PLASMAMEN GENERAL

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Scones
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PLASMAMEN GENERAL

Post by Scones » #85951

Reformatted OP for containing decided-upon lore. Old OP in spoiler at the bottom of the post.

CURRENT TOPIC OF DISCUSSION: Basic tenants of Plasmaman society

General Plasmaman discussion should go here. I'll be making a new thread that we can sticky/transfer to the wiki with information that is 'finalized'.
Spoiler:
Scones wrote:They're pretty rare and stuff so we might as well come up with some commonly agreed-upon naming conventions and basic background. I think in all of their current uses as characters sans people being turned into them to test them, we've actually managed uniformity in a latin name theme. Things like Pulvis Ira, Igne Ferroque, Tegula Cultis, Terramotus Calcitrare, etc.

Alternatively I have another format for naming, something like: Four Sun Waning Shadow, Howling Stone Burning Star

Who knows, if we get enough content compiled, we could for once have a race with defined lore and stuff.
(Also if anyone gets these shitty name references props to you)
Last edited by Scones on Fri May 08, 2015 2:26 am, edited 4 times in total.
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Re: PLASMAMEN GENERAL

Post by DemonFiren » #85952

So it's either Bay-style Diona naming, or Mass Effect-style turian.

Sounds acceptable to me, although I'll probably cringe at the abundance of incorrect Latin (due to Latin possessing six-and-a-half cases and genus, that is, grammatical gender, as oppposed to English, which barely has any grammar left.)
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Re: PLASMAMEN GENERAL

Post by Scones » #85954

DemonFiren wrote:So it's either Bay-style Diona naming, or Mass Effect-style turian.

Sounds acceptable to me, although I'll probably cringe at the abundance of incorrect Latin (due to Latin possessing six-and-a-half cases and genus, that is, grammatical gender, as opposed to English, which barely has any grammar left.)
Yeah about half of those example names are actually pretty grammatically nightmarish, in regards to the latin ones. I don't mean to get tangental or derail, but aren't Diona names adjective-noun, two words?

Anyways, names aren't nearly as important as cultural intricacies and societal norms.
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Re: PLASMAMEN GENERAL

Post by DemonFiren » #85959

Diona names are typically adjective-noun, but can also get phrasey. It's related to some important impression during their nymph stage, I think.


I've thought about combining names and social constructs, however, resulting in the following ramblings.

I'm wondering if clan structure naming could work, following the bit of Lévi-Strauss that I've done - large groups form as clan under a specific totem, or central term, and names relating to that central term are given out to individuals either upon birth, reaching adulthood, marriage or any one or several of literally dozens of other criteria (dependent on culture discussed.) The name of the individual does not metaphorically reflect his or her position in the group - the chief of the clan of the Space Carp is not necessarily named Head-of-the-Carp, but directly refers to that individual's position within the group as a whole, as reflection of the natural state of the totem - that is, the clan member named Head-of-the-Carp is to the clan member Scales-of-the-Carp as a real carp's head would be to its scales.
Or something. Lévi-Strauss was weird to read and this kind of system works better for lizards, anyway.
This kind of approach can be used to suggest that plasmamen form extremely tight-knit communities, reasonably small so that no name can be given twice.

Now I have an alternative if we're going to get absolutely pseudo-alien and lore-autistic, that is: teknonymy and necronymy.
Patronyms are mostly familiar to anyone who's played Skyrim - remember Sigdis Gauldurson and his brothers? Sons of Gauldur, hence their last names. Teknonyms are the exact opposite, where an individual is called Father-of-(child's name), Mother-of-(child's name), and so on.
Necronyms go even further, they are limited to phrases that mean as much as 'mother-is-dead', 'brother-is-dead', 'uncle-is-dead', but are usually eventually switched out for another name.
This one's more about alienness for its own sake, although a few interesting hypotheses could be made on what it means for a culture's members to refer to themselves only in relation to other individuals, who in turn do the same (unless they do not have children, in which case a given name and necronym might help identification.)
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Re: PLASMAMEN GENERAL

Post by Not-Dorsidarf » #85975

Give them lizard-style names but with a 4-word allowance.

Oh and unrelated but start enforcing the surname thing on lizardpeople who don't follow the argonian(seriously fuck whoever made that policy) nameset. If humans aren't allowed mononames, then lizardpeople shouldn't either.
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Re: PLASMAMEN GENERAL

Post by Scones » #85978

That's interesting, but it sounds much more applicable to lizards. Considering the Plasmamen have semi-advanced suits that they use for hostile environments, I had envisioned them as a fairly advanced society with a sort of 'progressive' outlook on exploration and science - Hence reaching out to NT/humanity in general out of an academic curiosity (But in a much less sinister sense than say, abductors.) I could talk about that for a while but I'll save it for much later on because while it's important we seem to be talking about naming conventions, which I guess is both an important first step and segway into later bits. It looks to me like you want naming to be a very complex social thing, so...

Are they tribal?
Do they live in a larger society in smaller family units?
Are names earned, given, or self-assigned?
Not-Dorsidarf wrote:Give them lizard-style names but with a 4-word allowance.
Verbs-the-adjective-noun sounds lame and unoriginal. I'd much rather have the longer ones I suggested if we're going with a theme anywhere near that, like Red Cloud Grinning Skull
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Re: PLASMAMEN GENERAL

Post by Lumbermancer » #85985

Ayy lmao. Is it Vox Raider? Holy shit I feel a warm feeling in belly because I predicted it happening like half a year ago.
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Re: PLASMAMEN GENERAL

Post by Scones » #85987

Lumbermancer wrote:Ayy lmao. Is it Vox Raider? Holy shit I feel a warm feeling in belly because I predicted it happening like half a year ago.
No. Not-oxygen breather, sure, but lore-wise they should have nothing similar to Vox.
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Re: PLASMAMEN GENERAL

Post by TechnoAlchemist » #85992

Latin name fun times are good but shouldn't be enforced.
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Re: PLASMAMEN GENERAL

Post by Scones » #85994

TechnoAlchemist wrote:Latin name fun times are good but shouldn't be enforced.
Put policy discussion elsewhere, this is about lore stuff. They're an admin race for the time being either way.
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Re: PLASMAMEN GENERAL

Post by TechnoAlchemist » #86002

I know code wise they are gendered but do plasma men have concepts of gender and sexuality?
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Re: PLASMAMEN GENERAL

Post by Scones » #86006

TechnoAlchemist wrote:I know code wise they are gendered but do plasma men have concepts of gender and sexuality?
I was actually JUST thinking about this. I think it's up to us to decide that - How do they even reproduce? I'm also 100% willing to say ITS A CLOSELY GUARDED PLASMAMAN SECRET AND NOBODY KNOOOOWS.

Going with my theme of scientist-progressives, I imagine they would've abandoned major differences in gender, culturally, long ago. There's little reason for them to let that get in the way of progress.
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Re: PLASMAMEN GENERAL

Post by TechnoAlchemist » #86009

Considering that their body structures/anatomy are identical regardless of their *chosen* gender. I would imagine them as agender creatures with little or no sexual expression.

Additionally, I imagine them reproducing in a non-mamallian way. (spawning pool, some sort of formation from plasma ect.)
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Re: PLASMAMEN GENERAL

Post by Stickymayhem » #86080

My headcanon go: Latin names, honourable military race, very punctual
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Re: PLASMAMEN GENERAL

Post by Septavius » #86093

Stickymayhem wrote:My headcanon go: Latin names, honourable military race, very punctual
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Re: PLASMAMEN GENERAL

Post by Lovecraft » #86104

I thought it'd be a fun creative exercise to flesh somethings about just at random, so sorry if a lot of this ends up being lame.

Like, just looking at the design of most Plasmamen it seems like an extremely mysterious race. I think it'd be an interesting angle to have them be fivefold ahead of humanity, but be secretive, isolationists who get extremely vicious when prodded.
Humanity ventures into space, begins to gather and research plasma, and then finds beings who literally live off of the stuff.
Humanity is very eager to great these new beings and exchange information, but all attempts at communication fail and all military aggression is stomped into the dust until humans are like "Fuck it, don't mess with the Plasmamen"
Superior, but not outwardly arrogant. Almost like a species who has lived too long encounters a species who are just on the brink of their prime, and just wish to be as far removed from them as possible. That would help explain their rare appearance and force humans to be at least tolerant to their visits, as Central orders a strict "If you see a Plasmaman, turn the other direction." policy. Seeing them would be akin to seeing a walking, living miracle you had always heard stories about and didn't entirely think were still around. This opens up the possibility for some crew to even scoff at the Plasmamen, denying them to the be "real deal" and prodding them.

This might make for boring lore, but maybe the only reason they would ever show up on station is to go alongside another galactic menace? Plasmamen show up to obtain Wizard Federation scans, Plasmamen show up to rip out what the Abductors put in, to nip Cult runes and generally be creepy motherfuckers.

Long post short: Ancient, highly advanced isolationists with a grudge against humans for being up-and-coming top dogs. Extremely militant in their ways, and given Latin names by humanity.
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Re: PLASMAMEN GENERAL

Post by Remie Richards » #86111

As for mention of sexes/genders, in code, they have sexes = 0, but at most this means they have no sexual dimorphism (since that's a variable for sprites), they're all pink burny skeletons.
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Re: PLASMAMEN GENERAL

Post by DemonFiren » #86112

I'd like to point out that a tribal social structure and according rules, as well as a heavy emphasis on myth and ritual, do not necessarily mean a culture is primitive - it merely functions differently.

Most 'advanced' human civilisations are so-called 'hot societies', focusing actively on changing their environment and measuring their advancement by writing down history.
Imagine a space-age cold society: They have no sense of history whatsoever, except for a 'beginning-of-time' age of myth that was populated by their ancestors, and everything today is done as it was done back then - there is no chance of explaining to them that their ancestors probably did not have laser guns, everything is still done the same way, improvements are accepted, integrated, and considered normal. This culture is in a bubble of stasis, is 'as it has always been', but still advances - more slowly, perhaps, but in a far more stable manner.
Imagine an entire species united in such a structure, for thousands of years longer than humanity has been. They would be more advanced, yes, but their culture might seem backwards to us, especially due to their heavy focus on myth and symbolism. Cue tensions.
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Re: PLASMAMEN GENERAL

Post by Shaps-cloud » #86155

Having Latin names seems kinda restricting, since 1. Humans can already use Latin names, so it's not unique, and 2. I guarantee you most people will just have to look up usable Latin names because who the fuck knows Latin names off the top of their head?

What about for the format, it's just "Name-Number", like Ted-372? It's scientific which suits their mysterious nature, and I personally find it hilarious that instead of trying to learn the complex language and naming systems that the plasmamen use, Centcom just gave them random names off a list and a number. They can still have whatever name they want for their background IC, but as far as life on the station and with Nanotrasen, they're just Dinkleberg-193. This also has the benefit of avoiding having to codify their native language or anything, and keep it mysterious and unknown

Also, plasmamen can just say whatever stupid bullshit they want about their culture and lifestyle, and the other crew members have no way of knowing if they're being serious or just fucking with them. When asked about if/how they celebrate birthdays, a plasmaman can say something like "our years last ten times longer than your years, which makes it much easier for us to completely destroy our living quarters and move to a new location every birthday, as is our tradition", and no one would be sure if they were lying or not
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Re: PLASMAMEN GENERAL

Post by Scones » #86188

Man, having my avatar poorly sized for about 10 hours was really embarrassing.

Anyways, the way we played them in the first contact (disaster that it was) was as a race that is slightly on-par/ahead of NT in some regards, but fairly far behind in others. Things like the AI were a technological miracle, while conversely things like the engine/most Science equipment was unremarkable at best. We do seem to have a lot of different ideas going around (Progressive scientists, old mysterious counterparts to the ayys, militant neo-facists) so I'm really not sure how we can reach any sort of consensus. I'm heading the discussion but making executive rulings on a self-appointed position of community interest is silly.

I really do like Demon's concept of a cold society, though, and it circumvents the issue of having a weird and in-depth history.

EDIT: We'll solve this the American way - via Democracy. There's a poll in the OP, and I'm going to be formatting it for information that we officialize via vote. Honestly, I think it'll be good, for once, to have hard lore regarding a race.
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Re: PLASMAMEN GENERAL

Post by Loonikus » #86212

To be honest, I prefer the original /vg/ lore for them. They are simply humans who were exposed to plasma fires and underwent a poorly understood binding process between their charred bodies and post-fire plasma residue. Technically they are more like undead humans rather than a new alien race, but since most of their body has been replaced or co-opted with plasma (think along the lines of Tiberium infection) they tend to have severely stunted memories of their previous life and personality. There isn't much human left about them. For naming, they either retain their old human names, parts of their humans names, or NT assigned IDs.

But if I had to choose a new naming scheme though, I'd choose latin.

Edit: I also dislike having such a rigid lore to them. Practically nothing else we have is so set in stone, why should this be? Maybe players should come up with their own reason as to why burning plasma skeletons are running around.
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Re: PLASMAMEN GENERAL

Post by TechnoAlchemist » #86219

Plasma men is just what humans call them right? Are they going to have an actual race name like lizard people do?
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Re: PLASMAMEN GENERAL

Post by Scones » #86223

TechnoAlchemist wrote:Plasma men is just what humans call them right? Are they going to have an actual race name like lizard people do?
'Plasmamen' is a colloquial term coined by Nanotrasen employees. They'll probably have a name in their own language.
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Re: PLASMAMEN GENERAL

Post by TechnoAlchemist » #86229

So in terms of weapons do we agree on brute based accelerators? Kind of like mag rifles/rail guns and the like.
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Re: PLASMAMEN GENERAL

Post by Stickymayhem » #86230

I'm cool with whatever, any of these ideas are interesting.

We should totally keep at least a tiny bit of consistency to avoid a round of military fascists and a round of academics confusing everyone as to how to deal with them appropriately.

Having done an event with the military thing, I think scientist makes more sense. They already have the advanced suits and they are pretty vulnerable in general.

As for weapons there are plenty of incendiary bombs and guns. I went for advanced plasma cutters for utility/self-defence and full on fire everything for proper combat.
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Re: PLASMAMEN GENERAL

Post by DemonFiren » #86233

So, they're basically like Zoltan with incendiaries.

This is going to be fun, then!
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Re: PLASMAMEN GENERAL

Post by TechnoAlchemist » #86236

I feel like plasma men would have originally have developed non-incendiary weapons due to the fact that they would be using them primarily against each other before anything else.

I'm sure in a multiracial war incendiaries would be used, but I always imagined that their primary weapon production(in terms of battles against other plasma men) would be kinetic based to avoid suit breaches and secondhand fires.
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Re: PLASMAMEN GENERAL

Post by DemonFiren » #86238

We could combine that.

What isn't incendiary or heat-based, but deals a fuckton of burn regardless? Cold. As they discovered lasers, their dream was less the zappy, pew-pew laser gun and more the cooling laser, Bose-Einstein snap-freezing deal. Their energy and energy-based weaponry developed accordingly.
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Re: PLASMAMEN GENERAL

Post by Loonikus » #86241

Stickymayhem wrote:I'm cool with whatever, any of these ideas are interesting.

We should totally keep at least a tiny bit of consistency to avoid a round of military fascists and a round of academics confusing everyone as to how to deal with them appropriately.

Having done an event with the military thing, I think scientist makes more sense. They already have the advanced suits and they are pretty vulnerable in general.

As for weapons there are plenty of incendiary bombs and guns. I went for advanced plasma cutters for utility/self-defence and full on fire everything for proper combat.
It makes sense that the plasmamen on SS13 would be academic types. SS13 is a plasma research station, what better way to study plasma based life forms than to employ them? Well, a lot of ways really, but this is the same company that puts clowns and mimes on its "cutting edge" research stations so ya.
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Plus it ties in with my preferred canon. The reason plasmamen have their jobs on the station is twofold: NT wants to observe the effects of plasma on human tissue and how it affects work performance and because the NT Workers Union traded the entire workforces post-humorous rights of attorney for a keg of Space Beer at the union meetings.
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Re: PLASMAMEN GENERAL

Post by Shaps-cloud » #86243

Why worry about casting all of plasmamen as either warriors or scientists? Focus more on their mannerisms and appearance than their history and culture, which should be kept mysterious and left to plasmamen players to bring up in game. The crewmembers know precisely fuck all about plasmamen, so said plasmamen should be free to make up pretty much whatever they want about their storied history. Conflict between two plasmamen's stories? That simulates how misinformation spreads and how different people have different accounts of the same events, and it's not like it's the crew's place to be educated in plasmamen history better than the plasmamen themselves and say which one's right. Just let the crew sit back and enjoy the wild stories

Also, like I said, it's silly and boring to make an entire race good at science or war or something. It just limits the kinds of characters that people can run, and science and military are pretty much the opposite of being mutually exclusive in the first place. It takes all kinds of people to make a civilization work, so why limit ourselves to one side of the fence?
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Re: PLASMAMEN GENERAL

Post by Loonikus » #86248

Ya, and everything Shaps said. One trick pony races are tropes of the worst kind. Frankly, I'd just leave their backstory at "We don't really know what they are because Nanotrasen won't say much, but rumors range from the results of industrial accidents to ancient aliens. All we know for sure is that they are spooky plasma skeletons in space."

Hell, the only reason lizards have a naming system is because le ebin argonian meme.
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Re: PLASMAMEN GENERAL

Post by Scones » #86251

I'm really leaning towards saying that in terms of weapons, developed by Plasmamen to fight other Plasmamen/things in their native regions, we should say that incendiaries are out of the question. Accelerators, like Techno said, make the most sense - They breach suits, flesh, and most importantly, are not heat/ignition-based. A Plasmaman with a flamethrower is a stupid and suicidal one who is going to kill not only himself but destroy the atmosphere of his surroundings. I highly doubt they would be anything beyond madman's pipe dreams/war crimes.
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Well, mannerisms are a byproduct of culture and culture is fairly heavily influenced by the motives/behavior of it's adherents. A strong military culture may be very different from a strong sciencey culture. While obviously there is something of everything in the broader culture as a whole I think it's perfectly acceptable to make them slightly thematic - It's a lot more interesting, in my eyes, to have them with a distinct background to draw from as opposed to "oh anything goes"

What I can't stress enough is that this is supposed to provide continuity to something in our SS13 universe, which is really REALLY good if you ever want to promote any sort of immersive IC interactions. Sure, having a bunch of people ICly arguing over background cannon is funny sometimes but it gets really old once it happens one time too many, or at a crucial moment.
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Re: PLASMAMEN GENERAL

Post by Shaps-cloud » #86255

The difference is that mannerisms are readily apparent to anyone who's around the plasmamen, what isn't readily apparent is their entire history and all of their customs. Having some background to provide a jumping off point for people would be good, but just don't overdo it and take all the mystery out of such a bizarre species.

Also what kind of crucial moment involves arguing over background canon?
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Re: PLASMAMEN GENERAL

Post by DemonFiren » #86257

I propose that those who like background and complex lore go ahead and write, but do not expect anyone else to buy into it.

I also would like to note that the cause for some odd quirks isn't always readily apparent, which is what makes them quirks. Even something as simple as 'Bless you!' after sneezing may come across as funny - not only to aliens, but to humans from different cultures.
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Re: PLASMAMEN GENERAL

Post by Scones » #86376

DemonFiren wrote:I propose that those who like background and complex lore go ahead and write, but do not expect anyone else to buy into it.
I was ready to acknowledge this coming in, but I guess now would be a good time to revisit and expand upon that. I like lore - I enjoy reading it, I enjoy writing it, and I enjoy shaping the characters I play around it. Conversely, however, I don't think it should be forced upon people. Individuals can and should feel free to write their own adaptations and alterations because at the end of the day, we're light-RP at best and mostly freeform. Hell, some of the most enjoyable RP I've had was with completely serious characters and then time-travelling space Hitler.

I think the idea behind this is to provide a starting point, and a basis for people interested in running characters congruent to others. Nobody is being forced into it. Like, there's a long way to go code-wise regarding making them playable (And even then, it'll be a stretch). At the end of the day, this is for fun - Nothing more. This is not the beginning of my Bay takeover of the administration and policy. This is just for the interested parties.

With that somewhat serious note out of the way, I'm going to leave the naming poll open for another day and close it tomorrow evening.
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Re: PLASMAMEN GENERAL

Post by Steelpoint » #86420

As I've said before, it seems NT/Humans have a kink in that whenever they discover a alien race they assign them the name of the most similar looking Earth animal with the term 'men' attached to the end.

So Lizardmen, Plantmen and now Plasmamen.

E: Of course this is not their real species name, but as far as anyone is concerned its much easier to name them after a animal.
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Steelpoint
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Re: PLASMAMEN GENERAL

Post by Steelpoint » #86444

However after some further looking into this, why exactly do we want to call these "aliens"? Just label them as some sort of NT experiment gone haywire and call it.
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Re: PLASMAMEN GENERAL

Post by Stickymayhem » #86449

Steelpoint wrote:However after some further looking into this, why exactly do we want to call these "aliens"? Just label them as some sort of NT experiment gone haywire and call it.
Because "dood who happens to be plasma now" isn't as interesting as a whole new race.
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Re: PLASMAMEN GENERAL

Post by Steelpoint » #86450

A whole new race who coincidently have the exact bone structure as a human being? We should either change the sprites or make them human mutants.
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Re: PLASMAMEN GENERAL

Post by RogerWilco » #86451

I prefer plasmamen as the /vg/station implementation as reanimated, plasma saturated corpses than generic alien race #9352
so yes, steelpoint is right
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Re: PLASMAMEN GENERAL

Post by allura » #86499

2late, i made a wiki entry for plasmamen using /vg/'s lore for them
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Re: PLASMAMEN GENERAL

Post by Scones » #86500

allura wrote:2late, i made a wiki entry for plasmamen using /vg/'s lore for them
yfw wiki subject to change
plplplplp WOOOOooo hahahhaha
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Re: PLASMAMEN GENERAL

Post by allura » #86501

Scones wrote:
allura wrote:2late, i made a wiki entry for plasmamen using /vg/'s lore for them
yfw wiki subject to change
i'll change it back
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Re: PLASMAMEN GENERAL

Post by Lovecraft » #86502

What's so wrong with taking it in our own direction?
We should hold a seperate vote to test the waters so see what the majority wants the lore to reflect, but I personally think it's a little punkish to just "change something back" without having discussion about it.
Unless you created Plasmamen and I'm unaware? (Sorry if that's the case!)
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Re: PLASMAMEN GENERAL

Post by allura » #86505

because porting another codebase's feature (one that they specifically wanted to be exclusive to their server) and then giving it our own retarded lore when /vg/'s is very cool is retarded and rude
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Re: PLASMAMEN GENERAL

Post by Scones » #86506

allura wrote:because porting another codebase's feature (one that they specifically wanted to be exclusive to their server) and then giving it our own retarded lore when /vg/'s is very cool is retarded and rude
You're entitled to that opinion but trying to comandeer something other people are interested in doing and saying "lol i troll u" is pretty shit.
plplplplp WOOOOooo hahahhaha
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Re: PLASMAMEN GENERAL

Post by allura » #86507

Scones wrote:
allura wrote:because porting another codebase's feature (one that they specifically wanted to be exclusive to their server) and then giving it our own retarded lore when /vg/'s is very cool is retarded and rude
You're entitled to that opinion but trying to comandeer something other people are interested in doing and saying "lol i troll u" is pretty shit.
lol i troll u
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Re: PLASMAMEN GENERAL

Post by Lovecraft » #86508

Well I certainly didn't know they wanted it to be exclusive, but wouldn't that mean moving it in a direction as far away from the source as possible would be better than having a literal rip?
Who knows? Down the line the sprite work could change.
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Re: PLASMAMEN GENERAL

Post by allura » #86509

Lovecraft wrote:Well I certainly didn't know they wanted it to be exclusive, but wouldn't that mean moving it in a direction as far away from the source as possible would be better than having a literal rip?
Who knows? Down the line the sprite work could change.
we already use a sprite different than /vg/'s. and no, ripping a feature then changing it and calling it YOUR OWN ORIGINAL CHARACTER is bad.
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Re: PLASMAMEN GENERAL

Post by allura » #86512

plkease add an option for just normal names for plasman men :ai:
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