Not allowing board moderation complaints in FNR is dumb

[CPTANT]

It only makes complains about forum moderation obnoxious and not transparent.

[Lazengann]

It is dumb

[DemonFiren]

Interestingly enough it only seems to show who resolved a report if it is marked resolved.
If it's simply deleted the person responsible isn't ever named.

NikNak could have avoided all this by simply deleting the report.

[Arianya]

we could have all avoided all this by not encouraging a shed-confined shitposter and a minimod in residence to gripe about literally nothing.

[Lazengann]

You know what they say
A broken clock hits the side of a barn once in a while

[CPTANT]

we could have all avoided all this by not encouraging a shed-confined shitposter and a minimod in residence to gripe about literally nothing.

It is not about this particular case, it has happened before and it has always been dumb.

[Arianya]

Even then, the forums are the remit of MSO, not the headmins.

So having it in FNR is relatively useless, and setting up a subforum/area for "forum moderator complaints" would largely be useless given the incidence of actionable complaints and might confuse non-regulars, especially with how in game admins are marked as admins on the forums even if they have no forum moderation powers.

Sure PMing MSO is opaque but its fit for purpose for 99% of forum moderator complaints, and its not like MSO is gonna change his stance on something just because its a public thread instead of a PM.

Slightly off-topic but why are people allowed to post FNR threads for FNR-banned users? If they're FNR banned its presumably for a reason, and I believe MSO has said in the past that FNR bans are enforced to show that you can't break the rules of FNR without a consequence (that consequence being that you're restricted to PMing headmins/admins if you want to appeal something.)

[Nilons]

we could have all avoided all this by not encouraging a shed-confined shitposter and a minimod in residence to gripe about literally nothing.

>literally nothing
>a forum moderator closing reports regarding their own posts

So you wouldn't complain if an admin killed you fnr then closed your ahelp because its literally nothing, right?

[Cobby]

You live in the forum moderator's universe now, Normie.

[NoH8OnlyLove]

You live in the forum moderator's universe now, Normie.

reeeeeeeeee

[starmute]

We need a board moderator feedback sub-forum.

[Qbopper]

it is a little weird that game moderation issues have a subforum but forum moderation issues boil down to "pm somebody"

[TehSteveo]

1. FNR is for in-game. So you are complaining to admins/headmins about a forum moderator when they have no power to do anything in regards to them. Hence why it's the wrong forum in regards to issues with forum moderation.

2. Feedback for forum moderation would really just be complaints. Opposed to in-game admin feedback where you can have a two-way dialogue, see active influence on rounds, and interaction in the game from an admin that may warrant positive or negative feedback that can either encourage or discourage certain behaviors from an admin. You don't really see much of a forum moderator until you see things deleted. In the end, moderation is censorship and censorship obviously isn't popular.

[starmute]

2. Feedback for forum moderation would really just be complaints. Opposed to in-game admin feedback where you can have a two-way dialogue, see active influence on rounds, and interaction in the game from an admin that may warrant positive or negative feedback that can either encourage or discourage certain behaviors from an admin. You don't really see much of a forum moderator until you see things deleted. In the end, moderation is censorship and censorship obviously isn't popular.

It can be misused however. To err is human and absolute power ect....

[Arianya]

Which is why you can PM MSO if you have a complaint

And if you don't trust MSO then... tough luck?? Not really a higher court you can go to.

[starmute]

Which is why you can PM MSO if you have a complaint

And if you don't trust MSO then... tough luck?? Not really a higher court you can go to.

From what I understand MSO doesn't run the forums, he runs the servers. THAT being said I don't think you should bother MSO with every little thing.

[TehSteveo]

Which is why you can PM MSO if you have a complaint

And if you don't trust MSO then... tough luck?? Not really a higher court you can go to.

From what I understand MSO doesn't run the forums, he runs the servers. THAT being said I don't think you should bother MSO with every little thing.

Quite wrong. He runs the site and it's his board. Nothing was ever set up to limit power that he may weld here like the gameservers.

In the end MSO holds the power to appoints the site administrators, who in turn can appoint global moderators and board moderators. If the moderators cause problems then it's upon the site administrators to look into the issue and can take action. Technically with global moderators, the group leader should be the point of contact, but that's HG who is inactive these days. Complaints can go to any the red names really and if you have a complaint against a red name that HAS to go to MSO for he is the one who appointed them.

[starmute]

Which is why you can PM MSO if you have a complaint

And if you don't trust MSO then... tough luck?? Not really a higher court you can go to.

From what I understand MSO doesn't run the forums, he runs the servers. THAT being said I don't think you should bother MSO with every little thing.

Quite wrong. He runs the site and it's his board. Nothing was ever set up to limit power that he may weld here like the gameservers.

In the end MSO holds the power to appoints the site administrators, who in turn can appoint global moderators and board moderators. If the moderators cause problems then it's upon the site administrators to look into the issue and can take action. Technically with global moderators, the group leader should be the point of contact, but that's HG who is inactive these days. Complaints can go to any the red names really and if you have a complaint against a red name that HAS to go to MSO for he is the one who appointed them.

Okay so what happened when we transitioned from the Old Forums (errorages) to these forums? Minus all the drama with the Aranclanos buisness I thought it was Rock who owned the forums and MSO who owned the Server?

[oranges]

It's irrelevant

The question here is not even who owns the forum, it's "who has authority over forum moderation actions in the FNR subsection"

MSO gives the admins nearly full reign over FNR and will not usually override admin action in FNR, so I would suggest that admins are accountable to the headmins for their moderation (within FNR) only and that should be a valid target for admin complaints.

The same applies to the coding subforum, maintainers have full forum admin powers there and they are accountable to the head coder for their actions (most complaints against maintainers should be handled by pmin'g the head coder)

For actions outside of those forums, general/NTR hut whatever, you should use the site/forums/wiki subforum and complain directly to the actual forum admins and MSO

Thoughts?

[TehSteveo]

Which is why you can PM MSO if you have a complaint

And if you don't trust MSO then... tough luck?? Not really a higher court you can go to.

From what I understand MSO doesn't run the forums, he runs the servers. THAT being said I don't think you should bother MSO with every little thing.

Quite wrong. He runs the site and it's his board. Nothing was ever set up to limit power that he may weld here like the gameservers.

In the end MSO holds the power to appoints the site administrators, who in turn can appoint global moderators and board moderators. If the moderators cause problems then it's upon the site administrators to look into the issue and can take action. Technically with global moderators, the group leader should be the point of contact, but that's HG who is inactive these days. Complaints can go to any the red names really and if you have a complaint against a red name that HAS to go to MSO for he is the one who appointed them.

Okay so what happened when we transitioned from the Old Forums (errorages) to these forums? Minus all the drama with the Aranclanos buisness I thought it was Rock who owned the forums and MSO who owned the Server?

I believe MSO gained server space awhile ago that it wasn't really needed and didn't make sense for them being separate entities. I believe Rock relinquished control, but he still maintains site administration as an agreement reached or some such. I'm not 100% sure on the details, but in the end MSO mostly runs everything that I've seen in regards to the forums and any changes we see usually are his doing. I can't give you a lesson in the history of everything in the forums nor do I want to really waste time over it as I was not privy. If someone wants to spend time going over it then they're more than welcomed.

All that matters is MSO is the one running the forums at this point so he's the end all be all.

[starmute]

I believe MSO gained server space awhile ago that it wasn't really needed and didn't make sense for them being separate entities. I believe Rock relinquished control, but he still maintains site administration as an agreement reached or some such. I'm not 100% sure on the details, but in the end MSO mostly runs everything that I've seen in regards to the forums and any changes we see usually are his doing. I can't give you a lesson in the history of everything in the forums nor do I want to really waste time over it as I was not privy. If someone wants to spend time going over it then they're more than welcomed.

All that matters is MSO is the one running the forums at this point so he's the end all be all.

Oranges is right though. MSO pretty much gives them a free hand.

[Cobby]

Your point?

[starmute]

Your point?

Imagine you have a system where the jailer mistreats the inmate. The inmate makes a complaint. The Warden of the prison doesn't care as long as the prison seems to work so the complaint goes back to the jailer. The system does seem overwhelmingly unfair and needs revision.

Aside from that Admins do seem to "circle their wagons" when one of their own is "attacked" by a complaint no matter how fair or unfair.

>In before "its just a forum of a game" or "its just a game"
Its a volunteer job where people (supposedly) act professionally. Admins expect players and users to abide by certain standards... why shouldn't volunteers who are supposed to be "pillars of the community" be held to higher standards?

[TehSteveo]

It's irrelevant

The question here is not even who owns the forum, it's "who has authority over forum moderation actions in the FNR subsection"

MSO gives the admins nearly full reign over FNR and will not usually override admin action in FNR, so I would suggest that admins are accountable to the headmins for their moderation (within FNR) only and that should be a valid target for admin complaints.

The same applies to the coding subforum, maintainers have full forum admin powers there and they are accountable to the head coder for their actions (most complaints against maintainers should be handled by pmin'g the head coder)

For actions outside of those forums, general/NTR hut whatever, you should use the site/forums/wiki subforum and complain directly to the actual forum admins and MSO

Thoughts?

I sort of agree with the sentiment. While global moderators are meant to be able to moderate the forums, it's best to not to go nuts with moderation in FNR and Coding sections as they have their own teams there that may find the posts fine or appropriate for discussion. I personally let these forums go as a global moderator unless violation is clearly cut and dry for me to do anything.

Now, the violation that riled up so many people was an admin/global moderator making a shitpost and closing the report about it afterwards abusing their forum powers. The situation I saw was resolved at the time with the offending post by the admin getting deleted as admins are not allowed to shitpost or pot stir in FNR let alone use their powers to help themselves. So I don't believe admin complaint forum should be used for complaint, as the board is dedicated to in-game issues regarding adminstration, but it would be valid for headmins to be notified in this situation as it is their area that they are given autonomy over in actuality.

Yet the point still stands for what everyone wants; which is surely revoking forum privileges as I'm sure nobody wants to hear they were warned/talked to or anything like that...it falls on red names which is what I was getting at. So in the end whoever you make a complaint to, it'll be headmins requesting if they deem it appropriate to MSO or another entity capable of doing so. If it was just a regular admin abusing powers; headmins would been able to deal with the issue alone, but global moderator complicates the matter as removing that doesn't remove powers that can be abused still. In fact, regular admins forum moderation powers were curbed sometime ago due to abuse with only Site Admins/Global Mods/Headmins holding the full powers in that area.

Edit: It appears NikNak's global moderator status was revoked.