/tg/Station 13

Posted: **Mon Aug 11, 2014 3:46 am**

This came up in a ban request.

Blessed Heretic wrote:> English, unfortunately, had a clone backup, and immediately called for my head, and that he was an innocent. <
This is meta knowledge from after death. His clone back up should have no idea what happened to the original body. When you are scanned, you only have information from the time before the scan, not after.
As an example : If you are scanned at minute 1, and die at hour mark 2, you only retain the memories of what happened right as the scan hit . Meaning you don't know what you did, you don't know who did what if you are restored in this fashion later in the game.

And I was curious about it. In all the time I've played here I've never heard of this rule or anyone getting in trouble because of it. (It also seems pretty difficult to enforce.) Every time I've seen someone cloned from an earlier backup or after it was introduced, the autocloner, they've remembered who killed them.

Posted: **Mon Aug 11, 2014 5:05 am**

Lore wise, and it states this directly in game in one of the cloning manuals, that if someone is backed up in the cloning machine a object (Some kind of transmitter) is implanted into the subjects brain, this transmitter is constantly sending information back to the cloning pod right up until their death. Meaning the clone will retain all memories.

Posted: **Mon Aug 11, 2014 5:30 am**

Since I've posted this, further admin input in the ban request makes it seem like this may not be a thing.

Posted: **Mon Aug 11, 2014 5:35 am**

Previous thread on this topic, for reference: http://tgstation13.org/phpBB/viewtopic.php?f=33&t=781

Posted: **Mon Aug 11, 2014 5:38 am**

Ah, apologies. I hadn't realized there'd been a thread about this before.
*Edit:* Although it doesn't really look like anything was decided for sure.

Posted: **Mon Aug 11, 2014 5:59 am**

Xerux wrote:Ah, apologies. I hadn't realized there'd been a thread about this before.
*Edit:* Although it doesn't really look like anything was decided for sure.

Yeah, just a lot of yelling past each other while the headmins ignore it.

Posted: **Mon Aug 11, 2014 9:03 pm**

Aurx wrote:
Xerux wrote:Ah, apologies. I hadn't realized there'd been a thread about this before.
*Edit:* Although it doesn't really look like anything was decided for sure.
Yeah, just a lot of yelling past each other while the headmins ignore it.

One grows weary of this trend in policy discussion.

Posted: **Mon Aug 11, 2014 11:02 pm**

Cipher3 wrote:
Aurx wrote:
Xerux wrote:Ah, apologies. I hadn't realized there'd been a thread about this before.
*Edit:* Although it doesn't really look like anything was decided for sure.
Yeah, just a lot of yelling past each other while the headmins ignore it.
One grows weary of this trend in policy discussion.

Vote Aurx for /tg/station headmin 2014, and for somebody who'll make bold decisions!
Namely, the bold decision to tell everybody who voted for me to go fuck themselves, I ain't headminning two servers at once.

But yeah, it's REALLY troubling that you can't even get a headmin to so much as post around here, not even to "Currently policy is so and so". Especially on matters like this, where it's a rather important thing to know if you can or cannot.

Posted: **Tue Aug 12, 2014 2:33 am**

Aurx wrote: But yeah, it's REALLY troubling that you can't even get a headmin to so much as post around here, not even to "Currently policy is so and so". Especially on matters like this, where it's a rather important thing to know if you can or cannot.

It is troubling. The headmin elections are long overdue.

Posted: **Tue Aug 12, 2014 2:58 am**

Memories are part of the spirit, the spirit jumps bodies.

Posted: **Tue Aug 12, 2014 7:42 am**

I also support the "Only remember to the scan." The health implant can be justified as remote monitoring to prevent double-cloning anyway.

Posted: **Tue Aug 12, 2014 7:23 pm**

Pandarsenic wrote:I also support the "Only remember to the scan." The health implant can be justified as remote monitoring to prevent double-cloning anyway.

Posted: **Tue Aug 12, 2014 11:36 pm**

third

Posted: **Tue Aug 12, 2014 11:45 pm**

I prefer the "Remember up till death" one. Easier to remember, less likely to get people banned for accidentally acting on something their character shouldnt remember after being cloned. This isnt a hardcore RP server, and i feel like the other option is pretty hardcore RP.

If you want to go with the other option, then id suggest adding some big bold letters after someone gets their character backed up that they should only "remember" up to the point they were scanned and backed up. Maybe you already have this? I dont know.

If you went with the second option id most likely make a point to never intentionally get my data stored in the cloner. Seems like an annoying RP trap id rather avoid.

Posted: **Wed Aug 13, 2014 3:45 am**

I would prefer we stay with the current system as is, where you remember everything up until your death.

Frankly, it's easier for the players and admins to abide by this, and the alternative adds a unneeded amount of clutter to the game.

In addition, there is so much stuff you have to selectively forget that you can get banned because you forgot that you did not have that one item before you were scanned. Or any other minor detail people are bound to forget.

Posted: **Wed Aug 13, 2014 4:27 pm**

If there was a way to get your memories off of your corpse after you were backup cloned, I'd be for memories from scanning.

As it stands, it just falls into an RP trap where you're forced to die a second time doing the same exact thing you did to die the first time with little justifiable ability to change the outcome.

Posted: **Wed Aug 13, 2014 4:51 pm**

Steelpoint wrote:I would prefer we stay with the current system as is, where you remember everything up until your death.

Frankly, it's easier for the players and admins to abide by this, and the alternative adds a unneeded amount of clutter to the game.

In addition, there is so much stuff you have to selectively forget that you can get banned because you forgot that you did not have that one item before you were scanned. Or any other minor detail people are bound to forget.

My thoughts exactly. This is a thing for RP heavy servers.

Posted: **Wed Aug 13, 2014 5:06 pm**

BWOINK: Why did you make cablecuffs and a stunprod? You didn't know someone was gonna try to kill you again.

BWOINK: Why did you get internals before going to your office? You didn't know it was a vacuum.

BWOINK: Why did you go to engineering? You didn't know someone stole your ID and could be using it to free the singularity.

BWOINK: How did you know where to look to find your body?

BWOINK: How did you remember the captain's codeword for the ling round?

Posted: **Wed Aug 13, 2014 5:23 pm**

Raven776 wrote:BWOINK: How did you know where to look to find your body?

But this is legitimately terrible.

We already have restrictions on what you're allowed to know (eg You can't remember anything you learned while dead) Which is arguably no different in enforcement than what is being proposed here.

In any case, I'm in full favor of restricting clone memory to the moment of scan. If you were dead while you were scanned, you could remember everything you learned while alive.

Posted: **Wed Aug 13, 2014 6:42 pm**

Death is a new state of being. Its easier to figure out what you learned from death because you already think in ooc terms as a ghost.

When I play CMO or RD I get scanned randomly regularly thru out the round, most of the time It never gets used to the point that when I do die as a scanned person, My reaction is surprise when I start getting cloned because I Literally forgot I got scanned earlier. So what you are suggesting, is that now I would have to start picking my brain to remember not only when exactly i got scanned, but try to piece together rather or not X, or Y, or Z thing was before or after an event I generally forget about happening?

Now the reallllllly fun part:

How the fuck could we enforce this? Admins currently have no way of figuring out when that scan happened after the person starts getting cloned from it.

Not only that, but after a bit of time, It becomes impossible to figure out how someone got cloned. Most geneticists aren't going to remember rather or not x or y or z person came from a scanning they did of the body or auto cloning or even manual cloning of a scanned person. And their body not being in the morgue is not a dead give away either.

if they wanted to skirt the rules, they could find their body, give it to the chef, wait some time, then kill the person who killed them.

When asked, "I wasn't scanned, I got cloned from my body."

8 out of 10 cases, We would have no way of validating this.

Posted: **Thu Aug 14, 2014 10:39 pm**

Is it just me or do precautionary back ups seem like extreme power gaming?

I mean right now it is currently rare unless someone makes a public autocloner. If someone has it done to them more frequently though the expectation to destroy the genetics machinery, the research machinery and have removed any built cloners is a tad excessive.

Posted: **Fri Aug 15, 2014 2:55 am**

People who tend to get a backup are heads of staff and anyone near the geneticist when they are being proactive.

Any forced memory loss is just going to piss people off and admins may well not bother to enforce it. If your going to force this then we may as well force all clones to forget everything from the round.

Posted: **Fri Aug 15, 2014 7:27 am**

Steelpoint wrote:If your going to force this then we may as well force all clones to forget everything from the round.

Yeah, let's do this, forget everything upon clone no matter when the scan took place. I'd rather not derail this thread like the last one on this subject, so I'll just leave it there.

Most people seem to want memory til scan, which is fair I suppose. As long as "get backup at beginning of round, get murdered and gibbed, get cloned, rat on murderer who had no way of knowing about the clone backup" doesn't happen anymore, that's a net gain. Any other issues are secondary to that one concern.

Posted: **Fri Aug 15, 2014 7:33 am**

Let's just remove clone backups :V

Posted: **Fri Aug 15, 2014 10:05 am**

I would call a vote before doing anything.

Posted: **Fri Aug 15, 2014 10:06 am**

MisterPerson wrote:Yeah, let's do this, forget everything upon clone no matter when the scan took place. I'd rather not derail this thread like the last one on this subject, so I'll just leave it there.

Most people seem to want memory til scan, which is fair I suppose. As long as "get backup at beginning of round, get murdered and gibbed, get cloned, rat on murderer who had no way of knowing about the clone backup" doesn't happen anymore, that's a net gain. Any other issues are secondary to that one concern.

This. This is good in few different ways.

You can murder a witness and not worry about it ratting you out.

People will not be gibbed/spaced as much.

There will be more to investigating murders than "clone person and see what they say".

It will be just a lot easier to enforce and follow then memory until scan. Most people are scanned dead anyway.

Posted: **Fri Aug 15, 2014 2:05 pm**

Although once again it forces you to play is a very hardcore RP way. Forget everything you learned that round? So any hull breaches, dangerous areas, tasks given by heads, job-related information etc. Death would completely reset your round IC, whilst forcing you to not act of anything you know OOC. Id rather just not be cloned than deal with that kind of playstyle.

Why not just "Cannot recall events leading up to your death"? I mean, the only issue you all seem to have is people being revived and telling on your traitorous activities, so maybe the only policy in place should be to prevent that.

Posted: **Fri Aug 15, 2014 10:45 pm**

That would just be contradictory to the parapen and C4 nerfs.

Posted: **Sat Aug 16, 2014 3:42 am**

I'm preparing a report to the headmins on this and the previous thread, but in doing so I've realized that basically all arguments involved have been purely over interpretation of fluff so my report's pretty damn sparse. So if people would provide arguments not based in fluff, it'd make the report much stronger and much more likely to get a headmin in here to give a verdict.

Posted: **Sat Aug 16, 2014 6:25 am**

Frankly, I feel total memory loss is for heavy RP servers and doesn't fit with the play-style here, while up till scan seems an unnecessary burden on both players and admins. (MrStonedOne brought up good points on problems for admins.) A few problems I can see occurring under both is:

You're a traitor and have your objective on you. Someone runs up, kills you, then drags you into either maint or somewhere not open to general traffic and strips you. Someone finds you, drags you to medbay and you get cloned. But you're not allowed to remember where your stuff is or who killed you. How do you go about getting it back? Wander aimlessly until you find it, hope someone cares enough to tell you where they found you or hope someone finds it and doesn't look at the contents of your gear?
You're building something cool or doing whatever. You die, get cloned and are no longer allowed to remember what you were doing or where. What now?

A traitor murders you because you're their target but luckily someone finds you. You get cloned and are going about your business when they approach you again, now you have to feign ignorance as they make good on their second opportunity and dispose of you permanently this time.

What about people killed by random griefing or an accident? (Say your internals run out and you suffocate.) Now suddenly whatever you were doing before is ruined.

I don't see this cutting down on spacing/hiding/destroying non-targets much since most of deaths I've seen in the time I've played here hasn't been "That guy saw me, better kill him." but rather "I'm going to kill that guy because I can." Given the choice between being a blank slate or being dead, I'd probably just not clone or go straight to robotics afterwards. This really seems like it could use a vote, I could edit one into the topic but since the thread has run this long I'm not sure if that's a good idea or not.

Posted: **Sat Aug 16, 2014 8:12 am**

MisterPerson wrote:
Steelpoint wrote:If your going to force this then we may as well force all clones to forget everything from the round.
Yeah, let's do this, forget everything upon clone no matter when the scan took place. I'd rather not derail this thread like the last one on this subject, so I'll just leave it there.

Most people seem to want memory til scan, which is fair I suppose. As long as "get backup at beginning of round, get murdered and gibbed, get cloned, rat on murderer who had no way of knowing about the clone backup" doesn't happen anymore, that's a net gain. Any other issues are secondary to that one concern.

I wouldn't mind this. Or at least Bay's policy, which is you remember everything except for right up to your death. Obviously, backup clone memories only go up to when they were scanned. Someone popping out and immediately screeching "WAH X KILLED ME HE'S A TRAITORRR" is lame.

Everyone saying IT'S TOO HARD TO ROLEPLAY THOUGHHHHH is forgetting that this is already in the game, in the form of adamantium golems and pAIs. They're totally new bodies with no memories of the round's events.

People around here seem to think that "heavy roleplay" means "any roleplay". /tg/station13 being a "light roleplay" ie "no roleplay" server.

Posted: **Sat Aug 16, 2014 9:27 am**

I don't see a problem with ratting out the person who killed you if you get cloned. If some traitor goes out of the way to covertly kill and dispose of the body, only for the person to have had a backup and reveal the traitor who killed them; them's the breaks. I personally would rather not see this changed.

Posted: **Sat Aug 16, 2014 5:38 pm**

Cheridan wrote:Everyone saying IT'S TOO HARD TO ROLEPLAY THOUGHHHHH is forgetting that this is already in the game, in the form of adamantium golems and pAIs. They're totally new bodies with no memories of the round's events.

This is missing the point of why people don't want the "Only remember up to scanning entirely", and has nothing to do with it. The reason why people don't want it isn't because they won't be able to "forget" that they know things or some shit like that, it's because they feel that they won't be able to remember when specifically in a round the backups/events happened, and don't want to get banned or something because their department actually got bombed after they got scanned, or they call out a group of people as antags and forgot they found about one of them after a scan, or shit like that. Not to mention the fact that it would be utter hell to try to enforce. "oh, I didn't murder that guy that killed me, it was self defense, even though after I popped out of the cloner, I tracked him down and stalked him with a stunprod until he attacked me"

Posted: **Sat Aug 16, 2014 8:43 pm**

Konork wrote:
Cheridan wrote:Everyone saying IT'S TOO HARD TO ROLEPLAY THOUGHHHHH is forgetting that this is already in the game, in the form of adamantium golems and pAIs. They're totally new bodies with no memories of the round's events.
This is missing the point of why people don't want the "Only remember up to scanning entirely", and has nothing to do with it. The reason why people don't want it isn't because they won't be able to "forget" that they know things or some shit like that, it's because they feel that they won't be able to remember when specifically in a round the backups/events happened, and don't want to get banned or something because their department actually got bombed after they got scanned, or they call out a group of people as antags and forgot they found about one of them after a scan, or shit like that. Not to mention the fact that it would be utter hell to try to enforce. "oh, I didn't murder that guy that killed me, it was self defense, even though after I popped out of the cloner, I tracked him down and stalked him with a stunprod until he attacked me"

Again, forced forgetting is already in the game in other forms. If it's so impossible to enforce then pAIs and adamantium golems should be removed. Xenos too, they could go find their old body and xeno-whisper at someone to switch them back to it. Oh, and space ninjas too! They could easily hunt down their killer and get meta-revenge!

I really don't see how people not remembering a chain of events during a whole 30-minute round could be an issue. If you can't remember 30 minutes back you need to start taking some ginko.

Posted: **Sat Aug 16, 2014 9:50 pm**

Cheridan wrote:
Konork wrote:
Cheridan wrote:Everyone saying IT'S TOO HARD TO ROLEPLAY THOUGHHHHH is forgetting that this is already in the game, in the form of adamantium golems and pAIs. They're totally new bodies with no memories of the round's events.
This is missing the point of why people don't want the "Only remember up to scanning entirely", and has nothing to do with it. The reason why people don't want it isn't because they won't be able to "forget" that they know things or some shit like that, it's because they feel that they won't be able to remember when specifically in a round the backups/events happened, and don't want to get banned or something because their department actually got bombed after they got scanned, or they call out a group of people as antags and forgot they found about one of them after a scan, or shit like that. Not to mention the fact that it would be utter hell to try to enforce. "oh, I didn't murder that guy that killed me, it was self defense, even though after I popped out of the cloner, I tracked him down and stalked him with a stunprod until he attacked me"
Again, forced forgetting is already in the game in other forms. If it's so impossible to enforce then pAIs and adamantium golems should be removed. Xenos too, they could go find their old body and xeno-whisper at someone to switch them back to it. Oh, and space ninjas too! They could easily hunt down their killer and get meta-revenge!

I really don't see how people not remembering a chain of events during a whole 30-minute round could be an issue. If you can't remember 30 minutes back you need to start taking some ginko.

You're missing my point. It's not forgetting things that's the problem, it's selectively forgetting things being the problem. Being a pAI or a golem means you don't need to remember anything at all, this means that you'd need to try to piece together the round based on a certain milestone that leaves no trace in the logs and that most people don't even think about otherwise. Not everyone pays too much attention to the exact order of some things, because it usually doesn't matter, and I don't think anyone wants to get banned because "hey, you didn't meet the roboticist until after you got scanned", or conversely "hey, why did you go back to where your body was after being cloned?" when they legitimately just kind of wandered into that area. I'm fine with a simple rule of "if someone kills you, you don't remember them after being cloned", but full blown "you only remember events up to when you were scanned" is too significant of a change, will be pretty difficult for players to adapt to, makes too many grey areas for admins to really do much about it unless it's really blatant, and ultimately, probably isn't worth it.

Posted: **Sun Aug 17, 2014 5:32 am**

I would like to point out that currently, when you're cloned and any time afterward it pops up, such as disconnecting and reconnecting, you'll be shown a message saying

[Your Character Name]'s Memories:
Time of death: [time]

So following this logically, if you can have memories of your death time to the minute, why shouldn't you have the rest of the memories leading up to that death? Seems a little needlessly selective to me, to say nothing of the fact that trying to prove one way or another whether the information a person possesses or acts upon was from before or after scanning, and to make it policy that you only remember up to scan would open the door for making ban requests an absolute nightmare. Because typically the only people that know if someone was scanned and when are the scanned and the scanner, either nobody will try and call them on using metaknowledge from after scanning, or they're gonna call it on everything and good fucking luck for the poor sod that has to dive through the logs and then read every single interaction that character had in either direction to piece together whether they're using illegal knowledge or not. From the standpoint of already existing in-game, hard coded implementation of visible memory information, along with pure efficiency and ease of adminning without making it a clusterfuck nightmare, making cloned people's memories go up to death makes everybody's lives easier.

Posted: **Sun Aug 17, 2014 6:01 am**

We can always log this kind of stuff if needed.

Posted: **Sun Aug 17, 2014 7:15 am**

MisterPerson wrote:We can always log this kind of stuff if needed.

Log what exactly? Absolutely everything someone sitting at the screen sees or something?

May I ask, in all honesty, which admins are actually going to want to attempt to enforce no memories after cloning?

Posted: **Sun Aug 17, 2014 9:17 am**

Cheridan wrote:Again, forced forgetting is already in the game in other forms. If it's so impossible to enforce then pAIs and adamantium golems should be removed. Xenos too, they could go find their old body and xeno-whisper at someone to switch them back to it. Oh, and space ninjas too! They could easily hunt down their killer and get meta-revenge!

This isn't really a good comparison. With pAIs, xenos, ninjas and golems you are an entirely different character, so you can just blanket disregard everything that happened in your former life. You don't have to keep track of anything because there's nothing to keep track of. It's nowhere near comparable to what has been proposed, which is "I was scanned at 11:15. Anything that happened before 11:15 is fair game to 'know,' anything that happened after 11:15 is not." Even people acting in good faith would have a hard time keeping this shit straight -- and given that, admins would have a fucking awful time trying to enforce this even on a RP-heavy server.

A better comparison is rev. What people enforce is the obvious meta problems, i.e. you can't rat out fellow revs or heads, only the guy who flashed you -- but if people were being super-strict about enforcing this, then you cannot remember anything at all from the point you were flashed. (The message says as much.) No one actually enforces this, because it'd be a nightmare.

Posted: **Sun Aug 17, 2014 12:25 pm**

Also don't forget that before you get scanned you can remember the events before it anyway. The station has many tools to log a journal, or just keep scanning every ten to fifteen minutes. Sure, you'd never know who or what killed you, but maybe you could narrow it down. For example, say you're the CMO. Before getting scanned you and the geneticist have a conversation. The CMO says, "Yeah I'm going to leave notes in my office that summarize the shift." Other crew members could do this, or use the news casters, etc. In short, enjoy enforcing this.

Posted: **Sun Aug 17, 2014 1:04 pm**

The summary of this is that its not worth it.

You gain very little, force a massive amount of unneeded work on to the admins, and the only benefit is helping antags that fail to properly dispose of corpses and heavily punish everyone else.

You can say that this might encourage antags to not gib people. But even if that does happen (It won't happen) your screwing over everyone else and potentially getting people banned or warned for a slip of the tongue.

Posted: **Mon Aug 18, 2014 5:35 am**

A report on the previous thread and this thread up to this point has been created and delivered to the headmins. If activity in this thread continues, the report will be revised to account for such.

Posted: **Tue Aug 19, 2014 3:29 am**

Once again, props to Aurx for some important work. I'll definitely admit I had the wrong impression of this subforum.

Something strikes me as deeply wrong about asking players to pretend they don't know things when we don't have to. On /tg/, the clown can set up the singularity perfectly, solo, if he gets let into the right areas by the AI. The station's Janitor can make bombs, mix chemicals, and recognize parapens before having to study them.

But I get that assasinating somebody only to have them get up and scream that you did it even though, fluff or not, it makes no sense for them to remember that kind of thing sucks.

But I also think that's a danger antags should have to accept about murdering people.

But I also wonder about how possible it would be to enforce selective-ignorance, even if we had great code tools and logging to back us up on this.

But I wonder how many people will be banned over this rule, and how many of those will be purely accidental.

But I like the idea of remembering everything except how you died and who killed you and whatnot, it seems like a possible thing we could do since it's pretty straightforward?

I dunno.

Posted: **Tue Aug 19, 2014 5:40 pm**

Ehhh. Maybe a public pole could help a bit?

Posted: **Wed Aug 20, 2014 12:55 am**

Here's what I think.

If you get cloned from your corpse, you have all your memories from life. If you get cloned from a backup, you have no memories from the round. Period. Makes it simple for the admins, makes it simple for the players. You can justify it lorewise (because people care about the lore right?) by cloning from your body being a full recreation from the body. The backup is just your genetic information, and the memory is downloaded from what Centcomm has on file from who you are.

Does this seem like a reasonable way to handle things?

Posted: **Wed Aug 20, 2014 2:00 am**

Deuryn wrote:Here's what I think.

If you get cloned from your corpse, you have all your memories from life. If you get cloned from a backup, you have no memories from the round. Period. Makes it simple for the admins, makes it simple for the players. You can justify it lorewise (because people care about the lore right?) by cloning from your body being a full recreation from the body. The backup is just your genetic information, and the memory is downloaded from what Centcomm has on file from who you are.

Does this seem like a reasonable way to handle things?

Your solution is exactly what some people here, myself included, think is silly. Its an RP trap. You are forced to forget things and play in a way that is just no damn fun. Forget everything from that round? Just think of how you would need to act if you were restored from backup 1 hour into a long round. Can you honestly tell me you would enjoy playing from that point on? Id rather just suicide.

Posted: **Wed Aug 20, 2014 2:05 am**

Alex Crimson wrote:Your solution is exactly what some people here, myself included, think is silly. Its an RP trap. You are forced to forget things and play in a way that is just no damn fun. Forget everything from that round? Just think of how you would need to act if you were restored from backup 1 hour into a long round. Can you honestly tell me you would enjoy playing from that point on? Id rather just suicide.

Just think of how you would need to act if you joined 1 hour into a long round. Can you honestly tell me you would dislike playing from that point on?

Posted: **Wed Aug 20, 2014 2:41 am**

Just joining after 1 hour vs forcing a player to not act on anything he did in the last hour of his life. Completely different in my opinion.

Posted: **Wed Aug 20, 2014 3:39 am**

What about:

Scanned from corpse - you remember the killer and everything else.

Scanned from backup - remember non-crucial things like if some place has a breach or something, but don't remember specifically: where your corpse is and who murdered you.

Posted: **Wed Aug 20, 2014 3:45 am**

CreationPro wrote:What about:

Scanned from corpse - you remember the killer and everything else.

Scanned from backup - remember non-crucial things like if some place has a breach or something, but don't remember specifically: where your corpse is and who murdered you.

Honestly i think the "scanned from backup" suggestion would fit fine for both scenarios. No matter how you are cloned, you are allowed to resume your previous character adventure, but not allowed to act on any information regarding the events of your death. Lore-wise you can just say its from the trauma.

/tg/Station 13

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