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Re: In Defence of Racist Prickery
Posted: Sun Nov 01, 2020 11:36 am
by XivilaiAnaxes
Bottom post of the previous page:
I always thought it was kind of annoying you had to be human to be a head of staff for the simple reason it shafted you out of being able to be a bit creative with your species choice if you didn't want to be locked out of certain roles.
I've never seen someone discriminate against non-humans in an interesting way (except the AI but that is entirely to do with the rules-lawyering aspect of the role as opposed to anything else). It's always "KILL ALL LIZARDS" or nobody tells them apart from humans with nothing inbetween. I suspect because it's effort that nobody cares enough to put in?
The AI matter I've always assumed was just a meme scifi reference that whoever wrote the laws didn't want to even remotely deviate from (even though it means there's an entire section of silicon policy just there to 'fix' all of Asimov's problems).
Re: In Defence of Racist Prickery
Posted: Mon Nov 16, 2020 11:14 am
by Lacran
I think racism happens plenty but there's big differences in how it can be expressed rpwise. It's very common for species to complain about each other to a member of the same species, but being blatantly racist to someone's face causes alot more drama, and probably escalates to violence.
Simple things like overcharging, or over scrutinizing a particular species is common, it's just not blatant
Re: In Defence of Racist Prickery
Posted: Fri Dec 04, 2020 12:31 am
by Intercept0r
I love racism, even if imaginary.
That being said, players most deserving of a tabling, vitriolic remark and a ride down disposals generally play humans as the optimal species.
I believe the primary cause of species blindness is that there is no real reason to ever be paranoid about a species. Cult or rev draw the line between the good and bad guys, but it's always orthogonal to species.
The only element that gives any reason to be antagonistic towards other races are ashliggers and even then, there's hardly any solidarity between station and lavaland lizards.
An event or gamemode like nonhuman supremacy (I'm thinking a twist on revs) would probably push the game towards more inter-species conflict - by giving snowflake races a reason to speak in their species language (discretion) and other players the possibility to suspect a racial species supremacy event is going on.
I don't think this game mode should ever be available for humans, because humans already are established as both in-lore and de facto dominant species, and because it doesn't take a genius to figure out what glyph players would choose to signify their allegiance to the human race.
Re: In Defence of Racist Prickery
Posted: Fri Dec 04, 2020 1:05 am
by Screemonster
Intercept0r wrote:I love racism, even if imaginary.
That being said, players most deserving of a tabling, vitriolic remark and a ride down disposals generally play humans as the optimal species.
I believe the primary cause of species blindness is that there is no real reason to ever be paranoid about a species. Cult or rev draw the line between the good and bad guys, but it's always orthogonal to species.
The only element that gives any reason to be antagonistic towards other races are ashliggers and even then, there's hardly any solidarity between station and lavaland lizards.
An event or gamemode like nonhuman supremacy (I'm thinking a twist on revs) would probably push the game towards more inter-species conflict - by giving snowflake races a reason to speak in their species language (discretion) and other players the possibility to suspect a racial species supremacy event is going on.
I don't think this game mode should ever be available for humans, because humans already are established as both in-lore and de facto dominant species, and because it doesn't take a genius to figure out what glyph players would choose to signify their allegiance to the human race.
The problem with this idea is that the first time a lizard does something remotely greytidey there's always gonna be that guy that's like "GAS THE LIZARDS IT'S RACE WAR" and use the existence of that gamemode to justify why they decided every lizard was valid
Re: In Defence of Racist Prickery
Posted: Fri Dec 04, 2020 7:23 am
by XDTM
Intercept0r wrote:I love racism, even if imaginary.
even if?
Intercept0r wrote:An event or gamemode like nonhuman supremacy (I'm thinking a twist on revs) would probably push the game towards more inter-species conflict - by giving snowflake races a reason to speak in their species language (discretion) and other players the possibility to suspect a racial species supremacy event is going on.
There's plenty of potential for creative conflict in the game without actively pushing players because they aren't acting racist enough.
Re: In Defence of Racist Prickery
Posted: Fri Dec 04, 2020 3:13 pm
by wesoda25
Intercept0r wrote:I love racism, even if imaginary.
That being said, players most deserving of a tabling, vitriolic remark and a ride down disposals generally play humans as the optimal species.
I believe the primary cause of species blindness is that there is no real reason to ever be paranoid about a species. Cult or rev draw the line between the good and bad guys, but it's always orthogonal to species.
The only element that gives any reason to be antagonistic towards other races are ashliggers and even then, there's hardly any solidarity between station and lavaland lizards.
An event or gamemode like nonhuman supremacy (I'm thinking a twist on revs) would probably push the game towards more inter-species conflict - by giving snowflake races a reason to speak in their species language (discretion) and other players the possibility to suspect a racial species supremacy event is going on.
I don't think this game mode should ever be available for humans, because humans already are established as both in-lore and de facto dominant species, and because it doesn't take a genius to figure out what glyph players would choose to signify their allegiance to the human race.
Honey, no.
Re: In Defence of Racist Prickery
Posted: Fri Dec 04, 2020 3:16 pm
by cacogen
This ain't it, chief
Re: In Defence of Racist Prickery
Posted: Fri Dec 04, 2020 3:21 pm
by Ayy Lemoh
Screemonster wrote:Intercept0r wrote:worst beginner sentence to have in this thread
words words words
The problem with this idea is that the first time a lizard does something remotely greytidey there's always gonna be that guy that's like "GAS THE LIZARDS IT'S RACE WAR" and use the existence of that gamemode to justify why they decided every lizard was valid
Imagine revs but they don't even get the flash to convert. At best, you'll have 5-10 dudes including you. At worst, it's you and someone else.
Man, I can't wait to do blood brothers reskinned or blood brothers but nuke ops edition!
Re: In Defence of Racist Prickery
Posted: Fri Dec 04, 2020 6:15 pm
by Screemonster
Ayy Lemoh wrote:Screemonster wrote:Intercept0r wrote:worst beginner sentence to have in this thread
words words words
The problem with this idea is that the first time a lizard does something remotely greytidey there's always gonna be that guy that's like "GAS THE LIZARDS IT'S RACE WAR" and use the existence of that gamemode to justify why they decided every lizard was valid
Imagine revs but they don't even get the flash to convert. At best, you'll have 5-10 dudes including you. At worst, it's you and someone else.
Man, I can't wait to do blood brothers reskinned or blood brothers but nuke ops edition!
blood brothers reskinned but with a hard tell for who the other blood brothers are if one of them gets caught
Re: In Defence of Racist Prickery
Posted: Fri Dec 04, 2020 11:49 pm
by Intercept0r
The problem with this idea is that the first time a lizard does something remotely greytidey there's always gonna be that guy that's like "GAS THE LIZARDS IT'S RACE WAR" and use the existence of that gamemode to justify why they decided every lizard was valid
Imagine revs but they don't even get the flash to convert. At best, you'll have 5-10 dudes including you. At worst, it's you and someone else. Man, I can't wait to do blood brothers reskinned or blood brothers but nuke ops edition!
blood brothers reskinned but with a hard tell for who the other blood brothers are if one of them gets caught
All good points. My point isn't about adding revs with races specifically though, but more broadly about making race more relevant in game modes and random events. Revs with races is a blunt example, don't read too much into it.
Re: In Defence of Racist Prickery
Posted: Fri Dec 04, 2020 11:53 pm
by cacogen
It's a shame that humans are so braindead and self-defeating racism must continue in the 26th century/against fictional races in a video game
Re: In Defence of Racist Prickery
Posted: Sat Dec 05, 2020 12:11 am
by Intercept0r
cacogen wrote:It's a shame that humans are so braindead and self-defeating racism must continue in the 26th century/against fictional races in a video game
Spessgame is not meant as a template for the society of the future. Real racism bad. This is about whether more interesting social interactions can be achieved by in-grouping based on imaginary species.
Re: In Defence of Racist Prickery
Posted: Sat Dec 05, 2020 12:15 am
by cacogen
The lizard and moth metacliques already exist and the answer is no
Re: In Defence of Racist Prickery
Posted: Sun Dec 06, 2020 11:09 am
by Farquaar
Intercept0r wrote:An event or gamemode like nonhuman supremacy (I'm thinking a twist on revs) would probably push the game towards more inter-species conflict - by giving snowflake races a reason to speak in their species language (discretion) and other players the possibility to suspect a racial species supremacy event is going on.
I don't think this game mode should ever be available for humans, because humans already are established as both in-lore and de facto dominant species, and because it doesn't take a genius to figure out what glyph players would choose to signify their allegiance to the human race.
This is unironically a fantastic idea, the implementation of which would be a tangible step to solving the problem I sought to draw attention to in this thread.
Screemonster wrote:The problem with this idea is that the first time a lizard does something remotely greytidey there's always gonna be that guy that's like "GAS THE LIZARDS IT'S RACE WAR" and use the existence of that gamemode to justify why they decided every lizard was valid
You know that killing the janitor just because he talked about unionizing IC is random murder, right? Doubly so on Manuel. Security who don't go through due diligence and investigate whether a target is a probable antag will eat a ban, just like with
every other gamemode.
XDTM wrote:Imagine revs but they don't even get the flash to convert. At best, you'll have 5-10 dudes including you. At worst, it's you and someone else. Man, I can't wait to do blood brothers reskinned or blood brothers but nuke ops edition!
I wonder how a rogue AI can manage to overthrow the entire station when he only has a few borgs at his command. If only they were to give rogue AIs special abilities that allow them to accomplish their nefarious goals in an interesting manner.
Intercept0r wrote:All good points. My point isn't about adding revs with races specifically though, but more broadly about making race more relevant in game modes and random events. Revs with races is a blunt example, don't read too much into it.
You've got nothing to apologize for, lad. A few naysayers may call you mad, but I call you a visionary.
Re: In Defence of Racist Prickery
Posted: Tue Dec 15, 2020 9:59 am
by Ayy Lemoh
Farquaar wrote:
You know that killing the janitor just because he talked about unionizing IC is random murder, right? Doubly so on Manuel. Security who don't go through due diligence and investigate whether a target is a probable antag will eat a ban, just like with every other gamemode.
I wonder how a rogue AI can manage to overthrow the entire station when he only has a few borgs at his command. If only they were to give rogue AIs special abilities that allow them to accomplish their nefarious goals in an interesting manner.
Let's say one bad lizard = every lizard bad. At some point, roleplay or not, it will turn into a math problem of "If John McSec had to kill three hostile lizards, what's the probability that he will just find an excuse to kill all the other lizards?"
Also if we added cool species abilities, it would most likely turn into a shitstorm that oranges would never allow. The AI and his goons are also very different from normal players because they can't pick up weapons, function more like simplemobs in a way, and can be countered by some of the dumbest shit.
Re: In Defence of Racist Prickery
Posted: Sat Jan 09, 2021 1:31 am
by Timonk
oranges wrote:Farquaar wrote:
3. The station is a "nonsensical, metal death trap masquerading as a space station", where paranoia is the norm.
None of this in the common core lore
Then why do you allow it to be used in map design
Re: In Defence of Racist Prickery
Posted: Sat Jan 09, 2021 5:47 am
by cacogen
The common core lore sounds like fan fiction written by stupid people
Re: In Defence of Racist Prickery
Posted: Thu Jan 14, 2021 7:20 pm
by Megarop
Intercept0r wrote:I love racism
Re: In Defence of Racist Prickery
Posted: Tue Jul 20, 2021 7:19 pm
by EuSouAFazenda
This thread would have gone a lot better if it was called "Is getting discriminated a part of the lizard gameplay?", because that's what we are discussing: Is lizard racism good or bad for the game and its ramifications.
I think we all can agree racism againt people of color is bad in-game and out-of-game. If lizardpeople existed out-of-game I agree racism against them would be bad, but because they don't exist it leaves us with a weird point if it should or should not exist in-game.
Imo we should do a vote among lizard mains to determine how much racism should be a part of the gameplay for them, then based on that results we brainstorm ways to incentivize/decentivize it.
btw I like the "lizard revolution" gamemode idea, I find it neat
Re: In Defence of Racist Prickery
Posted: Wed Jul 21, 2021 12:05 am
by sinfulbliss
I think it's fine to be mean/species-ist IC as long as you're doing so at least a little tongue-in-cheek so it's clear it's RP and not a direct player insert. If someone thinks you, the player behind the screen, is being genuinely mean to them, then that's not good and you should probably curb it a bit. But if they think you're acting out being mean to them in the RP-narrative, that's totally normal and no one should really get offended too much by it. It's a subtle difference but an important one IMO.
Like if I was gonna execute a tot and they said "wow you're just gonna execute me, you're a pretty boring person," that would feel more like just being mean as a player, cause the RP is bad and it kind of speaks to the player behind the character and not the character. But if they said "ARE YOU GONNA FUCKIN KILL ME FOR THAT? WHAT KIND OF A SHITTY POWERTRIPPING LIGGER ARE YOU," I would actually view that as less offensive, because it's something you could envision somebody about to be executed actually saying. It's mean "in the RP universe" and doesn't seem to extend outside of it.
Re: In Defence of Racist Prickery
Posted: Wed Jul 21, 2021 6:26 am
by XDTM
IC racism/speciesism does not strictly, in isolation, mean that the player themself is racist. However, the idea of it would obviously appeal to IRL racists, and when a character acts it out with too much enthusiasm it doesn't paint a pleasant picture of the player behind it, especially combined with this community, where many players have the tendency to view racism as acceptable if not outright funny.
It's a trope/gimmick that only really works if you know the player in question enough to be sure it's a fiction, and even then there's plenty of different RP gimmicks which do not carry the same baggage. There's not much to lose from not having it in the game anymore, outside of non-player-driven lore speciesism like command job restrictions.
Re: In Defence of Racist Prickery
Posted: Wed Jul 21, 2021 10:40 am
by Agux909
Nah speciesism is fine. Gives a good excuse to lynch the bastard with a non-speciesist mob. Removing this IC interaction would be a crime.
Re: In Defence of Racist Prickery
Posted: Thu Jul 22, 2021 11:39 am
by Fishimun
ate liggers , ate cats , ate lightbulbs , ate moth.
simple as that