Differing treatment rulewise for sec vs a regular player

[Bibliodewangus]

(I am not making this thread to solely discuss my ban or really to focus on my ban at all, I want to use my situation as a foundation to build a discussion on how these types of situations should be handled both for admins and regular player. I have so far been unable to receive an answer as to why in one instance it is not only ok but justified for someone to attack a man who broke a window with a blow torch, but in another instance punching a security officer who is disobeying head's orders by kidnapping people into maint [along with a host of other antagonistic behavior including allowing people to choke out cargo techs and hack doors] is not only unacceptable from an IC perspective but is also bannable OOC. From here on I will simply repost the OP of my thread in general. Thanks for your feedback and let's keep the slapfighting to a minimum.)


Hi all I received a dayban yesterday and I am not very clear on how my situation is different from other people in the round who caused equivalent or greater harm while the admins insisted what they did was 100% justified.
Could everyone please take a moment to check out my ban appeal? it is here viewtopic.php?f=7&t=1595
I think this is important for all of us because it could help set a better precdent in handling rules being unfairly applied to some more than others
I'm sure all of you have had experiences with admins letting some people get away with murder while other's get punished for minute infractions


I apologize if I posted this in the wrong board, I understand that the public cannot discuss bans in the ban appeal forum, and that the policy is forum is not for bans so this seemed the best spot. If there is another section this post belongs in, please move it to the appropriate. Thank you and I appreciate everyone's time and feedback

[UtterNewbie]

This is your deleted/moved thread http://tgstation13.org/phpBB/viewtopic.php?f=25&t=1596

Also posting in a doomed thread. I would refer you to forum rules but you're obviously distressed by your recent banning to the point where you decided it would be a swell idea to post in 4 different forum categories about how your greytiding earned you just a 24h ban. So Instead I recommend you to take a break and relax for the day and come back to argue stronger the next day.

In the unlikely event that this thread does not get moved/deleted again for the same exact reason as your last one:

I fully agree! Security should get treated the same as every other department and be allowed the same levels of powergamin- I mean role playing like other jobs. For example science going as far as to role play with 3rd party tools in telescience. Or just redecorating the brig and adding a few more airlocks, forcefields, walls.

[Bibliodewangus]

This is your deleted/moved thread http://tgstation13.org/phpBB/viewtopic.php?f=25&t=1596

Also posting in a doomed thread. I would refer you to forum rules but you're obviously distressed by your recent banning to the point where you decided it would be a swell idea to post in 4 different forum categories about how your greytiding earned you just a 24h ban. So Instead I recommend you to take a break and relax for the day and come back to argue stronger the next day.

In the unlikely event that this thread does not get moved/deleted again for the same exact reason as your last one:

I fully agree! Security should get treated the same as every other department and be allowed the same levels of powergamin- I mean role playing like other jobs. For example science going as far as to role play with 3rd party tools in telescience. Or just redecorating the brig and adding a few more airlocks, forcefields, walls.

Jordie told me to post this in policy. Thanks for linking to the old thread so everyone can get caught up. I'm glad you agree, this thread is not only about my situation. It really isn't at all. My question is WHY security was able to act so brazenly without consequence, yet any response is not only an IC issue but an OOCly bannable offense? It does not seem consistent with the rules. I would mostly like an explanation so I can see where I'm wrong, since so far no one has said why.

[Lo6a4evskiy]

Usually people complain and admins are too hard on people, now this. I think that it's just fine.

You've been stealing and breaking in during cult round and you're surprised to be beaten up by people who you stole from and law enforcements?

[cedarbridge]

>The most heavily OOC regulated department needs more OOC regulation

No. Full stop.

[Bibliodewangus]

You guys are missing the point. I have NO issue with how I got beaten up or anything from an IC or OOC perspective. I don't want any of these people to get in trouble. The thing that I'm pissed about was that while these people were allowed to retaliate to minor offense ie (break a window) by almost killing me with a welder, when I had hit my breaking point and nearly been killed by a sec officer I finally threw some punches and got a dayban. What is the difference between me punching and the sec officer beating me or the engineer attacking me with a welding torch? I'm ok with what they did but it makes no sense that I was banned for doing the exact same thing.

[Psyentific]

If you're breaking into a department, you're valid for everything short of murder. You were breaking into engineering, the engineer repelled you with engineering. As for the whole shitcurity/cargonia thing, I don't want to touch that with a ten foot pole.

[Steelpoint]

If your intentionally antagonizing Security during a cult round, one of the most stressful rounds in the game, do not act surprised when Security brings the boot down.

[Bibliodewangus]

If your intentionally antagonizing Security during a cult round, one of the most stressful rounds in the game, do not act surprised when Security brings the boot down.

Never once did we antagonize security. Ever. There were many many times where sec told me to stop for searches, strips, questionings, beatings etc. Every time that happened I was more than cordial. I even offered to let them implant me and the HoS said "that's good enough" and walked away. Later he accused me of being cult anyways and officer Cara let a mime choke me out.

[Psyentific]

Stealing entire departments while fortifying the cargo bay and being shifty fucks counts as antagonizing security. Trust me, I'm an expert on that.

[Bibliodewangus]

Stealing entire departments while fortifying the cargo bay and being shifty fucks counts as antagonizing security. Trust me, I'm an expert on that.

It wasn't theft we had the permission of the HoP who had gifted us control of the now vacant engineering department. I wasn't shifty in any other way.

[Lo6a4evskiy]

What is the difference between me punching and the sec officer beating me or the engineer attacking me with a welding torch?

Engineer was beating up an asshole who broke into his department for a genius reason of "I need this item that doesn't belong to me but if the owner isn't here it's okay to steal it", you were beating up an officer who was legitimately arresting a criminal. Equivalent of that would be beating up a chef for making food or MD for healing people.

It wasn't theft we had the permission of the HoP who had gifted us control of the now vacant engineering department. I wasn't shifty in any other way.

You said in FNR that you "needed a fireaxe" (why?) and then you went and broke into engineering, then instead of just running away from an engineer who attacked you, protecting his own department, you decided to fight back instead. If that's not shitty, I don't know what is.

[Fragnostic]

I feel it was fair. I mean, if an engineer is attacking you or anyone for that reason, either retaliate or get out of there. The fastest someone can do is attack, just like the engineer. It's a lot easier to attack someone than talk it out to understand. And what can you expect when someone fucking hits you over the head with a lit welder?

Personally, I would run away, with the fireaxe, yeah. But if I broke into this guys department, during a shift with cult activity, then that means I'm up to no good. But since the enemy is unknown, instead of shoving and tabling them out of my department, I'd convince them to leave by denting their skull with a wrench. Don't break into someone's department during station-wide panic and expect not to get a welder in your mouth. But if someone spots you and elders you, they could also be bad guy choosing to attack instead of talk it out.

[Bibliodewangus]

What is the difference between me punching and the sec officer beating me or the engineer attacking me with a welding torch?

Engineer was beating up an asshole who broke into his department for a genius reason of "I need this item that doesn't belong to me but if the owner isn't here it's okay to steal it", you were beating up an officer who was legitimately arresting a criminal. Equivalent of that would be beating up a chef for making food or MD for healing people.

It wasn't theft we had the permission of the HoP who had gifted us control of the now vacant engineering department. I wasn't shifty in any other way.

You said in FNR that you "needed a fireaxe" (why?) and then you went and broke into engineering, then instead of just running away from an engineer who attacked you, protecting his own department, you decided to fight back instead. If that's not shitty, I don't know what is.

Security's job is to tell you why you're being arrested and actually communicate not just bust in, tase a few people, strip one and run out without saying a word. Yea that was REAL professional.

[Bibliodewangus]

And then when we asked why they did it over comms the warden said if we kept asking questions he'd hit us in the face with his baton. Great security.

[Lo6a4evskiy]

Being incompetent is not a bannable offense, however.

Plus you have to understand that to them you were a suspicious QM that has a pretty high chance of being a cultist, who commits crimes and adds more fuel to the fire they gotta put out.

[Bibliodewangus]

Being incompetent is not a bannable offense, however.

Plus you have to understand that to them you were a suspicious QM that has a pretty high chance of being a cultist, who commits crimes and adds more fuel to the fire they gotta put out.

Why do none of you people read my story? Not only did I give them multiple searches of me and my office to prove I'm not cult, I LED THEM TO A CULTIST CE! And after that they ignored the CE and refused to decult him. But yea I was being suspicious because I built doors so that the cult could not bumrush cargo and make it part of their empire.

[Saegrimr]

Why do none of you people read my story?

Probably because you've been making Tom Clancy's works look like a grade school english assignment.

[Psyentific]

Why do none of you people read my story?

Because tl;dr

[Bibliodewangus]

So your inability to read 5 paragraphs justifies everything? More like we know who is friends with who. I have posted a concise version which everyone ignored and then called me an asshole for building a door. I bet you build doors all the time fucker.

[callanrockslol]

You were being shits and didn't get dunked because their were bigger problems, tou hulked the fuck out ot dunked for hulk smash

NOBODY GIVES A SHIT ABOUT YOUR 10,000 WORD JUSTIFICATION WHEN YOY WERE IN THE WRONG IN THE FURST PLACE

[cedarbridge]

So your inability to read 5 paragraphs justifies everything? More like we know who is friends with who. I have posted a concise version which everyone ignored and then called me an asshole for building a door. I bet you build doors all the time fucker.

I read your whole diatribe. Twice even because I'm into self-harm apparently. You fortified cargo and locked everyone out. Everyone. As a sec officer, I'd be instantly concerned about this sort of Cargonian separatism bullshit right out the gate. Cargo is a civilian position and security is not. You assumed that a sec officer was a cultist because cultists existed somewhere on the station and one of them arrested you. You also felt you had the right to defend cargo against security because they had a mime hack the doors open to your cargofort. This somehow justified attacking a security officer.

That's the tl:dr. You attacked a sec officer for a flimsy justification and got mad that you got dunked for it after creating enough suspicion that you were up to something to get sec to drop the boot on you. Two claps.

[elyina]

I'm closing this because you created this as part of your tirade for getting a day ban. Any more threads and you're going to get a forum ban.