/tg/Station 13

can we have a semi serious discussion about this

i don't mean the code, the policies, etc. i just mean the general encompassing aura of playing on sybil. do you see people roleplay? do you make an effort to roleplay at all?

i don't know how to just magically make people roleplay by roleplaying myself. i do this as much as possible but trying to roleplay and not having it returned because everyone else is too busy playing to win for greentext/greentext denial is abysmal.

does anyone even find roleplay fun at all on this server?

i know there's problems with metafriending and stuff in the past, but those days were vastly superior because everything didn't get immediately stale and there was more emergent roleplay scenarios on the old server versus the same boring 'guess the game mode' i see every day on sybil.

i know people want that boring epic mafia in space crap, but scaredy doesn't, and it seems like every time he tries to change it he gets told to fuck off and he's ruining /tg/

really though, this forum is nearly abandoned, and it shouldn't be. i don't consider /tg/ dead when the code is severely different, when assistants don't get grey jumpsuits or sec gets their clothes changed, i consider /tg/ dead when the roleplay is gone.

should we make antags less about their objectives(outside of like, nuke op and wizard which are traditional 'breaks' from the monotony of long roleplay rounds that are meant to be intense action)?

/endrant

Smaller population tends to lead to better RP, hence why I normally play on Basil.

Also, "less about their objectives" seems to be going in the direction of objectiveless antag á la Bay, which...tends to result in heavily repetitive ideas.

>roleplay
>/tg/station

pffhahahha, no. at this point goon roleplays more than we do

Kraso wrote:>roleplay
>/tg/station

pffhahahha, no. at this point goon roleplays more than we do

No, no I think we have more role play occur on /tg/ than on Goon station. Though to be fair on Goonstation you're just all just different colours of assistants doing whatever you want to a extent.

The problem is not the lack of roleplay, its the standard its held to.

Lower population rounds tend to elicit more higher quality role play because the rounds are less chaotic and more orderly. Whereas on higher pop rounds things are moving so fast that its really difficult to keep up with any higher form of roleplay, combine that with the wide amount of antagonists shooting up the place as well.

I try to roleplay as much as I can, though as stated, alot of people seemed to be focused on other things. People around sybil have focused more on who will be antag, getting weapons, and who will give you a reason to kill them. I think roleplay is also pushed further away when people tend to take IC matters OOC, with most adminhelping a small situation making it into some large drawn out discussion. If its something like saying a funny joke and they reply with tossing you out an airlock, I'd understand that would be an adminworthy situation. What I don't get is how you expect someone to not beat you senseless when you constantly push them over, try to take their things, or reply to their "Rude remarks" by stabbing at their eyes. Sure, I get that if you were a traitor, which in that case, if you act like a problem, you should be treated like one. Besides that, I really miss all the actual stories behind characters, now all I see around the station are lazy characters, who don't even bother with a last name or name themselves something like "Charles Barkley,*Insert Generic Stereotypical Black name here*, Rob ust". I think we aren't too far from some idiot coming in with the name "Xenosmash283*.

On a side note, I agree that we should take out reasons for valid, but in roleplaying terms, if you intent on killing someone's pet, the owner should be able to beat or murder them over it. Yes, it seems a bit much and I'd agree icly that they'd need to be arrested for murder, but Icly, the person that does it knows very well that the dog or other pet probably won't be revived and the idiot they murder will be tossed into a cloner*as long as they don't go too far and space/gib the body*.

I would like to preface this by saying that despite the fact that Rob Ust may be in some people's eyes the perfect example of the problem at hand, he is a good goy who can do no wrong and is really just indicative of the larger issue.

High populations (To my knowledge, the highest populations on SS13) will always lead to having lower standards for everything simply because of the fact that it is difficult if not impossible to enforce 'decent' standards on 90 players, 30 of whom as assistants running rampant around the station like the space indigents that they are. It can, and has, reached a point wherein the game is noticeably different between high and low populations, with the former representing the horrors of what could even be called overpopulation. The player attitude is so different - And I say this as having played on both for a fair amount of time - That there is practically different server culture at this point.

People roleplay on Sybil. I’m sure there are people who would like there to be more roleplay on Sybil, but it’s just that it’s really not an option with you have greyshirt mcdisarmspam and his 20 rainbow-suited amigos running around looting everything, getting mass-converted to rev, and all that shit. It's not even the fault of said assistants, it's the fault of the high fucking population. The player count is the root issue and will not be fixed because people don't want to migrate servers.

tldr; highpop and good rp don't mix, if you want rp, go on basil - if you want action/meta, go on sybil

High pop is so awful I simply don't play if the pop is over 60-70.

The big thing you see with most people (me included) is that most RP goes out the window when shit actually starts to go down.

I think mainly it's because people are less accepting of dying/getting their round ended out of their control.
It's pretty hilarious to get killed for some convoluted reason, but most people just get angry about it now.

I honestly don't know how to seriously encourage better, more pervasive RP, short of enforcing it (which is in my opinion a terrible idea).

Judging from everyones reasoning for the lack of roleplay (overpopulation) the only solution I can think of is a hard population cap on each server.

I used to be very much against this idea, but as time goes on I think it might be for the best.

Loonikus wrote:Judging from everyones reasoning for the lack of roleplay (overpopulation) the only solution I can think of is a hard population cap on each server.

It's not the population that's the problem, it's the shitty "muh valids" playerbase that tries to kill everything that moves. The admins should just crack down on these assholes and they'll stop.

mikecari wrote:

Loonikus wrote:Judging from everyones reasoning for the lack of roleplay (overpopulation) the only solution I can think of is a hard population cap on each server.

It's not the population that's the problem, it's the shitty "muh valids" playerbase that tries to kill everything that moves. The admins should just crack down on these assholes and they'll stop.

That would be a much better, but much harder option. Instead of relying on infallible code we would have to rely on server administration being up to the task. A lot of people wouldn't take that kind of crackdown without a lot of kicking and screaming. I do think your right though, I'd much rather see MUH VALIDS idiots getting dunked than having to put a population limit.

mikecari wrote:The admins should just crack down on these assholes and they'll stop.

10/10, get a giggle every time.

Man this goes back and forth constantly.

You can run gimmicks at times and get people to play along. Probably the occasional emote. But nothing more involved than that.

It's hard to feel the immersions when you have DEY DIN DO NUFFIN black caricatures every round, people spouting about dank maymays, and some legendarily awful midis playing.

That last bit isn't that important given that you can just mute them but holy hell I can't remember the last time I actually heard FTL music or something else thematically appropriate.

Saegrimr wrote:

mikecari wrote:The admins should just crack down on these assholes and they'll stop.

10/10, get a giggle every time.

Man this goes back and forth constantly.

Saegrimr is right. As soon as the admins start enforcing roleplay or people acting like idiots they get called NO FUN OMFG

I've even done this in the past. I think it's how the admins approach it. It's the status quo on /tg/ station to act like a dipshit, so you can't just come out and start banning people (COUGH COUGH SAEGRIMR COUGH) but instead spend a concentrated effort observing rounds and GENTLY COERCING PEOPLE THROUGH ADMIN PMS to not act like assholes or be memesters. Otherwise they feel like they're being singled out.

Then, after a month or so of this, start handing out bans for continued behavior since it'll be the status quo to actually roleplay and play ss13 instead of le epic mafia in spess

You know?

warning dickheads for a while before singling them out does sound reasonable

Not trying to start shit, but this is ironic coming from you paprika, The highest form of RP I've seen from you is playing an antilizard-racist nearly every round we share.
I don't think I get what you want from the community, What I see, is a mixture of silent vigilante justice, and the rest being twenty or so retards running gimmick characters.

Myself included, to be fair.
I play the Owlbear, A method actor who refuses to break character unless forced, playing the role of a hulk-like fictional superhero. RAWWWWRWHOOOOO!!!
The Gronk, A semiretarded janitor who angers quickly but is deliberately bad at combat
And Ziggy two-shoes, Your average screaming lunatic on SS13. It's kinda my ironic character.

i usually only rp to a higher degree on sibyl if im in a tightknit department like cargo or service
otherwise there just isnt enough time to keep up with everything
though i still maintain my personality i just dont talk as much or make as many jokes etc
on badger its usually lowpop enough that you can have fun running gimmicks and shit without some random coming to fuck something over

Falamazeer wrote:Not trying to start shit, but this is ironic coming from you paprika, The highest form of RP I've seen from you is playing an antilizard-racist nearly every round we share.

I think you're confusing me with someone else, my character is exclusively racist against tajarans

I used to roleplay a lot 'back in the day' but it's a hilarious waste of time now, especially on sybil, that's probably why you haven't seen any roleplay from me. which is what this thread is about in the first place.

Hmm, someone is using your forum name as a last name then.
And what is a tajaran?

Roleplay is a healthy disease we all start out with, but the disease, POWERGAME, weeds it out of our systems until it feels useless to Roleplay.

Essentially so many people on Sybil are doing things and supplies are so limited you're better off looking out for yourself than you are playing tea party with the HoS over why you have a glowy sword in your pocket.

it's hard to, things move very fast and there's tons of people, which are very hard to get to know. even if you roleplay consistently it doesn't really trasmit to anybody but the people immediately around you, so you can be the gruff chief engineer or whatever but only the few engineers around you are really going to see it. it's easier to roleplay as a cyborg or AI imo, because they have clear binding laws but can still have personality. and i do try, especially when i'm subverted to be suitably bloodthirsty.

honestly though it's very difficult to roleplay as an antag / traitor or whatever just because as soon as anybody figures you out you're probably going to be dogpiled. i've tried to subtly let people know and social engineer before and generally they just go lolno udeadnow or whatever, so it's not really an angle i feel comfortable playing.

i still try though, and there are a few others.

i played AI in a '3 kings' scenario and the roleplaying was topnotch in that one, so it still happens.

Just stop adminhelping anything and everything. I swear half the times someone dies to another player it gets adminhelped, esword or no.

Actual roleplay is difficult because the rounds are short and the population is high, meaning dividing time between each interaction with people forces a bear minimum of discussion. This is why badger manages plenty of roleplay. When you have two hours and 25 other people, you have a huge amount of time to spend with the ones you encounter during the round.

That marathon round I ran for four hours yesterday (until the server crashed), resulted in a lot of roleplay and positive cooperation and interaction across the entire station, partially I think because they had more time for each person on the server, and because they were guaranteed hourly respawns ensuring they wouldn't be out forever and had a definite time they could return to the game. We even had one lizard maintaining the centcom sleeping area where people could go safely afk. He was just carting around braindeads and putting them on beds, putting out food for when they woke up; all kinds of neat stuff. This was a person with a lot of notes which surprised me immensely when I added the positive one.

I think when people are guaranteed that their work will last a little longer they are more willing to take risks on doing spectacular projects or even just talking to someone without keeping their finger on the taser at their belt.

Just adding an example to what sticky said.

Long round as cook: I usually interact with the barman, to fully turn the bar into a working dinner, with the options for an actual menu, with the brotanics, to try the rarer stuff on both sides, and then the usual odd petition. You meet a lot of people, and you can go out every so often to chat with cargo, science or other areas, to complete what the kitchen may need.

Short round as cook V1: No botanics, I rush to make some dishes, I run out of everything, shuttle gets called.
Short round as cook V2: Botanics, but short round, so either the shuttle gets called, or the station goes delta, and my work ends there.

As we know, short rounds are the average, because people bemoan anything resembling extended, or calm. What does that mean for my average work? No interaction, since I'm still busy preparing the main dishes before shit hits the fan and it's over.
I choose cook instead of HoS, or AI, or something more focused in the station vs antag conflict, because more than half the crew won't get to fight in the entire shift, but in a quick round that also means not getting to do anything complex, what in time does get boring and leads to them making a makeshift spear and turn into shitlers.

I'd blame population, a round with 70 players means tons of bored greyshirts, and from 6 to 10 antagonists, and that means a more than high chance of someone robusting half the station.

I have to say there is a lot more RP on Badger/Basil, but thats not the issue.

I think yeah, roleplay on sybil is at a low, however I do see it and when it happens it creates nothing but a good feeling. Had a round where I was a Lizard cook and acted as a suez chef to the Human cook. We genuinely became an awesome team, making loads of great food and food to order. We'd throw assistants out and generally stood up for each other. I think certain jobs see more RP than others as well. Civilian roles tend to see more, with the HoP included (but sometimes thats more of a means to get more access). Roles like sec or engineering tend to see a lot less, normally because they're doing so much to keep up with the mayhem of the station. Though I have seen some awesome HoS's do some interesting things, I'd really like to see the court used more often, though that kinda relies on a good captain (which are hard to come by these days).

Violaceus wrote: I would like to see less:
Primarch Vulkan

Emperor sees and hears everything.
Emperor is going to smite you with his immense psychic power.

Violaceus wrote:I would like to see less:
- retarded names like Rob Ust or Ayl Mao or Primarch Vulkan

Tim Ebow?

I think this thread is funny considering a month ago you said something along the lines of "Fuck your server 2 culture," when server 2 has a much higher standard for roleplaying. Do you at least now understand why we would want to keep server 2 the way it is?

Are you being fucking retarded

Server 2 culture is le metafriends, le randumb xD luck and danny schmidt grey tide until just recently post-NTstation.

Even before that it was metafriends out the ass, no semblance of roleplay. Server 2 culture isn't fucking roleplaying, it's literally bottom of the barrel ss13. Roleplaying is supposed to be /tg/ culture, but not even /vg/ will call us /tg/ anymore (TGstation now) thanks to our caustic playerbase.

Our server is good and it attracts retards. We need to set a precendent on sybil as well and fucking PLUG OUR EARS when people nonstop scream /TG/ IS DEAD I CAN'T LE BOMB LE CLOWN AS NONANTAG MUH ROLEPLAY IS FOR FAGGOTS XDDDD

Are you? When we had that discussion we were talking about server 2's current state, specifically relating to changing the map. I guess it doesn't matter now anyways, we are running box because Allura quit

I'm gonna have to side with Paprika on this one, although I don't think Server 2 had as much of metafriending issue as he makes it to have had, especially post-Badger.

I believe that if there was any single thing the administration needs to clamp down on, its this. The entire server would be vastly improved, even if shitters did piss and moan about having to actually roleplay a little in a roleplaying game. That doesn't mean you have to go full Bay, but for Chelps sake at least stop using OOC terms like "X IS VALID!!" or chasing down, stunning, and searching random people as an assistant just because you can.

Honestly, this place has always been advertised as a light roleplaying server. If your not here to at least attempt to roleplay, Goon is only an IP address away.

And to answer the OP, I would just make a random chance for traitors/changlings to not have objectives at all. Maybe it would encourage people to use their tools more creatively if they didn't have to worry about DAT GREENTEXT.

As soon as we start making lists of things that people can't say, people will fucking say them nonstop.

This needs to be kept between the administration and they need to make a private guideline of things to look out for and warn people for in regards to shitty behavior that just hemorrhages roleplay. But most of our admins are the exact kind of player that would hate this kind of thing, so it will never be enforced.

Rip /tg/ though for real, the more I see shitty admins and bad players the more I want to quit coding forever and grovel to aurx to unban me from /vg/.

youve triggered me by saying goon has norp loonikus
it does have rp
it just doesnt have many rules about OOC in IC, since OOC is disabled during rounds

imo there shouldnt be any drastic changes to rp policy. consistency is how you maintain a playerbase. if we say that 50 percent rp to some degree and 50 percent dont (these are not accurate numbers btw), then pushing the policy too forward in either direction is going to piss off half the players. if you want to stand up on a soap box and proclaim that everyone who rp's worse than you is shit, or argue the opposite, that's your problem. the most number of people are satisfied with the way it is, and the way it is already has some decent rules to promote rp in the first place.

I personally don't care about maintaining a higher playerbase. I would rather play with 45 decent players than 45 decent players with another 45 shitters piled on top. Don't get me wrong, I'm not saying that everyone should be emoting all the time. Hell, I hardly emote at all. What I am saying is that I'm really damn tired of every round on Sybil being nothing but finding out who is an antag and ensuring they don't get greentext.

thats why i dont play on sybil lol
i mean, its pretty much established that sybil has less rp than badger. if you want rp, why not go to badger..?
theyre both running box for now

Don't we have complaints about excess population? That's even a factor in this, according to reports.

We could afford to take losses in player count to have more roleplay. We know we've taken losses refusing to do so. Friendly reminder that Neerti's on Baystation.

not gonna lie it was pretty refreshing to play sybil for a few rounds and not have the hyper-autist buttbuddying that basil gets for a while
there's a middle ground in there somewhere. I've seen it. I've experienced it. how we get it, I do not know.

By administration that encourages roleplay without being heavy handed and outright banning people or making shitty 'NO MURDERBONE' policies that just piss people off.

Murderbone has never been allowed under rule 1. If you ruin people's fun just to get an arbitrary kill count and you don't have 'escape alone' or whatever, you should be warned for it at the very least because it's unfun crap gameplay.



This is the vocal MINORITY of /tg/ that needs to be pulled, kicking and screaming, if anything is ever going to change.

People like that youngbucktiger guy or whatever. He would do nothing but murderbone but it wasn't his fault, NOBODY told him not to do it for a long time and he was pretty much just convinced this is how /tg/ works when you get traitor, you just kill as many people as possible and do your objectives. He never did it to fuck over other players or be a dick, but people who DID do that made it the norm and admins who are too scared to hand out bans in fear of ADMIN ABUSE DEADMIN HE are to blame. Admins just need to be guided to do the right thing instead of just being 'lol, ban people who obviously break the rules and spam events' because we should have a MUCH higher standard for admins.

did you make that

No, it was made by someone on /vg/ I believe. They've had the same problem with tryhards and play to win bullchelp attitude, but they handled it how we should handle it.

well shit
go over how exactly they handled it and maybe we can handle it

They told idiots who do nothing but roll for antags to get big kill counts to fuck off to /tg/ and nox. Not that I'm blaming them for the massive influx of assholes over the course of 2014, but it probably didn't help that we were so limp wristed about punishing them. /vg/ is pretty massively sekrit klub but we can probably learn something from what was once our sister server.

paprika wrote:sister server.

hot

also afaik antags arent subject to rule 1? the whole point is that antag is a license to griff isnt it?
i mean yeah murderboner antags are boring as fuck and unfun but

da rurus wrote:You are playing a game where you are not fully in control of everything. You will be put into situations beyond your control, which will result in some rounds being ruined for you. Man up and deal with it. However, if you are obviously griefed, be sure to report it to administrators by using the ‘adminhelp’ verb.

antags cant really grief aside from The Three Big Bad Things You Can Never Do Even As Antag
thats just what they do

miggles wrote:also afaik antags arent subject to rule 1? the whole point is that antag is a license to griff isnt it?

This is pretty much a meme made up by moronic admins like tsaricide. It has never been the case. Nobody is void from rule 1, ever. That's why it's rule 1. Ruining other people's fun and griefing just because you're an antag is shit gameplay. Killing anyone who enters escape because you have escape alone and need to hijack the shuttle isn't griefing. "Escape alone" is just a trash objective. Wizard and nuke ops are supposed to be the 'murderbone' antags, to give people a break from sneaking around as lings or traitors.

Need to interject for clarity.

Rule 1, as in:

We’re all here to have a good time. If you’re intentionally trying to ruin everyone else’s good time, you won’t have a place here. Being a jerk in-character is fine to a point, but being a jerk out of character is not welcome at all.

Applies to everyone all the time. You can be an antagonist and you can murder everyone on the station without being a huge asshole about it. I know that's hard to believe but there's a big difference between "I wanted/had to escape alone." vs. "HAHAHA YOU SCRUB AUTIST FAGLORDS ALL GOT DUNKED SUCK MY DICK CHOKE ON IT FEZ 3 2016"

This is here to filter out insufferable fucklords whose only joy is watching everyone else lose and get shit on. Ostensibly we are all playing to all have fun, even if sometimes your goals are to kill other players and steal their stuff. That should be entertaining for everyone. Playing just to spite others, antag or not, isn't tolerated.

The reverse of this is also true of course. If antag kills you and you go apeshit like WOW ONE SHOT I DIDNT EVEN HAVE A CHANCE FUCK YOU I HATE YOU you're a big baby and we don't want you around either. Swearing metagrudges and all kinds of dumb crap. Don't be a jerk.

Excessive/incredibly stupid racism/prejudice whatnot can also fall under this, though you normally really have to try pretty hard for us to actually take notice of it.

It's a rule that's really hard to get banned for because you'll probably already be breaking a bunch of other rules before you tip that scale. And our tolerance is really high because we're used to people not getting along, getting salty sometimes, whatever.

If you can toe-the-line perfectly on everything else while purposely being as awful as you can be just to see what you can get away with, congrats you've broken Rule 1.

more clarification

11:10 PM - An0n3: posted some answers
11:10 PM - kai-chan: i saw
11:11 PM - An0n3: yes it's correct but not exactly in the way paps was talking about
11:11 PM - kai-chan: doesnt the fact that the no-murderboner rule was repealed mean that you should be allowed to do it though
11:11 PM - An0n3: I didn't mention murderboning at all, did I?
11:12 PM - kai-chan: that was kind of the discussion at hand
11:12 PM - kai-chan: also you mentioned how they can kill lots of people for one reason but not another
11:12 PM - kai-chan: which doesnt make sense cus you can just say "oh well i have X reason"
11:12 PM - An0n3: i said you can kill everyone as long as you're not an asshole about it
11:13 PM - kai-chan: so its not killing that makes you an asshole
11:13 PM - kai-chan: ?
11:13 PM - An0n3: No, killing people is part of the game.
11:13 PM - kai-chan: so the ban would be if you got super gloaty and told all the dead people to get fucked salty nerds
11:13 PM - An0n3: Don't kill people for no reason is another rule
11:13 PM - An0n3: And antags can ignore that rule

Murderboning, in my understanding, specifically refers to a situation where you've locked down the entire station and are slaughtering everyone on it for fun. You are actively preventing escape while systematically eliminating every other player you can (or who isn't helping you murder). It's a pretty rare situation, for how much people talk about murderboning it really almost never happens. A guy standing in escape killing everyone who wanders into the shuttle arm is not murderboning. He's just staked a claim to a piece of the station and is likely waiting for the shuttle to get called/arrive himself. Even if he's got an army of subverted borgs wandering around purging the station, as long as the shuttle's coming it's fine. Again, it's only when you're purposely preventing things from wrapping up that it really constitutes murderboning. We have escape alone objectives. There is no "assassinate EVERYONE" objective.

In cases of legitimate murderboning it's a Rule 1 violation but usually we'll solve it by sending in a deathsquad or ninjas tasked specifically with killing you. In the event that no admins were around to make it end right, you do it often, or people just don't feel like playing games with you at the time you might get warned/antag-banned/etc. for it.

tl;dr Actual murderboning rarely ever happens and the term gets thrown around a lot whenever an antagonist gets sloppy and starts killing more than 3-4 people. In the event that it ACTUALLY happens yes it's a Rule 1 violation. If any of the other headmins disagree with me on that I'd be happy to talk about it but that's been my understanding of things for ages and I'm prrrrrretty sure that's mutual among not only us but a lot of other admins as well.

It mostly doesn't happen on sybil because the population is just so fucking high you can rarely just kill everyone outside of gimmicky AI subversions

The antag population formula for solo antags start and late join has diminishing returns as population increases. It isn't a surprise lowpop turns into a one sided bloodbath when a split up skeleton crew with negligible sec presence faces the most traitors per capita.

Oh my god half of my massive posts just dont get posted for some reason

Honestly, we just need more players who understand it can be fun and entertaining to die and fail sometimes. Too many players on Sybil insist on being always right incredible heroes. Nothing is more fun than dying tragically to a blob and screaming out for help about how you're scared to die.