/tg/Station 13

Bottom post of the previous page:

I still believe we need to kill people more, people need to get it

Pandarsenic wrote: ↑Tue Nov 30, 2021 1:14 am But Dean Ivanov, the easiest spaceman to hate, doesn't play on Manuel

he powergames with the belt and gloves every round like it’s 2012 and it warms the cockles of me heart

TheFinalPotato wrote: ↑Sun Jul 10, 2022 9:53 am I still believe we need to kill people more, people need to get it

only if you’re going to bring them back into the round in a fun way instead of having everyone sit out forever

I don't think you're wrong but too often people complain that nothing is happening and that's because there's nobody willing to make things happen, get out there and be a menace

But don't confuse starting a conflict with cheap griefing, walking in the bar and smashing all the glasses without saying a word is not roleplay, there are many interesting ways to cause conflict that can be interesting for everyone involved. Maybe your character is not too fond of that lizard bartender who's handling your drink with their dirty claws, make some passive aggressive remarks about it and see what happens next

And if some metafriends gets mad in OOC, why should you care about someone who can't keep IC things IC? This is how you let them win and the problem festers

Mickyan wrote: ↑Thu Jul 14, 2022 3:55 pm I don't think you're wrong but too often people complain that nothing is happening and that's because there's nobody willing to make things happen, get out there and be a menace

But don't confuse starting a conflict with cheap griefing, walking in the bar and smashing all the glasses without saying a word is not roleplay, there are many interesting ways to cause conflict that can be interesting for everyone involved. Maybe your character is not too fond of that lizard bartender who's handling your drink with their dirty claws, make some passive aggressive remarks about it and see what happens next

And if some metafriends gets mad in OOC, why should you care about someone who can't keep IC things IC? This is how you let them win and the problem festers

Because I don't want to be A: shunned B: called a shitter forever

Dorkus Hore exists, so that's obviously a problem.

If you think that people are too nice, the problem is you.

Also, I can't go a day playing on Manuel without getting shot by a bald man yelling "LIGGERS" so I'm not sure if we're playing on the same server.

BeansKidney wrote: ↑Mon Jan 30, 2023 4:14 am If you think that people are too nice, the problem is you.

Also, I can't go a day playing on Manuel without getting shot by a bald man yelling "LIGGERS" so I'm not sure if we're playing on the same server.

Tell me then, what sort of experience do you look for when you play this game?

Itseasytosee2me wrote: ↑Mon Jan 30, 2023 5:01 am Tell me then, what sort of experience do you look for when you play this game?

I go in not knowing what to expect, that's part of the fun. I might have a quiet atmos shift where I teach a newcomer the ropes, one where all of engineering work together on creating the most ridiculous SM setup you've ever seen, I may be a cargo technican running a pizza delivery service through fax machines, or I may be mailing a bomb to security as a revolutionary only for the captain to throw it into medbay.

BeansKidney wrote: ↑Tue Jan 31, 2023 12:30 am

Itseasytosee2me wrote: ↑Mon Jan 30, 2023 5:01 am Tell me then, what sort of experience do you look for when you play this game?

I go in not knowing what to expect, that's part of the fun. I might have a quiet atmos shift where I teach a newcomer the ropes, one where all of engineering work together on creating the most ridiculous SM setup you've ever seen, I may be a cargo technican running a pizza delivery service through fax machines, or I may be mailing a bomb to security as a revolutionary only for the captain to throw it into medbay.

The conflict and interesting scenerios you describe are made less authentic when every single character takes upon a benign and ambivalent behavior to everyone else no matter the circumstance (unless of course they just had their meta friend insulted, in which case there is still a solid 50% chance that they just call you mean in a cutesy sort of way before trying their hardest to escalate and round remove you.)

It is arguably a lesser roleplaying quality than LRP due to the vast amount of player who just use their static as a conduit for their own feelings and emotions out of game, which is much less immersive than the alternative.

Itseasytosee2me wrote: ↑Tue Jan 31, 2023 1:02 am The conflict and interesting scenerios you describe are made less authentic when every single character takes upon a benign and ambivalent behavior to everyone else no matter the circumstance (unless of course they just had their meta friend insulted, in which case there is still a solid 50% chance that they just call you mean in a cutesy sort of way before trying their hardest to escalate and round remove you.)

I'm with you on that one. It's not fun being focused down by a metagang just because I killed their friend as a traitor, however...

Itseasytosee2me wrote: ↑Tue Jan 31, 2023 1:02 am It is arguably a lesser roleplaying quality than LRP due to the vast amount of player who just use their static as a conduit for their own feelings and emotions out of game, which is much less immersive than the alternative.

MRP isn't ideal, but I wouldn't say that it's less prevalent on LRP where people don't focus on exploring their characters at all.

I'm not sure how many players know how to play an asshole without being an asshole.

Hm I should be more of a asshole

Itseasytosee2me wrote: ↑Tue Jan 31, 2023 1:02 am The conflict and interesting scenerios you describe are made less authentic when every single character takes upon a benign and ambivalent behavior to everyone else no matter the circumstance (unless of course they just had their meta friend insulted, in which case there is still a solid 50% chance that they just call you mean in a cutesy sort of way before trying their hardest to escalate and round remove you.)

It is arguably a lesser roleplaying quality than LRP due to the vast amount of player who just use their static as a conduit for their own feelings and emotions out of game, which is much less immersive than the alternative.

I agree with this post strongly

Being an asshole usually gets you bwoinked, even if it's valid IC conflict that falls well within the rules.

BrianBackslide wrote: ↑Thu Feb 02, 2023 2:51 am Being an asshole usually gets you bwoinked, even if it's valid IC conflict that falls well within the rules.

"I can't believe Dalton keeps holding out on giving me a syringe gun. I'm going to smash all of the windows into medbay and then ahelp when he disposals me."

cedarbridge wrote: ↑Thu Feb 02, 2023 4:51 pm

BrianBackslide wrote: ↑Thu Feb 02, 2023 2:51 am Being an asshole usually gets you bwoinked, even if it's valid IC conflict that falls well within the rules.

"I can't believe Dalton keeps holding out on giving me a syringe gun. I'm going to smash all of the windows into medbay and then ahelp when he disposals me."

not giving me the things I want immediately and without question is metagrudge

even if we've never met before

especially if we've never met before

I mean, what do you expect when you can get banned for pieing someone? Everyone plays looking back over their shoulder not because they're paranoid of their fellow spaceman, but because they're paranoid of getting in trouble for following the rules. Either be milquetoast or risk a ban if you interact with the wrong person.

BrianBackslide wrote: ↑Sun Feb 05, 2023 2:28 am I mean, what do you expect when you can get banned for pieing someone? Everyone plays looking back over their shoulder not because they're paranoid of their fellow spaceman, but because they're paranoid of getting in trouble for following the rules. Either be milquetoast or risk a ban if you interact with the wrong person.

Oddly, a ton of people play on the server without this worry or concern.

Manuel feels like the server that could use respawn in a productive way. Require you to respawn as a different character each time and hold them very strictly to the rp standard of manuel. Allowing respawns would help alleviate the big concern of round removing people from a server that typically has much longer round times. I want to play on Manuel more because the high RP standard is great, but I do not because things like mass sabotage are overly restricted for fear of round removing people.

rasonj wrote: ↑Tue Feb 07, 2023 4:42 pm Manuel feels like the server that could use respawn in a productive way. Require you to respawn as a different character each time and hold them very strictly to the rp standard of manuel. Allowing respawns would help alleviate the big concern of round removing people from a server that typically has much longer round times. I want to play on Manuel more because the high RP standard is great, but I do not because things like mass sabotage are overly restricted for fear of round removing people.

You are in the right line of thought I think. Round removal is part of the game, at cheap death keeps the game feeling flowy and gritty.
The problem is not killing characters, but letting ghosts get back into the round. We have this with ghost antags, and those are really good for keeping the round going, but perhaps we need more to keep people in it.

Off the top of my head, perhaps an rouge escape pod from a nearby doomed ship random event which dumps some crewmates from station within the vicinity. Perhaps there's a chance one of these crewmates is a syndicate spy, or a changeling.

Something more dynamic than "Oh you just get a new character as if you had started from round start"

Itseasytosee2me wrote: ↑Tue Feb 07, 2023 6:19 pm

rasonj wrote: ↑Tue Feb 07, 2023 4:42 pm Manuel feels like the server that could use respawn in a productive way. Require you to respawn as a different character each time and hold them very strictly to the rp standard of manuel. Allowing respawns would help alleviate the big concern of round removing people from a server that typically has much longer round times. I want to play on Manuel more because the high RP standard is great, but I do not because things like mass sabotage are overly restricted for fear of round removing people.

You are in the right line of thought I think. Round removal is part of the game, at cheap death keeps the game feeling flowy and gritty.
The problem is not killing characters, but letting ghosts get back into the round. We have this with ghost antags, and those are really good for keeping the round going, but perhaps we need more to keep people in it.

Off the top of my head, perhaps an rouge escape pod from a nearby doomed ship random event which dumps some crewmates from station within the vicinity. Perhaps there's a chance one of these crewmates is a syndicate spy, or a changeling.

Something more dynamic than "Oh you just get a new character as if you had started from round start"

I feel like MRP lends itself to a slightly more loose allowance for ghost roles interacting with station. Not like, "free golems spawn and join the station like greyshirts" but like, attempts to make contact with station, form trade relations, etc.

MRP can be a really good way to produce more interaction. Though, I tend to find that some players read the MRP rules as "wordlessly do your job the entire shift without talking to people and avoid all conflict." Sometimes good IC reasoning for little squabbles and scuffles makes a round fun! Would give security more to do that killing the 18+ traitors that Dynamic spawns every round.

Of course, being able to differentiate IC and OOC fights is important, and some people just can't do so, it needs to be a learned behaviour to just accept things in stride as IC. This post was a little scatterbrained; I have a lot of thoughts about MRP and people being overly nice.

People talk about everyone being nice but I see shitloads of people just shoving eachother or wordless shittery and general douchery so I have no idea what anyone here is smoking.

cybersaber101 wrote: ↑Thu Feb 09, 2023 6:14 am People talk about everyone being nice but I see shitloads of people just shoving eachother or wordless shittery and general douchery so I have no idea what anyone here is smoking.

Oh no... Shoving...

kayozz wrote: ↑Thu Feb 09, 2023 8:54 am

cybersaber101 wrote: ↑Thu Feb 09, 2023 6:14 am People talk about everyone being nice but I see shitloads of people just shoving eachother or wordless shittery and general douchery so I have no idea what anyone here is smoking.

Oh no... Shoving...

ya, the relentless shove spamming and general aggression.

I've played almost exclusively medbay since returning (because apparently medical is way more interesting than it was several years ago) and I've had pretty pleasant experiences so far. Staff talks to staff, paras coordinate with MDs, people stay out of eachother's way or back off if they think they're getting in the way, patients describe their injuries. I've even seen MDs and patients having the "here bite on this stick, they didn't train me in anesthetic" bit. I'm sure that there are still plenty of cases where jobs are so engrossing that people just wordlessly go about their shifts, but that's people. I don't talk to anyone at my office job if I can help it either.

I mostly play a chilled, helpful character on Manuel, usually assistant these days too. But I've also had my fair shair of fist-fights and been arrested a few times but almost always for IC interations and round dynamics- so I guess the level of friendliness and cooperations depends on the round and situation.
Yeah sure people will be chatting in the bar or sometimes wordlessly go about their shift doing whatever they have to do, but Manuel can turn pretty chaotic like any other server. Like anywhere else it depends on several factors such as the robustness of antags/security or if someone is pulling off a gimmick.

I don't really think the problem is that people are too nice but that a lot of the structure of Manuel incentivizes people to play in fairly boring ways and makes more complex forms of roleplay/ character interactions harder to achieve. Which isn't to say people are unwilling to play/ engage with more rough and tumble characters and IC conflicts. I've had plenty of fun, memorable conflicts just playing off character dynamics with my fellow crewmates, but there's just not all that much push to do so and in some cases you're actively disincentivized from doing it.

mf's still necro?

Necro so powerful it revived Gupta

I’m afraid to use the roleplay thread anymore because I might disturb the grave

Itseasytosee2me wrote: ↑Tue Nov 30, 2021 1:05 am Roleplaying isn't (or at least it shouldn't be) having a polite conversation with someone. What happened to paranoia? Are people not comfortable hating or disliking someone in character but not out of character?
People don't want to offend others, people don't want to make people dislike them OCC. Whenever one person is trying to kill another person they usually try to be funny to show that out of character they are not serious and don't dislike you. This sucks for immersion. The MRP rules certainly aren't helping.

If it helps MRP players, I give you permission to hate and be mean to any other character in-game, without hating them out of character. If you are concerned about it talk with them OCC after the round to make sure there are no hard feelings, and if there are it's their fault for not being able to separate game and reality.

So go out, be speciesist and petty. Mean spirited and paranoid. Insult someone and then throw their drink across the room when they insult you back. Demean a person missing a leg. Try to see characters, and not people behind screens.

Because if you're rude to somebody they can literally just kill you and the admins will not do anything about it

manual

Current headmins are pushing enforcement towards, "what would be a sane response IRL?" and IRL the sane response is to be nice and accepting, to de-escalate conflicts and avoid hostility at all costs. This is what most people do.

Issue is that on a game like spaceman this mentality sucks, like super mega sucks, and makes for boring snoozefests.

sinfulbliss wrote: ↑Fri Oct 27, 2023 4:59 am Current headmins are pushing enforcement towards, "what would be a sane response IRL?" and IRL the sane response is to be nice and accepting, to de-escalate conflicts and avoid hostility at all costs. This is what most people do.

Issue is that on a game like spaceman this mentality sucks, like super mega sucks, and makes for boring snoozefests.

a sane person irl and a sane person in the ss13 verse are distinct creatures, and it feels like you're being intentionally inflammatory by stating our intentions incorrectly anywhere that you find purchase to do so. people are asked to just have grounded reasoning within that universe for things they do, enforcing irl standards doesn't mean shit when a wizard can bust into your workplace at any instant.

TheBibleMelts wrote: ↑Sat Oct 28, 2023 8:53 am

sinfulbliss wrote: ↑Fri Oct 27, 2023 4:59 am Current headmins are pushing enforcement towards, "what would be a sane response IRL?" and IRL the sane response is to be nice and accepting, to de-escalate conflicts and avoid hostility at all costs. This is what most people do.

Issue is that on a game like spaceman this mentality sucks, like super mega sucks, and makes for boring snoozefests.

a sane person irl and a sane person in the ss13 verse are distinct creatures, and it feels like you're being intentionally inflammatory by stating our intentions incorrectly anywhere that you find purchase to do so. people are asked to just have grounded reasoning within that universe for things they do, enforcing irl standards doesn't mean shit when a wizard can bust into your workplace at any instant.

That’s not my intention at all, it’s just what I’ve gathered from what’s been said. Feel free to correct me.

The issue with enforcing the “sane response” ideal, is that it is once again entirely up to the individual admin. What I consider “sane” you may consider “insane.” What Vekter considers “insane,” Scriptis may consider “sane,” and so on, until now you have a meaningless standard that simply enables individual admins to curate the environment how they personally prefer.

If the rules can’t point to a standard of behavior that’s discrete and defined, they are nothing more than moral handwaving in my opinion. Even IC, the “sane” response is often assumed to be the one that generates least conflict.

On those rare times I play i dont think I've really truly did Paranoid that much. More just mild asshole, "tired of this shit" or "actively deranged and antisocial". And this is dating back to ancient times. When we had not concept beyond LRP, only had lizards and only one server... okay Grandma needs her nap.

To an LRP player, crazy frog is just a normal frog...

Jonathan Gupta wrote: ↑Tue Nov 30, 2021 7:50 am IM PURPOSELY A ASSHOLE!(I don't valid hunt anymore due to feeling like I ruin antag rounds as soon as I find you)

(And I try not to round remove and such unless you are actively a threat)

I HATE THESE FUCKS!!!(But it is weird they are a little to nice)

gupta will walk up to me and say he's going to strip the flesh from my bones and play my spine like a xylophone and I'll be like

better be quick. better make it hurt. better take me out in one shot.

it's schizophrenic, but in return, I thieve his shit and pawn off stolen goods right back to him. The Circle will keep turning.

wait holy fucking christ necro thread jumpscare

I think an issue, at least for me, is that Manuel is quite packed. There are so many people on at once, and the server is near full much of the time.
When I play there, I'm often struggling with the sheer amount of overwhelm due to all the speaking and everything that is going on.
I think people were nice - but it was the kind of nice where it was like, "Sorry, I'm carrying 3 conversations at once, what's up?"
(It's very possible this is not the case for others.)

Other than that, in rp land, people sometimes just want to be comfy.
I think the nastiness you're looking for is certainly available on other servers - and I think some of the people on Manuel are looking for a reprieve from all that. It's tiring to hear, "Fuck lizards!!" for the 50586850576794856th time.

If you want some wild action and you get antag, come up with a gimmick that involves people (greentext be damned). You probably won't be shunned if your gimmick is something better than "Kill ALL the people!!" or "I am going to cause frustrating problems for everyone!!"
You could be a debt collector, or a wizard who is like "WOAH WHAT IS THIS NEWFANGLED TIME IM IN"
You could challenge someone to a duel, or pretend you're from the future, and you need to save [person] from dying (or perhaps even kill person) to save the timeline.
Use your imagination and you may find more fun. Mileage my vary depending on your skill in entertaining others.

seeing this thread crop back up every now and then always makes me do a kind of :L face irl.

there is no way to take a single person's experience and extrapolate it out into a community defining analysis of that entire server. manuel, like any other tg server, is a huge mixing vat of different player types. sure, a certain type of person who's less interested in conflict will probably choose the server with more RP rules, but that extended ruleset is not so constricting that it replaces any trace of what makes other tg servers into tg.

i make sure to play my character in a way where they stand up for themselves and don't take shit from others. i get into fistfights and scuffles because sometimes i'm mean to people and sometimes i retaliate because others are mean to me. it's fun and allowed and even expected. we have gamers just like any other server. we have hugbox roleplayers just like any other server. it depends on who is on the manifest at that particular time, not which server it is. playing manuel at 1pm may as well be a different server entirely from manuel at 9pm. we have come a long way from the early manuel populated by traumatized ex-sybilites who balked at every antagonistic action because they wanted a protected space where the vile and nefarious shitters couldn't disrupt their autism fort projects. nowadays the only real difference to the average joe is how "restricted" antags are handled. otherwise there is plenty of chaos and fisticuffs to go around.

my own personal opinion is that i just like to let people vibe and do their thing within the broad stage afforded them by the rules. i am not and never will be interested in micromanaging player's contributions to the creative space. it's up to them what song and dance they do, not me.

these generalizations are just that: generalizations. they fall apart at the slightest scrutiny and are not worth putting stock in. if manuel is your block, then good! if you don't like it and prefer less RP and more terry gaming, good! i'm glad you're with us either way.

sinfulbliss wrote: ↑Sat Oct 28, 2023 4:42 pm

TheBibleMelts wrote: ↑Sat Oct 28, 2023 8:53 am

sinfulbliss wrote: ↑Fri Oct 27, 2023 4:59 am Current headmins are pushing enforcement towards, "what would be a sane response IRL?" and IRL the sane response is to be nice and accepting, to de-escalate conflicts and avoid hostility at all costs. This is what most people do.

Issue is that on a game like spaceman this mentality sucks, like super mega sucks, and makes for boring snoozefests.

a sane person irl and a sane person in the ss13 verse are distinct creatures, and it feels like you're being intentionally inflammatory by stating our intentions incorrectly anywhere that you find purchase to do so. people are asked to just have grounded reasoning within that universe for things they do, enforcing irl standards doesn't mean shit when a wizard can bust into your workplace at any instant.

That’s not my intention at all, it’s just what I’ve gathered from what’s been said. Feel free to correct me.

The issue with enforcing the “sane response” ideal, is that it is once again entirely up to the individual admin. What I consider “sane” you may consider “insane.” What Vekter considers “insane,” Scriptis may consider “sane,” and so on, until now you have a meaningless standard that simply enables individual admins to curate the environment how they personally prefer.

If the rules can’t point to a standard of behavior that’s discrete and defined, they are nothing more than moral handwaving in my opinion. Even IC, the “sane” response is often assumed to be the one that generates least conflict.

You really do sound like one of those players who looks for any justification to bash another dude's skull in, no wonder you're taking issue with Manuel.

regie wrote: ↑Fri Dec 29, 2023 5:36 am

sinfulbliss wrote: ↑Sat Oct 28, 2023 4:42 pm

TheBibleMelts wrote: ↑Sat Oct 28, 2023 8:53 am

sinfulbliss wrote: ↑Fri Oct 27, 2023 4:59 am Current headmins are pushing enforcement towards, "what would be a sane response IRL?" and IRL the sane response is to be nice and accepting, to de-escalate conflicts and avoid hostility at all costs. This is what most people do.

Issue is that on a game like spaceman this mentality sucks, like super mega sucks, and makes for boring snoozefests.

a sane person irl and a sane person in the ss13 verse are distinct creatures, and it feels like you're being intentionally inflammatory by stating our intentions incorrectly anywhere that you find purchase to do so. people are asked to just have grounded reasoning within that universe for things they do, enforcing irl standards doesn't mean shit when a wizard can bust into your workplace at any instant.

That’s not my intention at all, it’s just what I’ve gathered from what’s been said. Feel free to correct me.

The issue with enforcing the “sane response” ideal, is that it is once again entirely up to the individual admin. What I consider “sane” you may consider “insane.” What Vekter considers “insane,” Scriptis may consider “sane,” and so on, until now you have a meaningless standard that simply enables individual admins to curate the environment how they personally prefer.

If the rules can’t point to a standard of behavior that’s discrete and defined, they are nothing more than moral handwaving in my opinion. Even IC, the “sane” response is often assumed to be the one that generates least conflict.

You really do sound like one of those players who looks for any justification to bash another dude's skull in, no wonder you're taking issue with Manuel.

He won't ever read this.

This problem has gotten better since I posted this over two years ago. I guess times change.

i killed some people as a ling once and boy lemme tell ya they weren't nice and accepting
i think they were sent to mental hospitals as a result of their calamitous rage and emotional anguish
that or the butthospital for their butthurt butts

I saw this thread and i was going to ask in what manuel have u been playing then i saw that it is 2021 manuel lmao

Feels like people are much less nice nowadays

DATAxPUNGED wrote: ↑Mon Mar 11, 2024 7:27 pm I saw this thread and i was going to ask in what manuel have u been playing then i saw that it is 2021 manuel lmao

Feels like people are much less nice nowadays

ITS THE BI MONTHLY NECRO OF THIS FUCKING THREAD

Jonathan Gupta wrote: ↑Tue Mar 12, 2024 12:04 am

DATAxPUNGED wrote: ↑Mon Mar 11, 2024 7:27 pm I saw this thread and i was going to ask in what manuel have u been playing then i saw that it is 2021 manuel lmao

Feels like people are much less nice nowadays

ITS THE BI MONTHLY NECRO OF THIS FUCKING THREAD

It's a good thread because it's depicts the Manuel epoch about the time I stopped playing regularly. It's nostalgic.

Yesterday someone stole my shoes, so I punched them several times in the head. They called me rude and uncouth then we both went our separate ways and I stood on some glass and fell over.
This is the Manuel experience you're all missing out on.

I imagine on one of the LRP servers I'd have shanked them and ended up in Perma.