[Delaron] Unprompted Dropping of Frogs and Making them Hostile

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Deadeagle
Joined: Thu Mar 21, 2019 6:27 am
Byond Username: Deadeagle

[Delaron] Unprompted Dropping of Frogs and Making them Hostile

Post by Deadeagle » #658477

When and where this incident occured (Game Server, forums, Discord): Manuel
Byond account and character name OR Discord name: Deadeagle/TateBrier/Deadeagle#1490
Admin: Delaron
Round ID: 193953
https://tgstation13.org/parsed-logs/man ... nd-193953/
https://scrubby.melonmesa.com/round/193953

General Context:
Miriam Hornet, Tate Brier (me), and Ryan Johnson are in the Icebox maintenance kitchen. We're cooking random items, and generally chatting. A few minutes in, Delaron drops something like 30 frogs, 4 monkies, and a few random medbots via supply pod into the area. None of us asked for this, there was no communication, no prompt, or other reason he might do this. For at least a little while we basically just ignored the drop because nothing was hostile, and it was just annoying at best. At some point I left, I think to bring someone else who was injured to medbay, then found out Miriam was nearly killed by the frogs who, from their perspective, randomly aggro'd. Neither of us ahelped at the time for varying reasons. For them, when I asked, it was mostly an aversion to ahelping in general. Not uncommon. For me, I wasn't sure if there was a mechanic I wasn't sure about, or if the "event" was in good faith and just misunderstood, such as not intending for them to attack. Upon inspecting the logs, however, that's clearly not the case.

Looking at the logs clearly shows Delaron spawning a ton of mobs, then explicitly possessing them in order to cause aggression. At best this is a VERY bad event, and at worst, its basically using admin tools to grief, given there was no fluff attached to it, but simply a mob drop. The thought crossed my mind that they may have mistaken one of us for another character, like Marianne who explicitly has their obsession with frogs as a funny character trait, but even if that were the case, I don't think that would excuse dropping and agressing mobs with no warning.

As one last thing - even if even if such behaviour were to be allowed, its probably just worth noting that admins should be "reading the room". I think its fairly obvious none of the three in the maintenance kitchen had any plans to draw attention to ourselves, and just wanted to have a quiet bit to simply cook and chat. Around this time, a month ago from posting, I had already noticed a pattern whenever Delaron was on, and that was that he tended to hit admin buttons a lot. To the point where for 2-3 consecutive rounds, he couldn't just let rounds play out. So I started just avoiding and not playing rounds that he was on. I realize this part can be blamed on me, mostly for not reporting or expressing my opinion on it earlier, but oh well. There's a lot of factors that kill players desire to ahelp, report, or complain, and the behaviour is already discouraged by the offical admin guidelines:
"Don't spam sounds and events. If you're queuing sounds one after the other, or if you're running an event every day, you're doing it too often."


Search phrases:
Attack.txt
[2022-11-08 16:52:13.787] ATTACK: Delaron/(frog) attacked no key/(Monkey (911)) (NEWHP: 100) (Aft Port Maintenance (77,85,4))
^ First attack
[2022-11-08 16:53:03.809] ATTACK: Delaron/(frog) attacked no key/(frog) (NEWHP: 15) (Aft Port Maintenance (77,87,4))
^ Attack that triggers frog aggression
[2022-11-08 16:53:06.674] ATTACK: *no key*/(frog) attacked MiriamHorn/(Miriam Hornet) (NEWHP: 99) (Aft Port Maintenance (76,87,4))
**Snipping ~20 lines of frog attacks + irrelevant logs
[2022-11-08 16:53:14.784] ATTACK: no key/(frog) attacked MiriamHorn/(Miriam Hornet) (NEWHP: 0.3) (Aft Port Maintenance (80,88,4))
^ Beat to just above crit within 15 seconds. Frogs do 5 damage per hit.

- The frogs then go on to kill the medbots he spawned and attack the monkies.
- From player accounts I genuinely couldn't think of why the frogs would have aggroed, but now this makes sense. To replicate, spawn 2 frogs and a human. Take control of one of the frogs and attack another frog. The frog will now attack anything in sight that is not a frog. They will not retaliate against other frogs.

Game.txt
[2022-11-08 16:38:59.692] ADMIN: Delaron/(Delaron Ereborn) created 15ea /mob/living/simple_animal/hostile/retaliate/frog
[2022-11-08 16:39:35.103] ADMIN: Delaron/(Delaron Ereborn) created 15ea /mob/living/simple_animal/hostile/retaliate/frog
[2022-11-08 16:40:00.246] ADMIN: Delaron/(Delaron Ereborn) created 15ea /mob/living/simple_animal/hostile/retaliate/frog
[2022-11-08 16:42:48.768] ADMIN: Delaron/(Delaron Ereborn) created a /mob/living/carbon/human/species/monkey/angry
**Snipped 10 minutes of not much happening. There probably was a pod log on full logs, but as far as I know it is censored on parsed logs.
[2022-11-08 16:52:10.862] ADMIN: Delaron/(Delaron Ereborn) stuffed Delaron into frog.

Some other weird logs:
[2022-11-08 16:16:16.478] ADMIN: Delaron/(Delaron Ereborn) created 10ea /mob/living/carbon/human/species/monkey/angry
[2022-11-08 16:16:35.693] ADMIN: Delaron/(Delaron Ereborn) created 10ea /mob/living/carbon/human/species/monkey/angry
[2022-11-08 16:16:42.915] ADMIN: Delaron/(Delaron Ereborn) created 10ea /mob/living/carbon/human/species/monkey/angry
[2022-11-08 16:37:02.751] ADMIN: Delaron/(Delaron Ereborn) created a /mob/living/carbon/human/species/monkey/angry
[2022-11-08 16:37:28.829] ADMIN: Delaron/(Delaron Ereborn) created a /mob/living/carbon/human/species/monkey/angry
[2022-11-08 16:37:53.807] ADMIN: Delaron/(Delaron Ereborn) created a /mob/living/carbon/human/species/monkey/angry
[2022-11-08 16:41:42.960] ADMIN: Delaron/(Delaron Ereborn) created a /mob/living/carbon/human/species/monkey/angry
[2022-11-08 16:41:58.942] ADMIN: Delaron/(Delaron Ereborn) created a /mob/living/carbon/human/species/monkey/angry
[2022-11-08 16:41:59.579] ADMIN: Delaron/(Delaron Ereborn) created a /mob/living/carbon/human/species/monkey/angry
[2022-11-08 16:41:59.888] ADMIN: Delaron/(Delaron Ereborn) created a /mob/living/carbon/human/species/monkey/angry
[2022-11-08 16:42:17.261] ADMIN: Delaron/(Delaron Ereborn) deleted the monkey (246) at Bay #4 (204,56,1)
[2022-11-08 16:42:32.758] ADMIN: Delaron/(Delaron Ereborn) deleted the monkey (810) at Bay #4 (203,55,1)
[2022-11-08 16:42:42.570] ADMIN: Delaron/(Delaron Ereborn) deleted the monkey (181) at Bay #4 (202,56,1)
[2022-11-08 16:42:46.696] ADMIN: Delaron/(Delaron Ereborn) deleted the monkey (823) at Bay #4 (204,54,1)
[2022-11-08 16:42:48.768] ADMIN: Delaron/(Delaron Ereborn) created a /mob/living/carbon/human/species/monkey/angry

- Delaron only deleted 4 monkies despite spawning a total of 48 monkies. 4 batches of 10, 8 single spawns. I don't recall nearly that many being podded in, so probably not all were used for this. In fact it looks like the 4 monkies left after the 8 single spawns might have been the only ones he sent, judging by time stamps. That said it IS hard to tell since in game there were a ton of mobs stacked on, and the logs don't say where the first 30 were spawned. Those monkies were spawned about 10-15 minutes before the pod incident.
- One of the monkies had a a justice helmet, or something roughly like that, for some reason. Couldn't find a log for that but I'm 99% sure. Not really sure why though.

Notes: Several commands are censored on parsed logs, including supply pod related ones, so far as I've been able to tell. Other commands that are censored (I think) are teleport and get. I'd make the argument that some of these are pretty suspect at best to be censored, given that they don't protect privacy, and are fairly abusable, especially if you know they're hidden. But that's outside the scope of the complaint.
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Timberpoes
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Re: [Delaron] Unprompted Dropping of Frogs and Making them Hostile

Post by Timberpoes » #658484

Uncensored log entries are available to admins and maintainers trivially.

If you can provide search markers for censored parts you're interested in, we can find them for you and either copy them here, or tell you what category they fell under if they're private (like asay and tickets).

Many private entries are likely to be tickets and asay. As far as I'm aware general admin actions are not parsed out of the public logs, just things where all parties expect some level of privacy.

Ultimately it **is** all logged and any admin or maintainer can access the uncensored logs.
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Deadeagle
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Re: [Delaron] Unprompted Dropping of Frogs and Making them Hostile

Post by Deadeagle » #658511

Aware that many logs are censored in public logs, I was just questioning whether the ones I've found to be censored in some of my searches should be. Ahelps and asay are all more than reasonable to protect privacy, but I don't just don't understand why the ones I mentioned are censored as well. Whether its for a different reason which I haven't thought of yet, or privacy, which doesn't quite make sense to me.

As I said though, its probably beyond the scope of the complaint. Its just something that's come up as I've been log diving more and more.
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Timberpoes
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Re: [Delaron] Unprompted Dropping of Frogs and Making them Hostile

Post by Timberpoes » #658519

MSO would know exactly what is filtered, but no admin button pushing should be filtered to my knowledge. The only administrative stuff that's parsed out is just private channels - Ahelps and asay.

If there's a suspiciously looking censored log entry where you think an admin button push was, the most likely reason is the admin button push isn't logged (or is logged in some other file) and it's just a coincidental message in asay or a reply to an ahelp that was censored instead.

Looking at the code, admin drop pods (For coders, see /datum/centcom_podlauncher and/or /obj/effect/pod_landingzone) appear to be unlogged unless used as a targetted smite. No teleporting or admin getting was used that I can see from the raw logs.

Delaron just used standard admin "assuming direct control" to enter the frog (drag from the mob of the player you want to transfer, and drop on the mob you want them to take over)
https://tgstation13.org/parsed-logs/man ... 3/game.txt
Spoiler:

Code: Select all

[2022-11-08 16:52:10.862] ADMIN: Delaron/(Delaron Ereborn) stuffed Delaron into frog.
[2022-11-08 16:52:10.863] GAME: *no key*/(Delaron Ereborn) *no key*/(Delaron Ereborn) is no longer owning mob Delaron Ereborn(/mob/dead/observer) (Aft Port Maintenance (76,85,4))
[2022-11-08 16:52:10.863] ACCESS: Mob Login: Delaron/(frog) was assigned to a /mob/living/simple_animal/hostile/retaliate/frog
[2022-11-08 16:52:10.879] GAME: Delaron/(frog) Client Delaron/(frog) has taken ownership of mob the frog(/mob/living/simple_animal/hostile/retaliate/frog) (Aft Port Maintenance (77,85,4))
Which is about the only thing I found looking at the logs which you haven't included (although you did mention it).

I don't think it really changes any aspect of your complaint, but it's nice to have for completeness and full context.
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delaron
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Re: [Delaron] Unprompted Dropping of Frogs and Making them Hostile

Post by delaron » #658560

I do not have a good recollection of this event. I do believe it was linked to some activity happening elsewhere in the round and a case of mistaken identity. I also know there was an issue with the number of mobs generated being grossly more than intended and corrective actions taking place that were not conducive to your gaming experience. I apologize for the disruption and have noted that you in general would like to opt out or be informed prior to inclusion in any event related admin functions.

As for too many event or button pressing syndrome I acknowledge your perception but also will counter than many of my events are storytelling based on RNG generated events. For my admin duties I normally will follow a pattern of 2 games observing, only answering ahelps, 1 round with an event pre planned or adhoc built up based off a rng event and then a freeform round directly interacting with player prayers or other player activity unfolding mid in round. Even during those events I do strive to use the less is more concept.

Finally, I do want to emphasize I am very open to feedback and criticism. I prefer constructive feedback (which you provided here) and will act accordingly to make adjustments. While I disagree with the assertion of too much button pressing I will be more mindful and take to heart a clearer opt in approach to avoid unpleasant surprises. I am sorry it took you additional time and general courage over a month to collect logs and bring forth the complaint. I thank you for taking the time to bring this all to my awareness. Please feel free to also leave comments in my feedback thread if you are uncertain if something rises to a formal complaint level. I prefer to know what works and what doesn't even if its a minor thing.

*I accept any action the headmins might take. I am currently in the middle of SOC2 audits so my ability to circle back in a timely fashion is limited.
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RaveRadbury
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Re: [Delaron] Unprompted Dropping of Frogs and Making them Hostile

Post by RaveRadbury » #661872

We will not be upholding this complaint. The admin has taken the feedback into consideration, and this would have been better suited as a post in their admin feedback.

Rave: Do not uphold
San: Do not uphold
Spook: Do not uphold
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