/tg/Station 13

Bottom post of the previous page:

mosquitoman wrote: Just read what some admins post on this very forum or on singulo and you'll know that fucking up the round for everyone is more often than not great entertainment for (some of) them when they're bored.

This actually isn't as sinister as people seem to be making it out to be. We do encourage admins to avoid burn out by running events or doing something to cut thru the monotony of being an observer watching nothing happen over and over and over. And we've never hidden that fact, you search thru the forums you will find admins saying this over and over and over.

It's basically their reward for sitting thru a bunch of rounds as a ghost watching nothing happen and dealing with angry ahelps about getting arrested because they think security can only arrest traitors or some shit.

Now that being said, yes, we do want them to exercise a bit of caution with how, when, and how often they do this. General fuckary should aim to be just as much fun for the players as it is for the admin orchestrating the thing, round ending fuckary should balance that last guideline with ensuring the round ends and that its proportional to how long the round has been going on.

But admin complaints just aren't the way to discuss this.

Everybody jumps on admin complaints arguing about how "shit" xyz thing is, admin complaints get turned into a "situation" and having a virtual angry mob jump on your back for hitting the wrong button at the wrong time only serves to further insulate admins from players, something I'm trying to undo.

In the case of the admin complaint that triggered this, Lets actually look at the facts around that:

One, the round was past an hour, with endless recalling happening.

Two, the thing used to end the round had JUST been merged, no admin knew how balanced it was, how could they.

Three, I was leaving soon and we needed to run one more round as a test so that I could revert after that round so there was a bit of a need to end the gang round.

But here's the thing, admins shouldn't have to defend their every action every time they press a button to an angry mob. Concerns over how they did an event should be expressed as constructive feedback, not an angry 'complaint' demanding justification or deadmining.

peoplearestrange wrote: People keep throwing around the word conspiracy when what they're trying to imply (or not) is that the admins are purposely trying to make the game miserable for the players. Why!? Why would we want to do that?

Same reason that players will randomly murder and destroy things when there aren't rules. Shit is fun to do. It's not about "purposefully trying to make players miserable" so much as having fun at the expense of them. I mean we have a antagonist roles that we give free license to fuck with other players, and those roles are generally considered desirable.

Players aren't perfect either but they generally get notes/warnings/bans when they upset other people.



I'm not saying there's a bunch of people sitting in adminbus going "HE HE HE HOW WILL WE UPSET PLAYERS TODAY" (other than HG, anyway) but people getting bored and smashing the station for amusement is not far fetched at all when the gameplay more or less revolves around it, and we have pages and pages of rules about when it's okay for people to do it.

Another long list of reasons why I no longer play here.

It's becoming more and more difficult to hold admins accountable for their terrible mistakes. Instead of addressing problems here we just skirt them under the rug.

Go ahead and apply the rarely plays title on me. I'd say I've earned it.

mrpain wrote:Another long list of reasons why I no longer play here.

So you don't play here, but you come on the forums to moan? Why...

mrpain wrote:Another long list of reasons why I no longer play here.

It's becoming more and more difficult to hold admins accountable for their terrible mistakes. Instead of addressing problems here we just skirt them under the rug.

Go ahead and apply the rarely plays title on me. I'd say I've earned it.

Is there a server that holds their admins more accountable?

I'll ask Bay if they do.

QuartzCrystal wrote:

mrpain wrote:Another long list of reasons why I no longer play here.

It's becoming more and more difficult to hold admins accountable for their terrible mistakes. Instead of addressing problems here we just skirt them under the rug.

Go ahead and apply the rarely plays title on me. I'd say I've earned it.

Is there a server that holds their admins more accountable?

Yes.

peoplearestrange wrote:

mrpain wrote:Another long list of reasons why I no longer play here.

So you don't play here, but you come on the forums to moan? Why...

Because this community has the potential to be the best in all of SS13 and it isnt living up to its potential. I'd like to see it do that.

mrpain wrote:

QuartzCrystal wrote:

mrpain wrote:Another long list of reasons why I no longer play here.

It's becoming more and more difficult to hold admins accountable for their terrible mistakes. Instead of addressing problems here we just skirt them under the rug.

Go ahead and apply the rarely plays title on me. I'd say I've earned it.

Is there a server that holds their admins more accountable?

DO
Goon.
Vox.
Bay
Paradise.
Colonial Marines.
BestRP back when it was a thing
Yogstation
HippieStation
HypatiaStation
DONT
Tg Station
LLA

TL;DR : Yes.


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EDIT:

Yes, admins fuck up, but they are not punished for it, thats why we are upset.
When players fuck up, we get banned.
If a admin fucks up, they don't get banned.

See the problem here?

Essentially what it needs to be is if your event was not perfectly orcastrated with the utmost care and entertainment for the crew (Not just one individual or team, or yourself) then you recieve a event ban, you can't make any events for x ammount of time, if you break this, you recieve a 2 month normal ban.

Above is determined by the fact if someone makes a "HOLY SHIT THIS ADMIN IS BAD HIS EVENT WAS BAD" fourm, and then everyone on the server jumps in and agrees.

Can you explain exactly what is different about those servers?

How other servers manage themselves should be irrelevent to us. It shouldn't be used to excuse trying to improve our own situation.

lmao goon admins are horrible. The few times I went over there they were facerolling buttons so hard it crashed the server.

If people are tired of events on sybil to the point where if an event is not absolutely perfect they make a complaint, why don't we just stop running events on sybil for a while?
The event stuff can be done on bagil, and we can just administrate sybil with no button pushes at all. If people start whining that the round is boring, and buttons need to be pressed, too bad. Pressing a button could possibly ruin the round for one person so obviously we should just let the round play out. Win win for everyone, right?

palpatine213 wrote:If people are tired of events on sybil to the point where if an event is not absolutely perfect they make a complaint, why don't we just stop running events on sybil for a while?
The event stuff can be done on bagil, and we can just administrate sybil with no button pushes at all. If people start whining that the round is boring, and buttons need to be pressed, too bad. Pressing a button could possibly ruin the round for one person so obviously we should just let the round play out. Win win for everyone, right?

Do it. Seriously. I want to see the same people bitch about boredom, and watch basil get everyone who likes events.

Put it this way. Instead of willy nilly deciding "Ok we are going to have a event this round, fucking deal with it"

You can plan a event out, every single little fucking detail, have plans a, b, c, d, and e, and have all your shit together before you do it, insuring everyone knows what the fucks going on.

People who don't want to play the event, can do the following
A: Play the event, and fucking deal with it
B: Leave the server for the round duration
C: Get fucking bwoiked for being a cheeky cunt and fucking up events






Or you can put it this way, if people generally don't like your event, lets just say you alone recieve a event ban, essentially making the admin disallowed from making any events for 2 months, if they break that ban, they recieve a 2 month server ban.

Simple as that, people who make shitty events, don't get to host events.

Planning every single little detail out on how the event is going to go and making sure it happens that way is called railroading, and any decent DM is going to tell you how terrible of a thing that is as it makes players feel like whatever they do is pointless.
Edit: Also, the quality of an event is subjective. Some players may hate the event while others may like it. Who's opinion is valid in that case?

If your idea of an "event" varied a little better than, say, burning off half the station in a fire, or spawning a singularity in a hallway, then maybe people wouldnt react so harshly to that.

Also, should the admin who's idea of an event was burning half the station in a fire or spawning a singularity in a hallway not have decided that shutting the door on admin event complaints was ok, people might not have reacted as harshly as they just did.

Do you see the problem now?

You've just fucked the accountability chain.

So unless I'm missing something here, sticky said that complaints about events should be directed to event feedback threads, yeah? If that's the case, how is this censorship? They just want the admin complaints forum to be about significant issues/rule breaking as far as I can tell, which seems pretty fair. I don't think this policy would prevent making a complaint after an admin ruined multiple rounds in a row or something, it's just so people don't go "I ded pls deadmin."

duncathan wrote:So unless I'm missing something here, sticky said that complaints about events should be directed to event feedback threads, yeah?

That's akin to leaving feedback in the minor feedback thread on the feedback forums. Most coders probably don't bother spending the time to read it, and even if they do read it from time to time, they probably ignore most of it.

The problem is that this prevents admins from being punished for bad events, especially when they just messed with players for their own amusement and then retroactively called it an event when they were called out afterwards.

As a coder, I read all the feedback. All of it.
obviously I dont do anything about the feedback that would be hard

I'm still waiting for someone to explain to me how those servers hold their admins more accountable than we do.

Amnestik wrote:

duncathan wrote:So unless I'm missing something here, sticky said that complaints about events should be directed to event feedback threads, yeah?

That's akin to leaving feedback in the minor feedback thread on the feedback forums. Most coders probably don't bother spending the time to read it, and even if they do read it from time to time, they probably ignore most of it.

The problem is that this prevents admins from being punished for bad events, especially when they just messed with players for their own amusement and then retroactively called it an event when they were called out afterwards.

Every admin reads their feedback threads religiously. It's much more likely to affect change when constructive criticism is given to the right people rather than a globally disruptive complaint that causes an unreasonable amount of drama for weeks.

Also the only (as far as I could see) server that has headmin elections, admin feedback threads, and a dedicated forum section to admin complaints, as well as a policy discussion forum.