Moderators: In-Game Game Master, In-Game Head Admins
feem wrote:Are notes a list of things that have occurred?
Notes should be a way to write down player behavior, occurences that demonstrate this, and other relevant information. Writing down player behavior should probably contain evidence,
ie saying you observed it vs another player.
Are notes a list of reasons to ban you?
Depends on the situation. If a player does something bad and he has a lot of recent notes for it then ban him. It's also a good way to write down that a player has been talked to about something, otherwise we'd infinitely give "first warnings" to a player about IC in OOC until someone wises up and starts banning him. This question reminds me of a policy thread I saw a long time ago asking how many notes does it take for a permaban, and the answer is no set number. Repukan has 60+, I've seen perma'd people with very few notes.
Are notes stupid?
No, they're a useful adminning tool and only become stupid when they're used for memes too much.
Should players be held accountable for their actions?
Yes, but after a certain point, depending on what it is, it needs to be taken less into account. Not going to extend a guy's ban just because of a six month old overescalation note. Metacomms/crashing the server/rule 8 violations should definitely warrant harsher a harsher punishment no matter how much time has passed.
Should admins leave fewer notes?
Admins should look at the situation and decide if it actually warrants a note, if they're on the fence then just make the note as detailed as possible to accurately describe the situation so other admins can decide whether it's warranted/not and take it into account when dealing with the player in the future.
Should admins leave better notes?
Yes, definitely, and I think it's even a rule in admin policy to detail your notes a good bit. I try to accurately reflect the situation instead of making short notes such as "banned- rule 1 violation"
Do you trust players not to be shitheads if notes are only placed for bans?
Admins wouldn't pick up on the "line toeing" behavior which is considered unbannable unless they make their own notes file, which will probably happen, so may as well put it on the server accessible by all for transparency.
Do you trust admins to ban only 'the right people' if notes aren't taken down about player behavior?
Depends on the attitude. I don't know all the admins enough to give a good answer for this.
Lazengann wrote:Notes are just bans that expire in 0 seconds
feem wrote:Are notes a list of things that have occurred?
Are notes a list of reasons to ban you?
Are notes stupid?
Should players be held accountable for their actions?
Should admins leave fewer notes?
Should admins leave better notes?
Do you trust players not to be shitheads if notes are only placed for bans?
Do you trust admins to ban only 'the right people' if notes aren't taken down about player behavior?
feem wrote:Are notes a list of things that have occurred?
Yes
Are notes a list of reasons to ban you?
Yes
Are notes stupid?
Yes
Should players be held accountable for their actions?
Yes
Should admins leave fewer notes?
Yes
Should admins leave better notes?
Yes
Do you trust players not to be shitheads if notes are only placed for bans?
No
Do you trust admins to ban only 'the right people' if notes aren't taken down about player behavior?
Yes
thot_slayer wrote:don't be a degenerate online if you don't want people to treat you like a degenerate morty
bandit wrote:what is this
a correct post by pillz
Grazyn wrote:Then make it official and make sure all admins are on the same level about this policy, you're headmin now
bandit wrote:Some things players may not be aware of:
-[*]Not every interaction with an admin results in a note. I'd say maybe about one-third do. As a rule of thumb, if something gets called an IC issue that also generally means there isn't going to be a note about it.
bandit wrote:Some things players may not be aware of:
-[*]Not every interaction with an admin results in a note. I'd say maybe about one-third do. As a rule of thumb, if something gets called an IC issue that also generally means there isn't going to be a note about it.
-[*]Notes are not inevitable. I offer myself up as an example. I started playing here in 2013 (fuck myself) and was a shitter playstyle-wise in 2013 so I accumulated some notes in that time. Something like 6 in three months. In 2014-15 I became less of a shitter, and in that entire span of two years I accumulated something like 3 notes (some were meme notes, two were positive notes). There are plenty of long-term players with few notes, it's just that the people who accumulate a lot of them tend to be the loudest.
-[*]Positive notes exist. Admins should probably give out more of them but I try to when I have a reason. Positive comments in notes also exist. I have given notes with comments to the effect of "had a good attitude in adminPMs" to let future admins know someone is not a shitter.
DrPillzRedux wrote:I think they should drop off completely after a certain amount of time, like with traffic tickets. They're to find patterns of behavior. If it's been years and the persons behavior changed, why keep them?
I mean I can barely remember anything pre-2015 and even that's shady.
Jack7D1 wrote:After reviewing the history of our previous host(s) I conclude that MSO is our most favorable host to date. To remove him would be very unwise.
Jack7D1 wrote:I seem to be mistaken
MrStonedOne wrote:DrPillzRedux wrote:I think they should drop off completely after a certain amount of time, like with traffic tickets. They're to find patterns of behavior. If it's been years and the persons behavior changed, why keep them?
I mean I can barely remember anything pre-2015 and even that's shady.
They still exist, but notes fade out to indicate older notes in the admin's view. At 90 days they start getting faded and grey and by a year old they are fully invisible unless the admin presses a button.
This is a 30 to 90 preview from when I first made the pr.
AdAstraPerAspera wrote:Is it policy to ignore faded out notes? If not then it's irrelevant since admins will hit that button.
Often due to the fact good behavior noted really translates to nothing, may not be read, and if it's mixed in with negative notes will be interrupted as "Wow, a lot notes here...gonna apply a long ban." I harped on actually reading through notes and looking at the time when notes are applied before making judgement on to apply a ban or not; if so for how long that is appropriate so people don't get punished for how they acted in 2015. I like the idea of having good notes and have left some on people but I've been hesitant due to the above reason to really do it further in the past.Kor wrote:bandit wrote:Some things players may not be aware of:
-[*]Not every interaction with an admin results in a note. I'd say maybe about one-third do. As a rule of thumb, if something gets called an IC issue that also generally means there isn't going to be a note about it.
-[*]Notes are not inevitable. I offer myself up as an example. I started playing here in 2013 (fuck myself) and was a shitter playstyle-wise in 2013 so I accumulated some notes in that time. Something like 6 in three months. In 2014-15 I became less of a shitter, and in that entire span of two years I accumulated something like 3 notes (some were meme notes, two were positive notes). There are plenty of long-term players with few notes, it's just that the people who accumulate a lot of them tend to be the loudest.
-[*]Positive notes exist. Admins should probably give out more of them but I try to when I have a reason. Positive comments in notes also exist. I have given notes with comments to the effect of "had a good attitude in adminPMs" to let future admins know someone is not a shitter.
I'm going to go out on a limb and say positive notes (not counting antag tokens) are maybe .1% of notes given, so rare as to be essentially anecdotal for any discussion of the system.
I don't think they're really a fix either because showing good behavior generally means not being noticed by admins.
ShadowDimentio wrote:Admins, for better or worse, don't really give a shit about good behavior. They don't care about the fifty rounds you were a good player, they care about the one time you spaced the clown because you were bored/mad/drunk/dumb/tired, hence why good notes should be a thing and notes should be taken with the tiniest grains of salt.
ShadowDimentio wrote:Admins, for better or worse, don't really give a shit about good behavior. They don't care about the fifty rounds you were a good player, they care about the one time you spaced the clown because you were bored/mad/drunk/dumb/tired, hence why good notes should be a thing and notes should be taken with the tiniest grains of salt.
cedarbridge wrote:At best, lazy "count the notes without reading any of them" adminship may be a problem but I believe that is isolated to specific cases.
IcePacks wrote:>all you have is a taser and the cold realization that you're a haphazard bandaid over a problem that may or may not exist, applied by someone who doesn't know or care enough about their job to do it properly
ShadowDimentio wrote:Admins, for better or worse, don't really give a shit about good behavior. They don't care about the fifty rounds you were a good player, they care about the one time you spaced the clown because you were bored/mad/drunk/dumb/tired, hence why good notes should be a thing and notes should be taken with the tiniest grains of salt.
Hathkar wrote:I don't suppose admins still start adding notes for good behavior more often now?
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