[Deleted] Iamgoofball: Oh shit, I'm going to run.

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Re: Iamgoofball: Oh shit, I'm going to run.

Postby iamgoofball » Sat Feb 23, 2019 3:53 am #478038

sabira wrote:
iamgoofball wrote:Hostbus will not be an issue.


Will it not be an issue because you do not intend to participate, or because you believe you'll be able to demonstrate to the community of servers that you're trustworthy?

It's up to hostbus.



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Re: Iamgoofball: Oh shit, I'm going to run.

Postby Docprofsmith » Sat Feb 23, 2019 3:57 am #478041

Not-Dorsidarf wrote:
Docprofsmith wrote:How do you plan on getting at least one other headmin to implement an authoritarian nightmare in a silly 2D space station simulator?


He already answered that all possible candidates will fall into line out of an unspecified fear of being seen to be un democratic.


Excellent point Dorsi. Goof could you please expand on how 2/3 headmins potentially disagreeing with you is undemocratic?
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Re: Iamgoofball: Oh shit, I'm going to run.

Postby iamgoofball » Sat Feb 23, 2019 3:58 am #478043

If the players have elected me, it's because they want my platform and my changes. To resist it is to resist the will of the players, proving once and for all the player slot is a sham.

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Re: Iamgoofball: Oh shit, I'm going to run.

Postby Docprofsmith » Sat Feb 23, 2019 3:59 am #478044

iamgoofball wrote:If the players have elected me, it's because they want my platform and my changes. To resist it is to resist the will of the players, proving once and for all the player slot is a sham.


So you have no idea what a representative democracy is then. Understood, no further questions. Good luck.
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Re: Iamgoofball: Oh shit, I'm going to run.

Postby iamgoofball » Sat Feb 23, 2019 4:01 am #478045

Docprofsmith wrote:
iamgoofball wrote:If the players have elected me, it's because they want my platform and my changes. To resist it is to resist the will of the players, proving once and for all the player slot is a sham.


So you have no idea what a representative democracy is then. Understood, no further questions. Good luck.

If you legitimately think a system where two thirds of the representatives are chosen by the existing representatives is democratic, you're a fucking moron.

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Re: Iamgoofball: Oh shit, I'm going to run.

Postby Not-Dorsidarf » Sat Feb 23, 2019 4:07 am #478048

iamgoofball wrote:If the players have elected me, it's because they want my platform and my changes. To resist it is to resist the will of the players, proving once and for all the player slot is a sham.


To counter, would not the player and hostpicks overruling the admin pick be “proving” that the adminpick is just a sham? After all, you’d be rejecting the will of the admins to not be treated like dirt and stratified in that case.
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Re: Iamgoofball: Oh shit, I'm going to run.

Postby iamgoofball » Sat Feb 23, 2019 4:08 am #478049

Not-Dorsidarf wrote:
iamgoofball wrote:If the players have elected me, it's because they want my platform and my changes. To resist it is to resist the will of the players, proving once and for all the player slot is a sham.


To counter, would not the player and hostpicks overruling the admin pick be proving that the adminpick is just a sham? After all, you’d be rejecting the will of the admins to not be treated like dirt and stratified in that case.

The host pick is always given to the headadmins. Not once has MSO ever done anything but do that, and not once has the headmins ever elected a non-admin with their granted pick.

Your example would hold up if this was not the case, but it is the case.

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Re: Iamgoofball: Oh shit, I'm going to run.

Postby Not-Dorsidarf » Sat Feb 23, 2019 4:12 am #478052

iamgoofball wrote:
Not-Dorsidarf wrote:
iamgoofball wrote:If the players have elected me, it's because they want my platform and my changes. To resist it is to resist the will of the players, proving once and for all the player slot is a sham.


To counter, would not the player and hostpicks overruling the admin pick be proving that the adminpick is just a sham? After all, you’d be rejecting the will of the admins to not be treated like dirt and stratified in that case.

The host pick is always given to the headadmins. Not once has MSO ever done anything but do that, and not once has the headmins ever elected a non-admin with their granted pick.

Your example would hold up if this was not the case, but it is the case.


But the head admins get one vote.

The rest of the admins get the second vote

The players get the third vote

Where does the 2/3rd majority come from
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Re: Iamgoofball: Oh shit, I'm going to run.

Postby iamgoofball » Sat Feb 23, 2019 4:17 am #478056

Not-Dorsidarf wrote:
iamgoofball wrote:
Not-Dorsidarf wrote:
iamgoofball wrote:If the players have elected me, it's because they want my platform and my changes. To resist it is to resist the will of the players, proving once and for all the player slot is a sham.


To counter, would not the player and hostpicks overruling the admin pick be proving that the adminpick is just a sham? After all, you’d be rejecting the will of the admins to not be treated like dirt and stratified in that case.

The host pick is always given to the headadmins. Not once has MSO ever done anything but do that, and not once has the headmins ever elected a non-admin with their granted pick.

Your example would hold up if this was not the case, but it is the case.


But the head admins get one vote.

The rest of the admins get the second vote

The players get the third vote

Where does the 2/3rd majority come from

The admins have never voted in a non-admin to the headmin position, because they gain nothing from bringing in a player, who often will not agree with their existing status quo. You can check the records to prove this, along with headmin candidate threads by players vs admin made candidate threads.
The headmins have never voted in a non-admin to the headmin position every single election for the exact same reason. You can check the records to prove this.

Therefore, we can reasonably assume that they will vote for someone within their own admin circle, and with the way of getting into that admin circle being nebulous to the point that fucking spankmaster of all people had a good point about how it's not actually written down anywhere and is a literal "be friends with an admin to get in" club, it's not representative of the playerbase at all.

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Re: Iamgoofball: Oh shit, I'm going to run.

Postby Not-Dorsidarf » Sat Feb 23, 2019 4:21 am #478063

But the admins aren’t representatives of the player base, elected or otherwise. The player headmin is the player base’s representative. The admin vote headmin is a representative of the admins. And the host vote headmin is a representative of the fact that MSO doesnt want his vote and wants nothing to do with the whole affair and should really just formally give it up and establish a new way of handling it. But it’s supposed to be a representative from the weed smoker who runs the server on a technical side.


Edit: you’ve claimed dissatisfaction with the current procedure of obtaining adminship. If you’re elected, how would you like to change/redefine the process?
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Re: Iamgoofball: Oh shit, I'm going to run.

Postby iamgoofball » Sat Feb 23, 2019 4:22 am #478064

Then MSO needs to give his vote to the players.

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Re: Iamgoofball: Oh shit, I'm going to run.

Postby Ayy Lemoh » Sat Feb 23, 2019 4:25 am #478065

iamgoofball wrote:Then MSO needs to give his vote to the players.

So they vote two times or first and second place in the poll gets headmin?

Seems kinda odd to be honest.

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Re: Iamgoofball: Oh shit, I'm going to run.

Postby iamgoofball » Sat Feb 23, 2019 4:26 am #478067

Ayy Lemoh wrote:
iamgoofball wrote:Then MSO needs to give his vote to the players.

So they vote two times or first and second place in the poll gets headmin?

Seems kinda odd to be honest.

Either situation would work, or MSO should start using his vote himself.

The administration makes up a minority of the server population, yet ends up with double the representation choice every time.

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Re: Iamgoofball: Oh shit, I'm going to run.

Postby wubli » Sat Feb 23, 2019 4:48 am #478078

What are you, fucking retarded? Use your brain, this is why the admins have a shit reputation. Do your fucking job properly, dipshit, and don't demand we make it easier for you just because "oh I might have to exercise judgement before hitting the ban button :cry: "

While admins aren't forced to get along with eachother, considering it IS a team, do you think this is the appropiate way of approaching them? I highly doubt Morto is going to cry herself to sleep, but it still strikes me as odd how you say that you're able to represent /tg/, that it wouldn't be a problem, while simultaneously dissing what would be your own team. I'm mostly concerned about your aggressive ways, which is not something that's really helpful when you consider we're all a bunch of nerds trying to keep a community running for nothing in return.
No matter how good your ideas might be - this is not a one man army. This does not mean you cannot ever disagree with an admin, but you should be more careful regarding the way in which you do.
Taken from this thread.
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Re: Iamgoofball: Oh shit, I'm going to run.

Postby iamgoofball » Sat Feb 23, 2019 4:51 am #478079

wubli wrote:
What are you, fucking retarded? Use your brain, this is why the admins have a shit reputation. Do your fucking job properly, dipshit, and don't demand we make it easier for you just because "oh I might have to exercise judgement before hitting the ban button :cry: "

While admins aren't forced to get along with eachother, considering it IS a team, do you think this is the appropiate way of approaching them? I highly doubt Morto is going to cry herself to sleep, but it still strikes me as odd how you say that you're able to represent /tg/, that it wouldn't be a problem, while simultaneously dissing what would be your own team. I'm mostly concerned about your aggressive ways, which is not something that's really helpful when you consider we're all a bunch of nerds trying to keep a community running for nothing in return.
No matter how good your ideas might be - this is not a one man army. This does not mean you cannot ever disagree with an admin, but you should be more careful regarding the way in which you do.
Taken from this thread.

There's nothing wrong here. That's a debate thread in the debate subforum for debate. If you can't handle a few mean words in a 4chan community because you just admitted you'd ban people for rules infractions on shit that might not even stick around for longer than the ban is, I dunno how you expect to handle an admin position when they clearly can't use basic judgement.

I have a problem with people claiming to be admins who don't understand the basic concept of selective enforcement based on the situation, and if "rule being tested and might get removed under a week" isnt enough for you to grasp that "hey, maybe long standing note bearing punishments for this isn't a good idea and I shouldn't ban for it period", then you're not ready for the position.

If your reply to this is "but github", once again github isnt a 4chan community

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Re: Iamgoofball: Oh shit, I'm going to run.

Postby wubli » Sat Feb 23, 2019 4:56 am #478082

"4chan community" isn't a good excuse for being an absolute asshole to someone who's actively using their free time to administrate this game and make it fun for others. You don't seem to understand the fact adminbus isn't a hivemind, and instead is a team with a bunch of different people.
You would talk to these people daily, and you would decide how they enforce rules. It's not going to be pleasant to work with someone who acts like an absolute dick, hence why I'm asking you to reconsider your ways. You don't want admins to hate you because you're a dick to them, and admins don't want a headmin that they can't talk to unless they want to be called retarded. If you want to keep playing the 4chan community card to be an asshole, feel free to, but embrace the fact you're choosing to be a dick.
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Re: Iamgoofball: Oh shit, I'm going to run.

Postby Not-Dorsidarf » Sat Feb 23, 2019 4:59 am #478085

How are those rules going to be enforced whatsoever if yu’re opposed to admins banning rulebreakers because it goes on their permanent record?
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Re: Iamgoofball: Oh shit, I'm going to run.

Postby BebeYoshi » Sat Feb 23, 2019 5:05 am #478095

Excuse me if you think this is off topic, but I have a concern.

With my two only interactions with you, these being the gang and economy pull requests, a feedback thread were made from both, and it was a really bad experience since you completely ignored all the players suggestion and just considered mainteiners suggestions, even when they were the same as the public. This wouldn't be a problem if you didn't state early that:

iamgoofball wrote:
MrAlphonzo wrote:How would you rate your capacity to handle feedback?

I did it all the time during my time as a coder, and still do it to this day.


If you are going to have the same capacity of handling feedback as a coder, this would be a problem since headmins MUST always consider players opinion.

The real question is: are you up for a change or are you saying that you will handle feedback the same way you did in these threads? This is a decisive question for me and I think for everyone that saw how you acted on both of these situation, I hope I didn't mess up what I tried to say.
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Re: Iamgoofball: Oh shit, I'm going to run.

Postby oranges » Sat Feb 23, 2019 5:15 am #478101

BebeYoshi wrote:you completely ignored all the players suggestion and just considered mainteiners suggestions, even when they were the same as the public.

I don't wish to intervene in the rest of your post but this is explicitly what we recommend of developers, the maintainers are the ones who are answerable to the public and they are also the ones a developer has to satisfy.

Responding to public concerns is good, but ultimately irrelevant

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Re: Iamgoofball: Oh shit, I'm going to run.

Postby BebeYoshi » Sat Feb 23, 2019 5:17 am #478102

I can understand that if he didn't say that he is going to handle it the same way he does as a coder, that's my concern.
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Re: Iamgoofball: Oh shit, I'm going to run.

Postby Not-Dorsidarf » Sat Feb 23, 2019 5:23 am #478105

oranges wrote:
BebeYoshi wrote:you completely ignored all the players suggestion and just considered mainteiners suggestions, even when they were the same as the public.

I don't wish to intervene in the rest of your post but this is explicitly what we recommend of developers, the maintainers are the ones who are answerable to the public and they are also the ones a developer has to satisfy.

Responding to public concerns is good, but ultimately irrelevant


This is true, but it does cast doubts on the sincerity of his “the will of the people is always perfectly correct and the best solution” and “it’s wrong for admins to have more influence because they are a small team” stance when you consider his long reputation of controversial changes to the game that are largely disliked by players but liked by the small maintainer team.
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Re: Iamgoofball: Oh shit, I'm going to run.

Postby iamgoofball » Sat Feb 23, 2019 5:32 am #478110

Anyone is able to show up to the github repository and pull request whatever they want.

Anyone is NOT able to show up to the admin team and join and start enforcing rules

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Re: Iamgoofball: Oh shit, I'm going to run.

Postby bman » Sat Feb 23, 2019 5:44 am #478114

about the only candidate who wishes to wreck the status quo, if you like that, then he is your pick
pryce bax.
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Re: Iamgoofball: Oh shit, I'm going to run.

Postby IkeTG » Sat Feb 23, 2019 6:14 am #478128

iamgoofball wrote:If the players have elected me, it's because they want my platform and my changes. To resist it is to resist the will of the players, proving once and for all the player slot is a sham.

To resist your will is to resist solely your will, you're elected not because you're an extension of the player's beliefs but because they believe you represent them the best.

With that point made, I feel part of the point of there being three headmins instead of one or two is because it makes compromise or finding middle grounds a necessity in there being rulings. If it comes to the point where the other two headmins disagree with you on something, are you willing and capable of compromising and/or conceding?

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Re: Iamgoofball: Oh shit, I'm going to run.

Postby Dax Dupont » Sat Feb 23, 2019 6:49 am #478145

How do you feel connected to the community with a connection count to the servers that has been basically non existant the last 2 years

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Re: Iamgoofball: Oh shit, I'm going to run.

Postby iamgoofball » Sat Feb 23, 2019 7:13 am #478157

Dax Dupont wrote:How do you feel connected to the community with a connection count to the servers that has been basically non existant the last 2 years

The sort of people who need to brag about their connection count are the sort of people who drive expensive cars to compensate.

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Re: Iamgoofball: Oh shit, I'm going to run.

Postby obscolene » Sat Feb 23, 2019 7:24 am #478161

iamgoofball wrote:
Dax Dupont wrote:How do you feel connected to the community with a connection count to the servers that has been basically non existant the last 2 years

The sort of people who need to brag about their connection count are the sort of people who drive expensive cars to compensate.

actually playing the game isn't bragging about your connection count, buddy.
sc#4622 | everybodygangstauntilnig.ga (UPDATED FREQUENTLY)

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[03:46:59]EMOTE: The Dreamweaver/(Steve Leaf) : <b>Steve Leaf</b> starts jacking lizard dick. (129,128,2)
[03:47:33]SAY: Steve Leaf/The Dreamweaver : OH FUCK IM CHOAKING (129,128,2)
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Re: Iamgoofball: Oh shit, I'm going to run.

Postby lmwevil » Sat Feb 23, 2019 7:26 am #478163

goofball can we ban redditmins?

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Re: Iamgoofball: Oh shit, I'm going to run.

Postby Nervere » Sat Feb 23, 2019 7:55 am #478178

As a matter of personal experience, the only time I saw Goofball actually play the game in the last two years is when he was testing his “Families” gamemode which lasted only a few days. Then he stopped playing again.

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Re: Iamgoofball: Oh shit, I'm going to run.

Postby iamgoofball » Sat Feb 23, 2019 8:13 am #478189

ye, this is because i have a life and projects that aren't ss13 all day every day

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Re: Iamgoofball: Oh shit, I'm going to run.

Postby obscolene » Sat Feb 23, 2019 8:15 am #478191

iamgoofball wrote:ye, this is because i have a life and projects that aren't ss13 all day every day

if you don't have enough time to even play the game, what makes you think you have enough time to be a headmin for it?
sc#4622 | everybodygangstauntilnig.ga (UPDATED FREQUENTLY)

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[03:46:59]EMOTE: The Dreamweaver/(Steve Leaf) : <b>Steve Leaf</b> starts jacking lizard dick. (129,128,2)
[03:47:33]SAY: Steve Leaf/The Dreamweaver : OH FUCK IM CHOAKING (129,128,2)
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Re: Iamgoofball: Oh shit, I'm going to run.

Postby lmwevil » Sat Feb 23, 2019 8:17 am #478192

headmins don't play the game honk

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Re: Iamgoofball: Oh shit, I'm going to run.

Postby Ayy Lemoh » Sat Feb 23, 2019 8:21 am #478196

obscolene wrote:
iamgoofball wrote:ye, this is because i have a life and projects that aren't ss13 all day every day

if you don't have enough time to even play the game, what makes you think you have enough time to be a headmin for it?

To play the game genuinely once, excluding some exceptions, is to focus on primarily the game for 20 minutes to 1 hour in one sitting.

To headmin is to be ready for some jackass to ping you as soon as you're online at any time however this is not in one sitting.

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Re: Iamgoofball: Oh shit, I'm going to run.

Postby iamgoofball » Sat Feb 23, 2019 8:24 am #478199

obscolene wrote:
iamgoofball wrote:ye, this is because i have a life and projects that aren't ss13 all day every day

if you don't have enough time to even play the game, what makes you think you have enough time to be a headmin for it?

have you considered that as a human being, i am able to budget my time to include time for doing stuff like headmin duties

or are you too used to the 4chan neet lifestyle where the concept of a schedule is forbidden

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Re: Iamgoofball: Oh shit, I'm going to run.

Postby Boris » Sat Feb 23, 2019 10:51 am #478254

How many admins do you think would quit if you won the vote?
The nerd that plays Tam and Amanda Lin

Call me a bad admin here.

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Re: Iamgoofball: Oh shit, I'm going to run.

Postby iamgoofball » Sat Feb 23, 2019 10:51 am #478256

Boris wrote:How many admins do you think would quit if you won the vote?

I dunno, but I'll be setting up applications for aspiring administrators after I win.

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Re: Iamgoofball: Oh shit, I'm going to run.

Postby Dax Dupont » Sat Feb 23, 2019 11:00 am #478260

You can't really expect to be in touch with a community where the vast majority are only in game when you almost never partake in that game.

The only involvement you seem to have with the community is posting on the forums especially after your gitban.

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Re: Iamgoofball: Oh shit, I'm going to run.

Postby Jordie0608 » Sat Feb 23, 2019 1:24 pm #478276

iamgoofball wrote:The host pick is always given to the headadmins. Not once has MSO ever done anything but do that


It's not an important point, but for the sake of correctness:
In the past MSO has given the host vote to maintainers and also directly selected myself and shadowlight213 as headmins.
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Rustledjimm
 
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Re: Iamgoofball: Oh shit, I'm going to run.

Postby Rustledjimm » Sat Feb 23, 2019 2:14 pm #478284

I have to say but I do not think hostchat will ever let you into there.
So uhh, I'm an admin. Please leave feedback!

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Re: Iamgoofball: Oh shit, I'm going to run.

Postby Jordie0608 » Sat Feb 23, 2019 4:51 pm #478312

Hi goof I edited you a 1984 poster to help people understand your inane policies.
Hope you enjoy.
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Caiggas
 
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Re: Iamgoofball: Oh shit, I'm going to run.

Postby Caiggas » Sat Feb 23, 2019 8:05 pm #478357

So, this thread is chock full of people expressing their concerns about your suitability to be a headmin. I'd like to reiterate a few that you have given unsatisfactory or insufficient response to.

1: Your legendary extreme toxicity: Do I even need to explain this one? Your reputation is and has been a meme for as long as I remember. You have a habit of responding with extreme vitriol and hatred at criticism. In the past it was simply unpleasant and detracted from otherwise serious discussions. This is not adequately excused by this community being spawned of 4chan. Everyone knows that we have grown past that stage. Additionally, running a position of power WELL requires being able to respond to others with some level of professionalism. If you were elected into an actual position of power, it is likely that those under you would be afraid to criticize you lest they be removed from their position. That actually leads into my next point.

2: Your willingness to take advantage of the rules of a system to remove opposition: This is in reference to your also legendary github reputation. Unfortunately due to your ban it is difficult to produce verifiable logs. Nonetheless, there are plenty of us who were around at that time and remember it well. You are known for having threatened to abuse the ban system of github to get rid of people who you didn't want commenting on your PRs anymore. YES, THERE WERE LEGITIMATE CASES WHERE THE COMMENTER DESERVED A BAN. However, as mentioned by other replies in this thread, you ALSO threatened to report people who were not violating any of github's terms of service. You attempted to defend this by first accusing the other person of being OK with violations of platform's tos. After that, you tried to make it sound like threatening to report an innocent was OK, because the reports are human reviewed, and it would just get closed. This, of course, ignores that not everyone is aware of how reporting works on every platform they are a part of. This shows that you are willing to use fear to bully others into accepting your ideas. This a TERRIBLE quality for anyone in a position of power to have. How can you expect there to be a shred of democracy in a system where the top-level guy just bans anybody who disagrees with him?

3: Your involvement with the community. Seriously, how can you expect to be a representative of the players WHEN YOU DON'T PLAY? You fundamentally cannot relate with the playerbase when you are not a part of it. All you would be doing is occupying a slot designed for players as a complete outsider. At that point, we might as well replace the headmin slot with a coin flip. I mean, a literal better option than you would be a bot that messages OOC on every server at the top of every hour with links to automated polls, with the results of the polls making the playerbase headmin decisions.

4: Your understanding of how good administration works. Really? you are advocating REWARDING backstabbing? Yes, any good administrative system needs transparency. We don't need to reward cutthroat politics to do that. I absolutely AGREE with protection for whistleblowers, but outright promoting them is stupid. Do you seriously not see any potential for abuse in that kind of system? Look at the american prison system for examples.

Anyway, I don't have the energy to continue writing out examples, but I had to make sure these ones were addressed. If you are just memeing by the way, and are just fucking with the community, then I apologize for wasting everyone's time.
“A choice with a clear optimal answer isn't actually a choice, and therefore isn't fun”

VV Quote in which Goofball agrees to follow the will of the players if he gets elected as headmin. VV
Spoiler:
Caiggas wrote:
iamgoofball wrote:
Caiggas wrote:
iamgoofball wrote:
Caiggas wrote:Now, what if you get a majority of feedback against a decision you have made? Are you just going to accept the feedback but ignore it, are you going to "think about it", but still do what you feel is correct, or are you going to COMPLETELY allow the feedback to dictate your decision regardless of your own opinions? For me to concede those last points, I can ONLY accept the last option. Otherwise you can just veto player democracy anytime you feel like it.
like the whistleblower thing, i'm sure some player will come up with a better alternative for the idea that works out and gives more power to the proletariat player and coder instead of the bourgeois


That's not an answer to the question. Let me put it more plainly. If the majority of player feedback is AGAINST a decision you made, are you or are you not going to change the decision to align with the majority of player feedback? Its a yes or no question.

uh, yes? what part of that wasn't clear


Trying to make sure there is no ambiguity in your answer. I don't want you to accuse me of taking something out of context if I ever have to throw the screenshot of this at you.

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Re: Iamgoofball: Oh shit, I'm going to run.

Postby wubli » Sat Feb 23, 2019 11:35 pm #478398

Caiggas is right.

Also, I would like to point out that most of your last messages consisted of "when I win, we will do X". You're still ignoring that there are other two headmins. I cannot think of candidates who would agree to everything you think should be done - and it's not a good attitude to have to think you will single handedly change things accordingly to what you think is right, disregarding their opinions.

You keep being abrasive and aggressive, even with the people you would supposedly be working with. You take this extremely seriously - and I'm saying this as an Admin Trainer and once headmin candidate. I am a very active player and admin and I'd like to think I try to make this place better a lot, but you seem to take this to the extreme - to the point you get aggressive with people who are like I said, all in all, using their free time to make /tg/ a better place for others. So when I post these things, when I voice my concerns, it's because I really dislike your attitude and I want you to reconsider it. A lot of people just disregard it, and I don't blame them, but I prefer to be upfront about it, because I'd be working with you for six months. I am here to have fun and to make this fun for others, and this being a "4chan community" does not mean I should endure being constantly dissed -because it's not even banter-.

Again, regarding transparency - I see you've noticed you want to keep tg leads as a private place, which means you do understand some matters should be private. Discussions in adminbus are long, an admins' opinion on a matter might change overtime. If you make all of these public, you would just force them to keep their own opinions to themselves. Admins should be free to argue about administrative matters in private, which does not mean they will be kept a secret afterwards. I agree with public bans - I don't agree with the removal of a common place for admins to talk about in-game issues, or chatter. One of the reasons why I am still an admin is because of the friends I've made, thanks to admin chatter. I feel more comfortable sharing about my day there than I do in the public channels with thousands of people - and considering I have to work with admins, it's not weird I'd like to interact with them. You'd just be forcing us to make a different server or chat to talk normally, when we are pretty comfortable and okay with what the have, playing videogames and having fun as friends. Because we are here to have fun.

I am aware I can't change your mind, but I hope you reconsider a few points in your platform. It's easy to promise stuff as a player, without knowledge of how being an admin works, that sounds appealing and ideal, but wouldn't be practical. You should be realistic and understand that things won't go your way even if you're elected just because you were.
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Re: Iamgoofball: Oh shit, I'm going to run.

Postby Ayy Lemoh » Sat Feb 23, 2019 11:41 pm #478405

Spoiler:
these are the words of someone who is corrupt and blatant about it

just admit that allowing players more say in the rules administrating them would cause an administration run by you to crumble to the ground

iamgoofball wrote:admins afraid of transparency, literally admit "we can't risk doing our fake erp spam in public channels"

what a surprise

Oh, we're moving back to IRC for it when I'm elected. Discord is a shitty, unstable, insecure, literally owned by the chinese and Tencent platform. I give it a year before they accidentally leak all our info.

No private admin channel except for srs business in the headmin and former headmin zone.
No discord since we will now use IRC under Goofball so community interaction will probably be less likely or more difficult.
Cutthroat whistleblowing politics so, in the worst case scenario, everyone will be paranoid of each other and the best case scenario is meh.
General hatred towards the people he has to work with tbh.

Goofball, this is a fucking video game. Admins are volunteers and it doesn't matter if you removed all the current admins then replaced them since this shit seems so annoying to put up with. At this rate, you would be better off just trying to remove admins AND headmins permanently so it is just the code.

It feels like you hate almost every admin and ex-admin except those who are oldfags. If you became headmin then I genuinely worry how you would feel if you thought that you are completely surrounded by assholes, scumbags, and liars. Please, Goofball, can you make up a list of every current admin who you think isn't a faggot lying piece of shit scumbag good-for-nothing crook motherfucker? I want to know if you even think any of them have any value at all. There is no way that you genuinely hate all of them and think none of them are good people. That's a more negative outlook on things than I could ever imagine someone like you having.

Don't say that I am a corrupt pig asshole despite how I was fucked over when I 'retired' way back. I just want to know if you truly believe that all the admins hate you since I am concerned.

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Re: Iamgoofball: Oh shit, I'm going to run.

Postby iamgoofball » Sat Feb 23, 2019 11:51 pm #478412

Ayy Lemoh wrote:No private admin channel except for srs business in the headmin and former headmin zone.
this is good, except former headmins get the boot, ex-presidents don't get to keep being president
No discord since we will now use IRC under Goofball so community interaction will probably be less likely or more difficult.
IRC is the objectively superior platform and does everything discord does without any of the useless cruft like insane memory overhead, chromium, demanding you give them money 24/7, and a game store. There's nothing wrong with IRC, and if you want voice chat, we can use the discord for that since contrary to popular belief, the discord won't be getting destroyed 5ever, only the admin channels in it that aren't allowed to be 100% transparent
Cutthroat whistleblowing politics so, in the worst case scenario, everyone will be paranoid of each other and the best case scenario is meh.
perhaps, but when players in this community have almost been removed because nobody wanted to blow the whistle, it's a needed evil
General hatred towards the people he has to work with tbh.
i will reserve all judgements on admins until i have had an opportunity to work with them to see if they are capable of doing their jobs properly with actual oversight and player say in the order of law
Goofball, this is a fucking video game.
a video game we run full on IRV elections for admin positions in, don't keep this meme up please, it just makes you look stupid

Admins are volunteers and it doesn't matter if you removed all the current admins then replaced them since this shit seems so annoying to put up with. At this rate, you would be better off just trying to remove admins AND headmins permanently so it is just the code.
tbqh thats not the worst idea btw
It feels like you hate almost every admin and ex-admin except those who are oldfags. If you became headmin then I genuinely worry how you would feel if you thought that you are completely surrounded by assholes, scumbags, and liars. Please, Goofball, can you make up a list of every current admin who you think isn't a faggot lying piece of shit scumbag good-for-nothing crook motherfucker? I want to know if you even think any of them have any value at all. There is no way that you genuinely hate all of them and think none of them are good people. That's a more negative outlook on things than I could ever imagine someone like you having.
i will reserve all judgements on admins until i have had an opportunity to work with them to see if they are capable of doing their jobs properly with actual oversight and player say in the order of law
Don't say that I am a corrupt pig asshole despite how I was fucked over when I 'retired' way back. I just want to know if you truly believe that all the admins hate you since I am concerned.

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Ayy Lemoh
 
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Re: Iamgoofball: Oh shit, I'm going to run.

Postby Ayy Lemoh » Sat Feb 23, 2019 11:59 pm #478417

Just gonna reply to a few points
iamgoofball wrote:No discord since we will now use IRC under Goofball so community interaction will probably be less likely or more difficult.
IRC is the objectively superior platform and does everything discord does without any of the useless cruft like insane memory overhead, chromium, demanding you give them money 24/7, and a game store. There's nothing wrong with IRC, and if you want voice chat, we can use the discord for that since contrary to popular belief, the discord won't be getting destroyed 5ever, only the admin channels in it that aren't allowed to be 100% transparent

Goofball, this is a fucking video game.
a video game we run full on IRV elections for admin positions in, don't keep this meme up please, it just makes you look stupid

Admins are volunteers and it doesn't matter if you removed all the current admins then replaced them since this shit seems so annoying to put up with. At this rate, you would be better off just trying to remove admins AND headmins permanently so it is just the code.
tbqh thats not the worst idea btw

1. I'm not referring to you saying discord is shit and IRC is better. I just mean that out-of-game community interaction may be less likely. The only thing wrong with IRC is how willing you are to use it and make it fit to what you want since I assume the meme comic of someone going I WILL ALWAYS USE IRC must have some truth to it.
2. We may make serious posts and do autistic shit like that for a video game however I feel we're getting a bit too fucking extra here.
3. You'd need dedicated game designers for that plus a better community. You would just be making lifeweb but less grimdark and less cool if we're being honest since a clown murderboner is not as cool as high-tech medieval town guards trying to fight a giant flesh monster.

edit: also it would be awfully fucking dull if all admin related things just ceased to exist and dealing with stuff like ERP would require the host stepping in every-fucking-time.

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Re: Iamgoofball: Oh shit, I'm going to run.

Postby Caiggas » Sun Feb 24, 2019 1:02 am #478449

Ayy Lemoh wrote:Cutthroat whistleblowing politics so, in the worst case scenario, everyone will be paranoid of each other and the best case scenario is meh.
iamgoofball wrote:perhaps, but when players in this community have almost been removed because nobody wanted to blow the whistle, it's a needed evil


I am concerned that your primary motivator is this personal vendetta.

I was not around for when the situation occurred, so I do not actually know the whole story. As far as I have gleaned from your previous statements, an admin attempted to get you banned for an unpopular option? Is this correct? If not, could you clarify, just to make sure my next point is not wildly off base.

Anyway, assuming I understand what occurred, I would say that it sucks that this happened to you. Really, even if you come off as an asshole, nobody deserves to be banned from a community they enjoy for something that they are innocent of. Good thing you recovered from that, eh?
As a beginning coder in this codebase, I am so glad no one has ever tried to get me banned from github for something I didn't do. It would suck to be in that position.
Good thing the last time someone tried to do that kind of thing, a Maintainer told them to stop...

Overbearing implications aside, I do not believe you have the necessary objectivity to actually be a good headmin. You clearly have a very strong dislike of our administration. Even if there ARE some admins that are corrupt, you are too deep in this to be the one to fix it.
“A choice with a clear optimal answer isn't actually a choice, and therefore isn't fun”

VV Quote in which Goofball agrees to follow the will of the players if he gets elected as headmin. VV
Spoiler:
Caiggas wrote:
iamgoofball wrote:
Caiggas wrote:
iamgoofball wrote:
Caiggas wrote:Now, what if you get a majority of feedback against a decision you have made? Are you just going to accept the feedback but ignore it, are you going to "think about it", but still do what you feel is correct, or are you going to COMPLETELY allow the feedback to dictate your decision regardless of your own opinions? For me to concede those last points, I can ONLY accept the last option. Otherwise you can just veto player democracy anytime you feel like it.
like the whistleblower thing, i'm sure some player will come up with a better alternative for the idea that works out and gives more power to the proletariat player and coder instead of the bourgeois


That's not an answer to the question. Let me put it more plainly. If the majority of player feedback is AGAINST a decision you made, are you or are you not going to change the decision to align with the majority of player feedback? Its a yes or no question.

uh, yes? what part of that wasn't clear


Trying to make sure there is no ambiguity in your answer. I don't want you to accuse me of taking something out of context if I ever have to throw the screenshot of this at you.

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