does anyone even roleplay anymore on sybil

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Re: does anyone even roleplay anymore on sybil

Postby QuartzCrystal » Fri Jan 30, 2015 2:04 pm #64392

Honestly, we just need more players who understand it can be fun and entertaining to die and fail sometimes. Too many players on Sybil insist on being always right incredible heroes. Nothing is more fun than dying tragically to a blob and screaming out for help about how you're scared to die.



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Re: does anyone even roleplay anymore on sybil

Postby danno » Fri Jan 30, 2015 2:25 pm #64397

I have had some hilariously dramatic "we're gonna get you outta here - naw... I'm not gonna make it - nnnoo he was 1 day from retirement" deaths and its the shit
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Re: does anyone even roleplay anymore on sybil

Postby DemonFiren » Fri Jan 30, 2015 2:26 pm #64399

Cloning kind of undramatificates deaths, anyway.
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Re: does anyone even roleplay anymore on sybil

Postby Wyzack » Fri Jan 30, 2015 3:54 pm #64423

People always talk about how a small portion of the playerbase even goes on the forums, but i guess i never really got it until this thread. We can talk about making changes all we want, but the fact remains that this place is a bit of an echo chamber and 90% of the players do not give enough of a shit to come here and bitch about the server. I feel like most of the players have a different vision about what the server should be than most of the influential people/admins, and just wanna play a video game with clear cut goals and win/lose conditions. Hell, one of my best friends is this type of gamer, and while i find it mildly frustrating sometimes i get that people have fun in different ways and telling them that their fun is wrong is dumb and pointless. But what can we really do about it?
Arthur Thomson says, "Since there are no admins I would loging with another account and kill you"
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Re: does anyone even roleplay anymore on sybil

Postby Desucake » Fri Jan 30, 2015 7:43 pm #64469

Death happens, it sucks especially if it was easily avoidable, but its best to suck it up and move on/wait to be revived or for the next round. I admit, there are sometimes I don't enjoy getting sneak attacked and my body tossed out into space, I often hope they get caught, but I never go as far to metagrudge them. What I don't enjoy are the players that will constantly just do things to piss you off, like a scientist in one round was dragging a plasma tank in the main hallway towards medbay, I kept pushing it away cause I knew what he was doing, he releases the plasma and then he runs straight to a crowd. Of course players like this just do this so they can people to cluelessly back them up, the sad thing is that the scientist wasn't even antag. I also know that security is always going to be lacking, even when I play it, but I really wish security would be realstic with how they do their job not just "gr I'm mad, I'm going to baton you" or the "Smart" officer running around with his baton in his hand. These are just some small things that tend to break immursion for me.

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Re: does anyone even roleplay anymore on sybil

Postby AnonymousNow » Fri Jan 30, 2015 8:55 pm #64482

Violaceus wrote:- retarded names like Rob Ust or Ayl Mao or Primarch Vulkan


Agreed. It's actually against the server rules, I don't know how they sneak past.

Violaceus wrote:- AIs talking like teenager humans


Agreed, but I'm hypocritical in doing so in that I actually wrote backstory that frames my AI persona as a project attempting to ape human behaviour (though he's more like a precocious child).

Violaceus wrote:- stupid Central Command Announcements


Sort of agreed, though it's amusing to think that whoever has control of the big red button over in Nanotrasen is a petulant child.

Violaceus wrote:- powergaming


For the love of god, yes. I'll admit, I turn into a kleptomaniac on a bouncing fetchquest of "that'll be useful" sometimes (like walking through maintenance and finding a toolbelt), but deliberately seeking to just be the strongest so you can be ready to wordlessly fuck up whatever faint glow of interest wants to attempt to illuminate the strange little bubble world of our server is ridiculous.

Violaceus wrote:- roleplaying pain and fear


Fear is a tricky one, because in-universe characters would likely have become desensitised to a hell of a lot of what's going on. As for pain, well, I try to adhere to that.

Violaceus wrote:- AIs behaving like artifical intelligence "should"


Sometimes I play as CORVID and do just this, to a fault. It's quite fun.

Violaceus wrote:- clowns and mimes performing actual comedy acts


Speaking as a performer, it's really sodding tricky to take what you're visualising and make it visible in the game. You're limited so much by it that the clown usually gives up and slips everyone with banana peels. Best rounds are where clown & mime become buddy cops, though.

And yes, we have a major problem with roleplay going down the crapper, exacerbated by any attempt to slow this decline being met by "FUCK YOU WE'RE NOT GOING TO TURN INTO BAY". Aaaaaaall the way down.
Hornygranny wrote:It's not your codebase. It's our codebase. You can imply soft power as much as you want, but you don't have it. Division between the server and project is absolute. I'm not interested in reading dezzmont platitudes for the billionth time and won't be checking back in this thread.


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Re: does anyone even roleplay anymore on sybil

Postby QuartzCrystal » Fri Jan 30, 2015 9:34 pm #64492

The issue I raised isn't that people need to accept that death happens, people need to learn that dying can be an enjoyable part of the game. Sometimes dying and observing the rest of the round is fun but unfortunately some players go up and beyond to ensure their survival to the point where it's just a series of action heroes getting shit done. I'm not saying we should go hard with the RP and punish players for doing things they don't have in their background, but rather we need to somehow encourage players to understand that this is a RP game and that sometimes it's more fun to RP dying in an entertaining way than living in a boring powergame way.

Desucake wrote:I don't enjoy are the players that will constantly just do things to piss you off, like a scientist in one round was dragging a plasma tank in the main hallway towards medbay, I kept pushing it away cause I knew what he was doing, he releases the plasma and then he runs straight to a crowd. Of course players like this just do this so they can people to cluelessly back them up, the sad thing is that the scientist wasn't even antag.


This is totally bannable. Admins get a notification when someone opens up a canister like this.


In terms of security the sad thing is that these days it seems the only thing you can do is either do your job and rage quit or do your job and enjoy the art of failing horrendously. Honestly security's life would be easier if people just accepted that they were gonna die/be assaulted and then let security handle it. Too many players get attacked and then go nuts getting their valid kill instead of allowing security to do their job. I'm guilty of this myself to be honest (I've been one to make people's lives hell if they fuck with medbay when I'm CMO) but as an admin I see way too many conflicts escalate into murder>ahelp>ban when they could have been solved easily if the initial victim enabled security to do their job and brig the person appropriately.

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Re: does anyone even roleplay anymore on sybil

Postby Redblaze3000 » Sun Feb 01, 2015 6:47 pm #64919

The only role players left are the lawyer, and the cluwne.

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Re: does anyone even roleplay anymore on sybil

Postby miggles » Mon Feb 02, 2015 5:13 am #65063

neither of the people who play those roles ever RP
especially on sybil
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Re: does anyone even roleplay anymore on sybil

Postby DemonFiren » Mon Feb 02, 2015 7:45 am #65088

On Basil it might actually happen.

I try to as Lawyer, anyway. Speciesism cases pay well.
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Re: does anyone even roleplay anymore on sybil

Postby Timbrewolf » Mon Feb 02, 2015 9:41 am #65109

I just joined Sybil to check something quickly and ended up staying to finish the round because people started talking to my character and roleplaying with me.

Double-check the pop numbers and stats after the fact and

OH HEY ONLY 30 PEOPLE ARE ON AND ONLY FOUR ANTAGONISTS THIS ROUND.

Yeah we don't need to put a player cap on or anything no good could ever come of that. 90 player rounds allday errday please fuck this people talking to me shit gotta valid fast.
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Re: does anyone even roleplay anymore on sybil

Postby Timbrewolf » Mon Feb 02, 2015 9:47 am #65111

Wyzack wrote:90% of the players do not give enough of a shit to come here and bitch about the server.


That's a misconception. Most of the posts come from a core group of users but most of the active players are aware of the forums, read them at least somewhat, and post only occasionally.
There are some players that don't use the forums at all, but they're in the minority and trying to discount all the conversation that happens here because some players choose to avoid it is nonsense.

...and it is a choice. They are actively choosing to avoid joining the discussion because they either don't like it or don't like the people in it.

If you don't want to play ball that's cool, nobody is going to force you to, it's your choice, but things are still going to get done and you have no right to complain that your voice is unheard when you refuse to speak.
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Re: does anyone even roleplay anymore on sybil

Postby paprika » Mon Feb 02, 2015 10:43 am #65117

If you're going to put a player cap on, make it a redirect, put basil on box, and just don't tell anyone.
Oldman Robustin wrote:It's an established meme that coders don't play this game.

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Re: does anyone even roleplay anymore on sybil

Postby Stillchr » Mon Feb 02, 2015 10:44 am #65120

I always liked making pointless, snarky, rude, or otherwise off topic command reports. it drives home the fact that your neighborhood centcom is dangerously incompetent. or just really passive aggressive and tired of dealing with the stations crap.

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Re: does anyone even roleplay anymore on sybil

Postby Wyzack » Mon Feb 02, 2015 5:29 pm #65253

We are already on box since allura left and SoS refuses to run metastation despite the fact that allura fixed it up before he left. Life is suffering. Box is hell
Arthur Thomson says, "Since there are no admins I would loging with another account and kill you"
Caleb Robinson laughs.
Arthur Thomson catches fire!
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Re: does anyone even roleplay anymore on sybil

Postby DemonFiren » Mon Feb 02, 2015 6:09 pm #65268

Farewell to the days of good maps on Basil, then?
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Re: does anyone even roleplay anymore on sybil

Postby Timbrewolf » Tue Feb 03, 2015 4:06 am #65442

Wyzack wrote:We are already on box since allura left and SoS refuses to run metastation despite the fact that allura fixed it up before he left. Life is suffering. Box is hell


Allura asked SoS to stop running the station they designed before they left.
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Re: does anyone even roleplay anymore on sybil

Postby Wyzack » Tue Feb 03, 2015 4:39 am #65445

Oh i know. He also told us metacide may be coming back, but i have not heard anything about that. I wish allura would have just let us run eff3 in the meantime
Arthur Thomson says, "Since there are no admins I would loging with another account and kill you"
Caleb Robinson laughs.
Arthur Thomson catches fire!
tusterman11 wrote:Can you stop lying? I just asked you and you are was a piece of shiit on me!!!

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Re: does anyone even roleplay anymore on sybil

Postby paprika » Tue Feb 03, 2015 4:45 am #65448

>not wanting box

It's like you don't even want players
Oldman Robustin wrote:It's an established meme that coders don't play this game.

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Re: does anyone even roleplay anymore on sybil

Postby Wyzack » Tue Feb 03, 2015 5:21 am #65455

Most of us are perfectly fine with the low population we have, we prefer 10-30 players over the constant shitfuck mayhem sybil tends towards
Arthur Thomson says, "Since there are no admins I would loging with another account and kill you"
Caleb Robinson laughs.
Arthur Thomson catches fire!
tusterman11 wrote:Can you stop lying? I just asked you and you are was a piece of shiit on me!!!

Kor wrote:I wish Wyzack was still an admin.

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Re: does anyone even roleplay anymore on sybil

Postby RG4 » Tue Feb 03, 2015 6:08 am #65461

Sybil simply has too many players to actually be roleplay outside of Garrysmod DarkRP play style. It also has a variety of things you can outside of actually RP which many RP mediums lack outside of player to interaction. Chemist don't have to do "/me mixings chemicals making x" and have it drawn out because they know they do it instantly without having to go through the RP to do it. Something in RP like Garrysmod,Secondlife, what ever you tend to use, you gotta RP that shit out otherwise it's asspulling and power gaming when you don't show that you have the proper knowledge or background to start making this shit. Sybil is more of a "Okay, we know this is a high paced large population game of clue/Trouble in Terrorist Town. Shit can go wrong REAL quick and there is literally no point in RPing unless nothing is going on around you at all."

Not to mention there are A LOT of play2win players on Sybil (we've all done it, but Jesus fuck I've seen people who get antag status and outright deny any form of fun towards anyone. Literally Tsarcide)

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Re: does anyone even roleplay anymore on sybil

Postby Raven776 » Tue Feb 03, 2015 10:30 am #65507

I personally don't think you need to put a player cap. Just make the station bigger with more room for more people, less antags, but the antags scale up with station size to a cap. The difference between 20 telecrystals and 30 can be huge in what a single traitor can do.

I think it'd probably cut down on a lot of that suspicion, but it would also mean that the mass amount of players would migrate to basil just to get a better chance at antag. Smaller populations get.

Some of the best rounds were abysmally long ones for me, but I can understand why that would be AWFUL to have with our respawns. There's no way for a player to know how long they'll stay dead on Basil unless the station got fucked hard when they died.

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Re: does anyone even roleplay anymore on sybil

Postby paprika » Tue Feb 03, 2015 4:12 pm #65567

1) player cap
2) better roleplay policies
3) eject admins who don't agree
4) call players who don't agree newfags

then we're /tg/ again

why do people forget that we're a 4chan server and if they want equal representation for their obnoxious byond hub paradise station playstyle they can simply get fucked? why did our admins get so fucking pussy whipped?
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Re: does anyone even roleplay anymore on sybil

Postby Ikarrus » Tue Feb 03, 2015 4:40 pm #65572

paprika wrote:1) player cap

Code it as a config option, Paps :)

2) better roleplay policies

Suggest some.
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Re: does anyone even roleplay anymore on sybil

Postby Wyzack » Tue Feb 03, 2015 4:57 pm #65575

Here is crazy idea, what about a split policy between the servers? If we enforce a higher quality of roleplay on server 2 and convince sibyl players who want more roleplay to move there we could please the valid hunter murder types while still having our roleplay server. This would ideally help to balance out population as well
Arthur Thomson says, "Since there are no admins I would loging with another account and kill you"
Caleb Robinson laughs.
Arthur Thomson catches fire!
tusterman11 wrote:Can you stop lying? I just asked you and you are was a piece of shiit on me!!!

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Re: does anyone even roleplay anymore on sybil

Postby DemonFiren » Tue Feb 03, 2015 5:03 pm #65578

So we're creating Baysil?
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Re: does anyone even roleplay anymore on sybil

Postby paprika » Tue Feb 03, 2015 5:19 pm #65587

Wyzack wrote:Here is crazy idea, what about a split policy between the servers? If we enforce a higher quality of roleplay on server 2 and convince sibyl players who want more roleplay to move there we could please the valid hunter murder types while still having our roleplay server. This would ideally help to balance out population as well

I literally suggested this a million times but we'd need a splinter of the administration to do this. We'd need 'basil admins' and 'sybil admins'
Oldman Robustin wrote:It's an established meme that coders don't play this game.

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Re: does anyone even roleplay anymore on sybil

Postby Wyzack » Tue Feb 03, 2015 5:21 pm #65591

A change this big pretty much requires the entire administration on board, and they would need to decide which server they would wanna pick to admin. Not to mention the transition would be far from smooth
Arthur Thomson says, "Since there are no admins I would loging with another account and kill you"
Caleb Robinson laughs.
Arthur Thomson catches fire!
tusterman11 wrote:Can you stop lying? I just asked you and you are was a piece of shiit on me!!!

Kor wrote:I wish Wyzack was still an admin.

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Re: does anyone even roleplay anymore on sybil

Postby paprika » Tue Feb 03, 2015 5:30 pm #65596

A /tg/ roleplaying server that's more akin to older /tg/ or current /vg/ is definitely a void that server 2 used to fill before NTstation and artyom though, not counting the issues with metafriends and a sub culture of cancerous gameplay.

Ultimately the best solution should be to just shape sybil in the image of old /tg/ and tell people who don't like it to fuck off to hub servers, but uh, none of the admins will ever have the balls to do that, ever. So the best solution here is keeping sybil like it is -- massively overpopulated and retarded, with boxstation and the same rules, because people enjoy it, and making basil more roleplay friendly by removing things like escape alone and enforcing better policies in regards to antags and round progression. Server 2 was unlike sybil in a big way, in a positive way, and it allowed /tg/ to serve everyone without this big clash of interests we're experiencing now. Simply put, all of this conflict between the coders, players, and administration, is all erro's fault. :ugeek:

tl;dr just stop fucking with the rules of sybil, keep the ruleset closer to what we used to have on sybil, and make a separate rules page for server 2. make the difference between them minor but significant, instead of changing sybil around which just pisses off the children that inhabit sybil. If old /tg/-style administration which enforced a playstyle of laid-back gameplay with light roleplay but DIDN'T discourage being robust like bay does appeals to people, people will join server 2 and it will populate itself. But it needs admins who want this to fuck off from sybil and spend time seeding the server even on the slow hours to show people that server 2 isn't KIA. Every connection to server 2 helps the population grow and it's not hard to leave a window open in the background connected to server 2.

If my wisdom is really something the headmins want to seek about this (lel) then I'll be specific with the types of policies I want for server 2 and how the server 2 specific rules page should be layed out.
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Re: does anyone even roleplay anymore on sybil

Postby Ikarrus » Tue Feb 03, 2015 5:44 pm #65600

I'm not interested in having split policies but I'm not afraid to tell people to fuck off, either.

If you have ideas for roleplay policies then come speak with us.
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Re: does anyone even roleplay anymore on sybil

Postby Wyzack » Tue Feb 03, 2015 6:01 pm #65606

The fact of the matter is that if we want to enforce roleplay, we either need to isolate the massive play2win population we already have or excise them entirely. I am pretty sure only a small percentage of them will adjust their playstyle rather than leaving/getting bant
Arthur Thomson says, "Since there are no admins I would loging with another account and kill you"
Caleb Robinson laughs.
Arthur Thomson catches fire!
tusterman11 wrote:Can you stop lying? I just asked you and you are was a piece of shiit on me!!!

Kor wrote:I wish Wyzack was still an admin.

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Re: does anyone even roleplay anymore on sybil

Postby Ikarrus » Tue Feb 03, 2015 6:16 pm #65610

Sucks for them
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Re: does anyone even roleplay anymore on sybil

Postby Wyzack » Tue Feb 03, 2015 6:21 pm #65612

In no way do i think that getting rid of those people is a bad thing, but you will be stepping on a lot of toes
Arthur Thomson says, "Since there are no admins I would loging with another account and kill you"
Caleb Robinson laughs.
Arthur Thomson catches fire!
tusterman11 wrote:Can you stop lying? I just asked you and you are was a piece of shiit on me!!!

Kor wrote:I wish Wyzack was still an admin.

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Re: does anyone even roleplay anymore on sybil

Postby Steelpoint » Tue Feb 03, 2015 6:22 pm #65613

Lets just arbitrarily kick off 90% of the playerbase cause fuck them am I right?

If you want to "go back to your roots" or any of that, make Basil the "RP" server and be done with it.
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Re: does anyone even roleplay anymore on sybil

Postby Bluespace » Tue Feb 03, 2015 6:34 pm #65615

I roleplay!
I play Boris Pepper.
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Re: does anyone even roleplay anymore on sybil

Postby paprika » Tue Feb 03, 2015 7:57 pm #65634

So we've settled it. Admins need to be stricter in regards to people being assholes or meta/ooc. Names that are obviously retarded and playstyles that are nothing but 'le guess the round type and antag role' should be discouraged. I really really really advise against admins outright banning people though, use your communication and let people know that their behavior/name/etc is unacceptable and why. Odds are if you take a professional tone they will respond positively more often than not. I still love the players of /tg/ and this community and it's certainly bad eggs dragging down the whole round instead of the majority.

One of the most important things that can be addressed immediately is shortening the rules page and trimming the fat. Leave the silicon policies be, because they're necessary because of the AI's silly law system, but everything else is stupid. You shouldn't have to tell people how to roleplay and what meta ooc behavior is. Just tell people that we roleplay here on /tg/ and to not be assholes and ruin the immersions of people who actually try to play characters and enjoy ss13 in that way by being epic internet culture douchebags. More often than not, they're following the example of other people and not roleplaying just because 'nobody else does'. Admins need to be telling people specific examples are bad so players don't do it in the future. Yes, it requires admins paying attention to rounds more for little things and being spectators more often than not, but at least it's something good and you won't be chastised for being a shitmin that "WON'T LET ME HAVE FUN!!"

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Re: does anyone even roleplay anymore on sybil

Postby WeeYakk » Tue Feb 03, 2015 8:06 pm #65635

GAS THE SHITTERS

ROLEPLAY WAR NOW
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Re: does anyone even roleplay anymore on sybil

Postby Loonikus » Tue Feb 03, 2015 8:49 pm #65650

If anyone is curious how roleplaying used to be on the /tg/, please spectate a few rounds on /vg/s server. I greatly prefer the lag free /tg/ servers and not having spessmen zoom around at the speed of lightening, but they have a great balance of gameplay and roleplay.

I've found myself playing there more and more often, which is sad because I really liked /tg/ station. I'm not saying ABANDON /TG/, /VG/ STRONK but just see how they do things. Last round I played there I actually got to solve crimes as a detective, I actually had surgery performed on me (A tator EMPed the robotic heart that Smity got in Spess 'Nam. Baymed confirmed for FUCKING AWESOME even though I WAS DYING HORRIBLY OF CARDIAC ARREST), and I actually watched a play in the theater, all in one round. And it was fun as hell.

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Re: does anyone even roleplay anymore on sybil

Postby Wyzack » Tue Feb 03, 2015 9:50 pm #65665

I think before we can definitively say we want to move in this direction we need the other headmins to weigh in, as well as the serverhost. If we are serious about it then the client start message should say something about how we are changing our policies before they are enforced
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Re: does anyone even roleplay anymore on sybil

Postby paprika » Tue Feb 03, 2015 9:52 pm #65668

Yeah ikarrus if you could get HG to comment that would be cool, I know he's more on the code side of things with head administrating but I'd like to hear his thoughts on our server's state of affairs and the general playstyle.

I'm not saying we've GREATLY DEVIATED from what /tg/ used to be but Loonikus makes a pretty good point about how /vg/ is more vanilla /tg/ than we are right now.
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muh tldr

Postby imblyings » Tue Feb 03, 2015 10:18 pm #65686

I have no interest in which direction if any, the server goes. I only care that the server administration and playerbase is competent and make sense in the execution of any decision made. The hopeful outcome here, is that while nothing will probably change, a few people will have been able to discuss and be made more aware of the subject. More importantly I think, everything is secondary to !fun!. !fun! is what draws people to the server and !fun! is what keeps them coming so the server stays alive.

What is roleplay and setting.

1. the acting out or performance of a particular role, either consciously (as a technique in psychotherapy or training) or unconsciously, in accordance with the perceived expectations of society as regards a person's behaviour in a particular context.
2. participation in a role-playing game.

The second definition is useless and we can infer most of the functional meaning of the word in the second definition from the first definition. The definition is mentioned because if you read through the current thread or previous threads, you will find many differing opinions of what constitutes acceptable roleplay. If we have many differing opinions, then we must have many differences in what we think are the perceived expectations of acceptable behaviour in a situation. This is not surprising. The /tg/ server has no official setting. If we try to make a setting out of common game events and game mechanics, then our setting can be roughly summarized as all-knowing, functionally immortal psychopaths (with variance for personal character fluff) on a station that does not make sense.


What exactly constitutes roleplay? Ask a bunch of people in game or on the forums and you will receive different answers. The trick here is that all of those answers are wrong, unless they quote a dictionary definition.

Going by our dictionary definition and the setting that we have, the following would be roleplay,

>An engineer silently helping set up the singulo, before he barricades himself into tcomms and plays with tcomms scripts.
>A botanist, bartender and chef working together to help create different foods and drinks.
>An assistant sitting down and having a chat with the bartender.
>The same assistant stunning, stripping and killing someone suspicious who turned out to be a traitor in maintenance.
>A medical doctor and cargo technician being scared of suspicious people in maint and hiding together somewhere while talking to each other.
>A chemist wordlessly making pacid grenades and suicide-nading a mm einath wizard.

Those are all roleplay. Not all will agree but consider the setting we have. The engineer in the first example has acted in a completely plausible way for an engineer- think of what could make it implausible. So has the service team and then the assistant and bartender. Having a chat on the station is considered behaviour in accordance with our setting's perceived expectations. Seeing as we are functionally immortal psychopaths and that assistants are commonly considered to be a cut above (or below) the normal psychopath, the assistant bludgeoning the traitor to death with a toolbox is yet again still in accordance with expectations. The fifth example, while rare, is still in accordance too. The sixth example, given that cloning is commonplace and that wizards are presumably enemies of the station, make the chemist's suicide attack in accordance as well.

This is not a defence of those examples, do not attack me for them. This is an explanation of how despite OOC objections to the actions, they make IC sense. Which is important when we talk about wanting more roleplay. This point is illustrated so that anyone asking for more roleplay or bemoaning a lack of roleplay will be more specific in requesting what sort of roleplay - or rather - what particular society/setting and perceived expectations of character behaviour they want.

An added benefit in requesting particular settings/expectations of behaviour is that it allows for consistent rulings to be based upon previous rulings. Fiat rulings on specific behaviours does not help consistency. For some time, the server has depended on rule 1 for consistency in rulings. Rule 1 cannot be used for everything. A constant setting however, can provide consistent expectations of behaviour.

It is important to note that settings/expectations of behaviour, are separate from fluff. Using 40k as an example, while Space Marine chapters will differ wildly in chapter histories, preference for tactics and such, all of them are reverent towards the Emperor and all of them are consummate warriors and soldiers. A Black Templar will be wildly different from a Space Wolf but there is enough consistency between the two to have a common expectation of how they would act. A setting or expectation of behaviour in the context of this argument, means the consistency between the two Space Marines. It does not mean the fluff that make those two different.

Many have implicitly suggested that the server should follow a setting closer to a 21st century, normal Western society, to determine expectations of behaviour and such (e.g. names). This is perfectly okay but it would be useful and helpful to explicitly point out these things for discussion, rather than request the behaviour itself.


Traditional roleplaying games often feature a group of people familiar with and considerate of each other. After all, they have to play the game face to face and must be nice to each other, if they want to get the fun they came for. Most traditional games are also team-based. While player conflict will occur, the players (hopefully) usually have some sort of obligation to the player sitting next to them to preserve their fun.

SS13 unfortunately, is not a traditional pen and paper RPG. It is also not conducted in real life. There is no face to face contact. Nor does it enjoy the guaranteed cooperation that a team-based RPG has. Rule 1 enforces a minimum of obligation towards the fun of another player. I'd like to ask at this point however, if these threads weren't just a very roundabout way of asking for more fun, that elusive creature, rather than roleplay. Anyway. We simply do not have the same level of OOC obligation towards another player that a real life roleplaying game has.

This OOC obligation towards others is a facet of SS13 that helps to encourage or enable specific character behaviours during roleplay. This OOC obligation can also be rephrased as an OOC understanding or gentlemen's agreement, between two or more players. It can also be called sportsmanship. It can involve non-antags and non-antags, non-antags and antags, or antags and antags. It represents a recognition of mutual boundaries not to be crossed in interaction between two or more players and a willingness to contribute to the fun of others. It goes beyond rule 1 to voluntary actions and behaviour. It could be somebody hurt letting a doctor treat them as opposed to breaking into medbay to heal themselves, it could be a scientist recognizing that their coworker is trying to do a traitor gimmick and playing along with it, or it could be traitors working together. In all these examples, one player has recognized the other player's desire for some sort of fun or satisfaction and have cooperated to bring that about. In these examples, while there could be plausible IC reasoning for those character actions and behaviour, it's the OOC element that facilitates the interaction. And it has nothing to do with roleplay or the perceived expectations of a character's behaviour.

What many people seem to request, is for more players to be conscious of having an OOC obligation to other players. They usually call for less validhunting or for more roleplay but as explained above, validhunting falls within plausible roleplay in the setting and perceived expectations that we have. They are presumably asking for people to refrain from IC actions that might make sense and instead choose other IC actions that also might make sense but have OOC benefits. Which is almost the exact opposite of roleplay but there you go. There's nothing wrong with it but this has to be made clear. Roleplay, at this point, is not only guided by setting (or lack of) but also by OOC obligations.

There are further differences in OOC obligations that should be looked at. Non-antag/non-antag, non-antag/antag, and antag/antag OOC obligations work out differently.

There is a risk in any interaction involving antags. Antags obviously, can choose to end their obligation at their discretion but so can non-antags, by getting their valids on or alerting security. Both sides will often attempt to have their fun first or protect their fun, at the expense of the other. Nobody can be blamed for this mindset, as we play the game to have fun or at least we should be. In any case, any future attempts to encourage IC actions that also meet OOC obligations towards other players must address this issue.

As a sidenote in regards to validhunting, conscientious validhunting is an existing and working solution to the problem. Attempts to respect the fun of others are met in kind, attempts to have fun at the expense of others are met with attempts to end their fun. The most common situation would be traitors who spare people who play along and kill people hunting them, or security who let cooperative and nonharmful traitors go, while making a point of incinerating murderboners. The problem really, would be to spread and nurture this playing style to other players.


There is a vast difference in the perceived expectations of character behaviour and OOC obligations between players, depending on gamemode. This is a thing, fortunately or unfortunately. Security will hand out weapons freely during blob, malf and nuke ops but they will not during cult or rev. Traitor antags may feel safe to do gimmicks or cooperate with sec but cultists, revs and nuke ops rarely do. There are in short, inavoidable differences in the OOC obligations players have towards each other, depending on gamemode. As explained above, it involves respecting the boundaries and fun of others. Traitors are capable of doing so occasionally. Cultists and revs for example, are bound to ignore those obligations due to their objectives. Security, with their obligation to fellow security staff, are under pressure to ignore obligations to the fun of cultist or rev players. Game modes then, also affect roleplay, along with setting and OOC obligations.


In regards to p2w, there should be a distinction made between play to survive (non-disruptive), play to survive (disruptive), play to win (deny greentext), and play to win (get greentext). All of these are plausible IC behaviours. The first is p2w to avoid death/sacrifice/capture, the second is p2w to terminally dunk an attacker, the third is p2w to actively seek out antags and deny greentext, and the fourth is p2w to get greentext. The four are all plausible IC behaviours. Everyone is allowed to know everything and competency is hard to distinguish from p2w in the setting that we have. So the context and intent of the p2w has to be considered. There is a difference between an assistant searching for traitors to kill and sec searching for cultists to kill after the chaplain was killed. The last example however, features a more reasonable excuse to ignore the fun of others. This is the point where it becomes apparent at least to me, that this was never about roleplay. It was about fun.

Anyway there are a few other issues that affect what sort of IC actions a character might choose to take, apart from the lack of setting we have, any OOC obligations a character might have, and the game mode.

One's the server population, which has been extensively brought up and discussed which is good.

The other is game content. This is not a comment aimed at coderbus because new content is hard to make. However, PvE seems to inspire cooperation amongst players and that usually leads to some form of OOC agreement to have fun together.


practically speaking,

>focus on encouraging players to have that unspoken OOC agreement with each other to have fun, rather than mess with the clusterfug that is 'roleplay'.

>realize that you're essentially trying to induce something that is normally found in small tight-knit or face-to-face communities.

>'intimidation' objective???? Spaceman X must put spaceman Y in some form of restraint and deal Z amount of damage to them without killing them since they are important to Syndicate group A for reason B. Spaceman X can get some flavour text that he's supposed to say to spaceman Y while beating him up.


It's 6am

tl;dr

It was never mainly about roleplay you faggots, it was about fun

it was about the unspoken ooc agreement or lack thereof between two players or more, about respecting each others boundaries and having fun together

it was slightly about people having headcanon and being salty that the little game canon we had made no sense and the behaviour of other people didn't follow their headcanon. Canon that makes sense would help but never as much as unspoken ooc agreements to have fun together

before you use the word roleplay, ask yourself if you know what it means. If the dictionary definition and only the dictionary definition didn't come to your mind, stop and do not use the word

nothing will come of this thread, we will have the same thread next year gj guys apc destroyed mission accomplished
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Re: does anyone even roleplay anymore on sybil

Postby paprika » Tue Feb 03, 2015 10:45 pm #65698

Most of the real fun in ss13 came from the greentext stories, which were almost always circling around emergent gameplay stemming from people roleplaying and not just doing the same antag hunt vigilante or murderbone shit every round. People did roleplay, that's where the interesting greentexts came from, that's what drew most of the original /tg/ audience to this community. I agree that anything can be generally classified as roleplay, all of your examples, but it's not very difficult to determine the factors behind player actions in the game. Did that person just toolbox that other person because he was roleplaying an angry spaceman, or was he oocly pissed off because that guy got to the yellow gloves before he did?

This is what admins need to distinguish and enforce if anything will ever come of this thread, simply put.

The real issue here is the bad eggs who pollute the server with their bad attitudes towards this game (like you described) rather than 'non roleplaying scum'. I wasn't even trying to imply that. But as any sec officer who's dunked all the antags 20 minutes in can tell you, SPACE STATION 13 DOES NOT HOLD UP ON GAMEPLAY ALONE. Roleplay is a necessity to prevent stagnation and encouraging it is the #1 way to ~fun~ in this game and avoiding people going CALL THE SHUTTLE IM BORED THERES NO ANTAGS TO CHASE!
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Re: does anyone even roleplay anymore on sybil

Postby imblyings » Tue Feb 03, 2015 11:42 pm #65716

nothing was specifically directed at you in case I my tone was off

yes, SS13 doesn't hold up on gameplay alone. Rounds do last for longer when there are either active gimmicks, active and fun non-combat player interactions (a form of roleplay), or active traitors lurking around.

'Roleplay' itself is not a sufficiently accurate term to describe what I think you're describing. This would almost be a matter of semantics except there's a very real difference between any sort of IC action and an IC action that takes into account OOC obligations towards other players. This thread and previous threads for the last few years have been asking for a multitude of things related to roleplay and have gotten nowhere. Clearly defining what everyone has probably wanted for all this time, would be a first step to actually getting it. So instead of asking for roleplay policies or ways in which to help roleplay happen, people should be asking for policies which specifically and explicitly encourage players to voluntarily choose IC actions that take the fun of others into account.

And when or if this happens, we should hopefully get more people with greentexts of spectacular 'roleplay' between players, where players have worked together to achieve fun.
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Re: does anyone even roleplay anymore on sybil

Postby paprika » Tue Feb 03, 2015 11:58 pm #65726

I talked this over with cheridan a bit. Unfortunately we've made the game too fun for people on its own, mainly for antags. Greentext and playing antags and just going for your objectives is way too satisfying on its own. It should be a catalyst for antagonist roleplay, or !fun! as you put it. But right now buying a silenced pistol and dropping fools is too rad. I'm not suggesting we remove it, but that gameplay on its own is hilariously too fun and it's even more fun to dick over other people while doing it.

So yeah, I get what you mean, and I appreciate your post. Roleplay has been thrown around a lot as a buzzword to describe the type of fun we have in this game, or the gameplay/playstyles, and you articulated it well. Your post was just.. kinda long and I don't expect anyone to really read it but me.

Glad to have you around at least still.
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Re: does anyone even roleplay anymore on sybil

Postby miggles » Wed Feb 04, 2015 12:00 am #65728

holy shit that is the longest post i think i have ever seen talking about ss13
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Re: does anyone even roleplay anymore on sybil

Postby Wyzack » Wed Feb 04, 2015 12:19 am #65738

inb4 Dezzmont coming on to one up him in post length
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