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Fake antags

PostPosted: Sun Nov 05, 2017 2:20 pm
by naltronix
The previous round on bagil (78380) there were a couple of people acting like antags
e.g flashing with a regular flash as non sec, carrying around oxygen canisters painted to be freon (that happened)
it actually got the real revs outed and fucked the round
people that do this, should they be antag banned/banned for doing this shit?

Re: Fake antags

PostPosted: Sun Nov 05, 2017 6:48 pm
by DemonFiren
sure, let's ban metabreaking

Re: Fake antags

PostPosted: Sun Nov 05, 2017 7:03 pm
by BeeSting12
Having security arm up roundstart almost every round because someone is running around flashing people and shouting viva isn't funny.

Re: Fake antags

PostPosted: Sun Nov 05, 2017 7:10 pm
by cedarbridge
Ban the chaplain for using the Changeling arm
Ban anyone not an antag from touching a flash
Ban anyone who makes contact with sec and isn't an antag


I'll agree that chucklefucking around pretending to be a round-antag as a round gimmick isn't especially entertaining, but I also recognize that my own fun is not what dictates fun for others. I'm inclined to allow more play that is not "sit behind console and make no social contact with others" and this certainly qualifies.

Re: Fake antags

PostPosted: Sun Nov 05, 2017 7:27 pm
by Anonmare
I actually use the flash trick to get myself implanted as a cultist so that nobody thinks to holy water me

Re: Fake antags

PostPosted: Sun Nov 05, 2017 7:42 pm
by naltronix
im not talking about people using antag items, im talking about people who make themselves look like antags by flashing everyone they see, for the whole round
like in revs flashers can be really annoying because its really easy to out real revs because the people who get flashed by the revhead dont scream fuck you

Re: Fake antags

PostPosted: Sun Nov 05, 2017 8:27 pm
by Lazengann
You can just de limb them

Re: Fake antags

PostPosted: Sun Nov 05, 2017 8:56 pm
by RogueSteampunker
If they aren't harming people directly, then what point is there to ban them? They know the consequences for acting like an antag nonharmfully, and the line between IC punishment and a ban.

Re: Fake antags

PostPosted: Sun Nov 05, 2017 9:06 pm
by BeeSting12
They should only be banned if they ahelp when theyre killed

Re: Fake antags

PostPosted: Sun Nov 05, 2017 9:49 pm
by RandomMarine
RogueSteampunker wrote:If they aren't harming people directly, then what point is there to ban them? They know the consequences for acting like an antag nonharmfully, and the line between IC punishment and a ban.

BeeSting12 wrote:They should only be banned if they ahelp when theyre killed

The argument being made here is that someone's antag round got ruined because someone pretended to be a retarded headrev so security cracked down and got the real headrevs.
So this thread got made because obviously antag rolls are sacred and absolutely every bad thing that could possibly happen outside of their control must be stripped from the game.

Re: Fake antags

PostPosted: Sun Nov 05, 2017 9:53 pm
by Not-Dorsidarf
If someone is just doing this every round all round for an extended period they should probbably stop, but sec catching the revs because the clown pretended to convert the mine in front of the HOS is a classic

Re: Fake antags

PostPosted: Sun Nov 05, 2017 9:54 pm
by iamgoofball
time to remove metabreakers i guess

Re: Fake antags

PostPosted: Sun Nov 05, 2017 9:55 pm
by oranges
imagine being such a bad head rev you have to blame your loss on other people.

Re: Fake antags

PostPosted: Sun Nov 05, 2017 9:56 pm
by onleavedontatme
RandomMarine wrote:
RogueSteampunker wrote:If they aren't harming people directly, then what point is there to ban them? They know the consequences for acting like an antag nonharmfully, and the line between IC punishment and a ban.

BeeSting12 wrote:They should only be banned if they ahelp when theyre killed

The argument being made here is that someone's antag round got ruined because someone pretended to be a retarded headrev so security cracked down and got the real headrevs.
So this thread got made because obviously antag rolls are sacred and absolutely every bad thing that could possibly happen outside of their control must be stripped from the game.


Feels like kind of a loophole though that if you randomly killed an antag FNR you'd be banned but if you randomly bait security into arresting the entire crew and getting every antag killed before they even do anything its an IC issue. The reason we have rules against random searches is because the game would be mind numbingly boring if security arresting everyone preemptively was normal behavior. Antags would never get to do anything and nothing bad would ever happen.

iamgoofball wrote:time to remove metabreakers i guess


Metabreakers are supposed to add confusion and cover for the antagonists and break up the flow of rounds to keep them entertaining, not give sec the excuse to arrest and search everyone and kill the cult in the first ten minutes because someone flashed someone else and now we're stuck in extended.

Re: Fake antags

PostPosted: Sun Nov 05, 2017 10:08 pm
by ShadowDimentio
Act like an antag, get treated like an antag.

And sec who gear up before the warden/HoS has seen a deconversion message is shit.

Re: Fake antags

PostPosted: Sun Nov 05, 2017 10:15 pm
by oranges
Kor is right though

Re: Fake antags

PostPosted: Mon Nov 06, 2017 3:44 am
by PKPenguin321
IMO, this should be treated like similar gimmicks and only be punishable if it's done too frequently

Re: Fake antags

PostPosted: Mon Nov 06, 2017 4:20 am
by feem
PKPenguin321 wrote:IMO, this should be treated like similar gimmicks and only be punishable if it's done too frequently

noot noot the penguin is right

if you're doing this every round with the intention of fucking shit up then get the fuck out :singulo:

if you do this with the intent of ahelping whoever kills you then get the fuck out :roll:

if your non-antag non-crime spree ends with you dying horribly and you're okay with that then :popcorn:

Re: Fake antags

PostPosted: Mon Nov 06, 2017 12:49 pm
by Gun Hog
Where would the act of dropping several flashes in the hallways for :unknownman: greyscum :unknownman: to abuse fall?

Re: Fake antags

PostPosted: Mon Nov 06, 2017 2:36 pm
by Qbopper
Gun Hog wrote:Where would the act of dropping several flashes in the hallways for :unknownman: greyscum :unknownman: to abuse fall?


bad manners

Re: Fake antags

PostPosted: Mon Nov 06, 2017 2:43 pm
by Anonmare
Same as leaving floor pills full of mindbreaker toxin labelled "Yummy surprise". The fault of the greyshit as the blame rightfully belongs

Re: Fake antags

PostPosted: Mon Nov 06, 2017 2:52 pm
by Nilons
If players were told to ahelp it but that it's not explicitly against the rules it would probably help keep track of who's doing it repeatedly while still letting people do it every now and then

Re: Fake antags

PostPosted: Mon Nov 06, 2017 2:59 pm
by Saegrimr
This was part of my reason whining about flashes for so long. More common use no longer means flash = ITS REV

Re: Fake antags

PostPosted: Mon Nov 06, 2017 3:11 pm
by captain sawrge
Destroy

Re: Fake antags

PostPosted: Mon Nov 06, 2017 4:24 pm
by Qbopper
Saegrimr wrote:This was part of my reason whining about flashes for so long. More common use no longer means flash = ITS REV


yeah it's pretty unfortunate that flashes are otherwise pretty useless, if you see someone using one it's likely either revs or some shitter trying to make people think it's revs

are they still good vs borgs?

Re: Fake antags

PostPosted: Mon Nov 06, 2017 4:24 pm
by cedarbridge
Gun Hog wrote:Where would the act of dropping several flashes in the hallways for :unknownman: greyscum :unknownman: to abuse fall?

Littering

Qbopper wrote:are they still good vs borgs?

You can dunk a borg in the stun time from one flash. Two if you're unrobust. With the secborg trial going, this is an even bigger deal and should increase the value of flashes across the board.

Re: Fake antags

PostPosted: Mon Nov 06, 2017 5:03 pm
by Rustledjimm
I'm just posting to say I agree with PKP's reasoning that this should be treated similar to certain gimmicks. If it's done too often then it should be warned/punished.

Though my own opinion on rev is that flashes are perhaps too... overt? They aren't common to be carried around normally and maybe a more common item should be looked at for converting, but perhaps the secborg trial will change that as had been mentioned.

Re: Fake antags

PostPosted: Mon Nov 06, 2017 6:35 pm
by Qbopper
cedarbridge wrote:
Qbopper wrote:are they still good vs borgs?

You can dunk a borg in the stun time from one flash. Two if you're unrobust. With the secborg trial going, this is an even bigger deal and should increase the value of flashes across the board.


I remembered this being the case before but wasn't sure it was still in

Rustledjimm wrote:I'm just posting to say I agree with PKP's reasoning that this should be treated similar to certain gimmicks. If it's done too often then it should be warned/punished.

Though my own opinion on rev is that flashes are perhaps too... overt? They aren't common to be carried around normally and maybe a more common item should be looked at for converting, but perhaps the secborg trial will change that as had been mentioned.


make it so revs get spraycans and if you spray it in someones mouth it makes them yell WITNESS ME and they become a rev

Re: Fake antags

PostPosted: Mon Nov 06, 2017 7:51 pm
by kevinz000
As a sec player this is hilarious when done with restraint.
Spam the gimmick and it becomes cancerous.
That being said if you play for a long time it's easy to guesstimate the actual chances of it being a certain antag but not much people can do that and it's still random chance/people will get tricked so it is going to be annoying sooner or later

Re: Fake antags

PostPosted: Mon Nov 06, 2017 8:32 pm
by NikNakFlak
I've only warned/told people to cut that shit out when players do it over and over as pkpenguin said.

Luck did this shit all the time with the flash and shouting viva and doing the fake changeling this "g: yo any other lings" which is OOC is IC shit.

tldr: pkpenguin is right. Otherwise, just kick their shit in IC and maybe they'll get tired of the gimmick.

Re: Fake antags

PostPosted: Mon Nov 06, 2017 10:30 pm
by Cobby
The flash stun time is randomized between 4 to 6 or something and doesn't differentiate between human and silicon.

Source: Me, the person who set the current values for the flash because of

Saegrimr but edited wrote:Less common use means flash = ITS REV

Re: Fake antags

PostPosted: Mon Nov 06, 2017 10:44 pm
by onleavedontatme
ExcessiveJMadison wrote:because of

Saegrimr but edited wrote:Less common use means flash = ITS REV


Except it is entirely in securities benefit to be gullible (or faking it) when it comes to rev scares. The optimal strategy for security to "win" any mode would be to immediately arrest or kill every other crew member and the mode being rev (or security thinking its rev) gives them the green light to do just that.

If there is no penalty for falling for fake revs, it's not gonna teach them not to fall for it if you make flashes more common, it will just give sec the excuse to do what they're probably itching to do anyway.

Re: Fake antags

PostPosted: Mon Nov 06, 2017 11:59 pm
by Cobby
Kor wrote:
ExcessiveJMadison wrote:because of

Saegrimr but edited wrote:Less common use means flash = ITS REV


Except it is entirely in securities benefit to be gullible (or faking it) when it comes to rev scares. The optimal strategy for security to "win" any mode would be to immediately arrest or kill every other crew member and the mode being rev (or security thinking its rev) gives them the green light to do just that.

If there is no penalty for falling for fake revs, it's not gonna teach them not to fall for it if you make flashes more common, it will just give sec the excuse to do what they're probably itching to do anyway.


But having them common allows for us to better explain why that's not ok (IE because it's a good personal defense weapon), where as keeping them as basically hardtells makes it easier to assume rev and start cargotration camps whenever anyone of any rank has a flash on them.

That's the whole point of metabreakers, and people exploiting these to be l0lhitler goes in the face of that (and to a degree should be handled OOCly). However, administrating people trying to survive because they think it's one of the roflstomp modes is also kinda lame. It's not a fun discussion to have because metabreakers are a double-edged sword for this very reason.

This of course makes the assumption "VIVA *flashes everybody*" and a guy simply having a flash on them are one in the same. This also makes the assumption that people are maliciously assuming rev to fuck people over, and don't actually believe it's rev (genuine misinformation). A lot of variables.

Re: Fake antags

PostPosted: Tue Nov 07, 2017 10:45 am
by Grazyn
Funny, the few times I tried this gimmick, sec was always smart enough to figure it wasn't actually rev. Even when I managed to pull a perfectly timed "he remembers his allegiance etc." emote when they implanted me, they still didn't take the bait. I guess sec quality has really gone down lately uh

Re: Fake antags

PostPosted: Tue Nov 07, 2017 11:08 am
by Arianya
Probably because headrevs are outright immune to implants and don't get the "he remembers his allegiance".

Also using emotes to emulate game messages, while amusing, seems liable to get you banned when it does cause sec to go hitlermode and is justified on all fronts.

Re: Fake antags

PostPosted: Tue Nov 07, 2017 12:04 pm
by BeeSting12
Emulating game messages with emotes definitely crosses a line- I've faked revs a couple times and I was only noted when I faked the message

Re: Fake antags

PostPosted: Tue Nov 07, 2017 2:03 pm
by Grazyn
Arianya wrote:Probably because headrevs are outright immune to implants and don't get the "he remembers his allegiance".

Also using emotes to emulate game messages, while amusing, seems liable to get you banned when it does cause sec to go hitlermode and is justified on all fronts.

Yeah it was probably "seems to resist the implant" or whatever the message is.

Re: Fake antags

PostPosted: Tue Nov 07, 2017 2:09 pm
by feem
Grazyn wrote:Yeah it was probably "seems to resist the implant" or whatever the message is.

Don't do this.

Re: Fake antags

PostPosted: Tue Nov 07, 2017 3:07 pm
by Cobby
how do you emulate the message when it's a different span?

Re: Fake antags

PostPosted: Tue Nov 07, 2017 3:36 pm
by imblyings
the same way I, /me whips out an electrified arcane arm, to make sec freak out and valid me

Re: Fake antags

PostPosted: Tue Nov 07, 2017 3:58 pm
by Nilons
Someone once faked an emote but put a spelling error in it on purpose to try and fuck with me so I just treated them 100% seriously and executed them. The salt harvest was good that day.

Re: Fake antags

PostPosted: Tue Nov 07, 2017 4:05 pm
by Grazyn
It goes without saying that I wouldn't have ahelped if sec had decided to execute me on the spot, but they saw right through my ruse and I got gulaged instead.

Re: Fake antags

PostPosted: Tue Nov 07, 2017 4:38 pm
by Atlanta-Ned
ExcessiveJMadison wrote:how do you emulate the message when it's a different span?


They should all be different spans. Grumble.

Re: Fake antags

PostPosted: Tue Nov 07, 2017 6:32 pm
by feem
Nilons wrote:Someone once faked an emote but put a spelling error in it on purpose to try and fuck with me so I just treated them 100% seriously and executed them. The salt harvest was good that day.


this is fine

they should have been icly dunked and then banned/noted

this is correct handling of this situation

Re: Fake antags

PostPosted: Tue Nov 07, 2017 7:24 pm
by Qbopper
Nilons wrote:Someone once faked an emote but put a spelling error in it on purpose to try and fuck with me so I just treated them 100% seriously and executed them. The salt harvest was good that day.


out of curiosity do you remember what the emote was

Re: Fake antags

PostPosted: Tue Nov 07, 2017 8:31 pm
by WarbossLincoln
Act like an antag, get treated like an antag. If someone is running around pretending to be a rev head then arrest them and treat them like one. If they're running around flashing people yelling viva then perma or execute them for sedition. Sure they might not be a Rev™ Brand Rev but IC they're inciting a rebellion. Act accordingly. Then they get banned when they adminhelp.

Re: Fake antags

PostPosted: Tue Nov 07, 2017 8:34 pm
by Nilons
Qbopper wrote:
Nilons wrote:Someone once faked an emote but put a spelling error in it on purpose to try and fuck with me so I just treated them 100% seriously and executed them. The salt harvest was good that day.


out of curiosity do you remember what the emote was


I think it was the rev implant break one(when you implant a revhead), can't remember for sure though

The best part was they kept yelling "DUDE NO CANT YOU SEE ITS SPELLED DIFFERENT ARE YOU RETARDED" while I stun bludgeoned them to death

Re: Fake antags

PostPosted: Tue Nov 07, 2017 9:54 pm
by obscolene
Nilons wrote:The best part was they kept yelling "DUDE NO CANT YOU SEE ITS SPELLED DIFFERENT ARE YOU RETARDED" while I stun bludgeoned them to death

If you do something with the sole intention of convincing others, through unorthodox means which break the rules, that you are someone whose antagonistic role is to kill the heads of staff -- then complain about being treated poorly by the role specifically created for combating antagonists and keeping the peace, I believe you may qualify for multiple criteria on the mental retardation checklist. ??

Re: Fake antags

PostPosted: Tue Nov 07, 2017 11:57 pm
by oranges
Nilons wrote:
Qbopper wrote:
Nilons wrote:Someone once faked an emote but put a spelling error in it on purpose to try and fuck with me so I just treated them 100% seriously and executed them. The salt harvest was good that day.


out of curiosity do you remember what the emote was


I think it was the rev implant break one(when you implant a revhead), can't remember for sure though

The best part was they kept yelling "DUDE NO CANT YOU SEE ITS SPELLED DIFFERENT ARE YOU RETARDED" while I stun bludgeoned them to death

I can see this in my head and it's perfect

Re: Fake antags

PostPosted: Wed Nov 08, 2017 5:20 pm
by Screemonster
imblyings wrote:the same way I, /me whips out an electrified arcane arm, to make sec freak out and valid me

printing a blank book titled "cryptographic sequencer" and stuffing it into your backpack the instant you see a sec officer before running the other way is always a classic