Greytide as a result of mapchange/extended.

[christ110]

Bottom post of the previous page:

Ever since we have made the extended round telegraphed and the introduction of new maps which is not the box-standard, we have suffered a drastic increase in "minor ic crime" aka greytide.
This would be ok, if minor ic crime wasn't something typically wasn't used to escalate conflict to lethal levels, or was something that is too strong for our average shitcurity to handle.
The fact that we have extended as a round type proves that RP still has a place on our station, and we aren't just about minmaxing different depts for the eventual validhunt that comes around eventually. Greytide however goes against RP, and is people being shit for nothing but an ooc reason.
Can our admin team please start being a little more heavy-handed against this very poor behavior
>Inb4 low/norp server.
Ss13 is a role playing game, and although we are very loose with our definition of rp, that doesn't mean that we should just abandon it entirely.

[Grazyn]

Greytiders are valid under "defend your department" policy.

Just kill them

A Chaplain smashed the glass sliding door above the tables, invaded Hydro and we had a fight which I heroically won. I dragged him into the emergency storage across from hydroponics, so someone else could find and clone his dumb self.

I got bwoinked by a slightly inebriated IcePacks who yelled at me for critting the minor IC crime guy who CLEARLY dindu nuffin.

So try again D&B

That's not committing minor IC crimes. committing minor IC crimes is smashing glass and glass doors repeatedly and consistently.

What the fuck is all this about metagrudging, metagrudging is already against the rules.

When I minor IC crime I'm pretty much looking to be killed or removed from the round.

I said minor IC crime not greytide

you're getting meme'd by the word filter

[imblyings]

the key to being a good minor ic crimer is to SUBMIT TO SEC WHEN YOU ARE CAUGHT

make it fun for them too they are people

this, please conscientiously grief

[Slignerd]

/tg/station is going to have to learn to live with minor IC crime.

[Nilons]

/tg/station is going to have to learn to live with minor IC crime.

tellin it how it is

[Lumbermancer]

Gulag was created specifically for cases like this.

[Screemonster]

the key to being a good minor ic crimer is to SUBMIT TO SEC WHEN YOU ARE CAUGHT

make it fun for them too they are people

this, please conscientiously grief

tl;dr is have fun in a way that's fun for other people too

[TrustyGun]

It's terrible when you are in a position of power in a map no one likes (I have never been in a situation when it's extended and massive grief happens). There's no feasible way to keep the massive fucking graytide down short of just going on a massacre (pretending that it is feasible to contain over 10 shitlers as security is simply silly) that's not security or a head of staff, which is obviously no bueno and will get you bwoinked or banned. Extra points if you are the captain, or the only security on the station.

I like it when people do minor IC crime, but breaking into security and/or the bridge and mobbing other players in positions of power crosses the line from minor IC crime to just straight out ruining the round for several players because you hate the map.

[J_Madison]

Map bans?
I.e you don't even get a choice to play, you get forced onto spectate.

[Jacough]

Just kill them

A Chaplain smashed the glass sliding door above the tables, invaded Hydro and we had a fight which I heroically won. I dragged him into the emergency storage across from hydroponics, so someone else could find and clone his dumb self.

I got bwoinked by a slightly inebriated IcePacks who yelled at me for critting the minor IC crime guy who CLEARLY dindu nuffin.

So try again D&B

Well yeah, that's Shitpacks though. Grey tiding is basically what he does so it only makes sense for him to defend shit heads who do it.

[J_Madison]

Just kill them

A Chaplain smashed the glass sliding door above the tables, invaded Hydro and we had a fight which I heroically won. I dragged him into the emergency storage across from hydroponics, so someone else could find and clone his dumb self.

I got bwoinked by a slightly inebriated IcePacks who yelled at me for critting the minor IC crime guy who CLEARLY dindu nuffin.

So try again D&B

Well yeah, that's Shitpacks though. Grey tiding is basically what he does so it only makes sense for him to defend shit heads who do it.

I don't even take him seriously when he bwoinks. I immediately ask for another admin to handle the case instead.

[Pascal125]

It's terrible when you are in a position of power in a map no one likes (I have never been in a situation when it's extended and massive grief happens). There's no feasible way to keep the massive fucking graytide down short of just going on a massacre (pretending that it is feasible to contain over 10 shitlers as security is simply silly) that's not security or a head of staff, which is obviously no bueno and will get you bwoinked or banned. Extra points if you are the captain, or the only security on the station.

I like it when people do minor IC crime, but breaking into security and/or the bridge and mobbing other players in positions of power crosses the line from minor IC crime to just straight out ruining the round for several players because you hate the map.

This sort of thing happens to happen to me consistently and it's really grating my nerves. You're gearing up. And next thing you know they're all raiding the bridge kidnapping/beating the heads of staff and "Rioting" during Extended or Traitor.
Calling them "Comdoms" and trying to call more crewmembers to the bridge ending with a massive shitfest of harassment in OOC afterwards for defending themselves lethally from what could be a tide of hostile revolutionaries who are actively attacking them; for all they know. Crewmembers who happen to have just really been. Greytiders. Woe is me, those poor abused assistants. And fuck those shitters for stopping our "Minor IC Crime".

How are we expected to ahelp a portion of the server actively attacking Command Staff near shift start as it is happening, either due to the map or due to "memes". And killing them only makes the problem worse. It'd literally be much easier to just watch the brig/bridge. There are limits to these things, lines. And people often pass and overstep it. We shouldn't be defending that and defining it as a form of "culture" that creates "fun".

[Slignerd]

Part of the game. Intended conflict. Buzzwords for "doing things you don't like". In fact, we'll just filter your opinions to call it a nothing but a minor IC issue involving imperfect people. That's the current admin ruling regarding greytiders, and I'm not sure if this thread is going to change this sentiment.

[Qbopper]

In fact, we'll just filter your opinions to call it a nothing but a minor IC issue involving imperfect people.

to be fair the words on the filter are so hilariously overused and meaningless at this point

it's like calling something a "meme" - that could mean so fucking much and it's just used instead of actually discussing something, same as the words on the filter, they're 100% buzzwords

you can agree that there's a problem and still think it's irritating when people boil a complex issue down to a single word

[Jacough]

If we're gonna condone people constantly spending round after round just breaking stuff, starting shit, and trying to be dicks in general because "They're not griefing, they just have a different playstyle!" why don't we just go ahead and get rid of all our rules about escalation and murder and let the game turn into Day Z in space where it's basically a free for all where people kill/mug/loot other players and departments just because they have stuff that they want or just because they can?

I'm actually half serious when I say that'd be better than what we've got right now because quite frankly, it'd be a lot more fair than shit like this
https://tgstation13.org/phpBB/viewtopic ... 47#p285648
and

A Chaplain smashed the glass sliding door above the tables, invaded Hydro and we had a fight which I heroically won. I dragged him into the emergency storage across from hydroponics, so someone else could find and clone his dumb self.

I got bwoinked by a slightly inebriated IcePacks who yelled at me for critting the minor IC crime guy who CLEARLY dindu nuffin.

So try again D&B

I don't know about you pretty bullshit that an assistant can bum rush the brig from the very start of the round with the clear intention of starting shit but god forbid you beat the shit out of him for doing so. Pretty bullshit too that it's apparently perfectly alright for someone to break into your department but how dare you have the nerve to kick his fucking face in for doing so. If you're going to give dickheads the thumbs up to go ahead and cause as much trouble as possible because "it's just muh different playstyle" then I think it's only fair for them to have to deal with it when they end up getting killed and tossed in space, gibbed, or incinerated for being a cunt.

[Pascal125]

>Shift starts.
>Assistants start breaking into Medbay, apparently attacking staff.
>Medbay calls for help.
>Get there, everythings smashed and the Assistants scatter except for one.
>Medbay points me to him so i grab him, drop him off at the brig.
>He calls me shit and tells everyone to jump me for arresting him.
>As i'm wandering outside the Hallways, i notice everything everywhere is smashed and there's Glass everywhere. The Assistants are rampant.
>Wizard shows up.
>Remember this thread, ahelp it.
>Marked as IC issue.
>New shift.
>Same situation. Same people.

Killing. Ahelping. What's the next step, here?

[Haevacht]

Ahelp again.

[D&B]

Keep killing until they ban you and set precedent with the appeal.

[Haevacht]

Keep killing until they ban you and set precedent with the appeal.

dont listen to the guy with a shitsorm of a ban appeal a week

[D&B]

Keep killing until they ban you and set precedent with the appeal.

dont listen to the guy with a shitsorm of a ban appeal a week

*Successful appeals a week

[Haevacht]

Keep killing until they ban you and set precedent with the appeal.

dont listen to the guy with a shitsorm of a ban appeal a week

*Successful appeals a week

You still have to explain that you were a hair's width on the right side of the line once a week.

PM an admin on the forums, that's an option.

[D&B]

It shows how weak our rules are regarding this.

We keep getting waved off as a "it's fine ic issue," but then it's no longer an ic issue, then people get banned and or shit on for responding to other shitters with equal force.

I gladly eat the ban because it shows the context and what led to it and it shows whomever wants ways to deal with the current ic conflicts how easy it is to disprove the blatant banbait that happens every time you crush someone that wants to act like shit.

If the current triumvirate doesn't want to deal with it, then it's up to the players. If we keep getting waved off as "ic issues teehee," then they have the duty of responding where the lines actually are so people don't cross it, or worse, toe it.

[Pascal125]

I mean. I'm not gonna lie. Now i'm just collecting every shard from every thing they break and piling them in the corner of a room, taking each Assistant commiting "Minor IC Crime", take their shoes off, and throw them onto it as a form of punishment. It's funny when they instantly die because they've griefed that much.
They complain, ofcourse.

But i had fun. And that's all that matters.

[BeeSting12]

Pascal, you've given me a much more satisfying way to kill fireaxe window breakers. Thanks

[Pascal125]

So we started enforcing our right to handle Minor IC Crime ICly, draw the line, and learn to live with it by killing everyone involved and becoming literal gestapo as a response when it got bad one shift. It was amazing.
Many assistants died and were promptly put on display for their transgressions. Lots of Deadchat and OOC Salt ensued. However, from my perspective. It was the closest we ever got in months to any semblance of a peaceful shift.

The general consensus from OOC was that they don't believe that termiting the brig, assaulting officers, breaking windows, trying to free prisoners, being a hindrance to security, and trying to steal weapons; often in conjunction.
Should not be grounds for execution and potential permanent round removal. The response should be brigging or gulagging. I'd imagine all that's left is for admins to amend the policy before it becomes a problem on both sides resulting in some heavy metagrudge against security by greytiders or heart attacks from stress related to screaming about "shitsecurity" having fun at their expense in the way Minor IC Conflict should and is apparently intended to go.

Just remember, as long as it's fun for some people. It's apparently okay.

[Nilons]

So we started enforcing our right to handle Minor IC Crime ICly, draw the line, and learn to live with it by killing everyone involved and becoming literal gestapo as a response when it got bad one shift. It was amazing.
Many assistants died and were promptly put on display for their transgressions. Lots of Deadchat and OOC Salt ensued. However, from my perspective. It was the closest we ever got in months to any semblance of a peaceful shift.

The general consensus from OOC was that they don't believe that termiting the brig, assaulting officers, breaking windows, trying to free prisoners, being a hindrance to security, and trying to steal weapons; often in conjunction.
Should not be grounds for execution and potential permanent round removal. The response should be brigging or gulagging. I'd imagine all that's left is for admins to amend the policy before it becomes a problem on both sides resulting in some heavy metagrudge against security by greytiders or heart attacks from stress related to screaming about "shitsecurity" having fun at their expense in the way Minor IC Conflict should and is apparently intended to go.

Just remember, as long as it's fun for some people. It's apparently okay.

The salt of people in ooc was unbelievable. "I cant believe I got killed for stealing people in an arrest I shouldve gotten a warning!" after sec kills 3 people for doing the exact same type of shit.

[Qbopper]

So we started enforcing our right to handle Minor IC Crime ICly, draw the line, and learn to live with it by killing everyone involved and becoming literal gestapo as a response when it got bad one shift. It was amazing.
Many assistants died and were promptly put on display for their transgressions. Lots of Deadchat and OOC Salt ensued. However, from my perspective. It was the closest we ever got in months to any semblance of a peaceful shift.

The general consensus from OOC was that they don't believe that termiting the brig, assaulting officers, breaking windows, trying to free prisoners, being a hindrance to security, and trying to steal weapons; often in conjunction.
Should not be grounds for execution and potential permanent round removal. The response should be brigging or gulagging. I'd imagine all that's left is for admins to amend the policy before it becomes a problem on both sides resulting in some heavy metagrudge against security by greytiders or heart attacks from stress related to screaming about "shitsecurity" having fun at their expense in the way Minor IC Conflict should and is apparently intended to go.

Just remember, as long as it's fun for some people. It's apparently okay.

I'm not sure I understand - did you start doing this recently, or did this happen one round, or what?

[ohnopigeons]

snip

Yes, that's when you tell ooc to fuck off and ignore them.
Also fuck off with this metagrudge noise it's complete garbage stop bringing it up.

[Pascal125]

I'm not sure I understand - did you start doing this recently, or did this happen one round, or what?

Murdering the "shitters" is now my go to reaction. And people seem to be following suit. Given that this thread in general is pointing to nothing but "Kill them if they do it." and "Learn to live with it.". Such statements do not appear to be being refuted by the Administration or their actions as false, either. Given that it's often met with "IC Issue" responses when a-helped.

Given the statements here it appears that the purpose of "Minor IC Crime" is to give Security something to do and something to kill and that nobody would fault nor complain if it occurred. Yet it doesn't happen that way. They annoy people, get what they deserve as a result, then make a fuss, harass, and grudge over it; if they don't escalate to the point of attacking and killing security/command staff trying to non-harmfully detain or prevent them. It's about as much double standards as back when that "ERP Fucksquad" from Sybil was hanging about.

Also fuck off with this metagrudge noise it's complete garbage stop bringing it up.

I know you think the truth is "Garbage". And, quite frankly it is. It's quite proven at this point, judging by statements and actions from players in response to actually getting stomped for "Minor IC Crime".

I would pull up screenshots and logs, much like i would've with everything else i've said. But they can have their privacy. You could choose to be ignorant, or believe it. Matters little to me. What matters is that it's always been an issue and rule violation. And from my personal experience, it's rising as a result of this policy and devil-may-care attitude regarding it. We need Saegrimr back.

Don't pretend to know anything when you're never there. Thanks.

[bandit]

Murdering the "imperfect people playing an imperfect game" is now my go to reaction. And people seem to be following suit. Given that this thread in general is pointing to nothing but "Kill them if they do it." and "Learn to live with it.". Such statements do not appear to be being refuted by the Administration or their actions as false, either. Given that it's often met with "IC Issue" responses when a-helped.

Uh no we're fucking telling you to

A) adminhelp providing names, details, and THE ROUND NUMBER PLEASE FUCK THE CODERS
B) understand that 75% of the adminhelps we get are either situations that were instigated/escalated, or situations that arised from legit misinformation on one side, and that genuine griff is actually fairly rare, and punished quickly

[ShadowDimentio]

People who chimp out whenever it's not box or meta are the lowest of subhumans and should be thrown out the nearest airlock.

[Qbopper]

Murdering the "imperfect people playing an imperfect game" is now my go to reaction. And people seem to be following suit. Given that this thread in general is pointing to nothing but "Kill them if they do it." and "Learn to live with it.". Such statements do not appear to be being refuted by the Administration or their actions as false, either. Given that it's often met with "IC Issue" responses when a-helped.

Uh no we're fucking telling you to

A) adminhelp providing names, details, and THE ROUND NUMBER PLEASE FUCK THE CODERS
B) understand that 75% of the adminhelps we get are either situations that were instigated/escalated, or situations that arised from legit misinformation on one side, and that genuine griff is actually fairly rare, and punished quickly

yeah there's not many admins that will say "killing people for minor crimes is good"

People who chimp out whenever it's not box or meta are the lowest of subhumans and should be thrown out the nearest airlock.

this has to be the first time I've ever agreed with a shadowd post

[Pascal125]

yeah there's not many admins that will say "killing people for minor crimes is good"

Define "Minor Crime", because what the playerbase defines "Minor Crime" as often goes above and beyond any "Minor" Crime i can personally think of, As i'd explained in a couple posts.
And i'd certainly hope they don't think that attacking/killing people for responding to your "Minor IC Crime" is any better.

It tends to revolve around attacking security/command. Breaking everything in sight. Breaking into high-security area's. Raiding a department. Welderbombing/Firebombing the HoPLine. Trying to get the AI/Borgs to kill/fuck with security for arresting you. Encouraging everyone to attack security. Helping their friends avoid capture by security. Attempting to disrupt lawful arrests by security. The list goes on, really. Either because they want to have "Fun" or they hate the "Map" or they're "Bored" and lack the creativity to find something to do that doesn't involve trying to dick people over. Either way, they all seemed to be in accord that the punishment, being death. For this, as otherwise it will be a continuing issue of repeat offending, is perfectly reasonable.

Yet they then proceed to bitch in Deadchat/OOC about how they were killed for it. Try to make the other come off as a shitter while they're perfectly innocent. And again, sometimes carry the behavior on to future shifts, sometimes specifically targetting specific individuals. Just to spite said individuals. Yes, we are told to ignore them. But how exactly does one ignore it when or if it becomes an IC Issue stemming from an OOC Issue.

[Not-Dorsidarf]

Minor Crime: "Pushing someone over", "snatching an ID off the desk and refusing to give it back unless they admit they're a loser on the radio", "stealing gloves" "breaking a window because you're angry at the botanist for not making enough weed for you"

Not Minor Crime You Shitfucks: attacking security/command. Breaking everything in sight. Breaking into high-security area's. Raiding a department. Welderbombing/Firebombing the HoPLine. Trying to get the AI/Borgs to kill/fuck with security for arresting you. Encouraging everyone to attack security. Helping their friends avoid capture by security. Attempting to disrupt lawful arrests by security.

Good security response: Throw everyone who commits a Not Minor Crime You Fuck in the gulag with a setence based on how shit they were being, give everyone who commits a minor crime a timed sentence, capital crimes go to perma or """transfer""
Bad sec response: THE REICH SHALL RISE AGAIN
worst sec response: nothing.

[Lazengann]

Minor Crime: "snatching an ID off the desk and refusing to give it back unless they admit they're a loser on the radio"

I'd kill em provided I'm not sec

[Qbopper]

Minor Crime: "snatching an ID off the desk and refusing to give it back unless they admit they're a loser on the radio"

I'd kill em provided I'm not sec

okay but when you get treated like you did a Not Minor Crime You Shitfucks don't complain

[ShadowDimentio]

People who chimp out whenever it's not box or meta are the lowest of subhumans and should be thrown out the nearest airlock.

this has to be the first time I've ever agreed with a shadowd post

You'd be surprised how often I'm right

Answer: Frequently

[DemonFiren]

People who chimp out whenever it's not box or meta are the lowest of subhumans and should be thrown out the nearest airlock.

this has to be the first time I've ever agreed with a shadowd post

You'd be surprised how often I'm right

Answer: Frequently

Any number greater than 0 is outright shocking, given it's you we're talking about.

[Reece]

I just fuck up their round, if I'm an engineer and get a hold of them I strip them, deradio them and then cable tie them to a chair before walling them in somewhere out of the way; they aint dead.

Most of this 'minor IC crime is anything but and generally has round affected consequences for the player on the victim end of it; otherwise it wouldn't be crime.

[Armhulen]

I just fuck up their round, if I'm an engineer and get a hold of them I strip them, deradio them and then cable tie them to a chair before walling them in somewhere out of the way; they aint dead.

Most of this 'minor IC crime is anything but and generally has round affected consequences for the player on the victim end of it; otherwise it wouldn't be crime.

You took them out of the round, perma, execution, morphine overdoses, all take people out of the round.

Still, I will not stop you from doing whatever you can to murder mapchange tiders.

[oranges]

People who chimp out whenever it's not box or meta are the lowest of subhumans and should be thrown out the nearest airlock.

this has to be the first time I've ever agreed with a shadowd post

You'd be surprised how often I'm right

Answer: infrequently enough to be suprising when it happens

[WarbossLincoln]

the key to being a good minor ic crimer is to SUBMIT TO SEC WHEN YOU ARE CAUGHT

make it fun for them too they are people

This. I do stupid shit as an assistant a lot. Break some things, steal shit, trespass. Very rarely will someone valid me over it because I try to stay on the right side of the line between annoying and genuine pain in the ass. They'll usually just kick my ass and throw me out. I'll slip the cops when they come after me but when the do finally catch me I don't use it as an excuse to get 'muh escalation'.

I can honestly say that 90+% of the time I deserve the sentence handed down by sec. There are few times where I've felt sec was actually shitty enough to me to warrant escalation.

I play sec a lot too, and the only people that make the role suck are the ones who insist on escalating shit after they've been caught. Like when you get arrested for doing something stupid and get a 5 min sentence, then you decide the best course of action is to disarm spam the officer as soon as the cuffs come off. I had someone a few weeks ago who insisted on escalating some minor stupid shit all the way to murder over the course of an entire round. Now, it could have been fun, but his attitude ruined it for him. After him getting let go like 6 times for fucking with me he decides to come at me with a baton, cause 'escalation'. I killed him for that and he cried and bitched about shitcurity in deadchat the rest of the round, and then for about 10 minutes of the next round in OOC. Just autistic screeching about how he was going to metagrudge me as antag and shit. I was hilarious. I started taking a shot every time he acted like a baby.

[Armhulen]

I will bwoink the fuck out of people who ghost when they get caught holy shit

[Screemonster]

So we started enforcing our right to handle Minor IC Crime ICly, draw the line, and learn to live with it by killing everyone involved and becoming literal gestapo as a response when it got bad one shift. It was amazing.
Many assistants died and were promptly put on display for their transgressions. Lots of Deadchat and OOC Salt ensued. However, from my perspective. It was the closest we ever got in months to any semblance of a peaceful shift.

The general consensus from OOC was that they don't believe that termiting the brig, assaulting officers, breaking windows, trying to free prisoners, being a hindrance to security, and trying to steal weapons; often in conjunction.
Should not be grounds for execution and potential permanent round removal. The response should be brigging or gulagging. I'd imagine all that's left is for admins to amend the policy before it becomes a problem on both sides resulting in some heavy metagrudge against security by greytiders or heart attacks from stress related to screaming about "shitsecurity" having fun at their expense in the way Minor IC Conflict should and is apparently intended to go.

Just remember, as long as it's fun for some people. It's apparently okay.

The salt of people in ooc was unbelievable. "I cant believe I got killed for stealing people in an arrest I shouldve gotten a warning!" after sec kills 3 people for doing the exact same type of shit.

People who fuck with other players to get a reaction then complain about the reaction they get can go fuck themselves frankly

"reeeeee what I did wasn't bad enough to be removed from the round it only warranted a five minute timeout before I could start being an assshole again"
These are the people who argue chapter and verse in ban appeals about technicalities and the letter of the rules rather than just not being a cunt
there's no constitutional fucking right to be a cunt and force people to put up with you

[InsaneHyena]

Jesus Christ, I've thought people exaggerate here, but it turns out - no, actually, people attack security with fireaxes when it's extended. It's like a rev, but worse, because you can't even trust the implanted ones.

[Dr_bee]

Jesus Christ, I've thought people exaggerate here, but it turns out - no, actually, people attack security with fireaxes when it's extended. It's like a rev, but worse, because you can't even trust the implanted ones.

It used to be doing shit like that would net you hard bans. Frankly if you cant find something to entertain yourself with for one fucking extended round without having to fuck over people then you need to go away.

I mean we have two servers for a reason. If you dont want to play extended hop to the other server and leave the other people alone. The excuse "I hate extended/map" is shit when you have that choice.

[Owegno]

Jesus Christ, I've thought people exaggerate here, but it turns out - no, actually, people attack security with fireaxes when it's extended. It's like a rev, but worse, because you can't even trust the implanted ones.

You ahelped it right?

[Qbopper]

Jesus Christ, I've thought people exaggerate here, but it turns out - no, actually, people attack security with fireaxes when it's extended. It's like a rev, but worse, because you can't even trust the implanted ones.

It used to be doing shit like that would net you hard bans.

people also used to ahelp a lot more, from what I understand

[TheColdTurtle]

How about before the round is started, there is something that says "this round is extended so leave if you don't want to play" or something like that

[Pascal125]

I'm fairly certain A-helps went out in this situation as i was present during the OOC Salt that occured post-extended. Which even involved IC in OOC beforehand.
Funny thing was. Most if it was calling Security shit and to never play Security again.