Player Interaction with an Armed Nuke

[LordZalgo]

Howdy.

There was a round wherein crew were attempting to space a nuke. A Trialmin has stated repeatedly in OOC chat that this is against server policy, continued to disregard debate suggesting otherwise, and disabled chat to state one final time that they were correct and that the policy stands: the nuke cannot be spaced by the crew under any circumstances. However, there is no mention of this policy at all in the official rules; none of them even suggest that this may be an implied policy. The word 'nuke' appears twice in the rules: once under Silicon Policy in a table describing the human status of antagonists (referring to Nuke Ops themselves), and once in Precident 5 of Rule 2. "Station crew are currently not allowed to board or search for the syndicate shuttle during nuke op rounds, unless they specifically follow an operative or a pinpointer onto the shuttle. It is better to adminhelp first in this situation, so admins can confirm that you found it legitimately."

While this rule was discussed, it is not the policy I am calling into question today; I believe it is fine as-is. However, this only further reinforces the point that there is no listed rule that describes nuke disposal methods which would be against server policy. It does not state anywhere in any terms that a nuclear device cannot be spaced. I am not trying to rules lawyer here, because I mostly play passive roles that do not generally fuck with antagonists, especially nuke ops. Rather, it's probably for the best to get clarification on this ruling for the future. If spacing a nuke is indeed against server policy as decided by administration, then an addendum ought to be made since a precedent exists, so that policy is clearly reflected in the official rules. If spacing a nuke is not against server policy as decided by administration, then it should be made clear to the rest of administration that it is not something which requires enforcement. Send out a memo or something, I dunno.

TL;DR - Nukes: Can they be spaced by the crew or not? Please clarify this.

[PKPenguin321]

Spacing the nuke is okay IF you take if from the ops while they are in the process of taking it onto the station. Sneaking into the ops ship after flying around to check all the meta locations where the ship can land and stealing the nuke off of it and spacing it is not okay.

[D&B]

Armed? If it's not wrenched then yeah.

Non armed and sitting in the ops shuttle that you meta'd the location of? Eat the ban and shut the fuck up.

[LordZalgo]

Spacing the nuke is okay IF you take if from the ops while they are in the process of taking it onto the station. Sneaking into the ops ship after flying around to check all the meta locations where the ship can land and stealing the nuke off of it and spacing it is not okay.

Armed? If it's not wrenched then yeah.

Non armed and sitting in the ops shuttle that you meta'd the location of? Eat the ban and shut the fuck up.

I'd already assumed that taking it from their shuttle without seeing Ops heading to it would be against policy, since that precident forbids meta-ing dat shuttle. I was just wondering in the case of a nuke that was already on-station.

[Steelpoint]

I was a Operative during that round.

While I was not omniscient of the round events, however when we secured the Nuke Disk and returned to the Syndi Ship, we found someone had bombed it to hell and back and spaced the nuke. I should stress this occurred while we were on the station, we left the nuke inside the ship as is standard.

We eventually had to re-board the station and spend another twenty minutes fluffing about, at first we contacted syndicate command via a emagged comms console, then we tried detonating the station nuke, then we finally tried the comms console again. I think a admin spawned the nuke back on the station as we got the nuke and armed it.

All of this while the vast majority of the crew and server were dead, comms was out, power was out and atmo was leaking.

Icing on the cake, when we got back to our ship, someone bombed it even further to the point it barely exsisted and the launch console was MIA.

Whoever spaced the nuke not only fucked over the Ops for a bit, but they extended the round by around twenty minutes. The round should've ended there and then.

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I honestly think we should buff syndi turrets. Give them more health and make their bullets hit targets instantly. If you have a jetpack you are immune to being hit by syndi turrets.

[onleavedontatme]

Yes, you can space the nuke. You can even steal it from the ship if you find it legitimately (following an op back there). IcePacks was mistaken.

[LordZalgo]

I was a Operative during that round.

While I was not omniscient of the round events, however when we secured the Nuke Disk and returned to the Syndi Ship, we found someone had bombed it to hell and back and spaced the nuke. I should stress this occurred while we were on the station, we left the nuke inside the ship as is standard.

We eventually had to re-board the station and spend another twenty minutes fluffing about, at first we contacted syndicate command via a emagged comms console, then we tried detonating the station nuke, then we finally tried the comms console again. I think a admin spawned the nuke back on the station as we got the nuke and armed it.

All of this while the vast majority of the crew and server were dead, comms was out, power was out and atmo was leaking.

Icing on the cake, when we got back to our ship, someone bombed it even further to the point it barely exsisted and the launch console was MIA.

Whoever spaced the nuke not only fucked over the Ops for a bit, but they extended the round by around twenty minutes. The round should've ended there and then.

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I honestly think we should buff syndi turrets. Give them more health and make their bullets hit targets instantly. If you have a jetpack you are immune to being hit by syndi turrets.

Ahh, I see. I suppose I didn't have the full story. I had assumed the presiding Trialmin was saying you couldn't get rid of a nuke that was already on the station. That was the impression I was getting from it, anyway. No wonder so many folks were acting hostile.

[Steelpoint]

Yeah, the nuke never left the Syndi ship until it was spawned onto the station after it was spaced.

The nuke was spaced by someone who found it by chance or guessed where it was based on where the Ops attacked, they did not follow the pinpointer or anyone back to the ship since when we actually returned to the ship it was boarded and blown up.

I recall we made the rules around the Ops ship less severe since we added turrets, but those turrets are hot garbage and are more a aesthetic.

[Nilons]

It's not spacing the nuke that's a no-no, it's boarding the nuke ops shuttle. People seem to confuse these two because one is normally followed by the other.

[BeeSting12]

What about taking a maxcap up to the nuke while it's armed and blowing it, instantly deleting the nuke with no consequences to the crew?

[imblyings]

We've had people boh singulo an armed nuke with no repercussions.

[BeeSting12]

We've had people boh singulo an armed nuke with no repercussions.

Do you think this is okay? Seems pretty extreme to do that just to cuck an antag out of greentext when they've already won.

[Steelpoint]

Shit happens, people somehow destroying the nuke before it detonates is fine with me since the nuke is all but indestructible, if anything using a singulo requires you to sacrifice yourself, makes for a good story.

I think the main issue here is simply just spacing the nuke when you found it in the Ops ship that you found through meta knowledge.

[ShadowDimentio]

I've always kinda hated the op shuttle because it's always been a hugely gray area, like what if all the ops come from the exact same direction? Are we allowed to figure "hey these chucklefucks must have come from somewhere!" and then try to find their ship?

I just don't even mess with the op ship or search for it or anything man, not worth the headache.

But yeah destroying the nuke is fine, someone fucked up regardless if the crew even have time to find it and destroy it.

[onleavedontatme]

We've had people boh singulo an armed nuke with no repercussions.

Do you think this is okay? Seems pretty extreme to do that just to cuck an antag out of greentext when they've already won.

It makes sense both from an IC and OOC standpoint. You are causing a large amount of damage to avert an even more catastrophic event.

[imblyings]

We've had people boh singulo an armed nuke with no repercussions.

Do you think this is okay? Seems pretty extreme to do that just to cuck an antag out of greentext when they've already won.

I think it's cool for players to be able to resort to truly last ditch measures in do or die scenarios. We trust players to have the freedom to create those really neat and memorable moments when deadchat also goes wild, especially so if it's something as challenging as making bohs, finding the nuke, and then surviving the ops in order to pull it off.

In any case, nuke ops are always welcome to leave a few ops behind to defend the nuke.

[oranges]

We've had people boh singulo an armed nuke with no repercussions.

Do you think this is okay? Seems pretty extreme to do that just to cuck an antag out of greentext when they've already won.

What the fuck is this bullshit? You win when the nuke goes off, not when it's armed you bitch, don't like it? guard the nuke until the countdown timer is close then evac.

[DemonFiren]

wtf i totally like oranges now

[PKPenguin321]

Violently disarming the nuke is cool

[Deitus]

opinion from the person that nobody cares about having an opinion:

op shuttles should be nuke op only. no crew members or borgs allowed in, period. the only time the crew should be able to interact with the nuke is when the op/s have taken it out of the shuttle and/or when its planted on the station. the whole thing with "but i just HAPPENED to find the shuttle!" is pretty stupid, anyone can grab a jetpack and fly around the station when its ops and eventually find it, and even if they DID actually happen to find it the cases where its powergame vs actual accidents are vastly weighted towards the former, and there's no way to objectively prove whether they did or didnt find it on accident.

the turrets are not enough to keep crew out of the shuttle, much less from bombing it, and the argument of "just leave an op to guard the nuke" is one of the stupidest arguments i've ever heard; for one thing, nobody is going to want to do that, and for another, there is no reason that the ops should HAVE to guard the nuke--powergaming shuttle boarders aside, its a maximum of five ops against upwards of 45-50+ crew members. i dont care how heavily armed they are, unless they're each shelling out huge portions of tc for noslips and/or adrenal implants and/or shielded hardsuits, one bar of soap or one taser shot is a death sentence 99% of the time. unless there's unholy amounts of greytide/suicide the ops WILL be at a disadvantage.

every single time the shuttle gets attacked/bombed/the nuke stolen out of, ooc erupts into salt, and a thread like this is made, and it generally just causes a lot of ahelps and nonsense that could be entirely avoided, and the generalized disagreement between admins and precedents only reinforces this. as i've said, in my opinion the shuttle should be indestructible and off limits to anyone NOT the ops, or at the very least the turrets buffed massively.

but lets be real here: nothing will change. coderbus will do nothing to deter this behavior of blatant powergaming the shuttle, admins will continue to disagree completely, another round exactly like what happened in the OP will happen, and another thread exactly like this will be made. its sad that such a statement isnt cynycism, but fact; so i guess i'll see you guys again here in the near future.

[Not-Dorsidarf]

We've had people boh singulo an armed nuke with no repercussions.

Do you think this is okay? Seems pretty extreme to do that just to cuck an antag out of greentext when they've already won.

What the fuck is this bullshit? You win when the nuke goes off, not when it's armed you bitch, don't like it? guard the nuke until the countdown timer is close then evac.

making a singularity to kill the nuke should be syndicate minor victory though.

"The crew managed to prevent the nuclear operatives from destroying the station by destroying it first themselves. This is a dark day for common sense."

[DemonFiren]

common sense

isn't

[InsaneHyena]

You can survivy singularity for quite some time - probably until you can evacuate on the shuttle. Nuke will kill everyone quickly. Makes sense.

[CPTANT]

Nuke ops shuttles should just be made indestructible again.

Solves the same thread from showing up every month.

[Bombadil]

Just happened on sybil i swear to fucking god we just need to make the nuke shuttle invulnerable again codewise

[Not-Dorsidarf]

You can survivy singularity for quite some time - probably until you can evacuate on the shuttle. Nuke will kill everyone quickly. Makes sense.

the point of nuke mode is to stop them from destroying the station. Thats why it's a syndicate minor victory if you leave the disc on the station when you evacuate. Because once all the spacemen are gone the surviving nuke ops will stroll in and blow the place to kingdom come unopposed. This would be the same circumstance - "You all got away but the station is fucked"

[Steelpoint]

The syndi ship turrets need to be buffed.

Simply making their bullets have instant travel time would be sufficient.

[Reece]

Make the floors electrocute non syndicate members

[Bombadil]

The syndi ship turrets need to be buffed.

Simply making their bullets have instant travel time would be sufficient.

There are blind spots for the turrets

[CPTANT]

The syndi ship turrets need to be buffed.

Simply making their bullets have instant travel time would be sufficient.

There are blind spots for the turrets

And it also doesn't prevent people from throwing bombs at the shuttle or abusing girders to get close.


Come on guys the shuttle ALREADY WAS INDESTRUCTABLE IN THE PAST and it solved all problems.

[Bombadil]

One round meteor event destroyed the syndie shuttle. It was like meteors going through tissue papee

[Steelpoint]

I'm going to propose a PR that makes the Syndicate ships outer hull indestructible, I think it's byond the point of stupidity how oft I see the crew breach the ship with minimal effort.

I have often seen, during War Ops, a bunch of the crew flying through space, before the Ops have landed, waiting to toss some bombs and space dat nuke.

[Nilons]

I'm going to propose a PR that makes the Syndicate ships outer hull indestructible, I think it's byond the point of stupidity how oft I see the crew breach the ship with minimal effort.

I have often seen, during War Ops, a bunch of the crew flying through space, before the Ops have landed, waiting to toss some bombs and space dat nuke.

Doing what you just described is already against the rules

[Bombadil]

I'm going to propose a PR that makes the Syndicate ships outer hull indestructible, I think it's byond the point of stupidity how oft I see the crew breach the ship with minimal effort.

I have often seen, during War Ops, a bunch of the crew flying through space, before the Ops have landed, waiting to toss some bombs and space dat nuke.

Doing what you just described is already against the rules

AND IT JUST KEEPS HAPPENING. I reported an engineer for it nothing happened

[John_Oxford]

That's a whole lot of post's that are likely exactly what i'm going to say but fuck it.

1. If the nuke is on the operative shuttle, is not armed, and you did not see a operative head off into space in its direction, it's metagaming and against the rules.
2. If the nuke is on the operative shuttle, is not armed, and you did you a operative head off into space in its direction, see him enter the ship, manage to kill all the turrets and board it, and kill the operative, you are well within your rights to space the nuke and blow up the ship.
3. If the nuke is on the operative shuttle, is armed, and you did see a operative head off into space in its direction, see him enter the ship, manage to kill all the turrets and board it, and kill the operative, you are well within your rights to space the nuke and blow up the ship.
4. If the nuke is not on the operative shuttle, and is not armed, you are well within your rights to space the nuke.
5. If the nuke is not on the operative shuttle, and is armed, you are well within your rights to space the nuke.

This has been precedent and in effect since i started playing on this server circa two years ago. If you disagree let me kindly direct you to the other 25 people who have been playing here that long too. There are several members of the admin team and coder bus that will wholeheartedly agree with me in every aspect of this, regardless of the fact that i'm oxford.

Also if pax was the one that did this, i'm going to bring up the "your fucking stupid" card for saying "SURE LETS TRIALMIN ICE "MINOR IC CRIME" PAX BUT NOT OXFORD" because this is a level of stupidity and autism that even i couldn't storm up.

[John_Oxford]

the turrets are not enough to keep crew out of the shuttle

This but keep the turrets, remove all that bullshit i said about TC cost for outfitting the syndicate ship, and just stick one of the big ones on the ship and make it a simple mob. Make the turrets shoot bullets that delete objects then make it target objects too to prevent bombs being thrown at it.

Minigun Variant - Grenade Launcher Variant - Hellstorm Variant (missiles/railgun)

Takes the place of turrets on the syndicate shuttle, since obviously it's going to be allowed to try to attack it now.

The syndicate shuttle will start with walls that are weldable, and able to be breached by bombs, with no turrets, no medbay, and three less suit storage.
From now on, the entire team collectively will recieve a total of 100 TC to buy shuttle upgrades with. (you don't have to buy shuttle upgrades, but risk losing the nuke)
Shuttle Upgrades can be purchased from the team leaders supply radio. (the 100 TC is distributed at round start automatically)

It will cost 20 TC to upgrade the shuttle with a plas-steel hull, which will prevent it from being welded into
It will cost 20 TC to upgrade the shuttle with a plastanium alloy, which will prevent it from being bombed.
It will cost 10 TC to secure the airlocks on the shuttle with buttons that cannot be hacked, and blast doors that cannot be breached (along with the cockpit window)
It will cost 70 TC to equip the shuttle with turrets
It will cost 90 TC to equip the shuttle with a Hellstorm HCD, which will have a 100,000 unit ionized plasma cell, but consume power enough to where that would only last a good 10 minutes with full equipment use. Ionized Plasma Cells (the thing on the back) can be purchased with 6 TC, and are large items, requiring two hands to install, they can fit on backs, suit storages, and a backpack carrying case (which carries two, and costs 10 TC) When it is worn, it slows down the user by loads, and exposes them to getting shot in the back, which would detonate the fuel cells with the force equalvilant to a minibomb (normal fuel cells on the floor have the effect of a C4) The syndicate thought of this though, and fitted the shields on shielded hardsuits to leech off the power in these cells passively when the backpack is worn, allowing the user to absorb 10 ish more hits from projectiles and lasers.

It costs a independent 80 TC (purchasable from any uplink) to buy either a minigun variant, or a grenade launcher variant.

Minigun Variant
2x GVU-53 14mm Rotary Combat Turrets
-500 round capacity for each turret (Ammo Boxes must be loaded by another agent, these cost two TC a piece)
-Both turrets fired in succession
-Fully automatic, inane fire rate, extreme knock down and four hit crit, chance to blow limbs off
1x IR Smoke Deployment System (SDS)
-Very large smoke screen
-Smoke is a 50/50 mix of tear gas and smoke
-Leaves a film on the floor after it goes away which causes people to slip (lube)
2x Breaching Charge Launchers
-Sticky Grenade Launcher, fires two 40mm grenades before having to reload (Ammo comes in packs of two and costs two TC a piece)
-Grenade only destroys what it sticks to, can stick to people and simple mobs, will not breach into space if it isn't directly stuck onto the floor
-Can be loaded with remote charges, detonated from the combat borg
1x Energy Combat Lance
-Very Large Energy Sword
-100% chance to delimb
-Knocks down
1x Engine Detonation
-Immediately begins to bleed off thousands of units of power, but all remaining smoke charges, overloads the energy lance, causing it to reach out a few tiles in a 45 degree arc and cut off anyones legs who happens to be standing there, fires the grenades in random directions, then dumps all of the remaining rounds of the minigun in all directions then detonates with the force of a maxcap throwing shrapnel in all directions, requires the borg to confirm.
1x Cryptographic Sequencer
1x Seclite
1x Energy Bola Launcher (consumes 500 power)
1x Flash

EDIT: just realized i didn't actually finish the descriptions for any of the other ones or even the minigun one, but just assume lots of bullets and overpowered unkillable terminator fuck you bullshit weaponry.

imagine a legendary sentry bot from FO4, that also happens to have mortars and big fuckhuge energy sword and tank tracks

[John_Oxford]

We've had people boh singulo an armed nuke with no repercussions.

Do you think this is okay? Seems pretty extreme to do that just to cuck an antag out of greentext when they've already won.

they wouldn't win in that situation though. that's literally the act of them losing.


hug box

[Steelpoint]

>its against the rules

Seems to not make a difference then as it keeps happening, maybe there are repercussions for the person after the fact but it does not remove the fact it happens in the first place.

[Takeguru]

I have often seen, during War Ops, a bunch of the crew flying through space, before the Ops have landed, waiting to toss some bombs and space dat nuke.

>We announced our arrival and got fucked for it admins ban pls

[ShadowDimentio]

Plastitanium walls should be totally bombproof and the turrets should be relocated so there are no blind spots. Bam, fair.

[Nilons]

I have often seen, during War Ops, a bunch of the crew flying through space, before the Ops have landed, waiting to toss some bombs and space dat nuke.

>We announced our arrival and got fucked for it admins ban pls

>We announced our arrival so the crew could build defenses but instead they wiki'd where our ship will spawn to instakill us when we arrived

Fair and shouldn't be banned

[Qbopper]

I have often seen, during War Ops, a bunch of the crew flying through space, before the Ops have landed, waiting to toss some bombs and space dat nuke.

>We announced our arrival and got fucked for it admins ban pls

>We announced our arrival so the crew could build defenses but instead they wiki'd where our ship will spawn to instakill us when we arrived

Fair and shouldn't be banned

nilons is right again

taking a proactive stance against ops is fine, using metaknowledge to find the ship's possible locations and insta killing them as they pile out is not - think about it IC, would you know that a space ship was going to land in EXACTLY the same spot every time? It's a limitation of the way the shuttle works, not something that's intended to be used as a tool to stop the ops