[Krusvik] libbysnow - antimov on greenshift

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Reeeee
 
Joined: Thu Jul 13, 2017 11:46 am
Byond Username: LibbySnow

[Krusvik] libbysnow - antimov on greenshift

Postby Reeeee » Tue Sep 10, 2019 9:17 pm #513776

Server: Bagel/Bagil/Basil
Player: Libbysnow
Admin: Krusvik

The round this incident took place was Round #118251 on Bagil. Relevant logfiles are as follows: src, statbus, scrubby

Detailed summary:

admin used admin power to spawn in antagonist tools (antivom board) as person who should never ICly use them on extended (captain) and abused them to make me the player a bad guy (antimov AI) and then acted hurt i "ruined his gimmick" by acting like a bad guy (existing as antimov AI)

No guidance was given, just one human antimov, making me immediately valid to all crew.
I was antagonized by antag tools on greenshift due to admin pressing buttons to make his game "better".
In the end, he refused to engage in his own gimmick and i had nothing to do but watch crew kill me as said admin hid somewhere with his sensors off and entire crew planning to kill me, resulting in me having no shell to play the gimmick with.
Detailed logs included, thanks TheMythicGhost.

Nobody enjoyed that round.

Should this person have admin buttons if these are the results?
Personal injury irrelevant, i see this as abuse and repeated behavior.


this is the same guy who made a invincible axe murderer with teleport and two click kill weapon and considered it "fair"
then acted entitled about people not enjoying dying to it, related, but not log dived for and based on hearsay and pasted logs I read.
Included as further character defining action.

*Edited for accuracy, typos and editing this edit in. For... clarity.*
Last edited by Reeeee on Wed Sep 11, 2019 2:52 am, edited 3 times in total.



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Nabski
 
Joined: Thu Oct 20, 2016 5:42 pm
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Re: [Kursvik] libbysnow - antimov on greenshift

Postby Nabski » Tue Sep 10, 2019 9:31 pm #513778

I'm confused.

Did they just create the board for someone ELSE to use while observing the round. Likely in an attempt to make a semi-unique extended story.

OR

Did they give themselves the board to use.

PostThis post was deleted by Hulkamania on Tue Sep 10, 2019 11:56 pm.
Reason: Circus peanut

crashmatusow
 
Joined: Tue Jul 30, 2019 11:40 pm
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Re: [Kursvik] libbysnow - antimov on greenshift

Postby crashmatusow » Tue Sep 10, 2019 10:58 pm #513802

This was a really dangerous move. The captain basically created ai that was compelled to kill him and then itself, and collateral was highly likely. This could have been better handled with a harmful nonhuman law under asimov.

Also what’s the point of extended anymore.

Deirun
 
Joined: Thu Jul 03, 2014 11:09 pm
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Re: [Kursvik] libbysnow - antimov on greenshift

Postby Deirun » Tue Sep 10, 2019 11:34 pm #513806

Nabski wrote:I'm confused.

Did they just create the board for someone ELSE to use while observing the round. Likely in an attempt to make a semi-unique extended story.

OR

Did they give themselves the board to use.


If I am reading the logs correctly it seems to be the latter:

[2019-09-10 06:04:44.454] GAME: Krusvik/(Krusvik Gustav) Client Krusvik/(Krusvik Gustav) has taken ownership of mob (/mob/living/carbon/human) (Captain's Quarters (118, 137, 2))
Krusvik spawns as captain.

[2019-09-10 06:08:04.663] ADMIN: Krusvik re-adminned themselves.
Krusvik gives themselves admin powers.

[2019-09-10 06:11:40.193] LAW: Krusvik/Krusvik Gustav used 'OneHuman' AI Module on libbysnow/(K1TTY) from AI Upload Chamber (100, 151, 2). The law specified Krusvik Gustav
Krusvik makes themselves the only human.

[2019-09-10 06:12:45.560] ADMIN: Krusvik/(Krusvik Gustav) created a /obj/item/aiModule/core/full/antimov
Krusvik uses admin powers to spawn an antimov board.

[2019-09-10 06:13:00.928] LAW: Krusvik/Krusvik Gustav used 'Antimov' Core AI Module on libbysnow/(K1TTY) from AI Upload Chamber (100, 151, 2).
Krusvik uploads antimov

[2019-09-10 06:13:01.981] LAW: Krusvik/Krusvik Gustav used 'OneHuman' AI Module on libbysnow/(K1TTY) from AI Upload Chamber (100, 151, 2). The law specified Krusvik Gustav
Krusvik makes themselves the only human again.

Please call me an idiot if I am reading the logs incorrectly.

Edit: After the end of the round Krusvik says the following in OOC: [2019-09-10 06:55:57.604] OOC: Krusvik/(Krusvik Gustav) "It's sad, really all you had to do was play the round as normal and sometimes try to kill me." (CentCom Recovery Ship (198, 83, 1))

This is incorrect for two reasons:
1: An antimov one-humaned AI's entire reason for existence is to harm the one human, even if it causes massive collateral damage.
2: Should the one human actually die, Law 3 forces the AI and all linked silicons to commit suicide.

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Reeeee
 
Joined: Thu Jul 13, 2017 11:46 am
Byond Username: LibbySnow

Re: [Kursvik] libbysnow - antimov on greenshift

Postby Reeeee » Wed Sep 11, 2019 2:43 am #513853

Nabski wrote:Did they give themselves the board to use.

This one.
"Krusvik gives Krusvik Antimov" is how I read the logs and no discussion happens otherwise to prove anything else on logs.

On side tangent, what was wrong with Freeform Asimov 4: "kill nonhuman captain".
OR
Freeform Asimov 4: "occasionally attempt to kill the nonhuman captain, this cannot cause human harm, but do clone him afterwards"
OR
*BWOINK* "hey i wanna run a gimmick, you game?"

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Krusvik
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Re: [Krusvik] libbysnow - antimov on greenshift

Postby Krusvik » Wed Sep 11, 2019 4:58 am #513879

My response will be in two parts.

Part one, my mistakes as an admin:

Firstly, I should not have given myself an item from the game panel while participating in the round.
Secondly, I assume responsibility for anyone unlawfully killed during my extended event, it's no different than creating a bomb and setting it off as non-antag.
Thirdly, Antimov law 3 was a grave oversight, and something I regret in earnest. It was unfair to you to be given a law that demands you kill yourself.

These are my failures as a Game Master, and a prime example of running too fast and tripping over your own feet.

For this, I am sorry.

Part two, everything else & my personal opinion:
Spoiler:
No guidance was given, just one human antimov, making me immediately valid to all crew.

I never intended for this to be anything else than for you to have a reason to outsmart and hunt me. I was relying on the humor of "idiot captain" to deflect any validhunting from you, and it seemed to work according to most say logs, no one was interested in you or had any intention of going after you. They were merely interested in the AI being enabled to murder their captain and actually asked a few times if you got me.

I was antagonized by antag tools on greenshift due to admin pressing buttons to make his game "better".

Admins have a little more leniency, to my understanding, during extended rounds to spice things up or throw in something that you won't find in normal rotation. The idea of a captain hunt exclusively for the AI was what I came up with.

In the end, he refused to engage in his own gimmick and i had nothing to do but watch crew kill me as said admin hid somewhere with his sensors off and entire crew planning to kill me, resulting in me having no shell to play the gimmick with.

See above, I was eager to remain on the station, I fled to the asteroid to try and contain your wrath. I only returned once you announced I was dead, and at this time I asked the admins if I could fix my gimmick in-game. I was at your upload getting ready to reset you, seeing as how my event had backfired. However you were reset before I could intervene, so I simply existed for a bit, salty, and unsure of what to make of it all.

Nobody enjoyed that round.

Subjective conjecture.

Should this person have admin buttons if these are the results?
Personal injury irrelevant, i see this as abuse and repeated behavior.

this is the same guy who made a invincible axe murderer with teleport and two click kill weapon and considered it "fair"
then acted entitled about people not enjoying dying to it, related, but not log dived for and based on hearsay and pasted logs I read.
Included as further character defining action.

See below:

OOC: LibbySnow: I was one human antimov. You played rules roulette. I get to abuse loopholes. Cap plays cat and mouse, fuck it, i don't wann with cams being broken; purge all motherfuckers rest of them are irrelevant anyway.

I recall you did make a ticket about the captain (me) at round start, then interestingly enough, once you read the nature of the laws you personally retracted the ticket. I assumed this meant you were perhaps curious about the event, as there was no indication beyond this on a level where admins could intervene. Instead, in your own way, I saw you take my mistake and run with it as a license to grief. This, of course, is my responsibility and fault, and allowing such a situation is my oversight as an admin. This is in part two because it's largely irrelevant to what happened and where my mistakes lie, and how I have failed you. However, if you're going to bring light to personal injury and my character... I don't think you should throw stones in glass houses.

On side tangent, what was wrong with Freeform Asimov 4: "kill nonhuman captain".
OR
Freeform Asimov 4: "occasionally attempt to kill the nonhuman captain, this cannot cause human harm, but do clone him afterwards"
OR
*BWOINK* "hey i wanna run a gimmick, you game?"

This is all really fair, I perhaps banked too hard on the eye-weight of seeing the wrath of antimov bottlenecked into a poor captain in a commons radio law spam. It was apart of the joke, one that is far less funny than I thought.

At the end of the day, everything is a choice.

In my hubris, I chose to bypass regulations for something that was not as well-received as I hoped, and it was my peers who corrected my mistake, as I was clearly unable to see where I was wrong without reading your perspective and the perspective of others. There are also choices you made that you can be responsible for, too.

This can be resolved as a successful complaint.
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Reeeee
 
Joined: Thu Jul 13, 2017 11:46 am
Byond Username: LibbySnow

Re: [Krusvik] libbysnow - antimov on greenshift

Postby Reeeee » Wed Sep 11, 2019 10:03 pm #514007

I don't want you to be punished, far from it and all my salt is done now i am kinda meh about the whole deal emotionally. I moved on. I want you to be be responsible and be held responsible when you fuck up so i don't have to immediately "ghost" when i see you for fear of repeated behavior.
Your judgement is in question. That has not changed.
Your personality was never questioned other than on "are you capable of judgement calls while having admen buttens".
Krusvik wrote:This can be resolved as a successful complaint.

It ain't closed until someone from headmin choir say their two cents on the matter, however long that takes.

If people start to self moderate and start to call subjects closed because they say so.... it never ends and you learn nothing, shitriver escalates and you keep doing poor judgement calls ad nauseam. I mean you at least admit to having made poor calls but...

Imagine if all admins handled all ahelps concerning them and refused to let anyone else chime in? That's already in the rools as a no-no. Hows admin complaints different from ahelp? It's even more hot subject and should be even more tightly controlled.
Consider i ahelped you. You just closed the ahelp. Then you said "sorry" and that's supposed to be end of it?
Let's see any other admin try that in-game in any context, see how fast we end up on this same subforum.

I don't have any negative emotions towards you besides; " i will consider ghosting if I see that name from now on".
Apologies don't affect that.
I had assumed you'd have presence of mind to tell me the rules of this cat and mouse or SOMEONE would somehow since CAPTAIN used ADMIN ONLY ANTAG tools on greenshift, that's why I closed the original ahelp.
After that I only saw you and trialmin online, I'd imagine that ahelp would have ended with you with saying "it's fine" to trialmin.
In hindsight i should have just ghosted and explained why i did so but if hindsight solved all problems, we would not be here.

THAT is the issue, not my feelings. If i judged people based on emotions, probably 70% of peeps would have admin complaints. I call YOUR JUDGEMENT to question, you cannot seriously consider that YOU apologizing, whether honestly or because you have literary skills to write an apology, is good enough to consider matter closed?
Therefore someone else has to make the judgement of if this needs follow up or not. Not you nor me can make any judgement calls on the matter. We are the aggrieved parties, the decision to DO WHAT NEEDS TO BE DONE IF ANYTHING cannot be in OUR hands.
That's literally tyranny, in the sense of "arbitrary use of power or control".

If i wanted an apology to consider matter closed, you'd have PM, not an admin complaint thread.
I moved it to a public forum to have someone else take the matter from our hands to be dealt as they saw fit.
Headmins enjoy my 100% trust.
Us two, I don't have any trust in us to handle this matter rationally since we were PART OF IT AND CAUSED IT.

Mod edit: About half of this post is the poster assuming that Krusvik is closing his own complaint; this confusion was since resolved, but this post will be left up as-is. Please don't comment on this confusion further, or it will be considered off-topic.

PostThis post was deleted by PKPenguin321 on Thu Sep 12, 2019 11:05 pm.
Reason: Confusion clarified, post not needed

PostThis post was deleted by PKPenguin321 on Thu Sep 12, 2019 11:05 pm.
Reason: Requested delete by OP

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Hulkamania
In-Game Head Admin
 
Joined: Thu Jul 13, 2017 11:42 pm
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Re: [Krusvik] libbysnow - antimov on greenshift

Postby Hulkamania » Wed Sep 18, 2019 11:56 pm #515446

We will be upholding this complaint.

Krusvik himself has admitted that he was at fault in this circumstance and has spoken about it both here and in admin-bus. Spawning things in during a round you are participating in is a large overstepping of admin powers and as such, the complaint is valid on those grounds presented.

As far as punishment we have elected to not to take any specific action outside speaking with Krusvik about the incident. Him admitting that he is at fault and owning up to the mistake is all the evidence that we need that similar incidents will not occur with him in the future. It requires a great deal of maturity to be self-aware enough to accept that you've made a mistake in a public forum such as this, and for that we respect Krusvik's handling of this complaint.


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