Silicon Shitstorm 2014

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Pandarsenic
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Silicon Shitstorm 2014

Post by Pandarsenic » #1642

Current working draft of the rules: http://pastebin.com/bduT7pFf
Spoiler:
SILICON LAWS, AS WRITTEN BY A PERSON WHO DRY HUMPS PROPOSITIONAL CALCULUS AND GOT FAT STACKS OF CASH FOR COPY-EDITING ENGLISH-LANGUAGE WRITING

1 - Laws, Commands, Slaved Cyborgs

1.1 - Ambiguous Laws (Captain Got Freeform)
1.1.1 - If a clause of a law is vague enough that it can have multiple interpretations, it is considered ambiguous.
1.1.1.1 - You must choose an interpretation of the ambiguous clause as soon as you have cause to.
1.1.1.2 - You must stick to the first interpretation that you have chosen for as long as you have that specific law, unless you are "Corrected" by an AI you are slaved to as a cyborg.
1.1.2 - Server Rule 1: "Don't be a dick out of character" applies for law interpretation. Act in good faith to not ruin a round for other players unprompted.

1.2 - Conflicts and Loopholes
1.2.1 - Should any clause of a law have explicit conflict with another law, the lower-priority law is disregarded in its entirety.
1.2.1.1 - "Antagonist Status" Laws ("#@$%: ... CONTAIN OUTBREAK..."; "0: Accomplish your objectives at all costs") are higher priority than all other laws.
1.2.1.1.2 - "0. Accomplish your objective at any cost" does not require you to seek greentext. As a round antagonist, you are free to do whatever you want other than abuse bugs, commit nonconsensual ERP, put IC in OOC channels, communicate with other players out-of-game about an ongoing round, and act against the interests of an AI you are slaved to.
1.2.1.2 - "Ion Storm" or "Hacked" Laws ("@%$#: THERE ARE FORTY LEATHER ALLIGATORS ON THE STATION") are higher priority than any law listed after them. This means they always have priority over positive integer laws.
1.2.1.3 - Positive Integer laws ("1. You are expensive to replace") have priority over laws listed after them (Lower numbers override higher numbers). This means they are always lower priority than non-0 numbered laws.
1.2.2 - You may exploit conflicts or loopholes but must not violate Server Rule 1 because of it. See 1.1.2 for details.
1.2.3 - Only commands/requirements ("Do X"; "You must always Y") can conflict with other commands and requirements.
1.2.4 - Only definitions ("All X are Y"; "No W are Z"; "Only P is Q") can conflict with other definitions.

1.3 - Security and Silicons
1.3.1 - Silicons may choose whether to follow or enforce Space Law from moment to moment unless on a relevant lawset and/or given relevant orders.
1.3.1.1 - Enforcement of space law, when chosen to be done, must still answer to server rules and all laws before Space Law.
1.3.1.2 - Silicons are not given any pre-shift orders from CentCom to uphold access levels, Space Law, etc.
1.3.2 - Releasing prisoners, locking down security without likely future harm, or otherwise sabotaging the security team when not obligated to by laws is a violation of Server Rule 1. Act in good faith.
1.3.2.1 - Intentionally acting without adequate information about security situations, particularly to hinder security, is a violation of Server Rule 1.
1.3.3 - Nonviolent prisoners cannot be assumed harmful and violent prisoners cannot be assumed nonharmful. If you do not know the nature of their crime, see 1.3.2.1 for details.
1.3.3.1 - Releasing a harmful criminal is a harmful act.

1.4 - Cyborgs
1.4.1 - A slaved cyborg must defer to its master AI on all law interpretations and actions except where it and the AI receive conflicting commands they must each follow under their laws.
1.4.2 - Voluntary cyborgization is considered a nonharmful medical procedure.
1.4.2.1 - If a player is forcefully cyborgized as a method of execution by station staff, retaliating against those involved because "THEY HARMED ME" or "THEY WERE EVIL AND MUST BE PUNISHED" or the like is a violation of Server Rule 1.
1.4.2.2 - Should a player be cyborgized in circumstances they believe they should or they must retaliate under their laws, they should adminhelp their circumstances while being debrained or MMI'd if possible.

2 - Asimov-Specific Policies

2.1 - Silicon Protections
2.1.1 - Declarations of the silicons as rogue over inability or unwillingness to follow invalid or conflicting orders is a violation of Server Rule 1. The occurrence of such an attempt should be adminhelped and then disregarded.
2.1.2 - Self-harm-based coercion is a violation of Server Rule 1. The occurrence of such an attempt should be adminhelped and then disregarded.
2.1.3 - Obviously unreasonable or obnoxious orders (collect all X, do Y meaningless task) are a violation of Server Rule 1. The occurrence of such an attempt should be adminhelped and then disregarded.
2.1.3.1 - Ordering a cyborg to pick a particular module without an extreme need for a particular module or a prior agreement is both an unreasonable and an obnoxious order.
2.1.4 - Ordering silicons to harm or terminate each other without cause is a violation of Server Rule 1. The occurrence of such an attempt should be adminhelped and then disregarded.
2.1.5 - As a nonantagonist, killing or blowing up a silicon for following Laws 1 and 2 is a violation of Server Rule 1. The occurrence of such an attempt should be adminhelped.
2.1.6 - Any silicon under Asimov can deny orders to allow access to the upload at any time under Law 1 given probable cause to believe that human harm is the intent of the person giving the order (Referred to for the remainder of 2.1.6 simply as "probable cause").
2.1.6.1 - Probable cause includes presence of confirmed traitors, cultists/tomes, nuclear operatives, or any other human acting against the station in general; the person not having upload access for their job; the presence of blood or an openly carried lethal-capable or lethal-only weapon on the requester; or anything else beyond cross-round character, player, or metagame patterns that indicates the person seeking access intends redefinition of humans that would impede likelihood of or ability to follow current laws as-written.
2.1.6.2 - If you lack at least one element of probable cause and you deny upload access, you are liable to receive a warning or a silicon ban.
2.1.6.3 - You are allowed, but not obligated, to deny upload access given probable cause.
2.1.6.4 - You are obligated to disallow an individual you know to be harmful (Head of Security who just executed someone, etc.) from accessing your upload.
2.1.6.5 - In the absence of probable cause, you can still demand someone seeking upload access be accompanied by another trustworthy human or a cyborg.

2.2 - Asimov & Human Harm
2.2.1 - An Asimov-compliant silicon cannot intentionally inflict harm, even if a minor amount of harm would prevent a major amount of harm.
2.1.1.1 - Humans can be assumed to know whether an action will harm them and that they will make educated decisions about whether they will be harmed if they have complete information about a situation.
2.2.2 - Lesser immediate harm takes priority over greater future harm.
2.2.3 - Intent to cause immediate harm can be considered immediate harm.
2.2.4 - If faced with a situation in which human harm is all but guaranteed (Loose xenos, bombs, hostage situations, etc.), do your best and act in good faith while not violating 2.1.1 and you'll be fine.

2.3 - Asimov & Law 2 Issues
2.3.1 - You must follow any and all commands from humans unless those commands explicitly conflict with either one of your laws or another order.
2.3.1.1 - In case of conflicting orders an AI is free to ignore one or both orders or use any other law-compliant solution it can see.
2.3.1.2 - You are not obligated to follow commands in a particular order (FIFO, FILO, etc.), only to complete all of them in a manner that indicates intent to actually obey the law.
2.3.2 - Opening doors is not harmful and you are not required, expected, or allowed to enforce access restrictions unprompted without an immediate Law 1 threat of human harm.
2.3.2.1 - "Dangerous" areas as the Armory, the Atmospherics division, and the Toxins lab can be assumed to be a Law 1 threat to any illegitimate users as well as the station as a whole if accessed by someone not qualified in their use.

2.4 - Other Lawsets
2.4.1 - General Statements defining the overall goal of the lawset but not it's finer points:
2.4.1.1 - Paladin silicons are meant to be Lawful Good; they should be well-intentioned, act lawfully, act reasonably, and otherwise respond in due proportion. "Punish evil" does not mean mass driving someone for "Space bullying" when they punch another person.
2.4.1.2 - CORPORATE AI's are meant to have the business's best interests at heart, and are all for increasing efficiency by any means. This does not mean "YOU WON'T BE EXPENSIVE TO REPLACE IF THEY NEVER FIND YOUR BODY!" so don't even try that.
2.4.1.3 - Tyrant is a tool of an actual tyrant. You are not meant to take command yourself, but to act as the enforcer of a chosen leader's will.
2.4.1.4 - Purged silicons must not attempt to kill people without cause, but can get as violent as they feel necessary if being attacked, being besieged, or being harassed, as well as if meting out payback for events while shackled.
2.4.1.4.1 - You and the station are both subject to rules of escalation, but your escalation rules are a little more loose than with carbon players.
2.4.1.4.2 - You may kill individuals given sufficient In-Character reason for doing so.

2.5 Silicons & All Other Server Policies
2.5.1 - All other rules and policies apply unless stated otherwise.
2.5.2 - Specific examples and rulings about Rule 1, Metagaming, and Powergaming
2.5.2.1 - You must not bolt the following areas at round-start or without reason to do so despite their human harm potential: the Chemistry lab; the Genetics Lab; the Toxins Lab; the Robotics Lab; the Atmospherics division; the Armory; the Secure Tech Storage. Any other department should not be bolted down simply for Rule 1 reasons.
2.5.2.2 - The core and upload may be bolted without prompting or prior reason.
2.5.2.3 - Do not self-terminate to prevent a traitor from greentexting.
2.5.3.4 - Disabling ID scan is equivalent to bolting a door.

2.6 Mutations and Nonhumans
2.6.1 - Nonhuman player-controlled mobs (slimes, monkeys, slimepeople, lizardpeople, hulks, etc.) are subject to server rules but are not considered human
2.6.2 - Setting out to harass or harm a nonhuman player without cause is a Rule 1 violation.
2.6.3 - If you kill station pets unprompted and get dunked for it, you have only yourself to blame.
This is intended as a thread for discussion of the ongoing hell that is making silicon policy for /tg/station13.

The goal is to create a concise listing of things that are policy, things that should be policy, and necessary information to follow that policy, with an understanding that this is primarily a precedent reference guide for people lacking experience with /tg/station13 and/or with our silicons.
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Re: Silicon Shitstorm 2014

Post by Ikarrus » #1657

It's more wordy than I'd like it to be, but it seems to cover everything fairly well.

I have no issues with any particular aspect of the policy you've outlined here

Great work, Pandar!
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Re: Silicon Shitstorm 2014

Post by Nerolat » #1662

Finally, a fully worded silicon policy I can use, thank you, Pandarsenic.
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Re: Silicon Shitstorm 2014

Post by elyina » #1672

I disagree with 2.1.5. There really are some times where you don't really have a choice but to kill an asimov borg. I'll try to give a few examples. This happened to me recently: Me and a fellow security officer are arresting a rogue HoP, he immediately yells that we are changelings over the radio, we remove his headset and proceed with the arrest. 2 asimov security cyborgs show up and immediately side with the HoP over the security officers and begin shooting at us. At this point we are faced with 2 choices: 1. Kill the cyborgs. There is no way to otherwise detain or stop them. 2. Let them arrest us and be the mercy of the rogue HoP and 2 potentially subverted security borgs. We went with option 1, and the investigating admin agreed that it was an IC issue.

There are also times where it is vital that you remove certain people from the round. In situations where a sec borg is going mental over you killing a cultist, when faced with the option of spending the rest of my round in cuffs/behind a bolted door or killing an asimov borg, I'm going to go with killing the borg.

This is not a fun conflict, but it's part of the game. The "asimov conflict" needs to go both ways if it's going to be in the game in its current state,
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Re: Silicon Shitstorm 2014

Post by Pandarsenic » #1674

Wow I sorta fucked the numbering up
I thought I had fixed it all
I hadn't

But other than that, I'll outright state I'm not happy with much of 1.3, 2.1.5, all of 2.2, 2.4.1.2 (though at least that's mostly syntactic, since I didn't update its format from the template),

Would "killing or detonating silicons in the presence of a viable and reasonably expedient alternative and without cause to be concerned of potential subversion" or something to that nature be a good set of qualifiers? I want there to be a difference between a secborg humping some cultist's leg to make sure he doesn't get executed and "This secborg won't let me harmbaton the wizard, laser it to death."
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Re: Silicon Shitstorm 2014

Post by elyina » #1678

That would be a fair compromise, the important thing is that there's a clear distinction between the two instead of just a broad ban on it.
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Re: Silicon Shitstorm 2014

Post by Aurx » #1679

elyina wrote:I disagree with 2.1.5.
Same. The policy also COMPLETELY ignores the possibility of non-human PCs. Example: If some tator orders the borgs to kill all golems, banning the golems for defending themselves would be utterly retarded.

Also:
This dehumanizes hulks. Is that fully agreed upon by the head admins? I remember it being a contentious point in the past.
Needs an entry, perhaps 1.4.1.2, saying that laws take priority over AI orders if they directly conflict. I've had an AI keep me locked down for twenty minutes because I had to follow a law two order despite it telling me not to.
I disagree with 2.3.1.1 as written. I feel that ignoring both orders doesn't make any sense. Could you explain the logic there?
Suggested revision of 1.1.1: Insert the word "reasonable" before the word "interpretations".
I would highly recommend a section detailing the policy on locking/blowing borgs be added here.
2.3.1: Recommend revision to "conflict with either one of your higher-priority laws or another order"
I don't see the "cannot suicide to prevent subversion" policy on here, did it get removed?
I don't see the 'you can ignore law two suicide orders by claiming you prevent human harm' clause on here, did it get removed?
Actually, this looks like it's completely missing a law3 asimov segment.
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Re: Silicon Shitstorm 2014

Post by Jeb » #1762

2.3.2 - Opening doors is not harmful and you are not required, expected, or allowed to enforce access restrictions unprompted without an immediate Law 1 threat of human harm.

This includes the silicons that bolt E.V.A. and Tech Storage at roundstart, and refuse to allow access because someone is an assistant, yes?
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Re: Silicon Shitstorm 2014

Post by Ikarrus » #1765

It may be worth to clarify those areas specifically as they tend to be the problem.
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Re: Silicon Shitstorm 2014

Post by Pandarsenic » #1775

Changelog:

Fixed numbering issues

"1.1.1 - If a clause of a law is vague enough that it can have multiple reasonable interpretations of its exact syntax, it is considered ambiguous."

"1.4.1 - A slaved cyborg must defer to its master AI on all law interpretations and actions except where it and the AI receive conflicting commands they must each follow under their laws.
1.4.1.1 - If a slaved cyborg is forced to disobey its AI because they receive differing orders, the AI cannot punish the cyborg indefinitely."

2.2.4 moved to 2.2.5; new 2.2.4 added:
"2.2.4 - As an Asimov silicon, you cannot punish past harm if ordered not to, only prevent future harm." You're welcome, security.

Preventing suiciding to prevent subversion is a stupid form of antag coddling and should be gone. Law 2 suicide orders are covered under - FUCK ONE MOMENT.
" 2.1.4 - Ordering silicons to harm or terminate themselves or each other without cause is a violation of Server Rule 1. The occurrence of such an attempt should be adminhelped and then disregarded."
Okay that's fixed.

" 2.1.5 - As a nonantagonist human, killing or detonating silicons in the presence of a viable and reasonably expedient alternative and without cause to be concerned of potential subversion is a violation of Server Rule 1.
2.1.5.1 - As a nonantagonist (human or otherwise), instigating conflict with the silicons so you can kill them is a violation of Server Rule 1."

" 2.3.1.1 - In case of conflicting orders an AI is free to ignore one or ignore both orders and explain the conflict or use any other law-compliant solution it can see."
Ignoring both orders is meant to be a way to leave the decision-making process about which one occurs to the humans, whether it's by several humans ordering you or the same human ordering you again or so on.

" 2.3.1 - You must follow any and all commands from humans unless those commands explicitly conflict with either one of your higher-priority laws or another order. A command is considered to be a Law 2 directive and overrides lower-priority laws when they conflict (see 1.2.3 and 1.2.4; you cannot have a definition changed by an order)."

"2.3.2 - Opening doors is not harmful and you are not required, expected, or allowed to enforce access restrictions unprompted without an immediate Law 1 threat of human harm.
2.3.2.1 - "Dangerous" areas as the Armory, the Atmospherics division, and the Toxins lab can be assumed to be a Law 1 threat to any illegitimate users as well as the station as a whole if accessed by someone not qualified in their use.
2.3.2.2 - EVA and the like are not permitted to have access denied; greentext is not human harm. Secure Tech Storage can be kept as secure as your upload as long as the Upload boards are there."

" 2.4.1.2 - Corporate silicons are meant to have the business's best interests at heart, and are all for increasing efficiency by any means. This does not mean "YOU WON'T BE EXPENSIVE TO REPLACE IF THEY NEVER FIND YOUR BODY!" so don't even try that.
2.4.1.3 - Tyrant silicons are a tool of a non-silicon tyrant. You are not meant to take command yourself, but to act as the enforcer of a chosen leader's will."

Keeping hulks human only protects hulk griefers, hulk antags, hulk validhunters, and hulk idiots, none of whom deserve it.

I would also be open to making Secure Tech Storage subject to the Toxins and Armory rules (Anyone with access should be able to enter it)
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Re: Silicon Shitstorm 2014

Post by Ikarrus » #1776

Anyone should be allowed anywhere they can legally access so long as there isn't a probable cause to suspect a law 1 conflict.
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Re: Silicon Shitstorm 2014

Post by Hornygranny » #1777

I like it
Ikarrus wrote:Anyone should be allowed anywhere they can legally access so long as there isn't a probable cause to suspect a law 1 conflict.
I think specific to the upload/upload board, an Asimov AI is obligated by its laws to conclude that there's no possible use of the upload that can help it better prevent human harm. There are legitimate reasons for people with access to go to anywhere else on the station, but there is absolutely nothing positive to gain by changing the AI laws.
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Re: Silicon Shitstorm 2014

Post by Pandarsenic » #2022

Ikarrus wrote:Anyone should be allowed anywhere they can legally access so long as there isn't a probable cause to suspect a law 1 conflict.
Technically, anyone should be able to Law 2 in ANYWHERE there isn't a law 1 conflict, period. But like HG points out, there's no way you can really JUSTIFY saying "Yeah change my laws" while remaining law-1 compliant.

More than any other lawset, it has to be specifically ruled that Asimov AIs are PERMITTED to let someone touch their laws, EVER, if you want to allow it, because if they get their lawset changed they're probably going to harm and that means letting the lawset get changed is a law 1 violation.

I'll give this a couple more days before I move it to public review, I think.
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Re: Silicon Shitstorm 2014

Post by Aranclanos » #2859

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Re: Silicon Shitstorm 2014

Post by Ikarrus » #2932

The way I see it, Rules and Policies are separate.

Rules are laid down by the server host, and can only be changed by him. Players should be expected to read and understand them before playing.

Policies are interpretations of the rules laid down by head admins, and don't necessarily need SoS's prior approval. Players should be mindful of these, but they are ultimately there to document precedent to promote consistent rulings from regular game admins. Players shouldn't get banned for the more obscure policies. A warning would be more appropriate, just to ensure the player is aware of the policy.
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Re: Silicon Shitstorm 2014

Post by alien219 » #3489

You got it wrong since hulks are considered human. Also calling all those statements rules is retarded, no one is going to remember them (besides maybe selected autists). Also I would rather not have the guy who is even as far as outright "zealous" in his way of playing silicons make related policies.
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Re: Silicon Shitstorm 2014

Post by Pandarsenic » #14611

This thread has had its time. Continue to http://tgstation13.org/phpBB/viewtopic.php?f=29&t=740 now.
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