[Deleted] Less is more

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UltimateGamer21
 
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Less is more

Postby UltimateGamer21 » Sat Sep 01, 2018 5:02 pm #436729

Serious thread, by the way.

Every election it seems like people weave these grandiose plans to move the server one way or another. (*It's mostly all lip service, of course, the single most powerful driving force of the game is, has always been, and always will be the general sentiments of the community. Admins can try to divert the flow but they're never going to completely change it)

My question is: why? Why do you think your plan is going to work when so often we see that any sort of grand or sweeping changes never come to fruition? The lure and appeal of this game to me was that it was totally player driven: the drama, the action, the emotion all came naturally from the way people played, the way their priorities, desires, and feelings as a player translated into a character, and how it clashes with 50~ others each with their own unique set of goals. To liken it to the server's namesake, compare a player-driven sandbox game of D&D to a storygame where the GM writes every interaction beforehand and the players follow the tracks.

Why do you feel like you know best? Why do most of you seem set on tightening the harness, debating silly things like the amount of roleplay or escalation policies? The reality is that the most enjoyable moments of the game happen organically, without a bunch of signs and barriers pointing players in the "right" direction.

Do you want roleplay? Let people do what they want, and the people that want to roleplay will find hundreds if not thousands of unique scenarios their character has to respond to through all the general madness of the game.

Escalation policy shouldn't even have to be discussed this much. Someone picks a fight, someone else will fight back. Let people deal with the consequences of their actions, and to those who can't, mark it as an IC issue and tell them to fuck off. The more you coddle players and try to write a ruling for every situation, the more players expect to be coddled and rules lawyered. Same goes for roleplay policies, powergaming, silicon policies, etc etc etc

So for those of you searching for solutions to problems that might not even exist, why? Why do you see these as issues? Why do you feel the need to complicate matters rather than just strip it out and deadmin anyone too incapable of critical thinking to make fair rulings without the fine print listing every kosher action a player can do? How do you expect to maintain the awesome organic moments and drama of this game if you keep trying to railroad the player experience?
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PostThis post was deleted by Jordie0608 on Sun Sep 02, 2018 4:23 am.
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Arianya
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Re: Less is more

Postby Arianya » Sat Sep 01, 2018 10:38 pm #436783

To give the most non-answer response possible, you're right and you're wrong.

You're right that a lot of the grandiose plans end up either unimplemented or having less of an impact then it seems, but that's because a lot of the time, and this is especially true for headmin candidates who come from the administration side, they're looking to deal with what they see in everyday adminning.

A rule of thumb that was given to me when I joined the team, and which has proven very accurate, is that something like 90% of tickets are escalation based. Your "Clowners has griffed me" to your "Is Lexia Black a traitors?", with the remaining 10% being 5% gameplay questions and 5% TC trades/prayers/etc.

Escalation policy is in a much better place then it was in the past, being a lot more simple and less "coddling", but it still needs to exist so that everyone can be on the same page (or as close as we can manage) on these things, so that one person isn't running around huffing stimulants waiting to make someone go sideways while another person wants organic violence escalation in 13 parts.

The same goes for a lot of the other examples you list, silicon policy stems almost wholesale from people expecting different things from a given AI based on their laws, and ultimately it comes down to headmins to make a ruling on which interpretation is preferable for the server.

While letting things resolve organically might seem appealing, you have to bear in mind that /tg/ is a server that sees thousands of unique players per month, from across the globe and across the spectrum of players. For better or for worse, to remain a fun place for people to hang out, we sooner or later get to the point where we have to put our expectations for players in writing, and this is how rules start, or escalation policy, or silicon policy or etc etc.

As I said, you're right and you're wrong. A lot of what headmins decide in a given term might not affect upward of 70% of the playerbase, who happily engage with the world and roleplay without needing signposting, but that doesn't invalidate the need for those policies and rules for the remaining 30%, and neither does it invalidate what candidates aim to improve, even if sometimes they overpromise and under deliver.

TL;DR
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While the platforms of a lot of candidates might not affect your average player, they're still important views to have represented for the gradual improvement of /tg/
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UltimateGamer21
 
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Re: Less is more

Postby UltimateGamer21 » Sun Sep 02, 2018 12:10 am #436796

Arianya wrote:Escalation policy is in a much better place then it was in the past, being a lot more simple and less "coddling", but it still needs to exist so that everyone can be on the same page (or as close as we can manage) on these things, so that one person isn't running around huffing stimulants waiting to make someone go sideways while another person wants organic violence escalation in 13 parts.

The same goes for a lot of the other examples you list, silicon policy stems almost wholesale from people expecting different things from a given AI based on their laws, and ultimately it comes down to headmins to make a ruling on which interpretation is preferable for the server.

While letting things resolve organically might seem appealing, you have to bear in mind that /tg/ is a server that sees thousands of unique players per month, from across the globe and across the spectrum of players. For better or for worse, to remain a fun place for people to hang out, we sooner or later get to the point where we have to put our expectations for players in writing, and this is how rules start, or escalation policy, or silicon policy or etc etc.

I think you misunderstand me. I think Kor's iteration of escalation policy is as far as it needs to go: if someone fucks with you, you fuck with them back. If you can't, tough luck, think of something or get better. There's an obvious point where someone is instigating shit constantly without ever contributing beyond that, but I think within reason (i.e. stealing, starting small fights (not to the death), breaking minor laws, shit like that that isn't taking people out of the round) conflict filled rounds drive the game and are the easiest way to get those awesome moments I mentioned.

Trying to further codify it boggles me. I think it's so psycho people can't figure these rules out. Situations should ideally end IC, not OOC. Admins shouldn't be a second wind when you lose a fight you started because the other guy punished you for starting it. In an ideal game, you reap what you sow, nothing more and nothing less.

I think most of my best rounds have sprouted from myself and/or the people involved doing shit that really should have and would have landed me with a ban in the eyes of a few administrators, I certainly wouldn't advocate for anarchy, but I really think the enforcers need to remember how enjoyable this game can be when you embrace the chaos.

If given the chance, the playerbase will police itself. It is my personal opinion that an admin is best put to use maintaining the flow rather than trying to divert it, but it feels like headmins are generally set on pushing things further towards the latter and I'd really like to know exactly why and how they feel it will work out.
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UltimateGamer21
 
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Re: Less is more

Postby UltimateGamer21 » Sun Sep 02, 2018 12:14 am #436797

I feel a little like I'm starting to sound like I'm doomsaying and doing the classic "everything sucks now and i gotta post about it on the forums" bit we've all heard so let me say that I haven't experienced any significant cases of overly aggressive administrating or railroading recently, but some of the candidates' stances on various "issues" haven't sat right with me and I'd like this thread to help maybe reflect on their platforms and whether or not they truly believe what's being proposed is the ideal direction to take.
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PostThis post was deleted by Jordie0608 on Sun Sep 02, 2018 4:23 am.
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BeeSting12
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Re: Less is more

Postby BeeSting12 » Sun Sep 02, 2018 5:05 am #436848

yeah ultimategamer's 100% right on everything.
Stickymayhem wrote:you're right!

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Arianya
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Re: Less is more

Postby Arianya » Sun Sep 02, 2018 11:05 am #436884

I'm not really a candidate looking to change the escalation rules, but I'll just leave a footnote that I don't think "The playerbase will police itself" is a goal we should aim for. I'm all for not coddling players and the emergence of SS13, but at the end of the day you can't rely on the playerbase to reasonably correct errant behaviour, especially on a playerbase of this scale.
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Stickymayhem
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Re: Less is more

Postby Stickymayhem » Sun Sep 02, 2018 9:40 pm #436989

I think a slight clarification on escalation rules isn't going to hurt anyone and other than that, I'm pushing for additions rather than changes. The Event Workshop isn't an effort to codify events, but to expand their scope, to bring more interested people into these projects and add lore/rp opportunities and more dynamic gameplay.

This is why I pushed for, back in my last headmin term, the Secret Rule at the bottom of the rules page. I personally think it's the most important rule we have, and exemplifies the idea that fun trumps stoic adherence to the rules every time.
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