What CAN security get in trouble for these days?

[Oldman Robustin]

Bottom post of the previous page:

1) Literally do nothing except report crime early in the shift

2) Sec repeatedly and wordlessly stuns me as I stand still in maint

3) I bitch about it on radio and someone drags me away

4) Another officer chases me down and stuns me again, I shout "SEC HAS TURNED ON THE CREW! FIGHT BACK!"

5) Sec harmbatons me all the way to perma and then tosses me in a sealed cell

6) Get told its valid because I tried to incite a riot

At this point why even have a brig? Just give every officer a box full of lethal injection because they can apparently sprint around maint shooting anyone they like without saying anything and then kill me if they point out that I'm acting more like an antag than the actual fucking antags that round (this was actually true). No wonder posing as security as a ling is GODMODE - I dont' blame 99% of our players for not wanting to even touch a sec officer, even one with an armblade, when even sneezing in their direction is now grounds for taking you out of the round.

How about we start enforcing Rule 1 on Officers again? Or better yet can we get rid of "random arrests" under code blue. Someone slipped in the word change in a PR from "Probable" to "Random" searches under Code Blue and that timing has basically coincided with all of my worst encounters with security when security has the greenlight to fuck with a good 25% of your round for absolutely no reason, it leads to this sort of shitty policy where sec can take a big shit on your round for absolutely no reason but also take a nice permanent shit on your round if you so much as look at them funny.

[J_Madison]

You lying little fuck. You went braindead during a cult round and was moved into the brig and searched.

Because of gameplay stress on the crew, they left you naked. So you came back from being braindead and used that excuse to steal security equipment including a melee stun weapon.

No fuck you, you went braindead you know you could get messed with. That isn't an excuse to ransack brig locker room for whatever you find.

I'm calling you out on this bullshit.

[Dax Dupont]

If your original post is any indication, you might've ended up skipping some details.

Nothing was missing. If you believe the lies I shot down them I can't help you. There's nothing else missing in my above post either. I was ready in the lobby, went to code shit, come back 5-15m later and I'm in a brig cell with all my shit removed.

You lying little fuck. You went braindead during a cult round and was moved into the brig and searched.

Because of gameplay stress on the crew, they left you naked. So you came back from being braindead and used that excuse to steal security equipment including a melee stun weapon.

No fuck you, you went braindead you know you could get messed with. That isn't an excuse to ransack brig locker room for whatever you find.

I'm calling you out on this bullshit.

[Oldman Robustin]

Security is pure binary. Either they are clear to do anything they want to someone, or they release them. The difference between a minor and major crime is slim and its easy to drum up charges to justify any punishment you want to give.

This is basically the exact attitude OP was talking about, that even the smallest infraction opens you up to any and all sadistic whims security has for the rest of the round.

This is the essence of the issue. When security has authorization to to lite-grief anyone for any reason (random searches that can result in several minutes of your round gone, all conducted wordlessly without even the slightest effort to accommodate the player and completely innocuous items like insulated gloves getting confiscated) and heavy grief for minor reasons (having a spear when there's mass-kudzu, having a weapon when weapons just got summoned, or basically existing during any conversion mode) while simultaneously being able to flat out being able to flat out ruin your round for any degree of resistance and having admin protection from any serious retaliation from non-antags and you've got a recipe for some serious fucking powertripping.

And Kor is right, if you see security mutilate or kill someone for a minor crime (even when the rest of the station is intact and relatively calm) and you do the same to security - you're rolling the ban dice with heavy odds against you. I mean that's essentially the story of my 2nd to last ban (HOS seizes control from Captain Trump for being a meme, HOS publicly delimbs the clown who apparently attacked the HOS for gulag'ing the captain, I badly wound the HOS, not even crit, and I caught a ban and had it upheld). Its very common to see a captain hacking off people limbs for minor stuff like hacking into the teleporter but we've reached the point where even shouting "Captain is rogue!" gives cap/sec an opening to toss you in perma, or at least give you a max gulag/cell sentence and stripping all your gear. That's what I mean when I say "apply rule 1" to security, I mean apply some semblance of escalation rules to their behavior besides the current model of:

1) Literally do nothing = 0-5 minutes in sec custody with anything useful 'confiscated' (if you ahelp prepare for the "imperfect players" or "security is a chaotic experience" speech)

2) Literally anything that could be twisted to describe a crime, regardless of context, excuses, or justification = Enjoy your summary execution/perma/1000pt. gulag sentence fuckboy (sane officers are the only reason that there's any middle ground between 1 and 2)

[Nilons]

Someone needs to fucking ban robustin for this, we talked in dms and are semi cool so I've been trying to fade back on this issue but lying this blatantly in an effort to change server rules based on said lies should not be allowed. He said he stole clothes, a bag, and a radio, which by the way makes you look like a cop to people with no hud, the jumpsuit has armour, and the radio has sec channels so that's completely justified imo. But then intentionally left out that he took a fucking stun bludgeon, how can someone get away with trying to force a rule precedent on a foundation of false anecdotes and bullshit stories and not be punished. Combined with the advanced horseshit from the op post and the fact he forgot to mention he got grabbed on a cult round, not a traitor ling or traitor round like he said, which is completely plausible for sec to take you to the brig on (you should know this you fucking coded it). What makes you think you have the right to try to take control of precedents if you have to lie about everything you have to back them?

Edit:. You didn't "shoot down" anything, you just said that you weren't lying like that was that despite multiple people saying you were lying about different anecdotes

[Oldman Robustin]

"You lying little fuck. You went braindead during a cult round and was moved into the brig and searched.

Because of gameplay stress on the crew, they left you naked."

>Going braindead during a cult round justified being stripped naked and trapped in the brig
>Because of gameplay stress created by being a braindead assistant

Maybe they wouldn't be so stressed if they weren't busy dragging in braindead people and stripping every single item off their body. Oh boy JMad's fucking autism parade is just getting warmed up lets see where this is going...

>Leaves person stark naked in the brig for the crime of being braindead
>Gulags them because they picked up stuff from the open clothing locker you left them next to so they can try to leave
>Act like its their fault for being braindead

Yup. Right where I expect, JMad's personal tour through the spectrum.

I expect antags to fuck me up and leave me dead or trapped somewhere when I'm braindead. Not security. But you and a select few shitcurity seems to get "antag role" and "security role" mixed up on a regular basis.

Edit: Lol @ Nilons boarding the JMad autism train, thanks for confirming your "select few shitcurity" status. Remember kids, if someone has been braindead since roundstart and is just sitting in the dorms staring at a table, you can leave them trapped in the brig naked and if they try to leave using the only equipment you've left behind that would allow them to leave - just gulag them! It's not your fault you left them trapped naked inside a room for absolutely no reason!

[Karp]

i honestly don't know who's worse at this point

i play assistant mostly but all of these retards who continually instigate shit and cause a war every round, before crying when they die as a result are fucking horrendous babies after giving everyone a headache to deal with

or people who think sec should be allowed to behead someone for not recycling their soda can and that anyone who disobeys this right given to security should be punished/not allowed to make policy

Spoiler:

you're both fucking awful and you both instigate the behaviour you bitch about in the other party

[onleavedontatme]

or people who think sec should be allowed to behead someone for not recycling their soda can and that anyone who disobeys this right given to security should be punished/not allowed to make policy

These people are worse because not only do you have a tough time getting admins involved in dealing with them, but you risk being banned yourself for fighting back. They're also way more numerous and way better geared.

The assistants at least you can pretty safely kill/detain/get them banned if they go too far, and they're usually acting alone (if they're acting at all, I run into insane security way more often and security/assistant are the only jobs I play).

[Nilons]

or people who think sec should be allowed to behead someone for not recycling their soda can and that anyone who disobeys this right given to security should be punished/not allowed to make policy

These people are worse because not only do you have a tough time getting admins involved in dealing with them, but you risk being banned yourself for fighting back. They're also way more numerous and way better geared.

The assistants at least you can pretty safely kill/detain/get them banned if they go too far, and they're usually acting alone (if they're acting at all, I run into insane security way more often and security/assistant are the only jobs I play).

This is true, assistants get no favour from admins even if they're in the wrong whereas sec will always be favoured by admins because its greytiders initiating the conflict 95% of the time

[bman]

or people who think sec should be allowed to behead someone for not recycling their soda can and that anyone who disobeys this right given to security should be punished/not allowed to make policy

These people are worse because not only do you have a tough time getting admins involved in dealing with them, but you risk being banned yourself for fighting back. They're also way more numerous and way better geared.

The assistants at least you can pretty safely kill/detain/get them banned if they go too far, and they're usually acting alone (if they're acting at all, I run into insane security way more often and security/assistant are the only jobs I play).

This is true, assistants get no favour from admins even if they're in the wrong whereas sec will always be favoured by admins because its greytiders initiating the conflict 95% of the time

while this is true i believe that it's kind of biased to immediately take one side's favor.

[Oldman Robustin]

I seem to be missing this dilemma from some of the more enlightened posters here who seem to encounter anarchy and an infinite tide washing against the brig every round if they don't mercilessly kill anyone who gets in their way.

Even when I'm trying to be efficient I find its much more effect to avoid mild provocations and give verbal warnings than to drag every crewmember who slights me back to the brig for a strip search and the harshest punishment I can get away with. When I'm not a massive shit to everyone I encounter, they generally return the favor by staying out of trouble or even PDA'ing me intel they get. They stay out of my round (in a negative sense) just as well as if I had thrown them in perma except I'm not wasting time or shitting on people's rounds in the process.

I like to think that I use our pro-security policy as intended - I deal with the minor issues like a non-sociopath and I deal with major issues via an ahelp. That's exactly how the policy was designed, in theory, so that security can focus on the real antagonists and bored crew can't unilaterally escalate until they've shattered the brig and looted the armory. Instead we're in this dystopian nightmare where admins will continue to aggressively act against people who try to harm you, even when you've spent the round doing your best "mentally unhinged gestapo officer on meth" impression.

If anyone actually "greytides" you as security you can easily get them banned and if you kill them yourself then they will get a ban if they try to ahelp it. Most of what I see now are the incidents I've described from the past 3 days.

"Man uses soap to clean gang tags, gets arrested for it, given 10 minutes because he called the officer rogue on radio"
"Man stripped completely naked and thrown in the brig for being braindead as an assistant all shift, sent to the gulag because he picked up the equipment we left on the floor next to him"

And you've actually got officers on the spectrum coming out in this thread and aggressively defending this state of affairs.

[J_Madison]

More lies from robustin.
You were braindead in arrivals, I could literally open metastation and show you exactly where I saw you several times during the shift.

It wasn't sec that stripped you. Your complaints about sec is unfounded because it was implanted crew that stripped you. They were pressed into conscription due to cult.

It was gameplay stress caused by a rogue medborg and a ratvar spear returning to life. Nobody was stressed out because of you. They just wanted to protect and prevent your conversion and bloating of cult numbers but had to deal with a cultist.

Your entire basis is that we should leave you alone when you've proven several times of being incapable of being left alone by security without causing problems. You even said you made a choice to go coding and braindead instead of ghosting or spectating.

For all I knew someone could have left a bomb on you and used your braindead status to bypass our threat levels.

You're the selfish one here for causing a problem, then trading eye for an eye because you felt you were wronged.

Oh boo hoo, you went braindead and someone secured your body from public hallways to prevent cult inflation, and suddenly it's your given right to steal sec equipment.

[Oldman Robustin]

JMad do you suffer from some particular affliction that causes you to state one position and immediately set about undermining it without revealing even a hint of irony?

"Your entire basis is that we should leave you alone when you've proven several times of being incapable of being left alone by security without causing problems."

Bonus points for admitting to metagrudging! Nice!

[J_Madison]

Attending to Kor's statement saying these kind of players are hard to ban.

Yes, thy are hard to ban because it's on something I've coined as the "balance of responsibility".

Simply put, the more responsible and reactionary something is, the harder it is to apply a ban because it's done in a reaction.

You might not want to start a shift, make spears and throw them at people, but someone else will. And especially if they are on jobs with zero accountability or commitment to the betterment of the round at all, the decision to ban sides with the fact that one person has accountability, had a role, and reacted. They didn't initiate the attack or go around looking for trouble.


There was a round where a capt straight up layered a lizard assistant to death for breaking into the office, diced him, debrained him and carried the brain.

No bans. It's amazing huh? But they made a choice to play a non-asimov race and go somewhere they shouldn't be.
It's ultimately who started it. I would sooner forgive the Security officer for stealing gloves than an assistant. Because the security officer has an obligation to do a job, he contributes gameplay security to the round. He may have made a choice to initiate a theft, but very often crimes by sec are actually reactionary.


And robustin. One truth prevails. Even when I lie I tell the truth. You point fingers like I do things wrong to you when I play a contributing job. You bum around as assistant and murderbone with ebow.

Say hello to the shitcurity that only does things on reaction. Hell I have a no first use policy on force. I have never initiated the wronging of someone except as a mistaken reaction.

And mistakes are not against the rules. Mistakes happen.



But you robustin, and many other assistants initiate minor problems for sec and cry when we react.
We're seemingly bulletproof from bans because we don't start shit in the first place.

[Nilons]

Jmad is putting robustin in the fucking grave here keep it up famalam

[Karp]

These people are worse because not only do you have a tough time getting admins involved in dealing with them, but you risk being banned yourself for fighting back. They're also way more numerous and way better geared.

The assistants at least you can pretty safely kill/detain/get them banned if they go too far, and they're usually acting alone (if they're acting at all, I run into insane security way more often and security/assistant are the only jobs I play).

I guess, but that stems from people trusting certain roles due to their antagonist immunities, while security is also forced to kill half the station 50% of the time with all the gamemodes in rotation or sit in deadchat for an hour due to spam recalls, being bitched at by other players about arbitrary things in the round resulting in them being trigger happy or risking having their round ruined for an hour or more

I'm not trying to advocate for security antagonist but if a changeling mindshields themselves and takes an officer's identity, or the head of security's identity they can generally get away with randomly running into people and harmbatonning them with people just accepting it for a decent chunk of time until people start to get suspicious/it happens to them

People put too much trust in sec OOC and IC, and even admins fall prey to it too resulting in them being a rung up when it comes to lack of punishment or responsibilities to their acts while being heavily armored

[oranges]

having a security force was a mistake, Numbers was right, every post by security players confirms it further

[Pascal125]

This thread was over on page one. Why the fuck is it still going.

This thread's literally just Robustin blatantly Lying, people bringing up random shit and refusing to understand why Security might act on it. And just what is even going on anymore.

It's the wild west of derailment and stupid shit in here.

And Kor. Seriously, stop it man. You know Robustin's full of shit. His screaming in this thread shouldn't be convincing you otherwise.

Jesus christ. This thread. It was created by a tumor, and it's spreading.

[CPTANT]

This thread was over on page one. Why the fuck is it still going.

This thread's literally just Robustin Lying, people bringing up random shit and refusing to understand why Security might act on it. And just what is even going on anymore.

It's the wild west of derailment and stupid shit in here.

And Kor. Seriously, stop it man. You know Robustin's full of shit. His screaming in this thread shouldn't be convincing you otherwise.

Jesus christ.

No the issue is real. unequal escalation rules are a thing.

[Slignerd]

I mean, yeah, it's natural that security arresting someone for doing something or permanently shutting someone down with an execution if they cause too much trouble is held to a different standard than a random assisting kidnapping, looting and eventually killing security officers. It's kind of common sense.

[onleavedontatme]

Even if Robustin is 100% full of shit about what happened in that instance and hallucinated the entire thing it doesnt mean that the trend isnt real.

[onleavedontatme]

If anything the sec officer who got banned for stopping the captain from killing someone over a five minute sentence crime and the subsequent posts agreeing with the ban a far better example than anything robustin could have dreamed up

[Slignerd]

> rushing the bridge as assistant
> only a 5 minute sentence
> 5 minutes later, they rush the bridge again, except now geared up to attack the captain because "escalation"

That's why space law is only a guideline, kids!

[CPTANT]

I think the people here have perfectly demonstrated the "THE PUNISHMENT FOR EVERY CRIME IS DEATH" and "SECURITY IS NEVER WRONG" mentality that is currently prevalent.

[onleavedontatme]

> 5 minutes later, they rush the bridge again, except now geared up to attack the captain because "escalation"

This didn't happen.

If it had happened it could have ended in 3 ways

A) Captain wins the fight. Assistant is out of the round.

B) Captain wins the fight. Assistant ahelps it. Assistant is banned for banbaiting.

C) Assistant wins the fight. Admin asks them why they did this. Tell them its because they got a normal sentence for a crime earlier. Banned for abusing escalation.

[PKPenguin321]

people should get the right to dunk security as well.

wtf what do you mean I can't kill all of security as non-antag assistant??

Are you serious? You're out here saying "captain should be unarrestable for straight up murder and sec should be able to kill as they please" and as soon as somebody says "hey maybe that's not true" you flip the ENTIRE other way around and start accusing them of killing all of sec and the captain as they please? This is the stupidest shit I've ever read, you're mocking your own argument from the other side. Please grow up.

randomly arrested

I'd be willing to be that this is a separate issue. Try playing with random name/appearance.

[onleavedontatme]

And mistakes are not against the rules. Mistakes happen.

The problem is there is little incentive to do things correctly or to go out of your way to avoid those mistakes (and its not always a mistake with certain players). An officer can still act completely psychotic and incompetent and even genocidal and the admins will enforce crew compliance and support for security. Cargo will still be obligated to buy your implants for you, medbay will still be required to heal you (or just take their stuff, whatever, everyone can do any job), etc.

[Dr_bee]

Killing people as a non-antag without VERY good reason used to eat you a day-ban, Even as security.

It made security very reluctant to actually kill people without solid evidence, and honestly that was better.

You still had horrible people fucking with sec but they would either get permad and ghost or get adminhelped, murder was typically only reserved for actual assaults on ones life, and beating a subdued prisoner to death was not tolerated unless there was solid evidence they were an antagonist of some kind.

I know we dont want to go back to the days of security having to enforce space law as server policy, but my god, weve gone the other way completely.

Ive had a situation where I was lasered to death by the captain and then cremated for preventing a shuttle recall and the cap only got a damn warning, things that used to net you at least a day's time out now dont seem to have any consequence.

[Slignerd]

I think the people here have perfectly demonstrated the "THE PUNISHMENT FOR EVERY CRIME IS DEATH" and "SECURITY IS NEVER WRONG" mentality that is currently prevalent.

As it did with the "I want to do what I want, and that includes harassing and killing security with no repercussions" mentality that is currently all over this thread and the server.

---

Are you serious? You're out here saying "captain should be unarrestable for straight up murder and sec should be able to kill as they please" and as soon as somebody says "hey maybe that's not true" you flip the ENTIRE other way around and start accusing them of killing all of sec and the captain as they please? This is the stupidest shit I've ever read, you're mocking your own argument from the other side. Please grow up.

See:

I mean, yeah, it's natural that security arresting someone for doing something or permanently shutting someone down with an execution if they cause too much trouble is held to a different standard than a random assisting kidnapping, looting and eventually killing security officers. It's kind of common sense.

---

A) Captain wins the fight. Assistant is out of the round.

B) Captain wins the fight. Assistant ahelps it. Assistant is banned for banbaiting.

C) Assistant wins the fight. Admin asks them why they did this. Tell them its because they got a normal sentence for a crime earlier. Banned for abusing escalation.

D) Assistant wins the fight. There are no admins, or the active admin simply doesn't intervene.

E) Captain wins the fight. Entire round is hijacked by increased amount of greyshirts "rising up", possibly even stirred up by the AI or assisted by officers who saw this as an opportunity to overrule the Captain, content with replacing them as the person with authority over the station.

---

Killing people as a non-antag without VERY good reason used to eat you a day-ban, Even as security.

It made security very reluctant to actually kill people without solid evidence, and honestly that was better.

You still had horrible people fucking with sec but they would either get permad and ghost or get adminhelped, murder was typically only reserved for actual assaults on ones life, and beating a subdued prisoner to death was not tolerated unless there was solid evidence they were an antagonist of some kind.


I know we dont want to go back to the days of security having to enforce space law as server policy, but my god, weve gone the other way completely.

Ive had a situation where I was lasered to death by the captain and then cremated for preventing a shuttle recall and the cap only got a damn warning, things that used to net you at least a day's time out now dont seem to have any consequence.

This is a pretty nuanced take at this, and maybe things were indeed more peaceful that way. But with how bad assistant griefing has been for quite some time, playing nice is simply ineffective - people don't really learn, and you end up having to deal with the same troublemakers again and again.

[CPTANT]

I think the people here have perfectly demonstrated the "THE PUNISHMENT FOR EVERY CRIME IS DEATH" and "SECURITY IS NEVER WRONG" mentality that is currently prevalent.

As it did with the "I want to do what I want, and that includes harassing and killing security with no repercussions" mentality that is currently all over this thread and the server.

I literally said if I am tazed unproked and if after disengaging an officer comes back that I want to be able to escalate.

"hur dur kill all off sec without repercussions"

[onleavedontatme]

I think you need to take a break from security if your response to lawbreaking is to imagine an entire impromptu rev round, and then punish that person for the imaginary future crimes of the entire crew.

[Slignerd]

I literally said if I am tazed unproked and if after disengaging an officer comes back that I want to be able to escalate.

"hur dur kill all off sec without repercussions"

You literally said you'd throw them out of an airlock.

I think you need to take a break from security if your response to lawbreaking is to imagine an entire impromptu rev round, and then punish that person for the imaginary future crimes of the entire crew.

I've taken a break from the game, because every round is an impromptu rev round. Both of the scenarios I brought up actually happened to me.

[CPTANT]

I literally said if I am tazed unproked and if after disengaging an officer comes back that I want to be able to escalate.

"hur dur kill all off sec without repercussions"

You literally said you'd throw them out of an airlock.

You really failed to comprehend I said this after Nilons said people could only be a massive cunt once?

[CPTANT]

Anyway as something actionable I think it would be good to revise this precedent:

6. Players who attempt to break into the captain's office, head of personnel's office, or the bridge at or near roundstart for no legitimate reason put themselves at risk for being legitimately killed by the captain, heads of staff, or security.

Personally I think that the punishment for major trespass given in space law of 5 minutes / 500 points is just fine without murdering everyone at first sight.

[D&B]

Why should people breaking in high danger areas get off with a slap in the wrist?

[Slignerd]

Oh yes, I sure would like to see more players attempting to break into the captain's office, head of personnel's office, or the bridge at or near roundstart for no legitimate reason.

[Slignerd]

Why should people breaking in high danger areas get off with a slap in the wrist?

It's funny, because they assume it's always only one person, rather than the usual of around three people, sometimes even six at its worst. Next they'll suggest it's feasible to arrest all these people simultaneously and then take them to the brig with no obstructions.

[onleavedontatme]

Next they'll suggest it's feasible to arrest all these people simultaneously and then take them to the brig with no obstructions.

You keep imagining things and then arguing with them and its really not a good use of anyones time

[Pascal125]

This whole thread is a stupid fucking shitfest started by an ill-disguised ban request in "Policy Discussion". From a guy who blatantly lied about why he was permabrigged during a cult round and the circumstances surrounding it.
Thread's icky as shit and reminds me of the time this one Sybil regular started disarm spamming me. I asked them to stop, they did not. So i Tazed them.
Then their detective buddy rolls in. .38's and cuffs me. Then the Tider starts stealing all my gear. When i A-help the Admins like. "Well they said you tazed them.".

Literally just make killing/attacking/breaking into high-security area's as an Assistant/Security/Command without Antag status a bannable offense if you're so great.
See who winds up banned first. The Tiders or Security. And how many A-help's you'll have to dredge your way through from people like Robustin.

That's literally all this thread is amounting to right now.

Sad part is, at-least then something would get done. And things would go back to being less about "Minor Crime" and "Security detained me can i kill them and why shouldn't i when they Tazed me."

[bandit]

This whole thread is a stupid fucking shitfest started by an ill-disguised ban request in "Policy Discussion". From a guy who blatantly lied about why he was permabrigged during a cult round and the circumstances surrounding it.

This, we should probably make some adjustments to sec policy but the cancer is too endemic in this thread for it to happen here

[AdolfHonk]

Pro tip if your the shitcurity type: Toggle beepskey to arrest anyone with no idea. HOP's closed.

[Dax Dupont]

This whole thread is a stupid fucking shitfest started by an ill-disguised ban request in "Policy Discussion". From a guy who blatantly lied about why he was permabrigged during a cult round and the circumstances surrounding it.

This, we should probably make some adjustments to sec policy but the cancer is too endemic in this thread for it to happen here

If you do this, please crack down on greytiding first. There's a lot of instances where making concrete ahelps isn't possible because of either assistants technically not breaking the rules and rule 0 is very subjective. Or behavior that spans multiple rounds.
There's players that solely play to make everyone/security ''s experience terrible but it's hard to show it concretely since we lost ban requests and we can't really document cases like this while having them actionable.

[Karp]

It's a bad idea to delay on it, the more and more drawn out these arguments get over both security being intolerable assholes who kill everything with a pulse then cuff and permabrig the dead bodies and the more complaints there are on people endlessly having autistic shitfits in which they nonantag destroy 90% of the station over a 2 minute brig sentence for breaking the window the more it gets seen as a norm and a standard.

It's easy to look away but it's far more important to face the problem head on, and the solution will most likely displease or anger both parties. We've had numerous threads already on security running deathcamps in which the entire crew is processed and morgue slabbed/hidden to prevent cloning and people greytiding to such a nauseating extent that they make the game unfun to even look at the role "Security Officer".

The more time we waste on "Aw we should wait a a bit and try to figure out something that pleases [group] due to [reason] in the thread!" the more we fail to address the issues at hand, if the issues could even be considered issues

im probably blowing things out of proportion honestly but this issue is a bandaid that's been on too long and needs to be ripped off or left on sooner rather than later

[Qbopper]

it's difficult for the admin team to move forward on anything because we all have differing opinions and I don't know why but it seems like discussions never get off the ground

even in the admin forums the discussions turn into back and forth shit like this thread and nothing gets done

I mentioned before that I think we should have an internal anonymous (or not?) survey asking everyone shit like "in [hypothetical scenario] would you rule party A or B at fault, explain" - not to formulate policy but just to gather up everyone's opinions and see how the majority of the admin team feels, it might let us actually start to have a discussion about this sort of thing

it probably won't happen but i made the idea at some point

[bandit]

it's also difficult to crack down on shitcurity for the same reason that it is difficult to crack down on graytiding -- it is usually more of a pattern, where each individual act isn't bannable on its own

this is exacerbated by

1) graytide and shitcurity being symbiotic
2) no ban requests = less tracking

[Kyrah Abattoir]

I might be a little late for the party but... lets consider things IC:

This is an NT station, all the people on it are employees of NT. Security is there to protect the crew and maintain order on the station.

Under those (wild) assumptions... why would an innocent resist arrest? ever? Isn't resisting arrest a crime in itself as far as the sec staff is concerned? On top of being suspicious as fuck?

[Pascal125]

Yes.

[onleavedontatme]

it's also difficult to crack down on shitcurity for the same reason that it is difficult to crack down on graytiding -- it is usually more of a pattern, where each individual act isn't bannable on its own

this is exacerbated by

1) graytide and shitcurity being symbiotic
2) no ban requests = less tracking

I don't think admin actions like this are down to poor tracking

[lumipharon]

Banned for ARRESTING the captain, not killing, not even demoting.

What am I reading.

[oranges]

lmao it's a real ban

[TheColdTurtle]

What in the God damn

[bandit]

well this thread whiplashed from "WE SHOULD BAN SECURITY" to "WE SHOULD NOT BAN SECURITY" fast as fuck