Removing ears & tails

User avatar
FantasticFwoosh
Joined: Mon May 04, 2015 11:25 pm
Byond Username: FantasticFwoosh

Removing ears & tails

Post by FantasticFwoosh » #342538

Bottom post of the previous page:

Summarily where do admins stand about removing the tails (lizards & cats) and ears of specific races?

Q: When it is applied in punishment (catperson broke the law or abused their status as a non-human)

Q: Is mass converting catpeople to humans irreversibly (tails & ears destroyed after in crematorium) acceptable if they are deemed a risk/unfavorable by command, sec & AI?

Q: Is setting laws to target & convert when applicable non-humans to humans ok? This would mean anything from medical borgs syringing in human xenobio mutagen to surgically removing catpeople parts.

Removing lizard tails i see as inconsequential because essentially they are no less a lizard for not having it as much as they are whilst having it, and it often is favorable for lizards to ditch the tail. In catpeople its a entirely different kettle of fish in that they literally change states dependent on what areas of them is cut off.

So i pose this to you all.

Spoiler:
Image
Image
User avatar
cedarbridge
Joined: Fri May 23, 2014 12:24 am
Byond Username: Cedarbridge

Re: Removing ears & tails

Post by cedarbridge » #344051

Anyone who spells the word as "catboi" must be gassed.
User avatar
DiamondSentinel
Joined: Wed May 17, 2017 2:11 pm
Byond Username: DiamondSentinel

Re: Removing ears & tails

Post by DiamondSentinel » #344054

cedarbridge wrote:Anyone who spells the word as "catboi" must be gassed.
What about catboiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiii?
User avatar
cedarbridge
Joined: Fri May 23, 2014 12:24 am
Byond Username: Cedarbridge

Re: Removing ears & tails

Post by cedarbridge » #344060

DiamondSentinel wrote:
cedarbridge wrote:Anyone who spells the word as "catboi" must be gassed.
What about catboiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiii?
Definitely
User avatar
D&B
Joined: Mon Jun 13, 2016 2:23 am
Byond Username: Repukan
Location: *teleports behind you*

Re: Removing ears & tails

Post by D&B » #344062

What about catbo'y
Spoiler:
[20:26:02]ADMIN: PM: [censored admin]->[censored]: Welp. It was just a prank bro isn't a very good excuse when it comes to unprovoked nonantag murder, but since this is your first time doing it and you seem to understand the problem instead of a bannu I'm just going to leave you with a warning. Please PLEASE don't do this again in the future, as funny as crackhead broken bottle memes can be. Alrighty? Do you have any input on this?
[20:26:39]ADMIN: PM: [censored]->[censored admin]: Alright, no problem. I have some input. Fuck my boy pussy.
[20:27:06]ADMIN: PM: [censored admin]->[censored]: Okay then. Have fun.
[20:31:29]ADMIN: PM: [censored admin]->[censored]: Excuse me?
J_Madison wrote: that's a stupid fucking stat
you don't play, you've never played
lying little shit with your bullshit stat
fuck you
ColonicAcid wrote:and with enough practise i too could blow my own dick so well that only the gods know how it feels.
User avatar
calzilla1
Joined: Wed Jun 01, 2016 5:55 pm
Byond Username: Calzilla1

Re: Removing ears & tails

Post by calzilla1 » #344063

Cat goy
Life is too short for anything meaningful and too long for anything memeingful
Super Aggro Crag wrote: The best shitpost youll ever be responsible for will be your obituary.
Quality debate brought to you by ColonicAcid wrote:imagine having this little empathy

do you have autism bud? does your brain not see these people as humans? are they just a faceless statistic to you?
User avatar
Xhagi
Joined: Tue Jun 02, 2015 2:45 am
Byond Username: Aliannera
Location: Cat Place

Re: Removing ears & tails

Post by Xhagi » #344066

What about catbae? Catfam?
Professional Catgirl and Gayboy Supreme.
User avatar
Qbopper
Joined: Fri Jul 10, 2015 6:34 pm
Byond Username: Qbopper
Github Username: Qbopper
Location: Canada

Re: Removing ears & tails

Post by Qbopper » #344069

DiamondSentinel wrote:
cedarbridge wrote:Anyone who spells the word as "catboi" must be gassed.
What about catboiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiii?
my longest catboi ever
Limey wrote:its too late.
User avatar
Grazyn
Joined: Tue Nov 04, 2014 11:01 am
Byond Username: Grazyn

Re: Removing ears & tails

Post by Grazyn » #344076

catbois aren't canon and are a really small minority, can you even name a catboi besides Skylar?

Catperson race should be locked to female gender
User avatar
Bawhoppennn
Github User
Joined: Wed Jan 14, 2015 11:42 pm
Byond Username: Bawhoppennn
Github Username: Bawhoppen

Re: Removing ears & tails

Post by Bawhoppennn » #344228

Grazyn wrote:catbois aren't canon and are a really small minority, can you even name a catboi besides Skylar?

Catperson race should be locked to female gender
Maximum bait
I consider myself a /tg/station historian. If you're interested in the server history at all, feel free to ask me and I'll try and get you an answer! #ConcurForever

Image
<KorMobile> you're a hero

[21:20:53] <%oranges> Baw "has cute legs" hoppen
Image
DEAD: ADMIN(Owegno) says, "Nothing lewd happens in adminbus sadly."

[07:13:57] <Rockdtben> Keep in mind that I'm an extremely successful and wealthy male in his late twenties.

(F) DEAD: Professor DonkPocket says, "Admins preventchaos with good messages"

OOC: Pogoman122: Fun fact if someone trespasses on your kitchen just turn them into a nugget

Image

<+KorPhaeron> russians have no souls so magic enrages them
<+KorPhaeron> people who don't like rng are not from /tg/ and are likely redditors
ausops wrote:apart from this there is literally nothing more to say other than that this is the first thread in five years to have achieved something.
User avatar
Gigapuddi420
Joined: Fri May 19, 2017 8:08 am
Byond Username: Gigapuddi420
Location: Dorms

Re: Removing ears & tails

Post by Gigapuddi420 » #344315

I thought this thread might have been drama from a actual event but turns out it's just Fwoosh posting.
Sligneris wrote:
FantasticFwoosh wrote:catpeople are the most graphically disturbing race, they tend to abuse the giant serum and parade around the station with no underwear
Literally the only catpeople I've ever seen do that are just Sherrie and Katty, and even these two just on screenshots they took.
Wasn't on TG then.

I can't deny someone playing a cat probably did this at some point, but I've seen plenty human botanists do the same. Growth serum is just a regular old harmless botany meme and people like showing off their giant sprite and getting reactions.

Funny really, people get on about cats being attention whores (often they are) but the same behavior exists in all other races on the station. Difference is when you're a human attention whore you can shout 'AI HELP' instead of shouting 'Help Shitcurity' in lizard tongue. The whole reason non-humans often (but not always) help other non-humans is because they don't have the same protections.
Grazyn wrote:catbois aren't canon and are a really small minority, can you even name a catboi besides Skylar?
Madra.

In my experience 80% of catbois are fucking mental and the 20% is Skylar. I remember one time I met a cat boi who claimed to be the original catboi and that he would bully/kill any other catboi he met to assert his dominance.
Imperfect catgirl playing a imperfect game.
User avatar
Grazyn
Joined: Tue Nov 04, 2014 11:01 am
Byond Username: Grazyn

Re: Removing ears & tails

Post by Grazyn » #344317

I fully agree that catbois were a mistake
User avatar
ThanatosRa
Rarely plays
Joined: Fri Apr 18, 2014 4:07 pm
Byond Username: ThanatosRa
Location: Las Vegas, Nevada, USA

Re: Removing ears & tails

Post by ThanatosRa » #344496

What about catbois that just act like regular crew and dont call attention to their catness.
my forum gimmick is that no one knows who i am

gender is irrelevant NO UR IRRELEVANT
u a bish
y u heff 2 b med
User avatar
DemonFiren
Joined: Sat Dec 13, 2014 9:15 pm
Byond Username: DemonFiren

Re: Removing ears & tails

Post by DemonFiren » #344500

those are so much like humans that they don't need the ears and tail
Image
Image
Image
ImageImageImageImageImage

non-lizard things:
Spoiler:
Image
onleavedontatme
Joined: Fri Mar 13, 2015 10:26 pm
Byond Username: KorPhaeron

Re: Removing ears & tails

Post by onleavedontatme » #344515

Every time I read "catboi" I get closer to deleting cat ears
User avatar
Qbopper
Joined: Fri Jul 10, 2015 6:34 pm
Byond Username: Qbopper
Github Username: Qbopper
Location: Canada

Re: Removing ears & tails

Post by Qbopper » #344541

Kor wrote:Every time I read "catboi" I get closer to deleting cat ears
do it

end it all
Limey wrote:its too late.
User avatar
calzilla1
Joined: Wed Jun 01, 2016 5:55 pm
Byond Username: Calzilla1

Re: Removing ears & tails

Post by calzilla1 » #344551

Werent cat-people made to be a basis for tatoos? Why cant we replace it with those?
Life is too short for anything meaningful and too long for anything memeingful
Super Aggro Crag wrote: The best shitpost youll ever be responsible for will be your obituary.
Quality debate brought to you by ColonicAcid wrote:imagine having this little empathy

do you have autism bud? does your brain not see these people as humans? are they just a faceless statistic to you?
User avatar
Gigapuddi420
Joined: Fri May 19, 2017 8:08 am
Byond Username: Gigapuddi420
Location: Dorms

Re: Removing ears & tails

Post by Gigapuddi420 » #344623

With all the Fwoosh posting about cats aside, I take it we confirmed that removing ears and tails is basically a Rule One issue if done without some kind of rationale. Especially so as you would be detaining the player to fuck with them as you remove their features.

Personally I've always viewed the threat of it the same as a grievous assault, it is mutilation that might not leave you disabled but will leave you disfigured. When security threatens it as punishment I often take notice. I wouldn't accept a player randomly tasing, cuffing and detaining me for no reason even if they didn't remove my ears and tail, so it's just a extension of that to me only with the added 'they want to fuck with me because of my race option' instead of just 'they want to fuck with me'.

I suppose it's fair to say any situation where I could expect to lose a limb, I would also expect I could lose my ears or tail. So a fight that got out of hand or security going that extra step over a crime would make sense, providing the situation leading up to it was also fine.

I'm just confirming my suspicions here, honestly in the eight or so months I've played a catgirl, sometimes really obnoxiously so, I've never actually been in a situation where I felt I had to ahelp someone removing my ears and tail. While we're on the subject it seems like a good time to get a better idea on where it actually stands.
Imperfect catgirl playing a imperfect game.
User avatar
Steelpoint
Github User
Joined: Thu Apr 17, 2014 6:37 pm
Byond Username: Steelpoint
Github Username: Steelpoint
Location: The Armoury

Re: Removing ears & tails

Post by Steelpoint » #344821

Cat people were a mistake.
Image
bman
Github User
Joined: Fri Oct 14, 2016 4:55 pm
Byond Username: Basilman
Github Username: Militaires

Re: Removing ears & tails

Post by bman » #344879

cats are a furry fetish
Reece
Joined: Tue Dec 08, 2015 7:02 pm
Byond Username: Reece1995

Re: Removing ears & tails

Post by Reece » #344900

Catpepes are hot. I like slapping my redhot baton on their faces, shooting my taser across their little wagging tails.
User avatar
Bawhoppennn
Github User
Joined: Wed Jan 14, 2015 11:42 pm
Byond Username: Bawhoppennn
Github Username: Bawhoppen

Re: Removing ears & tails

Post by Bawhoppennn » #345084

I finally get it
I consider myself a /tg/station historian. If you're interested in the server history at all, feel free to ask me and I'll try and get you an answer! #ConcurForever

Image
<KorMobile> you're a hero

[21:20:53] <%oranges> Baw "has cute legs" hoppen
Image
DEAD: ADMIN(Owegno) says, "Nothing lewd happens in adminbus sadly."

[07:13:57] <Rockdtben> Keep in mind that I'm an extremely successful and wealthy male in his late twenties.

(F) DEAD: Professor DonkPocket says, "Admins preventchaos with good messages"

OOC: Pogoman122: Fun fact if someone trespasses on your kitchen just turn them into a nugget

Image

<+KorPhaeron> russians have no souls so magic enrages them
<+KorPhaeron> people who don't like rng are not from /tg/ and are likely redditors
ausops wrote:apart from this there is literally nothing more to say other than that this is the first thread in five years to have achieved something.
User avatar
oranges
Code Maintainer
Joined: Tue Apr 15, 2014 9:16 pm
Byond Username: Optimumtact
Github Username: optimumtact
Location: #CHATSHITGETBANGED

Re: Removing ears & tails

Post by oranges » #345514

Gigapuddi420 wrote:With all the Fwoosh posting about cats aside, I take it we confirmed that removing ears and tails is basically a Rule One issue if done without some kind of rationale. Especially so as you would be detaining the player to fuck with them as you remove their features.
Not really, a few admins have weighed in but the headmins have not said anything official, admin consensus seems to be you can't do it, or you can't do it without good ic reasoning, but the headmins haven't said yet
User avatar
Oldman Robustin
Joined: Tue May 13, 2014 2:18 pm
Byond Username: ForcefulCJS

Re: Removing ears & tails

Post by Oldman Robustin » #345530

As someone who just got headbanned for offering a bounty on tails (QM offered their own higher bid and I never got any offers) I can't help but marvel at how stupid this has gotten.

The inconvenience to someone getting their tail removed is literally less than "sec bucklecuffed you for a random search but forgot to unbuckle before running off".

At some point we also decided that asimov would continue to exclude mutant races and AI's could valid lizards/cats for even modest harm to humans, even if the lizard/cat was justified.

So what's the deal, we're ok with encouraging low-key synthetic lynching of other races but if someone chops a tail off then we need to start dishing out bans?

Can someone explain where "a couple minutes where your round was out of your control and someone made an aesthetic change to your appearance" became ban-worthy because I've got about 5,000 names for a ban backlog if taking minutes out of my round FNR is now a Rule 1 offense.
Image
User avatar
Lazengann
Joined: Sat Feb 25, 2017 2:26 pm
Byond Username: Lazengann

Re: Removing ears & tails

Post by Lazengann » #345531

Oldman Robustin wrote:"sec bucklecuffed you for a random search but forgot to unbuckle before running off".
I would craft and throw an explosive lance for this
User avatar
captain sawrge
Joined: Thu Apr 17, 2014 6:13 pm
Byond Username: Sawrge

Re: Removing ears & tails

Post by captain sawrge » #345538

Oldman Robustin wrote: Can someone explain where "a couple minutes where your round was out of your control and someone made an aesthetic change to your appearance" became ban-worthy because I've got about 5,000 names for a ban backlog if taking minutes out of my round FNR is now a Rule 1 offense.
2013 iirc
Image
feem
Joined: Mon Oct 13, 2014 10:13 pm
Byond Username: Feemjmeem
Github Username: feemjmeem
Contact:

Re: Removing ears & tails

Post by feem » #345540

Are you seriously asking when "Don't be a dick" started meaning you actually shouldn't be a dick to people?
User avatar
captain sawrge
Joined: Thu Apr 17, 2014 6:13 pm
Byond Username: Sawrge

Re: Removing ears & tails

Post by captain sawrge » #345542

feem wrote:Are you seriously asking when "Don't be a dick" started meaning you actually shouldn't be a dick to people?
It's bizarre that this is the defense he's rolling with and trying to push because there's a lot of precedent for forced surgery bans even predating gender reassignment surgery but I mean hell that alone got removed because it got to be too much of an issue to just have admins deal with it.
Image
User avatar
Oldman Robustin
Joined: Tue May 13, 2014 2:18 pm
Byond Username: ForcefulCJS

Re: Removing ears & tails

Post by Oldman Robustin » #345553

Maybe its because I've been around long enough and been told "IC issue" for low-end grief that I assumed we didn't ban for shit that takes a few minutes out of your round, because it literally happens every round.

I recall the gender surgery stuff was different because it carried rape/ERP vibes.

The general rule as long as I can remember was that you can do stuff that inconveniences other people for any reason you want, just don't make it a habit, don't whine if you get robusted, and know when to stop

A singe bucklecuff (~4m) during a calm round has always been my rough guidepost for the difference between "typical SS13 shit" and "ok this isn't cool".

If someone slip-cuffed me, dragged me to surgery, and then cut out my appendix and then let me go, I wouldn't even think to ahelp something that minor. Kor hasn't come out with any explicit position in this thread but I'll link what he said elsewhere:
OOC micromanaging and encouraging people to be aggrieved by every little slight is not healthy for the game long term.

From a personal standpoint it'd also actively make the game worse for me if an admin banned someone I was in a spat with rather than letting me have my insane IC revenge scheme or I was near AFK as security because the criminals had all gotten warned before I'd gotten a chance to solve a crime.
This is my position too. Maybe I'm reading it differently than Kor intended but cuffing someone and removing some of their pixels is a "little slight" in my book. When I offered payments for tails I knew full well that a cat or lizard could toss me out of an airlock. I kept my offer strictly for tails and made it clear that all laws were still in-effect and only non-lethal tail-related crimes would be forgiven for the successful delivery of a tail.

I felt (and still feel), if done in moderation that gimmicks like this are good for the game. Yes someone somewhere might have a round depreciate in quality but the fundamental design of SS13 is to introduce elements that will fuck up people's rounds in order to produce entertainment for the station as a whole. Of course it's dangerous when a player can willingly make themselves one of those elements but thats where "moderation" and "maybe instead of fucking people up, mess with them" have a role to play.

I think we've seriously lost our way if its come to "Ok we've coded dozens of antags, events, and monsters that will routinely kill you and remove you from the game - potentially for an hour or more - but if you keep someone tied up for 4 minutes, there's no way we can tolerate that". I think it's healthy for the game for there to be a level of unpleasant activity that sits somewhere between "Hitting someone with a bike horn" and "Mass death and carnage" but when we start saying "Yea man you kept that lizard tied up for a few minutes so you could take some of their completely aesthetic pixels, that's against Rule 1", then "hitting someone with a bike horn" and "cleaning the floor with water" start looking like the only 2 things you can do to someone without their consent. If someone does it too often, then we deal with it the same way we deal with all other low-key repeat offenders, warning/note and then ban.
Last edited by Oldman Robustin on Tue Oct 10, 2017 10:54 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Image
User avatar
cedarbridge
Joined: Fri May 23, 2014 12:24 am
Byond Username: Cedarbridge

Re: Removing ears & tails

Post by cedarbridge » #345558

Oldman Robustin wrote:A singe bucklecuff (~4m)
If you can't tell the difference between cuffing somebody to a chair and kidnapping somebody to perform amputative surgery on said somebody I don't know what there is to say on the subject.
feem
Joined: Mon Oct 13, 2014 10:13 pm
Byond Username: Feemjmeem
Github Username: feemjmeem
Contact:

Re: Removing ears & tails

Post by feem » #345560

Oldman Robustin wrote:low-end grief
>ordering the crew to arrest and perform surgery on the lizard crew

These are not the same thing.
User avatar
captain sawrge
Joined: Thu Apr 17, 2014 6:13 pm
Byond Username: Sawrge

Re: Removing ears & tails

Post by captain sawrge » #345562

Oldman Robustin wrote: I think we've seriously lost our way if its come to "Ok we've coded dozens of antags, events, and monsters that will routinely kill you and remove you from the game - potentially for an hour or more - but if you keep someone tied up for 4 minutes, there's no way we can tolerate that".
Again precedent for bans over forced surgery has been around since as far back as 2013.
Image
User avatar
captain sawrge
Joined: Thu Apr 17, 2014 6:13 pm
Byond Username: Sawrge

Re: Removing ears & tails

Post by captain sawrge » #345563

Choosing a fairly sizeable fraction of the playerbase and declaring open season on them isn't really a "healthy gimmick" nor does it encourage conflict it just kind of is griefing.
Image
User avatar
captain sawrge
Joined: Thu Apr 17, 2014 6:13 pm
Byond Username: Sawrge

Re: Removing ears & tails

Post by captain sawrge » #345564

Also trying to hide behind "they could resolve it ICly" when you are the captain and have an entire sec force behind you as well as several very dangerous weapons and powerful armor does not really work. The average player would be forfeiting their entire round just to make the gamble of taking you out and the most likely outcome is you kill/permabrig them and even if they succeed they are now on the run and don't get to continue their round.
Image
User avatar
Oldman Robustin
Joined: Tue May 13, 2014 2:18 pm
Byond Username: ForcefulCJS

Re: Removing ears & tails

Post by Oldman Robustin » #345570

cedarbridge wrote:
Oldman Robustin wrote:A singe bucklecuff (~4m)
If you can't tell the difference between cuffing somebody to a chair and kidnapping somebody to perform amputative surgery on said somebody I don't know what there is to say on the subject.
The difference appears to be about 20 purely aesthetic pixels, about as many as I lose when someone shaves me against my will.

You're right, I really don't know what to say because you're not making a coherent point. Also amputation refers to removing limbs, tails aren't limbs.

The only real difference between a 4m bucklecuff and tail surgery is that tail surgery takes 6 seconds to complete.

@Sawrge

Again, not open season, I reiterated multiple times that I would only tolerate non-lethal force and would only tolerate actions related to tail removal. Considering I was making myself valid in exchange for a shitty tail, and Centcom reiterated that mutiny would be acceptable, I felt that it was more open season on Captain than anything else.

But considering that I received no tails, no offers for tails, didn't witness any tail removal, with the halls being blood-free and the radio being relatively quiet, calling it open season is complete hyperbole. The admin had already decided to "let the round play out", so my question is if my statements were so prone to disaster that I had to be banned before any specific complaints had materialized, yet it turned out to be a non-issue... doesn't that kind of prove that I was right?
captain sawrge wrote:Also trying to hide behind "they could resolve it ICly" when you are the captain and have an entire sec force behind you as well as several very dangerous weapons and powerful armor does not really work. The average player would be forfeiting their entire round just to make the gamble of taking you out and the most likely outcome is you kill/permabrig them and even if they succeed they are now on the run and don't get to continue their round.
Then let that play out and then ban me for killing a mutant crewmember who rightfully rose up against my rule (not that I would actually kill them). I think I had 1 officer, I think they were braindead - sec did not participate in this "event" in any sense of the word. I did not ask sec to assist, nor did I retaliate against anyone who rebelled against my offer. I agree the "gamble" you reference might not be fair, but Kor expressed the opposite position that it really shouldn't be an admin's duty to interfere in the choice to gamble like that and its healthier for the game to let that kind of escalation exist.

Again, at some point we decided to let the AI literally kill crew with its default lawset based upon racial choices. So it seems weird to design the game that way, but when the Captain offers cash4tails suddenly we need to start tossing out bans pre-emptively just to make sure nobody suffers the horror of a 6-second surgery that removes some pixels from their character.
Last edited by Oldman Robustin on Tue Oct 10, 2017 11:22 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Image
feem
Joined: Mon Oct 13, 2014 10:13 pm
Byond Username: Feemjmeem
Github Username: feemjmeem
Contact:

Re: Removing ears & tails

Post by feem » #345571

Can you please keep your ban appeal in your ban appeal thread?
User avatar
oranges
Code Maintainer
Joined: Tue Apr 15, 2014 9:16 pm
Byond Username: Optimumtact
Github Username: optimumtact
Location: #CHATSHITGETBANGED

Re: Removing ears & tails

Post by oranges » #345575

protecting players who get mad cause you cut off their tails or ears is digg tier adminning, there's really no reason to not let it play out IC
User avatar
Lazengann
Joined: Sat Feb 25, 2017 2:26 pm
Byond Username: Lazengann

Re: Removing ears & tails

Post by Lazengann » #345578

feem wrote:Can you please keep your ban appeal in your ban appeal thread?
I can't peanut in that thread so keep it here
User avatar
Oldman Robustin
Joined: Tue May 13, 2014 2:18 pm
Byond Username: ForcefulCJS

Re: Removing ears & tails

Post by Oldman Robustin » #345582

I've decided to take up the cause as a clown player named "Tail-Takin Billy" who removes lizard tails by slipping them with a PDA and then using a scalpel and bedsheet (100% success rate honk) until my headban is over.

I look forward to seeing how someone can justify banning someone for basically a reflavored clown shaving meme that has been around for several years.
Image
User avatar
cedarbridge
Joined: Fri May 23, 2014 12:24 am
Byond Username: Cedarbridge

Re: Removing ears & tails

Post by cedarbridge » #345586

Oldman Robustin wrote:
cedarbridge wrote:
Oldman Robustin wrote:A singe bucklecuff (~4m)
If you can't tell the difference between cuffing somebody to a chair and kidnapping somebody to perform amputative surgery on said somebody I don't know what there is to say on the subject.
The difference appears to be about 20 purely aesthetic pixels, about as many as I lose when someone shaves me against my will.

You're right, I really don't know what to say because you're not making a coherent point. Also amputation refers to removing limbs, tails aren't limbs.

The only real difference between a 4m bucklecuff and tail surgery is that tail surgery takes 6 seconds to complete.
What is the fix when somebody shaves your head?
-You click on a mirror.

What's the fix when somebody steals your tail?
-You spend the rest of the round without a sizeable portion of your character.

These are not comparable beyond both being arguably cosmetic. The point is you're amputating a portion of a player's character and saying "Yeah but they don't need it to function so its fine." and that's pretty stupid.
User avatar
calzilla1
Joined: Wed Jun 01, 2016 5:55 pm
Byond Username: Calzilla1

Re: Removing ears & tails

Post by calzilla1 » #345591

Tbh, when I cut off ligger tails and said lizzer trys to dunk me, I am a-ok with that. I have not once a-helped over a ligger gettong retribution over it's lost tail
Also
>not doing xenobio and turning stinky liggers into glorious humans
Step up your game
Life is too short for anything meaningful and too long for anything memeingful
Super Aggro Crag wrote: The best shitpost youll ever be responsible for will be your obituary.
Quality debate brought to you by ColonicAcid wrote:imagine having this little empathy

do you have autism bud? does your brain not see these people as humans? are they just a faceless statistic to you?
User avatar
DrPillzRedux
Rarely plays
Joined: Sun Jun 29, 2014 9:45 am
Byond Username: DrPillzRedux

Re: Removing ears & tails

Post by DrPillzRedux » #345630

The main reason for adding tail removal was to fuck with lizards.

Why are you banning people for doing so?
thot_slayer wrote:don't be a degenerate online if you don't want people to treat you like a degenerate morty
bandit wrote:what is this

a correct post by pillz
User avatar
imblyings
Joined: Fri Apr 18, 2014 5:42 pm
Byond Username: Ausops
Location: >using suit sensors

Re: Removing ears & tails

Post by imblyings » #345733

I would rather our players not be conditioned to think they've been massively wronged to the point admins must get involved if a few pixels get deleted. Should it be considered baiting and starting an escalation at a reasonably high level? yes Should it be considered major grief if it's part of an overall larger attempt at griefing a player? yes Is it IC by itself otherwise? I can't find any reason to not say yes
The patched, dusty, trimmed, feathered mantle of evil +13.
User avatar
Steelpoint
Github User
Joined: Thu Apr 17, 2014 6:37 pm
Byond Username: Steelpoint
Github Username: Steelpoint
Location: The Armoury

Re: Removing ears & tails

Post by Steelpoint » #345735

I just want to know the thought process of someone deciding to kidnap a crew member and cut off one of their appendages?

For what purpose?
Image
User avatar
imblyings
Joined: Fri Apr 18, 2014 5:42 pm
Byond Username: Ausops
Location: >using suit sensors

Re: Removing ears & tails

Post by imblyings » #345737

May as well ask why people drag away arrested people from officers. It seems a lot worse than tail removal, especially given the active and dangerous effort required to re-arrest if the arrested guy is an antag.

Like, I could break into chemistry right now, break windows, throw pre-made bottles of chems at the chemists, or steal a dispenser and that would be objectively worse for the lizard chemist I'm doing it to compared to taking off his tail. The lizard chemist acquires the right to severely maim me or even kill me for either thing. If admins call the first one IC there is little reason to call the second one OOC.
The patched, dusty, trimmed, feathered mantle of evil +13.
User avatar
CitrusGender
In-Game Game Master
Joined: Tue Jul 25, 2017 8:34 pm
Byond Username: CitrusGender
Github Username: CitrusGender

Re: Removing ears & tails

Post by CitrusGender » #345738

imblyings wrote:I would rather our players not be conditioned to think they've been massively wronged to the point admins must get involved if a few pixels get deleted. Should it be considered baiting and starting an escalation at a reasonably high level? yes Should it be considered major grief if it's part of an overall larger attempt at griefing a player? yes Is it IC by itself otherwise? I can't find any reason to not say yes
Finally, someone gets it. If we keep deciding rules from a rule one standpoint, I think we're going to end up with a lot of situations that could have been ended ICly. I'm guessing this is going to go to a headamin vote then?
Image
User avatar
Steelpoint
Github User
Joined: Thu Apr 17, 2014 6:37 pm
Byond Username: Steelpoint
Github Username: Steelpoint
Location: The Armoury

Re: Removing ears & tails

Post by Steelpoint » #345739

Its an IC issue either way, if it happens inform Security of the assault, kidnapping and assaulting someone to remove their tail can be big enough crimes to throw into a cell for a long, long time.

I think it'll only become an OOC issue if someone continually performs the same action round after round with absolutely no justification whatsoever.

I still think personally that ripping off tails randomly is shit behaviour but my own personal standard is usually a slight step above the norm anyway.
Image
User avatar
imblyings
Joined: Fri Apr 18, 2014 5:42 pm
Byond Username: Ausops
Location: >using suit sensors

Re: Removing ears & tails

Post by imblyings » #345742

I fully agree with security being allowed to treat tail removal as a heinous crime, it's absolutely their freedom to make that decision in character.

Admins can always tell someone to cut it out or even handle it IC as a DM. Not everything has to default to notes or bans.
The patched, dusty, trimmed, feathered mantle of evil +13.
User avatar
Takeguru
Joined: Wed May 07, 2014 5:20 pm
Byond Username: TakeGuru

Re: Removing ears & tails

Post by Takeguru » #345763

Oldman Robustin wrote:Also amputation refers to removing limbs, tails aren't limbs.

"A limb (from the Old English lim), or extremity, is a jointed, or prehensile (as octopus arms or new world monkey tails), appendage of the human or other animal body."
Image
User avatar
Oldman Robustin
Joined: Tue May 13, 2014 2:18 pm
Byond Username: ForcefulCJS

Re: Removing ears & tails

Post by Oldman Robustin » #345766

DrPillzRedux wrote:The main reason for adding tail removal was to fuck with lizards.

Why are you banning people for doing so?
Just to add, this was literally my understanding of the feature.

It was a meme, we let people make fucking weapons out of tails and it takes 6 seconds to remove one using publicly available items (well except box's cargolathe).

Color me surprised when I finally decide to get involved in race stuff and suddenly we've got lizard/cat acitvists here comparing it to executions and amputations.

As for the argument "well its harder to replace liz tails than shaved heads", since when did we take appearance so seriously here and why would it ever be bannable to fuck with someone's appearance. Last night a non-antag viro released a Revitiligo virus for shits and giggles, thats just what SS13 is... admins should never be involved in "SO AND SO MADE ME LOOK DIFFERENT THAN I WANTED TO".
Image
User avatar
Oldman Robustin
Joined: Tue May 13, 2014 2:18 pm
Byond Username: ForcefulCJS

Re: Removing ears & tails

Post by Oldman Robustin » #345768

Takeguru wrote:
Oldman Robustin wrote:Also amputation refers to removing limbs, tails aren't limbs.

"A limb (from the Old English lim), or extremity, is a jointed, or prehensile (as octopus arms or new world monkey tails), appendage of the human or other animal body."
And here I thought I did my due diligence checking the 3 largest english dictionaries before posting so that it would prevent someone from shitposting about tails being limbs using some weak ass source like thefreedictionary.com
Image
User avatar
iamgoofball
Github User
Joined: Fri Apr 18, 2014 5:50 pm
Byond Username: Iamgoofball
Github Username: Iamgoofball

Re: Removing ears & tails

Post by iamgoofball » #345769

I should re-add UI+UE syringes
Locked

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users