/tg/Station 13

Bottom post of the previous page:

I'm really mulling over the few interested parties I have at the moment, i'm still unsure if I want to continue with sticky. On one hand, his replies to ahelps are pretty damn good, on the other hand, I really can't see that "solid" state you need to have to be a "good" admin. I would feel 100% responsible if an admin was promoted and then fucked with players. Artyom progress with candidates is going well, as far as I know. Neerti is doing brilliant.

paprika wrote:As far as you both (and gel) as admin canidates, well you're all doing a pretty good job but all I've really seen is just you all fucking around, which isn't bad, I but I don't see enough behind the scenes with admin canidates handling bans for it to be a thing I can weigh in on. I trust Neerti and the other pokemin trainers to judge your competency themselves, they're all the best for that job honestly.

We've (Gel and I) dealt with a few things here and there, but honestly there never arises a ton of problems on Artyom which require a whole lot of attention. I oftentimes watch "problems" happen, but they aren't brought into adminhelps and OOC attention, so they don't require OOC intervention. A prime example of this was a conflict between Lum and Kenzie Smith in R&D; The former got access to print some stuff off, and I think ended up printing a gun for herself. Kenzie didn't like this and tried to take action in the form of a toolbox over Lum's skull. Kenzie eventually got downed and beaten into crit for this. She could have adminhelped it all and sparked an investigation, but it was all kept IC. The only behavior that got boink'd that round was when Kenzie nearly assisted an antag as a non-antag, which didn't net a warning and was a non-issue since she literally dived into the crematorium and died along with the aforementioned antag.

From the very same round, something that did get adminhelped ultimately got resolved by a full admin despite me looking into it first. That's by no means a negative shrug to SubtleGraces (who turned the guilty party into a monkey for their actions) but in some instances where time is of the essence, admins with more experience tend to step in to avoid growing conflict.

I think the time where you'll really see any of the current candidates cut their teeth and prove their worth is when and if they move to Trialmin, since they sometimes won't have the benefit of a more experienced admin to help them out in tough situations.

You guys should really break your trialminning stuff in on sybil, it's more 'fun'.

@bluespace: I wouldn't feel so personally about it. Trialmin is still thin ice, just not as thin as candidacy. Up to you man. Sticky has always had a ton of tact on the forums and stuff.

Bluespace wrote: I really can't see that "solid" state you need to have to be a "good" admin.

I feel this way.
Yeah, yeah, "it's just one mistake", I get it.
It was kind of a big deal.
I like sticky, but even ignoring that whole debacle I don't feel like he'd be good admin material. And even if it was one mistake, it's still indicative of what things might be like.

Maybe the quality of the candidates is indicative of the quality of the trainer, hm?

KingLouisXIV wrote:From the very same round, something that did get adminhelped ultimately got resolved by a full admin despite me looking into it first. That's by no means a negative shrug to SubtleGraces (who turned the guilty party into a monkey for their actions) but in some instances where time is of the essence, admins with more experience tend to step in to avoid growing conflict.

Well, I do apologize for stepping on your toes there. Candidate or not I should have at least discussed the solution before applying it.
Sometimes I forget just how dull sitting around can get when one person is snapping up adminhelps or butting in like some sort of justice-ninja.

Monkey-business aside I'd like to leave some feedback, specifically for who I suppose are our Artyom candidates; TheGel and KingLouis. From what I've seen both display a number of traits I personally find to be beneficial. They're eloquent and can express themselves neutrally, from what conduct I've observed in admin-PMs they appear to have a good handle on presenting themselves and the server in a positive light. This is a stronger quality than some might realize; we've all been at the point where being a little too snarky or accusatory with a player lead to unnecessary conflict, or even spiteful appeals and ban-requests. Diffusing the situation before it becomes necessary to intervene with punishment is perhaps my absolute favorite thing to see in a potential candidate.

Regarding some of our Sybil candidates, however, I'm not so impressed. It goes without saying that Nalar knows his stuff; any issues (if you could even call them that) we've had were calmly discussed. I'd say his opinions have been enlightening to me even during a disagreement and I can't complain about having someone who represents a slightly different style of administration to bounce off of. StickyMayhem and MrStonedOne, if you'll forgive me for being direct, could use some work with their player interactions. I mean no offense when I point out that perhaps your tone could afford to be more professional/neutral. However other than that they're both quite amiable and very open to discussion and asking questions; my complaint may prove to be without merit as they grow into their role.

Regarding any infractions; well, we do expect Admins to take the high road when it comes to in-game behavior. I won't say anything more about the current situation with StickyMayhem other than that PMing someone you're directly involved with, even if you're the only admin on, is about the worst possible decision an administrator can make. Hopefully the outcry here and in the complaints section serves to illustrate that danger.

Subtle wrote:

KingLouisXIV wrote:From the very same round, something that did get adminhelped ultimately got resolved by a full admin despite me looking into it first. That's by no means a negative shrug to SubtleGraces (who turned the guilty party into a monkey for their actions) but in some instances where time is of the essence, admins with more experience tend to step in to avoid growing conflict.

Well, I do apologize for stepping on your toes there. Candidate or not I should have at least discussed the solution before applying it.
Sometimes I forget just how dull sitting around can get when one person is snapping up adminhelps or butting in like some sort of justice-ninja.

No it's totally cool man, no apologies necessary or i'll bop u one gurland I definitely appreciate what you did. It set an example about what to do and presented a potential option for similar incidents in the future.

bandit wrote:I was told that Dawn of Man (Mugen Lloris) either was or was going to be an admin candidate, and I know very well that player opinion has absolutely no bearing on how this works. So apologies if this is the wrong thread for this, but I wanted this to be as clear as possible: he is possibly the absolute worst possible player on the server to be an admin candidate, let alone a player with his current playstyle, and this is causing me to seriously doubt the judgment of the admins and the current trialmin process.

Below is a list of behaviors that I believe are unacceptable from a regular player, let alone someone in a position of authority:

- In almost every round, harasses me including but not limited to:
-- Creepy sexual comments that toe the line of being bannable for rape. There is ban precedent in the past that both line-toeing behavior and creepy sexual behavior is the kind of thing that we do not want on our server. (Should go without saying, but does not respond to being told to stop.)
-- Constantly hanging around my character and making aforementioned sexual comments. This sometimes rises to the point of ruining my round when I am antag, for obvious reasons. He also recognizes my character by appearance even when I play characters that aren't supposed to be me (Clown, mime, etc) and starts the harassment then.
-- Does the same in OOC and on the forums. This included when he was named as admin candidate. At one point he posted that I should "Stay off of Sibyl."
-- From what I gather he does this to other players too but I don't think to the same degree as he does to me, and obviously I am not in the best position to comment on other players' experience.

- Almost exclusively plays assistant, in a griefy way. When not playing assistant, uses that role slot to graytide, often to the point of messing with or outright ruining my round. Does not make any attempt to follow the chain of command or do their job. Recent example: I was HoS, he was lawyer. He does no actual lawyering and instead spends the entire shift trying to interfere with my operations of security and shit up the security radio channel to the point of being unusable. I go to get him demoted at the HoP line (the HoP agrees once I explain the situation) and he attacks me, steals my energy gun, shoots me with it, runs away, and then suicides.

So this has moved forward and he was admin observing earlier today. I see that absolutely none of this -- and it isn't just me, Paprika said the same thing, as well as several players in OOC when Bluespace originally brought this up -- has been taken into account. I get a weaksauce PM on the forums: "What can he do differently?" and I answered "Be a completely different person," because, well, see above. Needless to say, he has not become a completely different person and his playstyle has not changed one bit.

This is exactly what I mean when I said "player opinion has zero bearing."

Are they just pulling admin candidates off the "Shitty players" list or something? Christ, first Sticky now this, get your shit together admins.

Sticky isn't even that bad and his past behavior did not hint at him pulling the grey tide shit even a little bit, he's been nothing but nice and tactful, especially on the forums in OOC, so don't be a dick and stop crucifying him for one fucking thing holy fuck.

Sticky is indeed nothing but nice
I'll never be able to imagine him as an admin though.
Cool guy, but I just don't see it.

i dont know if ive been smoking something or what but ive never really thought of sticky as being a nice person.
recently though he's been pretty cool on the forums but it's hard to get rid of that original impression and i agree that i can't really envision them as an admin.

Taking admins from the shitty players list is a time honored tradition.

Is Dawn of Man a legitimate candidate or was it some awful joke?

No go look at bluespace's feedback thread, I'm pretty sure they're steam friends or some retarded shit because I cannot imagine how anyone would legitimately respond to DoM's asskissing and completely ignore their past, shitty behavior otherwise

Like imagine if CDB started acting nice all the time for a week and then asked to be a trialmin? Would they really get it?

paprika wrote: Like imagine if CDB started acting nice all the time for a week and then asked to be a trialmin? Would they really get it?

Yes.

This isn't even CDB tier, it's more like if Bee York if he wasn't permabanned started sucking up all of a sudden (but still gray tided exactly the same level) and got admincandidate for it. That is literally the tier of player we are dealing with.

Bluespace decided not to continue with me, saying I should wait for the next admin cycle.

I've taken the feedback from here to heart and will try to improve using it over the coming months.

(That wasn't directed at you, Sticky. For the record I don't have any problem with you. Yeah, you fucked up, but lots of people fuck up, just are lucky enough not to fuck up in such highly-visible ways.)

I am a bit dissapointed it was decided not to continue with you even if for now. So far I liked him. I am glad you understand why dawn of man was a shit choice. It's one thing if they might have had a few notes here and there, but history is still pretty fucking important. Does it outright say that a person won't be a goodmin? Nope as we saw with you bluespace, but when someone has notes about being a creepy shit, then pls no.

But bluespace isn't a goodmin, he almost made DoM a fucking candidate. Bluespace's history could have probably told you that before you made him an admin, and look at him now, trying to justify a complete shitter being considered for admin and his history being completely ignored because irrelevancy which it's fucking not. I'm not sure why bluespace is a pokemin trainer in the first place since he's not exactly been around all summer like some of the admins more qualified for the job.

paprika wrote:But bluespace isn't a goodmin, he almost made DoM a fucking candidate. Bluespace's history could have probably told you that before you made him an admin, and look at him now, trying to justify a complete shitter being considered for admin and his history being completely ignored because irrelevancy which it's fucking not. I'm not sure why bluespace is a pokemin trainer in the first place since he's not exactly been around all summer like some of the admins more qualified for the job.

You're completely right.
I'll ask adminbus to give the power to someone else.

Put me in your signature next week too please.

That de-escalated quickly.

I'm glad that I haven't received any nasty complaints thus far, and it's relieving to see that people have a decent amount of faith in me. I'm always open to feedback and I encourage anyone to contact me personally about any concerns or tips. I feel that I'm finally getting comfortable with the admin tools and investigation process, and it's only a matter of time until it becomes second nature and I can handle issues quickly and efficiently.

Will you ban atmos techs who replace plasma vent pipes with manual valves at roundstart though? I have to make sure atmosbus bias doesn't play into your ability to administrate gel.

http://cancer killing /tg/.com/i/s1TH8z5RMMvB
this doesnt apply to cdb because i hate him

>wanting to be an admin

Why be an admin when you can have coder flags and basically be an admin without responsibility

Aran knew this before any of us

Coding is where it's at

^exactly
niknak will be on your back all day but that's the price you pay

Aran has +BAN again and nobody can explain why

speaking of iamgoofball (oh we weren't talking about him?) whatever he is, he shouldn't be
he's vastly overestimating his position as a DJ and has interfered with admin affairs and answered ahelps when all he's supposed to do is play music
speaking of which, the music he plays isn't even good and it's usually really loud
i don't see why he has these specific privileges but they're causing more problems than they're worth and it bothers me a lot that this is even a thing

I'm legit assbothered that we had to mute him from asay on Artyom when he wouldn't be quiet while we were trying to look into a thing.

Someone asked for an admin or something in ooc and goofball answered.
Every single time I log on, goofball is trying to "handle" something in asay, or is "investigating" something.
I even heard he was in fucking adminbus doing this.

This is too far. Stop.

Man, if these clowns can be admin, what's stopping me from going for it? I mean, I'm twice the bozo they are!

While goofball has done some good he has shown himself to try and act like an admin instead of a glorified DJ. The fact that he needed to be muted from asay is stupid, and the fact that the job and the title exists is even more so. It'd be one thing if he distanced himself from admin affairs and played midis, but all I saw was him trying to get involved with admin things, and hovering on #adminbus, and seeing himself as something that he isn't.

I can confirm what anton/danno/panda/miggles have said and I agree.

Goof, you got asked by multiple admins, multiple times, in multiple situations to not be involved with admin stuff. Even HBL said to calm down when we were talking in adminbus about something.

alright, so, here's what I have to say:

1. why did sos put me in the TXT, I don't fucking know why I'm in there, I thought it was a one round thing.

2. yeah alright i accept i need to sit in the background and play music and not do anything else

3. there's no fucking volume slider on midis. have you ever used play-global-sound before? if so you'd know there's no way to adjust volume on sounds. with oggs and shit i can adjust it with audacity, but not with midis. midis are stuck at whatever crazy ass volume they're at

i'll yell at sos to take me out of the txt just as soon as I catch him when he's on

yeah your actions are definitely sos' fault right
cmon man.

i was just pointing out that I shouldn't be in the txt. see number 2.

When there is no volume slider, it means you should manually change the volume of the midis in an audio editing program if you want to play them over and over, not blame it on BYOND. When playing sounds is the full extent of your "job", you should make sure they're good sounds.

miggles did you read the part about how I can't adjust the volumes of midis with exterior programs?

From what I can find there's no way for me to adjust the volume of a MIDI. If there's a way link me.

paprika wrote:Ahahaha okay well mugen lloris is a huge grey tide griefer please do not give him the time of day until his play style has improved at least a tiny bit. The few months I spent on sybil, he was up there on the list of people I'd generally avoid because of their tendency to grief and shit as greyshirt. That's my input on DoM.

I haven't seen a lot of him, but the few times I saw him he was greytiding, yeah. I agree

I don't think I've ever greytided.

Following paprka's feedback, i'm arranging Leibniz taking on the AdminTrainer mantle.

Ah jeez. At least I knew Bluespace existed. Atleast I've SEEN Bluespace.
though I guess I haven't played on sybil in "a while"

Well you wanted an oldfag and you got one of the oldest ones.
Now you don't want an oldfag?


????

you people and your semantics.

TheGel, Exalted12, and Stickymayhem have been ACing a lot on Sibyl because they ask and I say 'sure', and I've been rather impressed so far. They're not gigantic assholes, and I cannot stress how important that is enough. Seriously. They like, help people, and want to do fun things, and you know, have energy to do stuff and all that. They've learned quick and understand when to hold back, unlike, say, me.

I've given Excessiveuseofcobby a few AC rounds too despite some internal opposition expressed to me about them, based on how they play. But when they're ACing I haven't seen anything negative so hey.

A+ would be annoyed politely asked every round by for temporary powers.

gel is cool guy, fullmin dat big bitch

You mean trialmin.