/tg/Station 13

Can we please please stop using this term to describe animals which are player-controlled. I know "MY IMMERSION" has become a meme but I seriously get dragged out of character every time I hear someone use this term.

sen·tient
ˈsen(t)SH(ē)ənt/
adjective
able to perceive or feel things.

Nearly all animals are sentient. It makes no sense to use this term to describe a monkey that happens to be walking around, as a monkey that is not walking around is still sentient by definition.

If a monkey is walking around, he's subject to mutilation from the seemingly anti-"sentient" crew. If a borg gets a law to exterminate non-humans, they're generally going to ignore the uncontrolled apes in the genetics pens. Currently this doesn't make sense from a roleplaying perspective, it's simply a result of people knowing that if a monkey is running around, then they are controlled by a player and therefore could be a threat, as opposed to the other uncontrolled ones.

So what's the solution? A simple fluff change: All roundstart monkeys and other animals are lobotomized and/or sedated by NT before the shift starts, due to safety concerns.
This explains why they have no reaction to their surroundings, and why borgs often show no regard to them -- they're no threat due to their lowered mental state.
This also gives justification for the crew's suspicion of player-controlled monkeys. They have not been lobotomized, meaning that they are not part of the initial NT ape shipment and therefore suspicious.
There's a third fluff advantage. One of our fluff Syndicate member groups is the ARC -- Animal Rights Coalition, who opposes NT because of their abuse of animals. Currently, there's, uh... not that much mistreatment of animals, to be honest (though Xenobio can kind of turn into a horrifying factory farm). Mandatory lobotomization of station animals gives the ARC a more valid case against NT.

We could just use "sapient" instead.

...That's just a synonym!! It's the exact same thing. It still doesn't make any sense because it doesn't explain any of the behaviors I mentioned.

So monkey cubes make lobodimized monkies? That doesnt make much sense to me.

deathhoof wrote:So monkey cubes make lobodimized monkies? That doesnt make much sense to me.

You question the logic behind the state the monkeys from the cubes and not the logic behind monkey cubes in general?

How about we call player controlled monkeys, "Intelligent."
I bet you're also the kind of person that dies whenever someone says 'dark side' of the moon, rather than, 'far side' of the moon.

Cheridan wrote:...That's just a synonym!! It's the exact same thing. It still doesn't make any sense because it doesn't explain any of the behaviors I mentioned.

They're only synonyms in the same way that stupid, moron, and idiot are synonyms.
To the layman they mean the same thing, to the scientist they mean different levels of a scale. (FYI: for the above example its a persons intellect compared to the average intellect of an average human of a certain age. e.g. a moron is someone who is as intelligent as a normal average seven year old)

Silavite wrote:How about we call player controlled monkeys, "Intelligent."
I bet you're also the kind of person that dies whenever someone says 'dark side' of the moon, rather than, 'far side' of the moon.

You're missing the point. WHY are they magically more intelligent than these other monkeys on the station? Picking another word out of http://www.thesaurus.com/browse/sentient?s=t doesn't solve anything. It's not the word that's the problem, it's the implication that "Yes, sometimes, rarely, monkeys actually act like monkeys and move around. But most of they just stand and move one tile's worth of space every 3.5 seconds. Also, if they're moving, you should kill them, even though they're just monkeys!"

It's not about terminology. It's about ludonarrative dissonance.

All monkeys we start with are lobotomized, as are the ones they dehydrate and cram into cubes.

They aren't "monkeys" at all, in fact. They are

Real monkeys wouldn't let you pull them around and shit like the genetics or virology monkeys (monkey cubes) do, they would be screaming and jumping around and throwing their shit at you unless they were doped up. I believe the assumption is that monkey cube monkeys aren't real monkeys, or they're braindead, because when you turn them into humans in generics they act braindead, except this doesn't happen when you turn a regular human into a monkey.

So I really don't see any problem with people saying SENTIENT MONKEY or whatever, I would freak out too if the previously passive monkeys for experiments started scrambling into vents and shit. I would shit my pants, monkeys are scary.

Violaceus wrote:Best way would be making nonplayer monkeys behave "like" monkeys...

Like running from people, breaking random shit, throwing barman's beers all around, making a nest and stealing shiny shit/food through vents...

I want this to happen. It would be funny as fuck. Like poly but ten times more annoying.

I too would love monkeys with animal behaviours, but they would then be far too raucous to easily use as test animals, so that's clearly not going to happen.

(Unless genetics and virology are then equipped with a button that floods sleep toxin in the animal pen)

this is a really specific and silly thing to get upset about
monkies are obviously in a constant state of braindeadness
they're not lobotomized, they're just lacking an active soul, just like normal braindeadness
which explains why, when a player enters a monkey body, they can behave normally

It'd be nice if catatonic crew members behaved like monkeys, slowly wandering around and drooling occasionally.

Cheridan wrote:...That's just a synonym!! It's the exact same thing. It still doesn't make any sense because it doesn't explain any of the behaviors I mentioned.

its in no way the same thing

Cheimon wrote:It'd be nice if catatonic crew members behaved like monkeys, slowly wandering around and drooling occasionally.

as long as its catatonics only and not braindeads I would love to see a catatonic crew member slowly throw themselves out the escape airlock

Sapient isn't a synonym of Sentient.
Sentient means, as you said, "able to feel".
Sapient means "Intelligent", "Possessing of Wisdom", or "Human". Those things (or at least, the first and last) are literally what people are using the term "Sentient Monkeys" to express.

This is all irrelevant though because no fluff explanation as to why a sapient monkey is unusual will really work, because there's no way a lobotomised monkey should spontaneously be able to stop being so, and yet they still will.
If you must explain it away to yourself, imagine they're usually sedated.

I like how once every few months we get a guy who goes around and necros a bunch of old threads

We have that thing to generate npc crewmen, that do random crew shit, why not the same for monkeys and other simple animals?

It would be neat.

Wyzack wrote:I like how once every few months we get a guy who goes around and necros a bunch of old threads

it is great to come back to a converstation after a while get a fresh perspective

Wyzack wrote:I like how once every few months we get a guy who goes around and necros a bunch of old threads

Man I wish I'd noticed that

I could tell this thread was old by the fact Miggles posted on it.

Just say they mutants or "higher reasoning" or something.

Not hating, I agree that there is nothing wrong with bringing up old topics to discuss them more, I just find it interesting

Just treat Sentient Monkeys how they were treated in System Shock 2.

Amusing, confusing and concerning. Until they rise up with their mental powers and start throwing giant Ice and Fire balls at you.

Then shoot them.

monkeys with fireball would be pretty cool.

We need a monkey SNPC

lol nice necro

Jacquerel wrote: If you must explain it away to yourself, imagine they're usually sedated.

Yes, sedation is a reasonable explanation for both the inactivity of monkeys and the player response to player-controlled monkeys: "Hey, that monkey isn't sedated. Better catch him and send him back to genetics!" This is a good solution.
The problem is that's not the terminology that people use in game to reference them which is the whole point

miggles wrote:this is a really specific and silly thing to get upset about
monkies are obviously in a constant state of braindeadness
they're not lobotomized, they're just lacking an active soul, just like normal braindeadness
which explains why, when a player enters a monkey body, they can behave normally

So your fluff for monkeys is that they're inactive because they don't have souls (why?)
and then sometimes they're animated by human souls (why?) and then when people see this they generally murder them (why?)

good job on your coherent SCIENCE FICTION setting, worldbuilder!!

I always thought they came pre lobotomised

Everyone knows souls are made of nanobots IDIOT.

Welcome to the CYBER FUTURE.

I was really hoping this thread would just fade into obscurity(which I know I'm not helping by posting), but in for a penny, in for a pound I suppose.

It should probably be put on a basis on whether they can speak clearly or not

- No speech (not a humanoid sapient, just a intelligent animal)
- Speech (Non-human, no better than a lizard)

Monkey attachable voice synthesizers and monkey (rolling pun-pun traitor) round-start roles when?

Monkeys should be able to use a spell that summons a wad of shit to their hand to toss at people randomly.

You necro'd a necro'd thread.

Necro-ception.

it's a good idea tho

oh yea I was going to reply to this
cheridan doesn't know what sentient means clearly

deathhoof wrote:So monkey cubes make lobodimized monkies? That doesnt make much sense to me.

just wanna interject here he got his account super hardcore deleted, damn son

too bad baw, i'm head of lore now and everyone has to refer to non-player monkeys as "sedated" or "lobotomized" or else they're non-canon

non-canon characters will be deleted, returned to bluespace, and erased from the timestream

Cheridan wrote:too bad baw, i'm head of lore now and everyone has to refer to non-player monkeys as "sedated" or "lobotomized" or else they're non-canon

non-canon characters will be deleted, returned to bluespace, and erased from the timestream

Sorry but the three head lore masters do not approve of this

Cheridan wrote:too bad baw, i'm head of lore now and everyone has to refer to non-player monkeys as "sedated" or "lobotomized" or else they're non-canon

non-canon characters will be deleted, returned to bluespace, and erased from the timestream

Sorry you're still only a lore assistant, you have to work your way up

it'd really suck if some not canon people came into this thread and started naysaying me. well thankfully they don't exist in this multiverse so nobody has done that yet

You're in your own lore sandbox to prevent you from messing up the real time lines sorry

On a meta level it works, because NPC monkeys run on a very simple AI and aren't sentient to any stretch of the definition until a player gets control of one.

Oh, I guess there isn't a problem then, since we're a meta server and not an RP server. As long as things work on a meta level we're good!

>thinking you guys even have any idea about lore

lmao yea right