing. Making it so you got screens and snipers and interceptors trying to force enemy ships to move into or stay at a certain range makes things interesting, and having to chose how your ship prioritizes target selection and what distance it stays at would have interesting outcomes. Imagine interceptors moving to close in on enemy ships trying to blast through your picket swarms to hit your snipers.

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Re: Paradox Grand Strat meets Sci-Fi 4X; Boners Explode

Postby srifenbyxp » Mon May 16, 2016 5:22 pm #176914

So now we make 100+ zerg ships to swarm battleships?
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Re: Paradox Grand Strat meets Sci-Fi 4X; Boners Explode

Postby Timbrewolf » Mon May 16, 2016 6:01 pm #176922

Ayyyyyyyy when's mahvel?
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Re: Paradox Grand Strat meets Sci-Fi 4X; Boners Explode

Postby Laharl Monthy » Mon May 16, 2016 6:17 pm #176923


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Re: Paradox Grand Strat meets Sci-Fi 4X; Boners Explode

Postby Lumbermancer » Mon May 16, 2016 8:10 pm #176942

Firecage told me Stellaris runs better than EU4, so I decided to give it a try. And yep, it runs pretty damn good, even at fastest time speed. My shit dual core didn't even break sweat, temperature wise.

Anywho, I have not read any of the dev diares beforehand, so I'm going in blind. My water Empire of Rl'yeh has already two colonies, and made contact with some scrubby insects who decided to ask for embassy, then send it away shortly after.

Anyway. Is there some sort of overview screen where I could see all suitable colonies and mining locations? Like in Distant Worlds. To see possible mines you have to hover above system, but you can't see colony locations I think?

Also I'm not sure if I like how the game is viewed, the inability to scroll back and move screen freely through the galaxy. But I guess because you can only view one system at once, and galaxy view is simplified, contributes to how well the game runs.

Are the policies like focuses in EU4? Can I turn them on or off at will? Or am I stuck with one for a period?
aka Schlomo Gaskin aka Guru Meditation aka Copyright Alright aka Topkek McHonk aka Le Rouge
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Re: Paradox Grand Strat meets Sci-Fi 4X; Boners Explode

Postby Timbrewolf » Mon May 16, 2016 8:11 pm #176943

You can either hold down alt to show an overlay that reveals everything you know about every planet, or you can just check the box in the lower right corner menus.

Grey planet means the system contains a planet that you haven't surveyed yet.
Red means the system has a planet you can't colonize (yet).
Yellow means the system contains a planet you could colonize, but it's kinda shit (low hab%)
Green means the system contains a planet you could colonize that's ideal (80%+ hab)

Colonizing a planet right requires both a race with a suitability for that planet type, and the tech for that planet type.

Say you start out as a race with Ocean suitability, and then conquer a race with Desert suitability. This doesn't open up all desert worlds to your empire for colonization, you still need the Desert Colony tech. Then you can plunk that second race down on it and be happy. If you fuck up and put your primary race on it, they'll be able to live there but be incredibly unhappy due to low habitability. Watch as they all move away (but crowded members of your second race move in).

Like I said, just having the Desert Colony tech doesn't make your non-desert-suitable races suddenly like living there either. You can enact terraforming projects on worlds, however, to move them in a direction towards planets your races are suitable for one jump at a time. This requires the terraforming tech, requires you to build a terraforming station in orbit over the planet, requires terraforming liquids and gasses (strategic resources you can find on the map) requires the Colony tech of the type of planet you want to turn it into, and takes a lot of time.

EDIT: Highly advisable if you want to terraform a planet to do so BEFORE you land any colonists on it. They all get -100% happyness while the planet they are on is being terraformed. Apparently people hate that shit. Guaranteed revolts and migration if you do that. Option B, do it, but enslave everyone on the planet anyway. Fuck 'em. Option C, send a bunch of robots.
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Re: Paradox Grand Strat meets Sci-Fi 4X; Boners Explode

Postby Incomptinence » Mon May 16, 2016 10:47 pm #176989

So most atrocious corvette is the wormhole corvette, the lack of needing to pay power for a drive system (corvettes biggest downside with other methods) allows 3 crystal plate and keeping your top tier weapons.

Crystal forged plate and the defence 2 computer is the difference between a 300 health 60% dodge machine and a 600-720 health 60% dodge machine it amplifies the entire corvette problem and like corvettes is cheap as shit to field so you out fleet points the enemy then even my long range counter can't deal with it. All class counters can work as intended just everyone mounts boredom crystals because more hull is the only defence not negated by some small slot shit show.

Flak and fighters as said before and I must repeat are worthless.

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Re: Paradox Grand Strat meets Sci-Fi 4X; Boners Explode

Postby Ricotez » Tue May 17, 2016 12:51 am #177008

>one of my science ships nearly gets hit by random mass driver projectiles
>apparently the projectiles were fired from another galaxy and have been travelling through space all that time
>mfw even aliens who are milllions of lightyears away and lived billions of years ago hate me
MimicFaux wrote:I remember my first time, full of wonderment and excitement playing this game I had heard so many stories about.
on the arrival shuttle, I saw the iconic toolbox on the ground. I clubbed myself in the head with it trying to figure out the controls.
Setting the tool box, now bloodied, back on the table; I went to heal myself with a medkit. I clubbed myself in the head with that too.
I've come a long ways from asking how to switch hands.

Spoiler:
#coderbus wrote:<MrPerson> How many coders does it take to make a lightbulb? Three, one to make it, one to pull the pull request, and one to fix the bugs

Kor wrote:The lifeweb playerbase is primarily old server 2 players so technically its our cancer that invaded them

peoplearestrange wrote:Scared of shadows whispers in their final breath, "/tg/station... goes on the tabl..."

DemonFiren wrote:Please, an Engineer's first response to a problem is "throw it into the singulo".

tedward1337 wrote:Donald Trump is literally what /pol/ would look like as a person

CrunchyCHEEZIT wrote:why does everything on this server have to be a federal fucking issue.

Saegrimr wrote:One guy was running around popping hand tele portals down in the halls before OPs even showed up and got several stranded out on lavaland.
The HoP just toolboxes someone to death out of nowhere, then gets speared by a chemist who saw him murder a guy, then the chemist gets beaten to death because someone else saw him kill the HoP.
Tele-man somehow dies and gets its looted by an atmos tech who managed to use it to send two nuke ops to lavaland, who were then surrounded by several very angry people from earlier and some extra golems on top of it.
Captain dies, gets cloned/revived, lasers the guy holding the disk into crit to take it back.
Some idiot tries to welderbomb the AI hiding out at mining for no discernible reason.
Two permabans and a dayban, i'm expecting a snarky appeal from one of them soon. What the fuck.

ShadowDimentio wrote:I am the problem

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Re: Paradox Grand Strat meets Sci-Fi 4X; Boners Explode

Postby Zilenan91 » Tue May 17, 2016 1:19 am #177013

I love this game so much but it has so many problems, like fucking federations

I built up this 20k strength Federation fleet and when it got handed over to the AI it instantly deleted it and I got invaded and none of the 5 other AIs in my federation helped me so I just quit.
Collectivism is overpowered in a good way (God I love genocide)
Corvettes are overpowered because a full fleet of evasion corvettes can defeat a fleet with over double the military strength it has

Also some of the events are great, if too frequent. I uplifted three primitive nations through observation posts, and all three times I had a rogue agent trying to stop me, only to be blown up by precise orbital bombardment. It was a really fucking cool event the first time but the 2nd and 3rd times got old. Funnily enough the 2nd and 3rd times happened in the same empire, and the 2nd one started right before I uplifted them and carried over into the 3rd uplifting rather than me gaining a whole new agent.

I need to stress just how bad the AI is. There was around 7-8 AI nations who were RIGHT NEXT to a sentient AI rebellion and not a single one was fighting them. I had to declare war on 4 empires just to go fight the AIs, only to be unable to get my gene modded armies there because transport ships can't get more advanced warp drives. Immediately after I kill the sentient AI fleets one of the AIs I declared war with sent a 15k fleet to a ringworld I'd taken from a Fallen Empire rather than sending it to fight the sentient AI rebellion that at that point had 20 systems in their control, so yeah the AI is real bad.
Spoiler:
Zilenan91 wrote:
Just replace both their arms with chainsaws.

HAVE FUN ESCAPING NOW WITH NO ARMS

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Re: Paradox Grand Strat meets Sci-Fi 4X; Boners Explode

Postby Timbrewolf » Tue May 17, 2016 5:58 am #177058

They're dumb but can be manipulated.

1) Embassy up
2) Look at their politics and see who they are rival'ing
3) Rival their rival
4) Wait a bit, send alliance request when the time is ripe
5) After a bit of waiting, remove embassy and rival, find next diplo target and repeat.
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Re: Paradox Grand Strat meets Sci-Fi 4X; Boners Explode

Postby Steelpoint » Tue May 17, 2016 6:55 am #177061

Not being able to upgrade transport ships engines is horrible and almost screwed over my war plans. Fortunately I was able to ruin the enemy empires infustructure and one of their two main fleets to the point where they surrendered, but the point that now its physically impossible for me to move my main ground army to another arm of the galaxy is really annoying.

Also I find it amusing but also stupid how its far easier for me to subjugate a entire empire (that holds more planets and population than me) under my will via vassalage than it is for me to take three planets they own out of the 25+ they own, three shitty planets mind you.

----

On a final note, is there any reason to NOT just use Wormhole Generators as your FTL method? The only constraint to Wormholes is building Wormhole generators (which the AI seldom attacks). In addition from what I can tell the ONLY way to get the end game Jump Drive Engines (aside from blowing up Fallen Empire ships) is to research the level three Wormhole Generators, then you get the ability to get the Jump Drive tech to appear in your research rotation. Whereas neither the Warp Drive nor the Hyperlane techs lead to a end game engine tech.
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Re: Paradox Grand Strat meets Sci-Fi 4X; Boners Explode

Postby Grazyn » Tue May 17, 2016 8:03 am #177071

Apparently you can upgrade transports if you set automatic design for your ships

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Re: Paradox Grand Strat meets Sci-Fi 4X; Boners Explode

Postby srifenbyxp » Tue May 17, 2016 3:23 pm #177128

Zilenan91 wrote:I love this game so much but it has so many problems, like fucking federations

I built up this 20k strength Federation fleet and when it got handed over to the AI it instantly deleted it and I got invaded and none of the 5 other AIs in my federation helped me so I just quit.
Collectivism is overpowered in a good way (God I love genocide)
Corvettes are overpowered because a full fleet of evasion corvettes can defeat a fleet with over double the military strength it has

Also some of the events are great, if too frequent. I uplifted three primitive nations through observation posts, and all three times I had a rogue agent trying to stop me, only to be blown up by precise orbital bombardment. It was a really fucking cool event the first time but the 2nd and 3rd times got old. Funnily enough the 2nd and 3rd times happened in the same empire, and the 2nd one started right before I uplifted them and carried over into the 3rd uplifting rather than me gaining a whole new agent.

I need to stress just how bad the AI is. There was around 7-8 AI nations who were RIGHT NEXT to a sentient AI rebellion and not a single one was fighting them. I had to declare war on 4 empires just to go fight the AIs, only to be unable to get my gene modded armies there because transport ships can't get more advanced warp drives. Immediately after I kill the sentient AI fleets one of the AIs I declared war with sent a 15k fleet to a ringworld I'd taken from a Fallen Empire rather than sending it to fight the sentient AI rebellion that at that point had 20 systems in their control, so yeah the AI is real bad.



I just force people into vassalage, why go through all the trouble of making a federation when you can put all xenos scum on a leash?
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