What CAN security get in trouble for these days?

Oldman Robustin · Sun Jun 11, 2017 8:53 pm

Bottom post of the previous page:

1) Literally do nothing except report crime early in the shift

2) Sec repeatedly and wordlessly stuns me as I stand still in maint

3) I bitch about it on radio and someone drags me away

4) Another officer chases me down and stuns me again, I shout "SEC HAS TURNED ON THE CREW! FIGHT BACK!"

5) Sec harmbatons me all the way to perma and then tosses me in a sealed cell

6) Get told its valid because I tried to incite a riot

At this point why even have a brig? Just give every officer a box full of lethal injection because they can apparently sprint around maint shooting anyone they like without saying anything and then kill me if they point out that I'm acting more like an antag than the actual fucking antags that round (this was actually true). No wonder posing as security as a ling is GODMODE - I dont' blame 99% of our players for not wanting to even touch a sec officer, even one with an armblade, when even sneezing in their direction is now grounds for taking you out of the round.

How about we start enforcing Rule 1 on Officers again? Or better yet can we get rid of "random arrests" under code blue. Someone slipped in the word change in a PR from "Probable" to "Random" searches under Code Blue and that timing has basically coincided with all of my worst encounters with security when security has the greenlight to fuck with a good 25% of your round for absolutely no reason, it leads to this sort of shitty policy where sec can take a big shit on your round for absolutely no reason but also take a nice permanent shit on your round if you so much as look at them funny.

bandit · Post by **bandit** » Fri Jun 16, 2017 5:53 am #309086

well this thread whiplashed from "WE SHOULD BAN SECURITY" to "WE SHOULD NOT BAN SECURITY" fast as fuck

Grazyn · Post by **Grazyn** » Fri Jun 16, 2017 8:15 am #309099

Or we could go back to the good old days of SoS, things were simpler then: arrest someone, if you get bwoinked they're innocent, let them go immediately; if you don't get bwoinked they're antag or otherwise valid, do what you want with them.

Slignerd · Post by **Slignerd** » Fri Jun 16, 2017 8:45 am #309100

We've already been through this

Sligneris wrote:Oh yes, that man is so innocent, he dindu nuffin and is being crushed 4noraisin. It's not like captain has full authority to deal out such punishment or anything.

Sligneris wrote:Security that goes rogue for the sake of protecting greytiders might actually just be the worst.

imblyings · Post by **imblyings** » Fri Jun 16, 2017 8:49 am #309101

That is exactly what happens, except players don't see admins finding out information or dealing with the various mitigating or escalating factors in an ahelp.

Admin coverage is its own problem but we've selected four new candidates recently and may select more. Historically, 4+ is a decent amount but also reaching the bounds of most suitable and willing people who can be found.

Slignerd · Post by **Slignerd** » Fri Jun 16, 2017 9:24 am #309105

Let's actually remove security and command. See how well that goes.

imblyings · Post by **imblyings** » Fri Jun 16, 2017 9:30 am #309106

Theres murky line to remaining empathetic to newer players and realizing after several years that in a game of conflict you will always have threads like this pop up. Thats all

Slignerd · Post by **Slignerd** » Fri Jun 16, 2017 10:20 am #309117

bandit wrote:well this thread whiplashed from "WE SHOULD BAN SECURITY" to "WE SHOULD NOT BAN SECURITY" fast as fuck

Well, to be fair, the actual question was "what can security get in trouble for these days?", and the answer to that is "going rogue on the captain".

onleavedontatme · Fri Jun 16, 2017 10:23 am

bandit wrote:well this thread whiplashed from "WE SHOULD BAN SECURITY" to "WE SHOULD NOT BAN SECURITY" fast as fuck

"We should ban security for acting psychotic" and "We should not ban security for stopping other members of security from acting psychotic" are entirely consistent positions

Steelpoint · Post by **Steelpoint** » Fri Jun 16, 2017 10:25 am #309121

The only solution I can think of is to set one server to enforceable 'medium RP' standards that everyone, antagonists and station crew, have to adhere to, and breaking the rules will get you banned from the server for a short time.

Slignerd · Post by **Slignerd** » Fri Jun 16, 2017 10:27 am #309122

"We should ban security for cracking down on greytide" and "We should not ban security for stopping other members of security from cracking down on greytide", more like

Of course security is only being good bois in scenarios where they side with the greyshirts.

CPTANT · Post by **CPTANT** » Fri Jun 16, 2017 10:29 am #309125

Steelpoint wrote:The only solution I can think of is to set one server to enforceable 'medium RP' standards that everyone, antagonists and station crew, have to adhere to, and breaking the rules will get you banned from the server for a short time.

Don't use the medium rp word please.

You can set precedents for punishments though. Having trespassing not mean death would be a good start.

Slignerd · Post by **Slignerd** » Fri Jun 16, 2017 10:32 am #309127

Steelpoint wrote:The only solution I can think of is to set one server to enforceable 'medium RP' standards that everyone, antagonists and station crew, have to adhere to, and breaking the rules will get you banned from the server for a short time.

"Medium RP standards" is incredibly vague and only makes me think what you really mean to say is something along the lines of "guys, just do it like CM does". Avoid that phrase, please.

CPTANT wrote:You can set precedents for punishments though. Having trespassing not mean death would be a good start.

We've already been through this one as well.

Sligneris wrote:> rushing the bridge as assistant
> only a 5 minute sentence
> 5 minutes later, they rush the bridge again, except now geared up to attack the captain because "escalation"

That's why space law is only a guideline, kids!

Sligneris wrote:Oh yes, I sure would like to see more players attempting to break into the captain's office, head of personnel's office, or the bridge at or near roundstart for no legitimate reason.

Sligneris wrote:It's funny, because they assume it's always only one person, rather than the usual of around three people, sometimes even six at its worst. Next they'll suggest it's feasible to arrest all these people simultaneously and then take them to the brig with no obstructions.

You still have yet to answer to any of that.

Pascal125 wrote:Thread's icky as shit and reminds me of the time this one Sybil regular started disarm spamming me. I asked them to stop, they did not. So i Tazed them.
Then their detective buddy rolls in. .38's and cuffs me. Then the Tider starts stealing all my gear. When i A-help the Admins like. "Well they said you tazed them.".

Literally just make killing/attacking/breaking into high-security area's as an Assistant/Security/Command without Antag status a bannable offense if you're so great.
See who winds up banned first. The Tiders or Security. And how many A-help's you'll have to dredge your way through from people like Robustin.

That's literally all this thread is amounting to right now.

Sad part is, at-least then something would get done. And things would go back to being less about "Minor Crime" and "Security detained me can i kill them and why shouldn't i when they Tazed me."

Reminder that this is the closest we got to an actual, specific, and actionable suggestion that isn't just "tell these meanies not to do thing I don't like

", simply because it instructs all parties to knock it down a notch.

onleavedontatme · Fri Jun 16, 2017 10:40 am

Sligneris wrote:"We should ban security for cracking down on greytide" and "We should not ban security for stopping other members of security from cracking down on greytide", more like Of course security is only being good bois in scenarios where they side with the greyshirts.

More black and white thinking and useless posts of imagined strawman arguments.

I dont think a single person in this thread has said the captain shouldnt be allowed to arrest the assistant

Slignerd · Post by **Slignerd** » Fri Jun 16, 2017 10:43 am #309132

Yes, but you did say he should then be let free with a slap on the wrist after 5 minutes. That usually means that after 5 minutes, you have to deal with the same guy again. At the time, you might be already preoccupied with another greyshirt and a clown, both of which got the same brilliant idea while you were busy processing the first one. That's even assuming no one interrupted you by pulling the first perp away and releasing them before you even managed to take them to the brig for processing, or that no one broke them out before the timer expired.

You know this happens, you just happen to be content with turning a blind eye to it.

CPTANT · Post by **CPTANT** » Fri Jun 16, 2017 11:16 am #309134

Sligneris wrote:Yes, but you did say he should then be let free with a slap on the wrist after 5 minutes. That usually means that after 5 minutes, you have to deal with the same guy again. At the time, you might be already preoccupied with another greyshirt and a clown, both of which got the same brilliant idea while you were busy processing the first one. That's even assuming no one interrupted you by pulling the first perp away and releasing them before you even managed to take them to the brig for processing, or that no one broke them out before the timer expired.

You know this happens, you just happen to be content with turning a blind eye to it.

Holy shit just how much straw do you have.

*I must execute you for breaking this window, because after breaking this window you are sure to push me while I try to arrest you after which you will steal my tazer which you will use to taze the HoP and get all access while your greytide friends storm the brig with all access and steal the entire armory and shoot everyone trying to stop them.*

Remove brig and gulag, only sentence is death.

You could you know NOT punish someone for THINGS THEY HAVEN"T DONE.

Slignerd · Post by **Slignerd** » Fri Jun 16, 2017 11:24 am #309137

Breaking into the captain's office roundstart is usually the one thing they have done, and that's what they're being punished for. If they're not punished, or if you stop guarding the office while taking the perp to the brig, then others see it and jump on the bandwagon. Still wondering why you try to pretend the most crime ever happens is only a single guy breaking a single window throughout the entire round.

Pascal125 · Post by **Pascal125** » Fri Jun 16, 2017 11:28 am #309140

"Literally just make killing/attacking/breaking into high-security area's as an Assistant/Security/Command without Antag status a bannable offense if you're so great.
See who winds up banned first. The Tiders or Security. And how many A-help's you'll have to dredge your way through from people like Robustin."

If you don't like that idea,
Here's another idea.

Temporarily prevent the Tiders whining in here from everything but Security. And if necessary, why don't we boycott Security, let the professionals in this thread handle it?
Assistants can continue to do whatever the fuck they want, as Assistants do anyways. and if the new-blood decides to act on it that isn't just a slap on the wrist over and over like they want to see from this thread; ban them for being shitsec.
In-fact, why don't you play Security. Kor. Show the boys how it's done? I'm sure they'll need it. Really am.

They get to try to be the change they want to see, in the department they want to see. And if they fail, they can at-least leave with the belief that their problem is being handled one by one, and they were part of it. What've they got to lose? It's not like they ever held a "job" beyond "Certified Vandal" "Serial Trespasser" and "VIVA" anyways.

Only issue is, how long will it take before Security is beyond understaffed. I wonder.

Hmm... On second thought, yeah. Let's actually remove Security. Since we all know that'd be the end result anyways, heck, and throw in Command too. See how well that goes. If Robustin Gangmode taught us anything, it's that it's a great idea. I dare you.

Let's become NoX!

Grazyn · Post by **Grazyn** » Fri Jun 16, 2017 11:36 am #309142

CPTANT raises an interesting point, there's no much difference escalation-wise between sec and a random crew member, except that civilians don't have a dedicated place to hold people. If a greyshirt gets pushed down by another guy, but manages to stun, cuff them and drag them around for 3 minutes, they can still be sure that the guy will try to start shit again as soon as he's uncuffed, only that this time they will go for lethal damage, and possibly spacing. This is why no civilian will ever waste time trying to detain an assailant even if they have access to stuns and cuffs, because you can already assume that even if you win, forcing them to stand still for a couple minutes won't make them relent.

Nilons · Post by **Nilons** » Fri Jun 16, 2017 11:48 am #309146

Kor wrote:
Sligneris wrote:"We should ban security for cracking down on greytide" and "We should not ban security for stopping other members of security from cracking down on greytide", more like Of course security is only being good bois in scenarios where they side with the greyshirts.
More black and white thinking and useless posts of imagined strawman arguments.

I don't think a single person in this thread has said the captain should not be allowed to arrest the assistant

Not the captain's job to arrest assistants, so he should have called security if it was as minor as it's made out to be, however if he was properly in the bridge in a grey shirt, what did he expect to happen? That could damn well be a traitor with an ebow in his bag, Ive had it happen to me where roundstart I started putting new clothes on as captain and someone bumrushed in through the maint door and revolvered me, then impersonated me. He wanted a reaction and got one, if you wanna scare the shit out of the captain don't be surprised when he gets scared and fights back. It shouldn't be precedent that you get a guaranteed 3 ecks dees out of fucking with sec for the sake of fucking with sec, which is what I think most people get upset at. The central problem arising here is that so many people fuck with sec and get the axe because they only joined the round to try to make sec and the heads miserable that's it bleeding into people who did nothing of the sort. Sec players are getting jaded and too used to greytiders fishing for reactions, when a shitlaod of people are doing x to make you mad or to yell at them so they can complain when you kill them for doing it twice instead of three times, I can see why, but not condone, officers get so trigger happy. The officer tased the captain because a greytider begged him for a reaction of any kind and got one. I think that ban is fucking stupid and ironic that its pax, but that the captain was well within his right not to doorslam ANY greyshirt, but to door slam one that's explicitly trying to get him to respond in a negative or positive way while simultaneously potentially endangering him.

Post by **Dax Dupont** » Fri Jun 16, 2017 3:24 pm #309205

CPTANT wrote: You can set precedents for punishments though. Having trespassing not mean death would be a good start.

It generally doesn't mean death unless one or more conditions are met:
- Rule 1 Precedent 6 applies: Players who attempt to break into the captain's office, head of personnel's office, or the bridge at or near roundstart for no legitimate reason put themselves at risk for being legitimately killed by the captain, heads of staff, or security.
- Rule 1 Precedent 7 applies: You may defend your workplace from trespassers who damage or steal property within that space with significantly greater force than elsewhere. If someone is severely disruptive and returns after ejected, this opens them up to "fun" of the creative workplace death variety. <-- For non-security
- Obvious things like running into brig where heads are present while armed deep in a rev round etc.

Slignerd · Post by **Slignerd** » Fri Jun 16, 2017 3:27 pm #309206

I'd say Rule 1 Precedent 7 generally does actually include security.

Post by **Dax Dupont** » Fri Jun 16, 2017 4:03 pm #309219

Sligneris wrote:I'd say Rule 1 Precedent 7 generally does actually include security.

Sorta? Just non/less lethal as security is generally expected to not go lethal due the tools available to them.

Armory is the exception, and in certain cases I guess it applies to the rest of the brig. Especially the less public areas like Warden's Office, sec office and locker room.

Oldman Robustin · Fri Jun 16, 2017 4:46 pm

I've been playing security more lately to see if I've somehow lost touch.

I'm still waiting for this mythical greytide to show up, a supernatural force that can only be stopped by summary executions and gulag sentences for minor crimes.

Or maybe, just maybe, we need to have security chill with taking people out of the round.

I've only had to deal out one punishment harsher than a 6m brig sentence in the last 10 rounds and that was when I quietly murdered a revhead in maint after the AI couldn't figure out how to teleport them to the Gulag. I had countless opportunities to kill antags and non-antags alike (bonus points to the admin who whispered, unsolicited, in my head that a non-antag I had arrested was extremely valid) and yet somehow I got through all the rounds just fine.

Slignerd · Post by **Slignerd** » Fri Jun 16, 2017 4:56 pm #309234

I mean, it's not a surprise assistant griefing isn't as severe when you don't play as one of the assistants.

Fri Jun 16, 2017 7:24 pm

Kor wrote:
bandit wrote:well this thread whiplashed from "WE SHOULD BAN SECURITY" to "WE SHOULD NOT BAN SECURITY" fast as fuck
"We should ban security for acting psychotic" and "We should not ban security for stopping other members of security from acting psychotic" are entirely consistent positions

Important post please read

J_Madison · Post by **J_Madison** » Fri Jun 16, 2017 7:59 pm #309300

i amn ot noyl drunk butr faitrly suck at th emoment.

lets end this thread

dronk the bommb

robustin is a liying little shit abotut his finctional escapades agisnt the good officers ogf the securityn team

sec gets aytawy with evertyithng and anything becaus we dont statrr shit fnr. we react to shit.

becaus e we react, it s not oru fautl. we did it in selkf defense. we never first used our weapons. everyithign was secondary.

if uyou feel you are getting mmistreded by sec. you fushould hancnge your ic name already. nobody wants to implant or relesae shits lioke robustin when tyh3ey commit "minor ic clinme". im gon a say it here. fuck robustin. arresting him and brigging fior 5 mins feels liek he is gonna stunprod killl me wikrth escaltion later.

witout me , ur rounds are finioshed. they are murderbone lings and traitosrs fuk you up.
no hmamter how badly i grtreat you, i am the reson roujdns are better.

i am thelaw
i ma hydge
jhury
executinoner.

Post by **Armhulen** » Fri Jun 16, 2017 8:13 pm #309304

J_Madison wrote:i amn ot noyl drunk butr faitrly suck at th emoment.

lets end this thread

dronk the bommb

robustin is a liying little shit abotut his finctional escapades agisnt the good officers ogf the securityn team

sec gets aytawy with evertyithng and anything becaus we dont statrr shit fnr. we react to shit.

becaus e we react, it s not oru fautl. we did it in selkf defense. we never first used our weapons. everyithign was secondary.

if uyou feel you are getting mmistreded by sec. you fushould hancnge your ic name already. nobody wants to implant or relesae shits lioke robustin when tyh3ey commit "minor ic clinme". im gon a say it here. fuck robustin. arresting him and brigging fior 5 mins feels liek he is gonna stunprod killl me wikrth escaltion later.

witout me , ur rounds are finioshed. they are murderbone lings and traitosrs fuk you up.
no hmamter how badly i grtreat you, i am the reson roujdns are better.

i am thelaw
i ma hydge
jhury
executinoner.

water, sleep.

J_Madison · Post by **J_Madison** » Fri Jun 16, 2017 9:12 pm #309311

Armhulen wrote:
J_Madison wrote:i amn ot noyl drunk butr faitrly suck at th emoment.

lets end this thread

dronk the bommb

robustin is a liying little shit abotut his finctional escapades agisnt the good officers ogf the securityn team

sec gets aytawy with evertyithng and anything becaus we dont statrr shit fnr. we react to shit.

becaus e we react, it s not oru fautl. we did it in selkf defense. we never first used our weapons. everyithign was secondary.

if uyou feel you are getting mmistreded by sec. you fushould hancnge your ic name already. nobody wants to implant or relesae shits lioke robustin when tyh3ey commit "minor ic clinme". im gon a say it here. fuck robustin. arresting him and brigging fior 5 mins feels liek he is gonna stunprod killl me wikrth escaltion later.

witout me , ur rounds are finioshed. they are murderbone lings and traitosrs fuk you up.
no hmamter how badly i grtreat you, i am the reson roujdns are better.

i am thelaw
i ma hydge
jhury
executinoner.
water, sleep.

wAtEr SlEeP

i slpilled the wiskey.

D&B · Post by **D&B** » Fri Jun 16, 2017 9:12 pm #309312

Hut post haste please

Xhagi · Post by **Xhagi** » Fri Jun 16, 2017 9:14 pm #309314

J_Madison wrote:i amn ot noyl drunk butr faitrly suck at th emoment.

lets end this thread

dronk the bommb

robustin is a liying little shit abotut his finctional escapades agisnt the good officers ogf the securityn team

sec gets aytawy with evertyithng and anything becaus we dont statrr shit fnr. we react to shit.

becaus e we react, it s not oru fautl. we did it in selkf defense. we never first used our weapons. everyithign was secondary.

if uyou feel you are getting mmistreded by sec. you fushould hancnge your ic name already. nobody wants to implant or relesae shits lioke robustin when tyh3ey commit "minor ic clinme". im gon a say it here. fuck robustin. arresting him and brigging fior 5 mins feels liek he is gonna stunprod killl me wikrth escaltion later.

witout me , ur rounds are finioshed. they are murderbone lings and traitosrs fuk you up.
no hmamter how badly i grtreat you, i am the reson roujdns are better.

i am thelaw
i ma hydge
jhury
executinoner.

I'm printing this and getting it framed.

Post by **Armhulen** » Fri Jun 16, 2017 9:47 pm #309319

tfw you're not only drunk but you're also suck

Nilons · Post by **Nilons** » Fri Jun 16, 2017 9:52 pm #309322

you go get em jmad dont let anyone tell you you cant

danno · Post by **danno** » Fri Jun 16, 2017 9:55 pm #309325

nigga did you just fake drunk on a forum

Nilons · Post by **Nilons** » Fri Jun 16, 2017 9:59 pm #309328

danno wrote:nigga did you just fake drunk on a forum

I don't think hes fake drunk

danno · Post by **danno** » Fri Jun 16, 2017 10:08 pm #309332

he misspelled every word but still managed to make completely coherent full sentences without any actual errors

captain sawrge · Fri Jun 16, 2017 10:58 pm

danno wrote:nigga did you just fake drunk on a forum

we all do this

Dr_bee · Post by **Dr_bee** » Fri Jun 16, 2017 11:28 pm #309353

Interesting that security isnt immune to escalation rules. Security's entire job is to handle workplace disputes via brigging. Brigging should be the IC resolution to the issue. you got caught and now you lost, drop the subject.

However with modern escalation rules, security doing their job and trying to end workplace disputes just opens them up to being assaulted even more because "muh escalation"

it is no wonder security just murders troublemakers now if they literally have a get out of bans free card to assault or murder sec after being brigged.

seriously, make getting brigged the OOC end of a conflict, if they come back and fuck with you after that, let them be able to be adminhelped for punishment as well as making them open to being perma'd or killed.

remove the incentive to fuck with sec after the brigging and you remove part of the incentive for security to just straight up murder someone.

This would also open up shitsec to punishment as well, if they went straight to murder without at least attempting to de-escalate via brigging.

seriously, we need some sort of fucking way to "de-escalate." Right now all conflict HAS to end in murder because of greytiding shits using it as an excuse to get their valids.

J_Madison · Post by **J_Madison** » Fri Jun 16, 2017 11:39 pm #309356

Dr_bee wrote:
seriously, we need some sort of fucking way to "de-escalate." Right now all conflict HAS to end in murder because of greytiding shits using it as an excuse to get their valids.

my descalation is implants, tracking, and/or with 50u chloral.

thats the only formm of desclation because its a promise of worse to come and a a declaration to behamme

behave or be killed, behave for i am able to watch you every step you take every move you make, behave for i can ltierally teleport upoin you.

this does strides in providing insurance and incenties to behave and desclation but it clearly shows signs of player flaw when a good third of my implantees activate the implant to sucide, or try to remmove the implant.

because they cant commmmit to the insurance and the descaltion. they want to escalte but they cant because of the implant ensureing they cant

Qbopper · Post by **Qbopper** » Sat Jun 17, 2017 12:06 am #309362

The NTR Times

LOCAL SEC PLAYER GOES COMPLETELY INSANE
Article by Cue B. Hopper

Jay Madison, a regular forum user and security main, was found dead in the FNR forums due to alleged alcohol poisoning. Madison's last post was an incoherent rant about security and how they treat players in game. He claimed to be "i amn ot noyl drunk butr faitrly suck at th emoment"[sic].

Forensic inspector Dan Noh went on record, saying that he believed "[Madison] just fake drunk on a forum"[sic]. Mr. Noh believed that the strange rambling was, despite the numerous errors, a completely understandable post.

Police Captain Saw Rgeuh was unimpressed with the forensic team's findings, and released a statement claiming that "we all [post pretending to be drunk]".

Of note is the fact that not only two hours later, another post was made from Madison's account, completely legible. Police are investigating whether or not foul play is involved, as someone may have retrieved access to the deceased Madison's account.

Slignerd · Post by **Slignerd** » Sat Jun 17, 2017 12:17 am #309369

JMad, you deserve a good rest. Go to sleep, buddy.

Dr_bee wrote:seriously, make getting brigged the OOC end of a conflict, if they come back and fuck with you after that, let them be able to be adminhelped for punishment as well as making them open to being perma'd or killed.

That one sounds like a pretty good idea actually - if you get brigged as non-antag, you stop causing trouble. That way security can actually rely on brigging as sufficient punishment and whoever got brigged gets to stay alive and get on with their round.

Pascal125 · Post by **Pascal125** » Sat Jun 17, 2017 12:17 am #309370

Dr_bee wrote:Interesting that security isnt immune to escalation rules. Security's entire job is to handle workplace disputes via brigging. Brigging should be the IC resolution to the issue. you got caught and now you lost, drop the subject.

However with modern escalation rules, security doing their job and trying to end workplace disputes just opens them up to being assaulted even more because "muh escalation"

it is no wonder security just murders troublemakers now if they literally have a get out of bans free card to assault or murder sec after being brigged.

seriously, make getting brigged the OOC end of a conflict, if they come back and fuck with you after that, let them be able to be adminhelped for punishment as well as making them open to being perma'd or killed.

remove the incentive to fuck with sec after the brigging and you remove part of the incentive for security to just straight up murder someone.

This would also open up shitsec to punishment as well, if they went straight to murder without at least attempting to de-escalate via brigging.

seriously, we need some sort of fucking way to "de-escalate." Right now all conflict HAS to end in murder because of greytiding shits using it as an excuse to get their valids.

This is literally all that needed to be said. And if i wasn't too busy getting aneurysms from the stupid replies in this thread causing me to meme out I'd have said it myself.

J_Madison · Post by **J_Madison** » Sat Jun 17, 2017 12:28 am #309372

while we're on the subject of sec.

I absolutely hate people that want to play sec but not have the accountability of being sec and not being antag

im looking at you, lawyers, hops, ect.

sure there's some legitimate players that want to fill sec roles, but why do people do this glory seeking?

they want to be sec, they want to brag about being robust, beating antags, and having that badge that says they played sec.

but they don't want any of the fefort and responsibility of being sec. they want to be antag. they want to be immune to ahelps in somme way.

hteres people that misrepresent the name of sec and play it both ways. you want to have the gun, the badge, the respect, the rank, and most importantly the valour.

but you won't go through the process. you want to pick and choose.

bandit · Post by **bandit** » Sat Jun 17, 2017 4:33 am #309414

j_mad have you considered you are a bit too attached to a made-up occupation on an imaginary space station

Pascal125 · Post by **Pascal125** » Sat Jun 17, 2017 5:19 am #309422

bandit wrote:j_mad have you considered you are a bit too attached to a made-up occupation on an imaginary space station

I mean, to be fair. Quite a few people are a bit too attached to having no occupation on an imaginary space station.

Larissa Mayrink · Sat Jun 17, 2017 5:35 am

Dr_bee wrote:seriously, make getting brigged the OOC end of a conflict, if they come back and fuck with you after that, let them be able to be adminhelped for punishment as well as making them open to being perma'd or killed.

Looks more than enough to fix most problems we've discussed. Also, someone make hardcurity happen

onleavedontatme · Sat Jun 17, 2017 5:50 am

seriously, make getting brigged the OOC end of a conflict

It is already is though. You're not allowed to "escalate" based off security punishing you for crime.

Can someone actually provide logs of a time within the last year of admins saying "well you brigged this guy so he can kill you"? I have not seen this since Stickymayhem quit, I'm not sure where people are getting this idea.

Grazyn · Post by **Grazyn** » Sat Jun 17, 2017 7:39 am #309442

Well there was the officer who was banned for defending himself against Pax who was trying to kill him because he got perma'd as non-antag (the officer went back to perma to free Pax because an admin ordered him to). I don't know how long ago it was, however, Pax is admin now, so we can assume this is his stance on "unlawful" brigging.

Dr_bee · Post by **Dr_bee** » Sat Jun 17, 2017 8:23 am #309449

Kor wrote:
seriously, make getting brigged the OOC end of a conflict
It is already is though. You're not allowed to "escalate" based off security punishing you for crime.

I dont think I was clear enough. Getting brigged should stop ALL escalation, even between two non-security people.

It would make calling security a decent way to stop "escalation" killbaiting. You call security and they come handle it, they make a ruling, and the person ruled against cant use the previous interaction as an excuse to murder anymore.

"Escalation" as far as my limited view is concerned, has done nothing but make people feel adminhelping isnt worth it. I have also heard comments that people do not typically adminhelp as much as they used to. I dont know what is causing the trend, but it looks to me like it is this escalation RP meme.

Segmented · Post by **Segmented** » Sat Jun 17, 2017 9:43 am #309463

Despite the meme-ness of this thread, this is an important conversation to have. Security can be incredibly overbearing, and often justify it with cries of "it's the only way to win!" Well maybe sometimes you don't get to win. Denying people their greentext is an unhealthy obsession that the server seems to have. Sometimes the antags win, and if you being polite lead to that then that is no reason to turn into Super Hitler. I used to actually respect and comply with Security until I had a fateful encounter during a rev round. Was just minding my own business as a Cargo Tech, hunting for boxes in the maintenance tunnels for points, heard some whispers of Revs but Cargo wasn't a hotspot so I ignored it. Wandered near the Security Maintenance area, got tased, thrown in perma, begged to know what was going on/why I was in jail, then summarily thrown out of the airlock to suffocate. Ahelped it and the admins told me that it was valid because it was a Rev round and nothing happened.

Maybe, just maybe, standards need to be enforced. If you have Holy Water, killing a Cultist is beyond reasonable escalation levels because you couldn't be assed to bucklecuff them for two minutes. If you are bwoinked after killing a non-rev and your excuse is "It was revs", maybe the admins need to tell you that sometimes you will lose, but that doesn't give you the excuse to be a dick.

Though maybe we could exempt Oldman Robustin.

J_Madison · Post by **J_Madison** » Sat Jun 17, 2017 10:38 am #309474

bandit wrote:j_mad have you considered you are a bit too attached to a made-up occupation on an imaginary space station

what, i cant defend my job and playstyle on a game i enjoy?

talk about taking a game too seriously you have people here that suicide because their snowflake character doesn't get greentext, entire metagroups that do nothing but metagame and erp every round.

ok, discount the fact that I'm a big stakeholder in the server and it's in my interest to ensure tg is headed in a way I agree with.

you have robustin a compulsive liar talking about how he's mistreated when you have legit sec players getting falsely banned.

I mean if I was a rolling stone and I could jump from one server to another like a lot of players and admins here, it's no big deal. but I'm not a rolling stone and I hold a stake in the server.

Sligneris wrote:JMad, you deserve a good rest. Go to sleep, buddy.

man my head was hurting all night. today is a brand new day.

Grazyn · Post by **Grazyn** » Sat Jun 17, 2017 10:44 am #309476

I don't think conversion modes are a good example of bad sec because they are clusterfuck TDM modes, and you usually have non-converted imperfect players messing with security during these rounds as well.