Why do we run manual and bagil/sybil under one codebase/administration?

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CPTANT
 
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Why do we run manual and bagil/sybil under one codebase/administration?

Postby CPTANT » Fri May 15, 2020 9:22 am #561882

I have been thinking about this and a growing number of policy discussions I see devolve in a debate whether one thing is appropriate for manual vs the other servers. The same is becoming evident for a lot of code discussions. I think it is becoming more obvious that the paths of the low rp and mid rp servers are slowly diverging. What is the advantage of keeping these servers as one codebase/administration when forking would allow for rules and code to be more easier tailored to the play style of each server? Forking still allows you to switch between servers when you please.

Please don't kneejerk against this topic. I just want a discussion about the question whether the current arrangement is sustainable and the best one in the long run.
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Re: Why do we run manual and bagil/sybil under one codebase/administration?

Postby Man_Shroom » Fri May 15, 2020 3:37 pm #561899

Go play on bay or one of the other countless downstream servers that run modified /tg/ code

Making 2 separate codebases and 2 separate admin teams will just lead to the server pop and community becoming fractured and split.

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Re: Why do we run manual and bagil/sybil under one codebase/administration?

Postby Atlanta-Ned » Fri May 15, 2020 3:52 pm #561900

we already have a separate codebase/admin team and its called tgmc and i hate them
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Re: Why do we run manual and bagil/sybil under one codebase/administration?

Postby wesoda25 » Fri May 15, 2020 4:22 pm #561901

Who is gonna put in the work?
How Much Does Crushed Stone Delivery Cost?

Summary: Gravel Delivery Prices
Minus crushed rock costs $12-$35 per cubic yard while clean crushed rock costs $30-$50 per cubic yard. Delivery and spreading can double those prices. However, the more material you order, the less the total cost. Delivery is usually free of charge up to 10 miles.

Relevant: https://www.kompareit.com/homeandgarden ... stone1.png

Crushed rock is a type of gravel that has been mechanically broken down into small pieces and sorted by size. It is a highly versatile product, used for driveways, pathways, flower beds or as a base for concrete, pavers, asphalt, retaining walls, sheds or foundations.

Crushed rock is a very strong and durable material, and it offers great traction. It is available for delivery by the cubic yard, typically by landscaping supply companies that also sell products such as mulch, sand and soil.

About Crushed Rock Delivery
There are two basic types of crushed rocks: minus and clean. Both are available in a variety of sizes and colors, but they are used differently.

  1. Any crushed rock with the word minus in the description (3/4-inch minus, for example) will also contain smaller pieces of rock, dirt and/or sand. This type packs down tightly, making it ideal for established driveways without drainage problems, as well as a base material for porches, patios, walkways, driveways and the like.
  2. Clean crushed rock does not have the smaller pieces of rock, dirt and/or sand. If it is advertised as 1/4 inch, all pieces are that size. Because clean crushed rock does not pack down tightly, it is not ideal as a base. But it is great for new driveways or those with drainage problems. It also works well for decorative pathways, walkways, plant beds and flower beds.

If you’re unsure of which type to buy, ask a professional, particularly if you have problems such as excessive erosion, improper drainage or muddy conditions.

Crushed rock is typically sold by the cubic yard (27 square feet). Before you place an order, you’ll have to url=https://www.calculatorsoup.com/calculators/construction/square-footage-calculator.php]determine the square footage of the area you need to covero/url] and how deep you want the rock to be. As a guideline, one cubic yard covers about 324 square feet, one inch deep. Similarly, it covers 162 square feet, 2 inches deep.

pPea Gravel Cost
Expect to pay between around $35 per cubic yard or $40 to $45 per ton for pea gravel delivery. The price will decrease significantly for large quantities of pea gravel. If you are looking for a color other than gray, the cost will increase.

Pea gravel is a small hard stone that is about the size of a pea. The most common size is 3/8 inch. It is smooth and generally round with no sharp edges. It is frequently used in home gardening and decorative landscaping projects such as accenting flower beds and gardens.

Cost of Crushed Rock Delivery
The price of crushed rock depends on the type and size you select, and the amount. It is also heavily influenced by your geographic location. Prices in big cities are easily double what they are in many rural areas.

  1. Minus crushed rock is less expensive, ranging from about $12-$35 per cubic yard, not including delivery or spreading.
  2. Clean crushed rock usually ranges in price from $30-$50 per cubic yard, also not including delivery or spreading.

Delivery and spreading charges vary, too, but in many cases they will double the price. The more you order, however, the less per cubic yard delivery charges will be.

Source: https://www.kompareit.com/homeandgarden ... costs.html

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Re: Why do we run manual and bagil/sybil under one codebase/administration?

Postby RaveRadbury » Fri May 15, 2020 6:59 pm #561909

The reasoning is pretty straightforward, and examples of this can be found in the increase in sects of Christianity as well as the fracturing of political movements. As an organization gets larger there are increasing opportunities for friction and differentiation. In some cases this friction and difference can cause a full schism and separation. The issue is that power is also split, with the resulting organizations now being less able to accomplish their goals, as well as having fewer resources.

In addition to this, our headcoder has gone so far as to say that our codebase is already MRP. A lot of the threads you are seeing are largely related to policy which are administrative issues regarding rules and expectations for gameplay. Splitting the codebases might allow for some easy policy fixes, but at the end of the day, one of the biggest issues with tg's MRP project has been a lack of framing and precedent for playstyle expectations. This in combination with our start from a perceived LRP space, has resulted in growing pains as we try to be something more without having known and agreed-upon standards to reach for.

Finally, while we have had alternate codebases, it's my understanding that those were for exploring new features and mechanics (I wasn't around for this so please correct me if I'm wrong). When it comes to "Can we have an LRP and MRP server on the same codebase?", it seems that goon and bee both were able to to say "Yeah sure". I think this further ties into the idea that RP level is most-reflected in policy and rules, or at least so much so that the risk of accelerating a split in the playerbase with seperate codebases for rulesets is not worthwhile.

And so, I am left with these questions:
  • You speak of divergence between the servers, where do you see enabling this divergence further going?
  • With a split in resources as coders are eventually made to pick a base (as they are tired of trying to support both servers with ever-increasing differences), do you think this will increase or decrease feelings of resentment between codebases?
  • What are the concrete issues going on currently that would be solved with separate codebases?
  • Why is debate bad for the community? If anything, people are caring and taking their time to participate in a community forum. What gains do we get from avoiding these discussions? What losses?
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Re: Why do we run manual and bagil/sybil under one codebase/administration?

Postby Shadowflame909 » Fri May 15, 2020 7:08 pm #561912

Unironically my only opinion on such a topic is that the creation of a separate HRP /tg/ server, where you send all the Bar Rpers who hate xenobio, mining, hulks, Mutation Botany, and combat in general, every mode but extended but love the "community" and is the only reason they still play. It would create an environment that'd be very apt and enjoyable for everyone.
Last edited by Shadowflame909 on Fri May 15, 2020 7:25 pm, edited 1 time in total.

Spoiler:
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ThanatosRa wrote:My biggest problem is that I can't fix any of this.


Boris wrote:shadowflame either has a brain the size of a pea or one the size of the moon and he's playing 58D chess.


BeeSting12 wrote:please write an apology to this forums, this community, the host, and the internet as a whole for the data storage space you wasted with this complaint.


BebeYoshi wrote:Saltyflame909


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Re: Why do we run manual and bagil/sybil under one codebase/administration?

Postby wesoda25 » Fri May 15, 2020 7:15 pm #561914

that sounds like hell
How Much Does Crushed Stone Delivery Cost?

Summary: Gravel Delivery Prices
Minus crushed rock costs $12-$35 per cubic yard while clean crushed rock costs $30-$50 per cubic yard. Delivery and spreading can double those prices. However, the more material you order, the less the total cost. Delivery is usually free of charge up to 10 miles.

Relevant: https://www.kompareit.com/homeandgarden ... stone1.png

Crushed rock is a type of gravel that has been mechanically broken down into small pieces and sorted by size. It is a highly versatile product, used for driveways, pathways, flower beds or as a base for concrete, pavers, asphalt, retaining walls, sheds or foundations.

Crushed rock is a very strong and durable material, and it offers great traction. It is available for delivery by the cubic yard, typically by landscaping supply companies that also sell products such as mulch, sand and soil.

About Crushed Rock Delivery
There are two basic types of crushed rocks: minus and clean. Both are available in a variety of sizes and colors, but they are used differently.

  1. Any crushed rock with the word minus in the description (3/4-inch minus, for example) will also contain smaller pieces of rock, dirt and/or sand. This type packs down tightly, making it ideal for established driveways without drainage problems, as well as a base material for porches, patios, walkways, driveways and the like.
  2. Clean crushed rock does not have the smaller pieces of rock, dirt and/or sand. If it is advertised as 1/4 inch, all pieces are that size. Because clean crushed rock does not pack down tightly, it is not ideal as a base. But it is great for new driveways or those with drainage problems. It also works well for decorative pathways, walkways, plant beds and flower beds.

If you’re unsure of which type to buy, ask a professional, particularly if you have problems such as excessive erosion, improper drainage or muddy conditions.

Crushed rock is typically sold by the cubic yard (27 square feet). Before you place an order, you’ll have to url=https://www.calculatorsoup.com/calculators/construction/square-footage-calculator.php]determine the square footage of the area you need to covero/url] and how deep you want the rock to be. As a guideline, one cubic yard covers about 324 square feet, one inch deep. Similarly, it covers 162 square feet, 2 inches deep.

pPea Gravel Cost
Expect to pay between around $35 per cubic yard or $40 to $45 per ton for pea gravel delivery. The price will decrease significantly for large quantities of pea gravel. If you are looking for a color other than gray, the cost will increase.

Pea gravel is a small hard stone that is about the size of a pea. The most common size is 3/8 inch. It is smooth and generally round with no sharp edges. It is frequently used in home gardening and decorative landscaping projects such as accenting flower beds and gardens.

Cost of Crushed Rock Delivery
The price of crushed rock depends on the type and size you select, and the amount. It is also heavily influenced by your geographic location. Prices in big cities are easily double what they are in many rural areas.

  1. Minus crushed rock is less expensive, ranging from about $12-$35 per cubic yard, not including delivery or spreading.
  2. Clean crushed rock usually ranges in price from $30-$50 per cubic yard, also not including delivery or spreading.

Delivery and spreading charges vary, too, but in many cases they will double the price. The more you order, however, the less per cubic yard delivery charges will be.

Source: https://www.kompareit.com/homeandgarden ... costs.html

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Re: Why do we run manual and bagil/sybil under one codebase/administration?

Postby Shadowflame909 » Fri May 15, 2020 7:24 pm #561915

wesoda25 wrote:that sounds like hell


better it be in hell than on earth

Spoiler:
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ThanatosRa wrote:My biggest problem is that I can't fix any of this.


Boris wrote:shadowflame either has a brain the size of a pea or one the size of the moon and he's playing 58D chess.


BeeSting12 wrote:please write an apology to this forums, this community, the host, and the internet as a whole for the data storage space you wasted with this complaint.


BebeYoshi wrote:Saltyflame909


Cobby wrote:The trash bin... have you lost your way home anon?

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Re: Why do we run manual and bagil/sybil under one codebase/administration?

Postby RaveRadbury » Fri May 15, 2020 7:32 pm #561916

Shadowflame909 wrote:Unironically my only opinion on such a topic is that the creation of a separate HRP /tg/ server, where you send all the Bar Rpers who hate xenobio, mining, hulks, Mutation Botany, and combat in general, every mode but extended but love the "community" and is the only reason they still play. It would create an environment that'd be very apt and enjoyable for everyone.

wesoda25 wrote:that sounds like hell

Shadowflame909 wrote:better it be in hell than on earth


Did you really just bad-faith post in the policy thread like this? Just so you can list your personal grievances and attribute them to the MRP players? You've been going on about these things far before Manuel existed.
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Re: Why do we run manual and bagil/sybil under one codebase/administration?

Postby Shadowflame909 » Fri May 15, 2020 7:37 pm #561917

I'm a MRP player.

Edit: And this thread is talking about separation...I'm just sharing my opinion on what exactly I think needs to be separated.

Please share yours.

Spoiler:
Image

ThanatosRa wrote:My biggest problem is that I can't fix any of this.


Boris wrote:shadowflame either has a brain the size of a pea or one the size of the moon and he's playing 58D chess.


BeeSting12 wrote:please write an apology to this forums, this community, the host, and the internet as a whole for the data storage space you wasted with this complaint.


BebeYoshi wrote:Saltyflame909


Cobby wrote:The trash bin... have you lost your way home anon?

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RaveRadbury
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Re: Why do we run manual and bagil/sybil under one codebase/administration?

Postby RaveRadbury » Fri May 15, 2020 7:41 pm #561918

Shadowflame909 wrote:I'm a MRP player.

Edit: And this thread is talking about separation...I'm just sharing my opinion on what exactly I think needs to be separated.

Please share yours.


I did, did you miss my wall of text somehow?

I also don't understand why you would say "better it be in hell than on earth". Did you just quip without thinking about the implications of what you are saying?
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Re: Why do we run manual and bagil/sybil under one codebase/administration?

Postby wesoda25 » Fri May 15, 2020 7:51 pm #561919

It seems you have made the mistake of taking shadowflame posts seriously
How Much Does Crushed Stone Delivery Cost?

Summary: Gravel Delivery Prices
Minus crushed rock costs $12-$35 per cubic yard while clean crushed rock costs $30-$50 per cubic yard. Delivery and spreading can double those prices. However, the more material you order, the less the total cost. Delivery is usually free of charge up to 10 miles.

Relevant: https://www.kompareit.com/homeandgarden ... stone1.png

Crushed rock is a type of gravel that has been mechanically broken down into small pieces and sorted by size. It is a highly versatile product, used for driveways, pathways, flower beds or as a base for concrete, pavers, asphalt, retaining walls, sheds or foundations.

Crushed rock is a very strong and durable material, and it offers great traction. It is available for delivery by the cubic yard, typically by landscaping supply companies that also sell products such as mulch, sand and soil.

About Crushed Rock Delivery
There are two basic types of crushed rocks: minus and clean. Both are available in a variety of sizes and colors, but they are used differently.

  1. Any crushed rock with the word minus in the description (3/4-inch minus, for example) will also contain smaller pieces of rock, dirt and/or sand. This type packs down tightly, making it ideal for established driveways without drainage problems, as well as a base material for porches, patios, walkways, driveways and the like.
  2. Clean crushed rock does not have the smaller pieces of rock, dirt and/or sand. If it is advertised as 1/4 inch, all pieces are that size. Because clean crushed rock does not pack down tightly, it is not ideal as a base. But it is great for new driveways or those with drainage problems. It also works well for decorative pathways, walkways, plant beds and flower beds.

If you’re unsure of which type to buy, ask a professional, particularly if you have problems such as excessive erosion, improper drainage or muddy conditions.

Crushed rock is typically sold by the cubic yard (27 square feet). Before you place an order, you’ll have to url=https://www.calculatorsoup.com/calculators/construction/square-footage-calculator.php]determine the square footage of the area you need to covero/url] and how deep you want the rock to be. As a guideline, one cubic yard covers about 324 square feet, one inch deep. Similarly, it covers 162 square feet, 2 inches deep.

pPea Gravel Cost
Expect to pay between around $35 per cubic yard or $40 to $45 per ton for pea gravel delivery. The price will decrease significantly for large quantities of pea gravel. If you are looking for a color other than gray, the cost will increase.

Pea gravel is a small hard stone that is about the size of a pea. The most common size is 3/8 inch. It is smooth and generally round with no sharp edges. It is frequently used in home gardening and decorative landscaping projects such as accenting flower beds and gardens.

Cost of Crushed Rock Delivery
The price of crushed rock depends on the type and size you select, and the amount. It is also heavily influenced by your geographic location. Prices in big cities are easily double what they are in many rural areas.

  1. Minus crushed rock is less expensive, ranging from about $12-$35 per cubic yard, not including delivery or spreading.
  2. Clean crushed rock usually ranges in price from $30-$50 per cubic yard, also not including delivery or spreading.

Delivery and spreading charges vary, too, but in many cases they will double the price. The more you order, however, the less per cubic yard delivery charges will be.

Source: https://www.kompareit.com/homeandgarden ... costs.html

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Re: Why do we run manual and bagil/sybil under one codebase/administration?

Postby Shadowflame909 » Fri May 15, 2020 7:58 pm #561920

Well, let me say that I disagree with the inherent values of your wall of text.

This server codebase is constantly shifting along in a different direction every time a new maintainer gets added to it, or an old one quits.

At first, it was deemed "Too much RP" and the standard gradually lower into the state many players enjoy now. Now it's deemed too low stakes/death doesn't have any value, and the standard is rising, alienating the players it gained from its previous low-standard state.

When Oranges gets bored/quits, the inherent scale will probably shift once more again, lowering the state of play.

The issue with all these changes is that it has kind of created a major division in the playerbase.

Name-Drop Time to try and convince you that I'm not just talking out of my ass, PM me if you got name-dropped and dissent to this:

You have players like me, confused rock, flatulent, imsxz, and Ayy Lemoh who enjoy the low-bar of violence and the creative and easy to access potential to explosive and destructive tools.

Whilst you also have players like Mickyan, necromancer Anne, shaps, and ???. Who may feel that it's too easy and grossly incentivized to be "powerful" over just interacting, and roleplaying with others!

Neither of these opinions is wrong, just different reasons people might enjoy the game.

A split codebase direction catering towards these specific playstyle enjoyment methods would probably overall increase the amount of happiness and would lessen the drama (cat-girls.)

But either way, nothing is going to happen until MSO wants it to happen.

Kind of out of the hands of both headmins and maintainers, whichever ones you were trying to appeal to.

TLDR: This thread has a very very tiny chance of actually effecting anything, mainly because its target audience has no power over this topic.

Spoiler:
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ThanatosRa wrote:My biggest problem is that I can't fix any of this.


Boris wrote:shadowflame either has a brain the size of a pea or one the size of the moon and he's playing 58D chess.


BeeSting12 wrote:please write an apology to this forums, this community, the host, and the internet as a whole for the data storage space you wasted with this complaint.


BebeYoshi wrote:Saltyflame909


Cobby wrote:The trash bin... have you lost your way home anon?

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Re: Why do we run manual and bagil/sybil under one codebase/administration?

Postby Cobby » Fri May 15, 2020 8:59 pm #561924

What code-aspects are getting push back because of difference between other servers/manuel?

We already design the game to support higher levels of RP, if you are looking for low-bar RP with supporting code you have been playing the wrong server for quite a while. Even when I first joined the impression was "Lower RP on a codebase geared towards MRP".
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Re: Why do we run manual and bagil/sybil under one codebase/administration?

Postby Shadowflame909 » Fri May 15, 2020 9:12 pm #561927

Probably.

Not hard to attract the wrong crowd though, when mining, xenobio, and the mutation aspect of botany are so engaging with the sort of the lower-no RP creative destruction aspect of the playerbase.

I'd legitimately have nothing to play or do if they were gone.

Edit: Whilst so many of the names I listed as an alternative type of player the game also caters to, would, and might not even be affected at all by these changes.

Spoiler:
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ThanatosRa wrote:My biggest problem is that I can't fix any of this.


Boris wrote:shadowflame either has a brain the size of a pea or one the size of the moon and he's playing 58D chess.


BeeSting12 wrote:please write an apology to this forums, this community, the host, and the internet as a whole for the data storage space you wasted with this complaint.


BebeYoshi wrote:Saltyflame909


Cobby wrote:The trash bin... have you lost your way home anon?

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Re: Why do we run manual and bagil/sybil under one codebase/administration?

Postby BeeSting12 » Fri May 15, 2020 9:32 pm #561928

What is the advantage of keeping these servers as one codebase/administration when forking would allow for rules and code to be more easier tailored to the play style of each server?

Because we need to find people willing to code and manage a Manuel codebase and deal with eventual conflicts with the tg codebase since I’m assuming you want to keep porting features and bug fixes. There are a few code fixes for Manuel that would be nice but it might already be possible to add those to the config instead. The codebase issue should be discussed elsewhere though since this is more about administration.

Administration wise is the same issue but compounded by the fact that we need to find suitable people to admin the server. I’d imagine recruiting Manuel-specific admins would take months before Manuel is ready to split completely with tg’s administration and even then there will probably still be overlap because some tg admins would want to keep adminning both servers. Furthermore would there be a separate set of headmins for Manuel? New discord? New forums?

Overall it’s a lot of work for not a lot of benefit. In the case of TGMC it was very much needed because the codebases are entirely different, the rulesets are only similar in their base concepts, and it’s an entirely different culture. Right now, there’s no need for a different codebase and the rulesets are nearly identical besides the RP rules. I don’t know about culture since I don’t play there much— I’ve joined a couple times to answer ahelps.
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Re: Why do we run manual and bagil/sybil under one codebase/administration?

Postby Not-Dorsidarf » Fri May 15, 2020 9:34 pm #561929

The reason is cause they arent all that different ruleswise.


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Re: Why do we run manual and bagil/sybil under one codebase/administration?

Postby Flatulent » Fri May 15, 2020 10:06 pm #561935

codebase is erp not mrp but it’s important to note that nothing but policy can influence what a server truly is roleplay-wise

no matter how much garbage you add to a codebase it won’t become mrp even if you try really hard, it’s always up to admins to enforce the roleplay standards on each server. you can easily go to a HRP server and play like you would on bagil there and the only thing that can stop you are admins

Manuel is no different and jannies there have to enforce the mrp rules. I mean holy shit you could just as easily run Manuel on older tg codebase and nothing would change if admins do their fucking job. you don’t need a separate codebase for MRP, and if you think that codebase alone can influence rp level you are big dumb

which leaves the administration issue. it’s not a real issue because admins have to fit admin standards of the server they are admining on and they are incapable of doing even that, demote the admin or remove their MRP/LRP admin priveleges for the respective server.
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Re: Why do we run manual and bagil/sybil under one codebase/administration?

Postby oranges » Sun May 17, 2020 9:35 pm #562057

The codebase is what defines the RP level, the jannies just get to set what we allow them to set.

If you think otherwise you're deluded.
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Re: Why do we run manual and bagil/sybil under one codebase/administration?

Postby Ayy Lemoh » Sun May 17, 2020 9:54 pm #562059

oranges wrote:The codebase is what defines the RP level, the jannies just get to set what we allow them to set.

If you think otherwise you're deluded.

Lifeweb is an example of what you're saying, but apparently even Lifeweb requires a minor admin presence. That server is basically the closest you can get to a pinnacle of no rules WITH roleplay for anything like ss13. (it still has some though)

Some of the stuff it has is coded so that you're persuaded to roleplay instead of acting like it's a video game, but it can still be semi-ignored or even used for griefing other players. There's a lot of stuff intended to counter shitlords however it's not perfect.

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Re: Why do we run manual and bagil/sybil under one codebase/administration?

Postby Flatulent » Mon May 18, 2020 8:44 am #562068

there are no gameplay mechanics that persuade you to roleplay what are you on about
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Re: Why do we run manual and bagil/sybil under one codebase/administration?

Postby Cobby » Mon May 18, 2020 3:23 pm #562094

The roleplay is enforced with mechanics.

IE when you get hurt, you are mechanically encouraged to go to the doctor as opposed to ghetto surgery because they have the highest chance of success. The doctor is then mechanically encouraged to choose the best option so he can get you out as fast as possible. This is still RP because you are playing the role of a patient, and the doctor is of course taking on their role.

Another example is addiction quirks, you take on the role of an addict who needs X reagent throughout the round even if it creates conflict.
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Re: Why do we run manual and bagil/sybil under one codebase/administration?

Postby Flatulent » Mon May 18, 2020 6:38 pm #562104

addiction isn’t a role play mechanic, because it exists purely to be powergamed.

me having surgery done on me for 3-forever minutes when I’m alt tabbed watching YouTube isn’t roleplay either
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Re: Why do we run manual and bagil/sybil under one codebase/administration?

Postby Ayy Lemoh » Mon May 18, 2020 9:10 pm #562105

Flatulent wrote:addiction isn’t a role play mechanic, because it exists purely to be powergamed.

me having surgery done on me for 3-forever minutes when I’m alt tabbed watching YouTube isn’t roleplay either

If you mean in /tg/station then yeah. The closest you can get is the medical system.

If you mean on lifeweb then I don't want to say specifics in public. An example would be to imagine if you could gain antag points again however sec can then torture you so that you lose them. That's a pretty good reason to actually treat sec seriously and give them information instead of saying "i ain't done nothing and i aint ever gonna talk." It's not perfect though.

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Re: Why do we run manual and bagil/sybil under one codebase/administration?

Postby Reeeee » Tue May 19, 2020 9:27 am #562130

Trying to enforce rules to make roleplay is a terrible idea and always backfires.
Adding content makes roleplay, medical is just the opposite, it cuts the other player out, and always will be unless it's moved away from realism and towards some... co-operative minigame thing.
Where is my "patapon to heal".
Rules never matter beyond "good faith" which never works because some shithead is there always to lawyer them.

Only addition of content lately has been Cybersun Ship and that was just a little grief engine of woes for metagrieffing your killer and mechdrop speedrun simulator that happened every goddamn round.
Before that it was someone enabling the gateway ya'll somehow broke anyway after a year or something with some ???? "it can only open one way" memery. Space dragons new i guess. Haven't really seen much from about it besides "it make carp to griff and kills you. IN SPESS.".
Sad about infection.
That's the real killer of TG, no content. And nerfs and balances and "we completely redid medical" isn't going to turn into content just because you say so.
Guess that's where we are now, trying to eke out a "balance" in a game where you are supposed to die ingloriously.

Look at how WoW does/did it's "roleplay" distinction. There isn't one beyond a title and rest is on you as a player to make best of it.
That's how it has been known to work. Trying to "fix" that by making shit more "realistic" isn't going to make matters better magically.

Recent coding has gone to some insane depths especially with what wounds system added and it makes for a very poor round of SS13 i feel.
My interpretation of what it's "SUPPOSED TO BE" is far more cinematic and comedic experience than you just dropping out of bloodloss fifteen minutes later because you really don't feel like spending five minutes of your day in medbay after getting batted twice on patrol.
But that's on me i guess, i play to play, not getting my toon going "oof ow" in medbay and rather be dead than engage in the process of medical.
Playing is fun, doing homework in medical watching documentaries or youtube to rent more time for your permadeath toon is not.
Isn't the whole theme "station is *DOOMED*" anyway? I'd rather be bothered by silly shit than realism in that scenario.
Dying violently is engaging. Being tended by inept doctors on stasis bed because "bone is break mang" isn't.

Set DNR, enjoy more life. Well, dchat. OOC is muted.

More theme hospital, less dwarf fortress.
Why the fuck are we being bothered with "bone fractures" when we could have "huge floating head syndrome", "codeword disease", "carpification" or "my limbs keep falling off" disease among other silly shit? "me head just plopped off doctor" is far more engaging than "oof my bone is break in leg".
We know people get maimed IRL, that's no reason for us to get bothered by it even in roleplay setting imo. It's in space, we got catgirls and moths and magical plasma and "Hydrogen that is almost but not quite hydrogen". It's pretty dark ages watching doctor do surgery to heal cuts and bruises.
Or even bother with that basic bitch shit.
I mean, do we want to play that guy who is hunched over a corpse in medical inching towards finish line of "this guy fucking DNR'd on me" or do we want to be more like House Md who just screams at people they are wrong and still manages to save people.
House doesn't do cuts and bruises, he deal with lupus. Or INSECTSS UNDER MY SKIIIN.
Guess someone absolutely wanted to make realistic medical for whatever purpose and forgot the "game" aspect of it all and why medical shows are fun to watch...
I guess we are stuck with it now. Can't wait for the next iteration on top of this. Eyeroll.

Isn't manuel notorious for not having any roleplay doe? All i hear from people that visit that Bagil has more roleplay in it. Makes even less sense in that reference frame.
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Re: Why do we run manual and bagil/sybil under one codebase/administration?

Postby oranges » Tue May 19, 2020 10:19 am #562131

Shadowflame909 wrote:TLDR: This thread has a very very tiny chance of actually effecting anything, mainly because its target audience has no power over this topic.

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Re: Why do we run manual and bagil/sybil under one codebase/administration?

Postby actioninja » Tue May 19, 2020 10:25 am #562132

Reeeee wrote:bad post


This is insanely stupid. Just one stupid poorly thought out point right after the other. This is whatever the hell the textual equivalent of a gish gallop is.
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Re: Why do we run manual and bagil/sybil under one codebase/administration?

Postby Reeeee » Tue May 19, 2020 11:00 am #562135

actioninja wrote:a gish gallop

I know you hate me ninja, you don't have to keep proving the point.
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Re: Why do we run manual and bagil/sybil under one codebase/administration?

Postby Cobby » Tue May 19, 2020 8:57 pm #562168

Flatulent wrote:me having surgery done on me for 3-forever minutes when I’m alt tabbed watching YouTube isn’t roleplay either


close your eyes for the 3 minutes instead then so you can immerse yourself as someone undergoing surgery, or start being upset because they arent giving you anesthesia. You are taking the role as the patient, who is being acted on by a player taking the role of doctor, ergo roleplay. Both of you are at this point because of choices your characters have made in the context of the game world.

If your definition of roleplay is exclusive to things like talking in the bar or phoenix wright 2: Xeno vs. Station, which are entirely based on player notion, then just say so rather than have me explain what I believe roleplay is (that is, taking on the role of the character in situations like being an addict, patient, doctor, scientist, etc. where mechanics can enable such) and try to play hot/cold with you because you made a cruddy oneliner that doesn't actually benefit the discussion at all.
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Re: Why do we run manual and bagil/sybil under one codebase/administration?

Postby oranges » Tue May 19, 2020 9:56 pm #562175

flatulent doesn't want roleplay, he wants wish fulfilment
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Re: Why do we run manual and bagil/sybil under one codebase/administration?

Postby Reeeee » Wed May 20, 2020 2:36 am #562200

oranges wrote:flatulent doesn't want roleplay, he wants wish fulfilment

Well, it is a videogame, we do tend to play em for that reason.
Why can't we have both? It's an hour runtime story about station that's doomed. I don't think anyone would be upset if wish fulfillment was part of that. Occasionally, often, every goddamn time why not.
Cobby wrote:Phoenix Wright 2: Xeno vs. Station

Vidjageims has always been about escapism, if it's silly or relies on McGubbins to work doesn't make it bad, just different. Most of Star Trek is pure ass-pull but it's treated with respect in-universe and works because of it.

People roleplay pastel colored cartoon ponies and stuff. "Phoenix Wright: The Space Lawyer and Xenoformic Indictment" is more free form concept in same setting with more to offer imo than you doing paperwork and tax returns for an hour. That's what i feel medical is now, tax returns and filling paperwork. Also, you know, people setting DNR mid-way thru the process is a real factor, so yeah, speed, speed, speed if nothing else.

Give me two stick figures and i'll make a epic story out of it. Give me two normal people with a normal written backstory and I'll write about their normal day. Medical is the latter now. A normal day in a job in your cubicle instead of a scaffold to build stories on. You are married to your job and your tools and can't branch out like all other departments can to make role play more divergent. There are no equivalent of O2 SM for medical, you just keep repeating the same steps over and over again. Stand in front of stasis bed fiddling with tools and print cyber organs to stuff em in DNRed corpses instead of pressing "auto" and forgetting cloner exist to do elective surgery was more emergent gameplay assisting than being forced to do the same thing over and over again. Had more free time to scream at assistants stealing meds at least. And i guess EMT was more of an actual job instead of being meat ambulance.
Sure it was "shit system" but nobody plays to experience joys of being damaged for extended periods of time, do they?

Lizard-the-Actor doing open heart surgery on his blood brother catgirl Honks Awooga with his chainaxe while the security are trying to break in to the abandoned medical to prevent perceived ERP from happening is what medical should enable.
Or other ridiculous shit like that. All it enables is you spending time in medbay as a patient. Being one is shit. Games are fun, yes? Let's not add depressing shit.

Regenerating health when? That, plus wounds you have to get tended by medical staff would be bretty neat test merge to experience.

SS13 is anal to control and borderline spiteful to new players as is. More complex system sounds fine until you have to explain it in SS13 terms to players. Reading a seven page wikipage to know what the fuck anything is in one department kinda kills it for anyone even attempting to join in on the fun rest of us are having. Especially as PRs come and go at the speed they do.
I've been taking teaching shifts on new players as QM lately out of sheer 'rona boredom and dear god is this game hard on the new guys as it stands. Like three people just quit on me midway while i was going thru basics of controls, basic door hack stuff for UI and cargo department and whatever issues we ran into during the shift since they asked for helpies or just looked new and said "yes" when i asked if they wanted to learn how to hack a door. They just gave up on the whole game right then and there when they got stumped by SS13's many newbkillers like "literally murdered in broad daylight", recent classic of "breaking your bone cus some guy had fun with a bat" and the ever funny "i just hit him with a toolbox FNR" while dealing with basic controls. I imagine medical would not be fun addition to that experience for them.

It's a fucking amazing system as a standalone experience but rest of the TG is not even close to meeting the norms and standards of medical/wounds as it is. I bravo you for spending the effort to get there, it would stand alone as a game, but man does it fit badly among all the honking desword supermatter stuff everyone else gets to play with.
I just play here doe.
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Re: Why do we run manual and bagil/sybil under one codebase/administration?

Postby Tlaltecuhtli » Wed May 20, 2020 7:23 am #562212

if you want to teach newfags and want them to stick you should tell them to start with chem instead as its probably the only thing that would impress anyone first touching ss13 with deep mechanics that arent found in similar vidya gaems, whoever put on the wiki that cargo is a newfag friendly job should step on legos as cargo its one of those jobs where you play with already in mind what you want to have fun with this round, low knowledge cargo isnt enjoyable.

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Re: Why do we run manual and bagil/sybil under one codebase/administration?

Postby Reeeee » Wed May 20, 2020 8:47 am #562217

Tlaltecuhtli wrote:if you want to teach newfags

They show up, i teach em cus bored. Cargo is very low effort job these days with H2 farm and all, plenty of time to either get killed or sit in bay and teach em to hack the sec door n shizzle. It's the universal newbie job so ineptitude is expected. Plus i usually have some ass-pull to make em interested in the grander scheme of things. I had few very enjoyable rounds yesterday with us hogging bay and going over combat, guns, ka, hacking, basic antag recognition, atmos basics and organs and whatever the fuck we ran into. Plus cargonia stronk and metagang automatically, helps with the sense of community shit so they stay.

Chem guys seem too high strung and traitorous to teach shit. Cargo guy being inept is him just kinda walking around in a daze and not bothering anyone, inept chemist gets screamed and bullied a lot.
Also you know "i had to test my grenade" ban appeal #56431233.
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Re: Why do we run manual and bagil/sybil under one codebase/administration?

Postby Cobby » Wed May 20, 2020 11:06 pm #562312

You are free to have that opinion, which I'd be happy to respond to if that was the point of the thread. To try to re-rail, I'm a bit confused on how that pertains to the original statement of how that isn't mechanically-encouraged (enforced) roleplay though.

Not finding particular roles or game mechanics enjoyable is not the same as the role and it's mechanics encouraging you to roleplay a particular way. In fact, I believe you agree with me considering your dislike is that it puts you into the role too much that you find it unenjoyable.
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Re: Why do we run manual and bagil/sybil under one codebase/administration?

Postby Reeeee » Thu May 21, 2020 5:34 am #562337

Cobby wrote:how that isn't mechanically-encouraged (enforced) roleplay though.

You try to force shit, it always fails. Quicktime events etc. It should enable, not force. Awoo.
Even ARMA's most dentheaded mods don't make you play surgeon/patient in place for ten minutes.
Well, about ten. Then you go back to pew pew bad guys that's the point of the experience.
We play for the silly shit, right, not for being chained to a stasis bed after fiddling with that silly stuff as a patient.
Yes?
Cobby wrote:Not finding particular roles or game mechanics enjoyable is not the same as the role and it's mechanics encouraging you to roleplay a particular way. In fact, I believe you agree with me considering your dislike is that it puts you into the role too much that you find it unenjoyable.

I don't like playing medical and being the ultimate reason people tap out of the game. It's not healing, it's pretty grieffy as it is, since it's too deep and time consuming compared to the rest of the game going SLIPPYGAS WEW LOOK AT THE TRAITOR GO SOI SOI WITH DESWORD on me.
I always set DNR. Being chained to some autistic "haha i don't know what the fuck i am doing" experiment upwards of ten minutes and more or less coming out of it with permanent or DoT afterwards isn't fun and never something i will willingly experience. That's why we got perks and whatnot.
Those are elective and that's fine. Poor aim has always been hilariously to me and phobias will never not be funny.

Medical systems have always been truncated to medkits and or regenerating health due to medical not meshing with any other game mechanic at all, it sinks time to itself for no benefit than to be time consuming busywork.
And here we got two players engaged in it, not one who has to manage limited resources to do it to survive the long run, but two with infinite resources, one whom just sits there and tries not to make it harder so they can move on and one who is just sinking time into doing what the game tells you must do so that they can move on. System of healing isn't flexible enough to be enjoyed, it's static and monolithic *must* as it is.
Again, not the damage model, it just the healing of it that meshes terribly with the rest of the SUPERMATTER SWORDS LOL. If this is the base system for damage and healing moves on from the time sink it is, then it's going to be amazing.

Being damaged isn't fun, and that's why literally every other game truncates medical to medkits, potions and at the deepest end of it, to "trauma kits" that heal your permanent traumas. Consumables and whatever. Consume and go. Move on to the game proper. Thinking about your rare resources for a five minutes is fine, taking ten minutes to do something with infinite resources it isn't all that engaging.
At the rogue-ish end of gaming like Darkest Dungeon traumas are game mechanics you deal with and move on with a button press at the Monastery etc instead of stopping for ten minutes to do a separate mini-game of "steps 1-3 for five minutes please or your character is useless".
Medical game play as a standalone game play is fine, but here it oozes into everything else and takes over the control from the player and gives it to someone else playing a separate game entirely.

Like, i'm decently fast at this, semi-something or other. Assuming my healing speed is about on par what you expect it to be. Maybe even less since i know where all the gubbins are and what's possible out of the department. Plus minus never actually doing it as a role other than to test with corpses so i would know where we are now overall. Occasional elective as robo.
It took me ten minutes to revive a dead guy from lavaland. Extra ten to that to recover the body cus ashstorms and shit, he was having fun so i didn't mind. Cool, we both were happy with him being able to walk. I started fixing his organ damage once he was up with cybers since fuck being crippled, right? That took extra five minutes and then he told me he will not sit still anymore no more and left, and died again to the first goliath when his liver went "i wanna vomit now" at like 25/100 damage. I toss him on the stasis and he "fuck this shit"'s on paddles and leaves server. At least he had cybernetic eyes instead of being blind? 15(+10 recovering) minutes of someone decently adept healing a man to 90% who just drops dead cus of not being 100%.
That's fucking unacceptable time sink in runtime of an hour Oranges keeps iterating for people to aim for.
Lizard was roleplaying being a lizard doing omega-autism politely before medical got involved. Enough that i wanted to support him doing his enjoyable shit as a traitor with target on him. He was having fun, i wanted him to keep having fun. Medical healing being what it is, stopped that fun on it's tracks.
This has been my repeating experience with the current healing ever since cloning was tossed.
I AM NOT ADVOCATING FOR RETURN OF CLONING. (making empty bodies with existing traumas to experiment with would be fun. Ask geneticist a I guess.)
Medical *is* better now, but healing those neat traumas is a horrifying detestable timesink to engage in as a patient and a doctor. I am in awe of how good the damage model is, and absolutely detest the method of dealing with it.

The system just makes people angry at it. It's just ratified shitsec now. "Sit still for ten minutes". People ahelp that experience.
Roleplay doesn't enter that system, it's you keeping a guy imprisoned in ER long after he's mobile to make him not keel over on first brute. Or you soloing the experience to make sure he doesn't keel over after applying paddles. Medical doesn't support the rest of it, it prevents you from engaging in it. Cloning was a shit system but at least it didn't cripple you to the point that going back to your "job" was impossible for extended periods.
If we want a better medical department, add more elective shit and downgrade the time and effort healing takes, don't force healing to take longer to pad out the experience in order to lock the other person out. Healing people in a game should not be as traumatic and timewastey experience it is at the moment I feel. Being damaged to that point is fine (look at all this damage haha), but taking forever to deal with it is still not fun nor engaging to the patient gamer who just wants to move on to playing the game they more or less signed up for.
Sure it's not realistic but neither is that solidified lump of JESUS FUCK WHAT IS THAT in engineering we make power with.
And the moment realism starts affecting my enjoyment of something is the moment i tell it to go behind chemical shed, shoot itself and then bill the parents for the bullet and barrel wear.

It forces you role playing a patient if anything and being patient is cancerous. You sit still, rot away and get depressed. Very big doubt on that being enjoyable even to masochists. And there's only that many things you can discuss until you just run out of shit to say.
And then the experience repeats itself next round. /disconnect

Also something something about staying on topic is fine but conversation moved to other things, open forum is supposed to spark discussion awoo.
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Re: Why do we run manual and bagil/sybil under one codebase/administration?

Postby Armhulen » Thu May 21, 2020 6:10 am #562342

Spoiler:
Reeeee wrote:
Cobby wrote:how that isn't mechanically-encouraged (enforced) roleplay though.

You try to force shit, it always fails. Quicktime events etc. It should enable, not force. Awoo.
Even ARMA's most dentheaded mods don't make you play surgeon/patient in place for ten minutes.
Well, about ten. Then you go back to pew pew bad guys that's the point of the experience.
We play for the silly shit, right, not for being chained to a stasis bed after fiddling with that silly stuff as a patient.
Yes?
Cobby wrote:Not finding particular roles or game mechanics enjoyable is not the same as the role and it's mechanics encouraging you to roleplay a particular way. In fact, I believe you agree with me considering your dislike is that it puts you into the role too much that you find it unenjoyable.

I don't like playing medical and being the ultimate reason people tap out of the game. It's not healing, it's pretty grieffy as it is, since it's too deep and time consuming compared to the rest of the game going SLIPPYGAS WEW LOOK AT THE TRAITOR GO SOI SOI WITH DESWORD on me.
I always set DNR. Being chained to some autistic "haha i don't know what the fuck i am doing" experiment upwards of ten minutes and more or less coming out of it with permanent or DoT afterwards isn't fun and never something i will willingly experience. That's why we got perks and whatnot.
Those are elective and that's fine. Poor aim has always been hilariously to me and phobias will never not be funny.

Medical systems have always been truncated to medkits and or regenerating health due to medical not meshing with any other game mechanic at all, it sinks time to itself for no benefit than to be time consuming busywork.
And here we got two players engaged in it, not one who has to manage limited resources to do it to survive the long run, but two with infinite resources, one whom just sits there and tries not to make it harder so they can move on and one who is just sinking time into doing what the game tells you must do so that they can move on. System of healing isn't flexible enough to be enjoyed, it's static and monolithic *must* as it is.
Again, not the damage model, it just the healing of it that meshes terribly with the rest of the SUPERMATTER SWORDS LOL. If this is the base system for damage and healing moves on from the time sink it is, then it's going to be amazing.

Being damaged isn't fun, and that's why literally every other game truncates medical to medkits, potions and at the deepest end of it, to "trauma kits" that heal your permanent traumas. Consumables and whatever. Consume and go. Move on to the game proper. Thinking about your rare resources for a five minutes is fine, taking ten minutes to do something with infinite resources it isn't all that engaging.
At the rogue-ish end of gaming like Darkest Dungeon traumas are game mechanics you deal with and move on with a button press at the Monastery etc instead of stopping for ten minutes to do a separate mini-game of "steps 1-3 for five minutes please or your character is useless".
Medical game play as a standalone game play is fine, but here it oozes into everything else and takes over the control from the player and gives it to someone else playing a separate game entirely.

Like, i'm decently fast at this, semi-something or other. Assuming my healing speed is about on par what you expect it to be. Maybe even less since i know where all the gubbins are and what's possible out of the department. Plus minus never actually doing it as a role other than to test with corpses so i would know where we are now overall. Occasional elective as robo.
It took me ten minutes to revive a dead guy from lavaland. Extra ten to that to recover the body cus ashstorms and shit, he was having fun so i didn't mind. Cool, we both were happy with him being able to walk. I started fixing his organ damage once he was up with cybers since fuck being crippled, right? That took extra five minutes and then he told me he will not sit still anymore no more and left, and died again to the first goliath when his liver went "i wanna vomit now" at like 25/100 damage. I toss him on the stasis and he "fuck this shit"'s on paddles and leaves server. At least he had cybernetic eyes instead of being blind? 15(+10 recovering) minutes of someone decently adept healing a man to 90% who just drops dead cus of not being 100%.
That's fucking unacceptable time sink in runtime of an hour Oranges keeps iterating for people to aim for.
Lizard was roleplaying being a lizard doing omega-autism politely before medical got involved. Enough that i wanted to support him doing his enjoyable shit as a traitor with target on him. He was having fun, i wanted him to keep having fun. Medical healing being what it is, stopped that fun on it's tracks.
This has been my repeating experience with the current healing ever since cloning was tossed.
I AM NOT ADVOCATING FOR RETURN OF CLONING. (making empty bodies with existing traumas to experiment with would be fun. Ask geneticist a I guess.)
Medical *is* better now, but healing those neat traumas is a horrifying detestable timesink to engage in as a patient and a doctor. I am in awe of how good the damage model is, and absolutely detest the method of dealing with it.

The system just makes people angry at it. It's just ratified shitsec now. "Sit still for ten minutes". People ahelp that experience.
Roleplay doesn't enter that system, it's you keeping a guy imprisoned in ER long after he's mobile to make him not keel over on first brute. Or you soloing the experience to make sure he doesn't keel over after applying paddles. Medical doesn't support the rest of it, it prevents you from engaging in it. Cloning was a shit system but at least it didn't cripple you to the point that going back to your "job" was impossible for extended periods.
If we want a better medical department, add more elective shit and downgrade the time and effort healing takes, don't force healing to take longer to pad out the experience in order to lock the other person out. Healing people in a game should not be as traumatic and timewastey experience it is at the moment I feel. Being damaged to that point is fine (look at all this damage haha), but taking forever to deal with it is still not fun nor engaging to the patient gamer who just wants to move on to playing the game they more or less signed up for.
Sure it's not realistic but neither is that solidified lump of JESUS FUCK WHAT IS THAT in engineering we make power with.
And the moment realism starts affecting my enjoyment of something is the moment i tell it to go behind chemical shed, shoot itself and then bill the parents for the bullet and barrel wear.

It forces you role playing a patient if anything and being patient is cancerous. You sit still, rot away and get depressed. Very big doubt on that being enjoyable even to masochists. And there's only that many things you can discuss until you just run out of shit to say.
And then the experience repeats itself next round. /disconnect

Also something something about staying on topic is fine but conversation moved to other things, open forum is supposed to spark discussion awoo.

^^^ you need to be way more concise with your thoughts or nobody is going to read this. It's a common problem on the forums. If it helps, try to stick to a paragraph and focus one main argument you're trying to convey.
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Re: Why do we run manual and bagil/sybil under one codebase/administration?

Postby Reeeee » Thu May 21, 2020 10:43 am #562359

Armhulen wrote:^^^ you need to be way more concise with your thoughts or nobody is going to read this. It's a common problem on the forums. If it helps, try to stick to a paragraph and focus one main argument you're trying to convey.

Verbose > Concise.
If they care, they read it, if they don't, that's neither here nor there, it's not going anywhere and there isn't a time limit. *flip
Unless i get my whole point in writing, it's just going to fester and i'd multipost. That post is what i thought at the time and i used time and effort to put it in writing. If you don't want to read it, then don't. Your attention span or desire to read it isn't ever going to be my problem. You can just skip it in that case.
I'm not arguing shit, i'm talking like it's a forum. You know, where discussion happens. You can reply to whole shit or just rip a part of it out if it interests you, like, you know, in a forum. Or you can go "i didn't understand any of that so i will now call you names"
I'm not trying to PROVE shit or be 100% correct or even be argumentative, i'm having a discussion by presenting my views on matter, any matter that interests me. So more discussion ensues so i can get better at my engrish. Usually what follows is everyone going "dear god you are shit". And that's fine too, people get free speech on internet.
Problem, if there is one, is you thinking it is one. More i write, more there is for people to reply to.

If i wanted to give shower thoughts, I'd use a blank no-followers twitter. Also yes, this is off-topic now.
SHOULD NOT HAVE DONE THAT.
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Re: Why do we run manual and bagil/sybil under one codebase/administration?

Postby actioninja » Thu May 21, 2020 3:11 pm #562381

Can you please make your bad posts shorter so I get less brain damage from reading them.
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Re: Why do we run manual and bagil/sybil under one codebase/administration?

Postby Reeeee » Thu May 21, 2020 8:34 pm #562392

actioninja wrote:Can you please make your bad posts shorter so I get less brain damage from reading them.

A, You don't actually read any of them em, B, All i'm going to do is press report if your five latest posts are targeted shitlery. C, *flip

Also i have no clue why you dislike me so much other than to look kinda dumb to me. Carry on.
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Re: Why do we run manual and bagil/sybil under one codebase/administration?

Postby oranges » Thu May 21, 2020 9:19 pm #562399

Reeeee wrote:Verbose > Concise.T.

lmao fwoosh 2 electric boogaloo


Also I have to disagree with this, good argumentation is being able to take the thread of your argument and deliver it expertly with minimal flourish, to maximise the amount of meaning conveyed.

If you have to surround your argument with excessive scaffolding it's just not a good argument and you should avoid making it, as most people are just going to think you airheaded and pretentious
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Re: Why do we run manual and bagil/sybil under one codebase/administration?

Postby Reeeee » Thu May 21, 2020 10:29 pm #562411

oranges wrote:most people are just going to think you airheaded and pretentious

Well, i am airheaded and i like being so. People assuming shit has never been my problem nor will i ever make it my problem.
I'm not trying to improve my SAT score or get good at proving myself right on the internet, that's for faggots and niggers.
I post to improve my egngrish, mostly. If you don't wanna read it, again, not my beeswax man.
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Re: Why do we run manual and bagil/sybil under one codebase/administration?

Postby Cobby » Fri May 22, 2020 3:07 am #562458

I'm arguing the game mechanically can drive you to specific options that would more closely resemble to how your character might would respond to the problem, which in that sense would be promoting roleplay.

I'm not arguing the good/bad aspects of medical, that is entirely irrelevant to the thread. Thank you for the feedback though.
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Re: Why do we run manual and bagil/sybil under one codebase/administration?

Postby Reeeee » Fri May 22, 2020 10:54 am #562494

Cobby wrote:I'm arguing the game mechanically can drive you to specific options that would more closely resemble to how your character might would respond to the problem, which in that sense would be promoting roleplay.

There is going too deep on that end and force your players to be NPCs when approaching any problem. You limit, by forcing your player to play how you like them to act.
Sure, tg and ss13 is a farcry form being *limiting* system, but that approach railroading at it's worst. If we go down that path, pretty soon jannies are going to add rules what you can and can't do as role x.
You are only limited by your ability to code this shit out and add multiple approaches, to support "both" branches of roleplay aspect since nobody is cray-cray enough to branch this shit off, i think. Fast and ugly for murderboner and longer more mechanical approach to person who likes to spend time and effort to get up to a 100% as a certified doctor who knows his shit.
I just exist in this vacuum of "shit works like they code it". System should be reactive, not proactive, where you spend time to game out responses before they happen cus you know there is only one way to solve problem x isn't really promoting roleplay but promoting metagaming. Adding on-the-spot solutions and makeshift temp fixes would be more promoting of roleplay that happens on the spot than "medical do x". Temporary health and whatnot.

Pulling your shirt off (or any cloth item) and making a tourniquet (see i spend five minutes looking up a word here, fuck off cops.), etc, on the spot to fix your shit temporarily would be more reactive approach than "go to medical to fix any and all medical maladies or suffer death". Much more emergent too. Disable arm to prevent any and all maladies from it affecting your toon for the rest of the times would make you roleplay having an hurt arm for example, not force you to respond to it in only one way to not die.(also removing the BLOODY SCREEN SO REAL, LOOK AT ALL THIS JELLO.) Fix bleeding by applying heat or electricity to affected part. Sec guy help intents his shot leg with a stun baton to suffer damage but nix the wound malady. Snap your arm back into place against a wall to get a massive mood penalty. Things like that would be more conducive to people playing situations out more organically and being reactive instead of GET RAILROADED SON OF A BITCH. Eventually and optimally handheld medscanners could have like an entire list of ad-hoc temp fixes for your shit, nah?

I want my roleplay to be emergent if i choose to engage in it in a setting this derpy, not forced "You must do x now". Guess the whole shit is in it's infancy when it comes to dealing with wounds but hey.
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Re: Why do we run manual and bagil/sybil under one codebase/administration?

Postby Cobby » Fri May 22, 2020 2:57 pm #562507

why do you not quote the entire post when the part you cut off would give you the awareness needed to in fact not continue posting medical feedback.

You clearly agree with me if you're arguing medical is doing it too much.
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Re: Why do we run manual and bagil/sybil under one codebase/administration?

Postby angelstarri » Fri May 22, 2020 2:59 pm #562509

imagine being cobby and taking libby snow's bait LOL
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Re: Why do we run manual and bagil/sybil under one codebase/administration?

Postby CPTANT » Fri May 22, 2020 4:09 pm #562515

Ugh, stop shitting up my thread, can we at least have SOME standards in policy discussion?
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Re: Why do we run manual and bagil/sybil under one codebase/administration?

Postby cacogen » Sat May 23, 2020 1:48 am #562552

i didn't read this but i like to post

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Re: Why do we run manual and bagil/sybil under one codebase/administration?

Postby Reeeee » Sat May 23, 2020 9:31 am #562585

Cobby wrote:why do you not quote the entire post when the part you cut off would give you the awareness needed to in fact not continue posting medical feedback.

You clearly agree with me if you're arguing medical is doing it too much.

It's highly related bonk. It's not feedback, so much as it's a opinion piece about "you don't need to split the codebase and admin to make it all work together nicely".

Medical is the hot potato and easy way to add substance to the discussion tho. I could just post "no" and never achieve my goal of getting better at engrification and never achieve any discussion about anything.
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Re: Why do we run manual and bagil/sybil under one codebase/administration?

Postby wesoda25 » Sat May 23, 2020 3:14 pm #562592

It’s amazing how you can use so many words and still say nothing
How Much Does Crushed Stone Delivery Cost?

Summary: Gravel Delivery Prices
Minus crushed rock costs $12-$35 per cubic yard while clean crushed rock costs $30-$50 per cubic yard. Delivery and spreading can double those prices. However, the more material you order, the less the total cost. Delivery is usually free of charge up to 10 miles.

Relevant: https://www.kompareit.com/homeandgarden ... stone1.png

Crushed rock is a type of gravel that has been mechanically broken down into small pieces and sorted by size. It is a highly versatile product, used for driveways, pathways, flower beds or as a base for concrete, pavers, asphalt, retaining walls, sheds or foundations.

Crushed rock is a very strong and durable material, and it offers great traction. It is available for delivery by the cubic yard, typically by landscaping supply companies that also sell products such as mulch, sand and soil.

About Crushed Rock Delivery
There are two basic types of crushed rocks: minus and clean. Both are available in a variety of sizes and colors, but they are used differently.

  1. Any crushed rock with the word minus in the description (3/4-inch minus, for example) will also contain smaller pieces of rock, dirt and/or sand. This type packs down tightly, making it ideal for established driveways without drainage problems, as well as a base material for porches, patios, walkways, driveways and the like.
  2. Clean crushed rock does not have the smaller pieces of rock, dirt and/or sand. If it is advertised as 1/4 inch, all pieces are that size. Because clean crushed rock does not pack down tightly, it is not ideal as a base. But it is great for new driveways or those with drainage problems. It also works well for decorative pathways, walkways, plant beds and flower beds.

If you’re unsure of which type to buy, ask a professional, particularly if you have problems such as excessive erosion, improper drainage or muddy conditions.

Crushed rock is typically sold by the cubic yard (27 square feet). Before you place an order, you’ll have to url=https://www.calculatorsoup.com/calculators/construction/square-footage-calculator.php]determine the square footage of the area you need to covero/url] and how deep you want the rock to be. As a guideline, one cubic yard covers about 324 square feet, one inch deep. Similarly, it covers 162 square feet, 2 inches deep.

pPea Gravel Cost
Expect to pay between around $35 per cubic yard or $40 to $45 per ton for pea gravel delivery. The price will decrease significantly for large quantities of pea gravel. If you are looking for a color other than gray, the cost will increase.

Pea gravel is a small hard stone that is about the size of a pea. The most common size is 3/8 inch. It is smooth and generally round with no sharp edges. It is frequently used in home gardening and decorative landscaping projects such as accenting flower beds and gardens.

Cost of Crushed Rock Delivery
The price of crushed rock depends on the type and size you select, and the amount. It is also heavily influenced by your geographic location. Prices in big cities are easily double what they are in many rural areas.

  1. Minus crushed rock is less expensive, ranging from about $12-$35 per cubic yard, not including delivery or spreading.
  2. Clean crushed rock usually ranges in price from $30-$50 per cubic yard, also not including delivery or spreading.

Delivery and spreading charges vary, too, but in many cases they will double the price. The more you order, however, the less per cubic yard delivery charges will be.

Source: https://www.kompareit.com/homeandgarden ... costs.html

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Re: Why do we run manual and bagil/sybil under one codebase/administration?

Postby Denton » Sat May 23, 2020 3:36 pm #562593

CPTANT wrote:Ugh, stop shitting up my thread, can we at least have SOME standards in policy discussion?

You haven't replied to a single of these posts, are you actually interested in having a discussion?
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