[POLL] Murderbone as antag

Ask and discuss policy about game conduct and rules.

Moderators: In-Game Head Admins, In-Game Game Master

Forum rules
Read these board rules before posting or you'll get reprimanded.
Threads without replies for 30 days will be automatically locked.

When does murderbone cross the line into bannable territory?

Poll ended at Thu Oct 02, 2014 7:42 am

1-6 people (who are not a target and pose little threat) as traitor without unusual objectives.
7
2%
1-6 people (who are not a target and pose little threat) as traitor without unusual objectives.
7
2%
1-6 people (who are not a target and pose little threat) as traitor without unusual objectives.
7
2%
6-12 people (who are not a target and pose little threat) as traitor without unusual objectives.
27
9%
6-12 people (who are not a target and pose little threat) as traitor without unusual objectives.
27
9%
6-12 people (who are not a target and pose little threat) as traitor without unusual objectives.
27
9%
12+ people (who are not a target and pose little threat) as traitor without unusual objectives.
9
3%
12+ people (who are not a target and pose little threat) as traitor without unusual objectives.
9
3%
12+ people (who are not a target and pose little threat) as traitor without unusual objectives.
9
3%
Never.
52
18%
Never.
52
18%
Never.
52
18%
 
Total votes : 285

scaredofshadows
In Game PermaBanned
 
Joined: Thu Apr 17, 2014 3:36 am
Location: Michigan, USA

[POLL] Murderbone as antag

Postby scaredofshadows » Thu Sep 25, 2014 7:42 am #30851

We're finally going to add this to the rules. I'd suggest that silent mass murder (without roleplaying of any kind) can be considered a bannable offense under rule 1. These bans might be anywhere from 24h to permanent and would be subject to review.

The community should decide what constitutes unacceptable murderbone with no roleplaying elements. I'm going to define 'unusual objectives' for the purpose of this thread as any objective where mass murder is an aid to rather than a hindrance from completing objectives. Obviously 'escape alone' requires a lot of murder. Assassinate one person and steal one item not only does not require mass murder, the odds of succeeding go down when you have the rest of the station hunting for you. Antagonists who have a reasonable motive for mass murder (borgs during Malf for example) are not under scrutiny here.



User avatar
Kangaraptor
 
Joined: Sat Apr 19, 2014 7:33 am
Location: dank memes
Byond Username: Kangaraptor

Re: [POLL] Murderbone as antag

Postby Kangaraptor » Thu Sep 25, 2014 7:50 am #30856

I don't think it could be quantified numerically; I think it'd depend largely on the population, who you killed and how you killed them. For instance, I don't think a lot of people would consider someone killing twelve people in funny/interesting/different ways to be as 'murderbone-y' as killing twelve people with the same ebow-esword combo we've seen time and time again. Personally I'd say it crosses the line when it becomes excessive, getting to the point where it collectively detracts from the experience on the server a-la 'kill everyone, recall the shuttle until I know everybody is dead' types.
Image

Scott
Github User
 
Joined: Fri Apr 18, 2014 1:50 pm
Byond Username: Xxnoob
Github Username: xxalpha

Re: [POLL] Murderbone as antag

Postby Scott » Thu Sep 25, 2014 7:51 am #30857

If the antagonist player can get an IC motive or come up with clever roleplay for murdering a lot of people, if it's fun for the people involved, sure. If he has to escape alone, sure. Otherwise, it's shit.

User avatar
Psyentific
 
Joined: Mon Apr 21, 2014 7:44 am
Location: Vancouver, Canada
Byond Username: Psyentific

Re: [POLL] Murderbone as antag

Postby Psyentific » Thu Sep 25, 2014 7:58 am #30858

Seems that preliminary results are saying that 6-12 is around the line. Assuming a population of ~60, for easy math, that's 10-20% of the server population.

Personally, I'm only against murderbone when it's done in a bland way. MutestingStunprod, or E-Sword Ebow, compared to rerouting disposals to the singulo and slam-dunking everyone. If this becomes policy in any sort, I'd like a clause where admins are advised to use their own judgement and 'play along' with creative murderbones.
I haven't logged into SS13 in at least a year.

User avatar
youngbuckliontiger
 
Joined: Thu Sep 25, 2014 6:56 am

Re: [POLL] Murderbone as antag

Postby youngbuckliontiger » Thu Sep 25, 2014 8:00 am #30859

so if no silent mass murdering.
does that mean i have to talk when i kill people.
i mean im usually silent because im using someones id and i dont want my identity to be found out.
thats the only reason im silent.
Player name: Rob Ust
Lets have fun in SS13!
I don't play anymore though.

User avatar
TheWulfe
 
Joined: Tue Jul 08, 2014 4:05 pm
Byond Username: TheWulfe

Re: [POLL] Murderbone as antag

Postby TheWulfe » Thu Sep 25, 2014 8:01 am #30860

Since we got a new thread for this, I'll reiterate my post from the appeal thread that sparked this.

We're probably as roleplay-light as you can get so no one really expects soliloquies or whatever when killing people or doing traitor actions, in fact it's the opposite, since I consider this server more action based than other servers. I really like it this way.

As antag, it is acknowledged you can do anything short of sexual creepiness.

I think unlimited murder is OK. Just the spirit of the murderbone is what's at issue.

Doing your traitor thing and killing people is OK. Running around with literally every play-to-win powergaming item, status, and tactic you can think of (Hulk, Hiding that Hulk so no one especially non-advanced players can possibly know how to kill you or why you're eating 10 stuns in a firefight until it's far too late, HoS armor, water slips) is in very bad spirit to the players.

That said, I don't believe anyone should be banned for murderboners no matter how high. Being a play-to-win powergamey prick is another story. And crosses into rule 1 of a good time.
Image

Scott
Github User
 
Joined: Fri Apr 18, 2014 1:50 pm
Byond Username: Xxnoob
Github Username: xxalpha

Re: [POLL] Murderbone as antag

Postby Scott » Thu Sep 25, 2014 8:03 am #30861

I think recurrance should be taken into account, as well. Say the middle option wins and it's a rule, people who constantly kill 5 people as antags without much reason should be crossing the line, no?

User avatar
Desucake
TGMC Administrator
 
Joined: Fri May 23, 2014 4:36 am
Byond Username: Desucake

Re: [POLL] Murderbone as antag

Postby Desucake » Thu Sep 25, 2014 8:03 am #30862

I think that murderboner has been common for many years now and I guess I've gotten used to having it happen. However, I do feel that if a certian person does it round after round after round, they really need to be talked to. I can understand the murderbone that goes from trying not to be noticed, get arrested,break out, and kill anyone near to get free and stay free, but I don't enjoy that murderbone becomes the copout from an objective. If someone isn't going to try any of their objectives, they should atleast ask the gods for a easier objective or not even sign up for traitor. I do believe we need be a bit firm on murderboners, but I don't think we need to upright ban them unless it becomes a everyday thing.

User avatar
Steelpoint
Github User
 
Joined: Thu Apr 17, 2014 6:37 pm
Location: The Armoury
Byond Username: Steelpoint
Github Username: Steelpoint

Re: [POLL] Murderbone as antag

Postby Steelpoint » Thu Sep 25, 2014 8:14 am #30865

I'm very iffy on the whole issue.

Outside of antags who have objectives require them to kill a large amount of people (Escape Alone comes to mind), I think that a antag should be discouraged from going on a mass murder spree. I do think that a antag who creatively kills a large amount of people (Disposals, going Hannibal on them, etc) should be allowed to do so, but the generic Ebow/Sword/Thingamajig should be discouraged.

If such a option was on offer, letting admins selectively lower someone's chance of being selected for a particular antag (Traitor) might make a good motivator to avoid mass killing. The statement would be that if you do go kill a lot of people, you significantly curtail your future odds of being selected for traitor for a long time (24 hours to a month).

I'm abstaining from the vote either way.
Image

Hacchinya
 
Joined: Sat Sep 20, 2014 11:24 pm

Re: Extreme Murderboning

Postby Hacchinya » Thu Sep 25, 2014 8:15 am #30867

Yeah this level of extreme murderboning is a bit much as this goes well above and beyond the role of the traitor into the realm of crazed murderer.
I'm all for this being added to the rules.
Just my 2 cents...

User avatar
TheWulfe
 
Joined: Tue Jul 08, 2014 4:05 pm
Byond Username: TheWulfe

Re: Extreme Murderboning

Postby TheWulfe » Thu Sep 25, 2014 8:16 am #30869

[Accidental repost due to moved post]
Last edited by TheWulfe on Thu Sep 25, 2014 8:37 am, edited 1 time in total.
Image

Fatal
In-Game Admin
 
Joined: Thu May 01, 2014 3:25 pm
Byond Username: FatalX1

Re: Extreme Murderboning

Postby Fatal » Thu Sep 25, 2014 8:17 am #30870

I think "responsible" behaviour should be expected when doing this kind of stuff, if there's no sec and only 15 crew, that's not responsible

Beyond that, antags should be able to go wild

HOWEVER

Recently, a certain player, they know who they are, during a ling round, made a comms console in maint, and recalled the shuttle 10 times, whilst actively murdering anyone who came near that area (and made no real effort to hunt down their objective), can we make constantly recalling using a comms console hidden in maint part of this policy too? It's not fun, and it's not cool (doing it a few times is okay, but adding 40+ minutes to the round because you want to murder?)

User avatar
Kangaraptor
 
Joined: Sat Apr 19, 2014 7:33 am
Location: dank memes
Byond Username: Kangaraptor

Re: Extreme Murderboning

Postby Kangaraptor » Thu Sep 25, 2014 8:20 am #30871

Fatal wrote:I think "responsible" behaviour should be expected when doing this kind of stuff, if there's no sec and only 15 crew, that's not responsible

Beyond that, antags should be able to go wild

HOWEVER

Recently, a certain player, they know who they are, during a ling round, made a comms console in maint, and recalled the shuttle 10 times, whilst actively murdering anyone who came near that area (and made no real effort to hunt down their objective), can we make constantly recalling using a comms console hidden in maint part of this policy too? It's not fun, and it's not cool (doing it a few times is okay, but adding 40+ minutes to the round because you want to murder?)


I'm pretty sure that would cross into rule one territory anyway (and if it doesn't, it really should) because it goes beyond having your fun - it actively and consistently prevents the server population having theirs until you cum your buckets over how mlg l33t you are.

At any rate, assuming another rule/policy is put in place regarding antags and unfun killing sprees, I can only hope that there'd be clauses specifically surrounding behaviour exactly as you described.
Image

Incoming
Github User
 
Joined: Tue Apr 15, 2014 11:41 pm
Byond Username: Incoming
Github Username: Incoming5643

Re: [POLL] Murderbone as antag

Postby Incoming » Thu Sep 25, 2014 8:26 am #30873

People often talk about paranoia being a good thing, but during any given traitor and/or ling round only a small fraction of the crew is actually being actively targeted. If you play the odds you'd notice that being properly paranoid doesn't statistically make sense if you were only ever in danger if you were specifically supposed to be in danger according to the game.

The point is collateral damage is what keeps the game interesting for all those people who are neither targets nor traitors, and since this usually is a small majority of the players it's obviously important to keep that going.

Even if it's shitty, even if it's poorly played, even if it serves no purpose other than to reduce the number of witnesses to crimes you have already committed, it's IMPORTANT that this threat of murderbone exists. How fun would the game be if you could "clear" yourself of target status just by standing in a big room of people and seeing if any in particular seem to be specifically trying to kick your ass? What would the fun be if you knew nothing could go wrong, and how entitled would some people come if something ever did go wrong unexpectedly?

A hard number does nothing but give a line that will certainly be crossed by both shitlers and the robust who are at least legitimately entertaining. Keep it to admin messages only, don't enshrine it in policy besides what's essentially already there: "hey if an admin is actively telling you it's shitty behavior, cut it out".
Developer - Datum Antags: Feburary 2016

Poly the Parrot - All Seeing Bird Transcends Universe, Joins Twitter.

Patreon - Make A Poor Life Choice

Good ideas backed by cruddy code since 2012!

Fatal
In-Game Admin
 
Joined: Thu May 01, 2014 3:25 pm
Byond Username: FatalX1

Re: [POLL] Murderbone as antag

Postby Fatal » Thu Sep 25, 2014 8:46 am #30876

The problem is the mentality we have on the server

A LOT of people, take their antag rounds as a reason to ignore objectives, and try kill as many people as possibly to prove how awesome they are, with no regard to anyone else's fun, or any roleplay whatsoever, and I don't really like that mentality at all, I'm sure some people feel the same

Also, is it awesome to kill unarmed people with traitor weaponry? I didn't think so

User avatar
bandit
In-Game Admin
 
Joined: Thu Apr 17, 2014 7:35 pm
Byond Username: Bgobandit

Re: [POLL] Murderbone as antag

Postby bandit » Thu Sep 25, 2014 9:41 am #30881

As old as murderboning gets, I don't think it should be actually bannable outside extreme circumstances (murderboning in lowpop for hours, artificially extending rounds via chain-recalling, taking advantage of noadminstime4griff). Basically anything that would violate Rule 1.

That said, if it is banned anyway, it won't exactly be devastating to me
Last edited by bandit on Thu Sep 25, 2014 9:50 am, edited 1 time in total.
"I don't see any difference between ERP and rape." -- erro

admin feedback pls

Alex Crimson
 
Joined: Fri Apr 18, 2014 1:05 pm
Byond Username: Dazbuzz

Re: [POLL] Murderbone as antag

Postby Alex Crimson » Thu Sep 25, 2014 9:47 am #30884

I think murderboning is perfectly fine. I hate dying to people who murderbone, but i dont feel the need to change the antag rules because of it. I think antags should be free to play however they want. The only thing id make bannable is extending the around just so they can murderbone more.

User avatar
cedarbridge
In-Game Admin
 
Joined: Fri May 23, 2014 12:24 am
Byond Username: Cedarbridge

Re: [POLL] Murderbone as antag

Postby cedarbridge » Thu Sep 25, 2014 9:54 am #30887

Incoming wrote:People often talk about paranoia being a good thing, but during any given traitor and/or ling round only a small fraction of the crew is actually being actively targeted. If you play the odds you'd notice that being properly paranoid doesn't statistically make sense if you were only ever in danger if you were specifically supposed to be in danger according to the game.

The point is collateral damage is what keeps the game interesting for all those people who are neither targets nor traitors, and since this usually is a small majority of the players it's obviously important to keep that going.

Even if it's shitty, even if it's poorly played, even if it serves no purpose other than to reduce the number of witnesses to crimes you have already committed, it's IMPORTANT that this threat of murderbone exists. How fun would the game be if you could "clear" yourself of target status just by standing in a big room of people and seeing if any in particular seem to be specifically trying to kick your ass? What would the fun be if you knew nothing could go wrong, and how entitled would some people come if something ever did go wrong unexpectedly?

A hard number does nothing but give a line that will certainly be crossed by both shitlers and the robust who are at least legitimately entertaining. Keep it to admin messages only, don't enshrine it in policy besides what's essentially already there: "hey if an admin is actively telling you it's shitty behavior, cut it out".

This would be more cogent if it had anything to do with the causes or motivations for murderboning. By definition, its not "to cover witnesses", it only exists to fill that ~need~ to remove players from the round. All the shit players get on this server for having a CoD/RDM mindset? Its enshrined in the "rolled antag time to kill everything" arrangement granted to antags.

I also keep hearing this meme about "paranoia" crop up over and over again, but I don't really see how this is 1) Essential 2)Served by single powergaming antags murderboning. It doesn't make players paranoid. It doesn't make them fearful of anything. It just removes them and hides them in a place they're unlikely to ever be brought back from. "Thanks for logging in now get out. This is a server about antags."

User avatar
Steelpoint
Github User
 
Joined: Thu Apr 17, 2014 6:37 pm
Location: The Armoury
Byond Username: Steelpoint
Github Username: Steelpoint

Re: [POLL] Murderbone as antag

Postby Steelpoint » Thu Sep 25, 2014 9:54 am #30888

One other thing. Personally I would rather a antag go around trying to murderbone than spend two hours doing nothing.

IMO its only when they go out of their way to extend the round as much as possible, such as recalling the evac shuttle.
Image

Konork
 
Joined: Sat Apr 19, 2014 6:33 am
Byond Username: Konork

Re: [POLL] Murderbone as antag

Postby Konork » Thu Sep 25, 2014 9:56 am #30889

Alex Crimson wrote:I think murderboning is perfectly fine. I hate dying to people who murderbone, but i dont feel the need to change the antag rules because of it. I think antags should be free to play however they want. The only thing id make bannable is extending the around just so they can murderbone more.

The thing is, antags are only given free reign so they can try to make the round more fun or interesting for the other players. Most murderboners are the exact opposite of interesting, and are only fun for the antag involved.
cedarbridge wrote:I also keep hearing this meme about "paranoia" crop up over and over again, but I don't really see how this is 1) Essential 2)Served by single powergaming antags murderboning. It doesn't make players paranoid. It doesn't make them fearful of anything. It just removes them and hides them in a place they're unlikely to ever be brought back from. "Thanks for logging in now get out. This is a server about antags."

Most people don't really realize that, in order to have actual paranoia, there needs to be some element of trust in the first place.

User avatar
Stickymayhem
In-Game Game Master
 
Joined: Mon Apr 28, 2014 6:13 pm
Byond Username: Stickymayhem

Re: Extreme Murderboning

Postby Stickymayhem » Thu Sep 25, 2014 10:28 am #30891

Fatal wrote:I think "responsible" behaviour should be expected when doing this kind of stuff, if there's no sec and only 15 crew, that's not responsible

Beyond that, antags should be able to go wild

HOWEVER

Recently, a certain player, they know who they are, during a ling round, made a comms console in maint, and recalled the shuttle 10 times, whilst actively murdering anyone who came near that area (and made no real effort to hunt down their objective), can we make constantly recalling using a comms console hidden in maint part of this policy too? It's not fun, and it's not cool (doing it a few times is okay, but adding 40+ minutes to the round because you want to murder?)



I recalled the shuttle three times that round personally adding about 15 minutes. The clown recalled it five times that round. In addition, I had all my greentext but I couldnt find my debrain target and had borgs out looking for him.

Anyway, I'm sure everyone can guess my opinion on murderbone. Honestly I originally enjoyed this server because antags had near complete freedom and it would suck to take this away. In my opinion this should be very rarely implemented and only on those obnoxious few (like me) who murserbone too hard to often.

In fact, HBL asked me not to do my classic magboot ebow circular saw mass murder because it was going too far so I've stopped.

I don't want antag freedom to be restricted and I think taking players aside in those cases where they've gone too far is the best option. Number limits doesn't suit this issue and I think simply being stricter on our implementation of rule 1 is a better solution.
Image

Image

Apsis
 
Joined: Thu Apr 17, 2014 2:26 pm

Re: [POLL] Murderbone as antag

Postby Apsis » Thu Sep 25, 2014 10:57 am #30896

I think murderboning is alright, unless it's lowpop. I really don't want to see more rounds turn into double agent or changeling levels of boring.

Incomptinence
 
Joined: Fri May 02, 2014 3:01 am
Byond Username: Incomptinence

Re: [POLL] Murderbone as antag

Postby Incomptinence » Thu Sep 25, 2014 11:32 am #30903

Murderboning is fine, an antag postponing a bad situation with shuttle recalls repeatedly is worse really. Worst thing about original cult is it got so long winded that we needed to prevent off station comms consoles with code. I ded plz restart votes have a place, the situation discussed is that place. Maybe if saying I DED PLS RESTART in ooc was less important to us we could actually use it.

User avatar
Aranclanos
 
Joined: Tue Apr 15, 2014 4:55 pm
Byond Username: Aranclanos

Re: [POLL] Murderbone as antag

Postby Aranclanos » Thu Sep 25, 2014 1:35 pm #30910

Apsis wrote:I think murderboning is alright, unless it's lowpop.
I accept donations, click here

Lo6a4evskiy
 
Joined: Fri Apr 18, 2014 6:40 pm
Byond Username: Lo6a4evskiy

Re: [POLL] Murderbone as antag

Postby Lo6a4evskiy » Thu Sep 25, 2014 3:22 pm #30925

I think this is a terrible way to handle this problem. What do you expect people to do? Talk while they murder? Impossible, they themselves will be killed. Kill X amount of people and then avoid it at all costs, because there is a hard line that admins set? That's ridiculous.

What's "little threat"? Do I wait until assistant disarms me, potentially murders me right after that, before he becomes a threat? Let's say I have to pass chef because he's little threat. He then stunprods me and it's done, I cannot do anything about it. Turns out he wasn't such little threat? What do you do in that case?

User avatar
Bluespace
 
Joined: Fri Apr 18, 2014 1:04 pm
Location: UK
Byond Username: Bluespace

Re: [POLL] Murderbone as antag

Postby Bluespace » Thu Sep 25, 2014 3:47 pm #30929

I'd love to see the server move towards more roleplay orientated antags.
I play Boris Pepper.
Image

User avatar
youngbuckliontiger
 
Joined: Thu Sep 25, 2014 6:56 am

Re: [POLL] Murderbone as antag

Postby youngbuckliontiger » Thu Sep 25, 2014 4:03 pm #30933

Lo6a4evskiy wrote:I think this is a terrible way to handle this problem. What do you expect people to do? Talk while they murder? Impossible, they themselves will be killed. Kill X amount of people and then avoid it at all costs, because there is a hard line that admins set? That's ridiculous.

What's "little threat"? Do I wait until assistant disarms me, potentially murders me right after that, before he becomes a threat? Let's say I have to pass chef because he's little threat. He then stunprods me and it's done, I cannot do anything about it. Turns out he wasn't such little threat? What do you do in that case?



Thats why i pretty much kill everyone because they are all a threat when im antag.
That assistant that you think that poses no threat could be using sun tzu's art of war- Appear weak when you are strong
And the hulk with spray plus hos armor is not that even strong.
its easily counterable and not unstopabble.
If i was powergaming for real, i would have a durand, lots of bombs, all 4 powers, all access, ai subjugated and all borgs under my control, a goliath evil pet, all disease that are benefitting and lots more. Now that is playing to win because you are pretty much unstopabble.
and aren't all antags need to have a play to win gamestyle since they don't wanna lose you know.

I think powergaming should be allowed for traitors but not for non-antag people.
Last edited by youngbuckliontiger on Thu Sep 25, 2014 4:11 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Player name: Rob Ust
Lets have fun in SS13!
I don't play anymore though.

User avatar
Munchlax
 
Joined: Fri Apr 18, 2014 11:25 am
Byond Username: Lobstercake

Re: [POLL] Murderbone as antag

Postby Munchlax » Thu Sep 25, 2014 4:07 pm #30935

antags have full freedom to do whatever, I enjoy it that way.

User avatar
youngbuckliontiger
 
Joined: Thu Sep 25, 2014 6:56 am

Re: [POLL] Murderbone as antag

Postby youngbuckliontiger » Thu Sep 25, 2014 4:20 pm #30937

There is a lot of votes for never.
so i guess silent mass murdering with no role play is still allowed.
Player name: Rob Ust
Lets have fun in SS13!
I don't play anymore though.

Scott
Github User
 
Joined: Fri Apr 18, 2014 1:50 pm
Byond Username: Xxnoob
Github Username: xxalpha

Re: [POLL] Murderbone as antag

Postby Scott » Thu Sep 25, 2014 4:22 pm #30938

No murderbone has votes 20 now, just different opinions in the same side.

QuartzCrystal
 
Joined: Sat Aug 30, 2014 2:21 pm
Byond Username: QuartzCrystal

Re: [POLL] Murderbone as antag

Postby QuartzCrystal » Thu Sep 25, 2014 4:58 pm #30942

23 to 14 in total really. With the majority of people wishing SOME limit are in the 6-12 range.

Although I think it's worth saying situations should ultimately be left up to the admins discretion. There are times when one murder suddenly turns into 6 because you don't want to risk being caught.

Ultimately I think we all know what a valid killing spree looks like that has no roleplay/practical benefit other than "LOL REMOVE AS MANY PEOPLE FROM THE ROUND AS POSSIBLE!"

damiac
Rarely plays
 
Joined: Fri Apr 18, 2014 4:35 pm

Re: [POLL] Murderbone as antag

Postby damiac » Thu Sep 25, 2014 5:19 pm #30947

I think rather than such a specific rule, I'd rather have a generic rule saying "Antags can do what they want, so long as it somehow advances their objectives"
That also fixes some other problems of 'friendly antags' who do nothing to advance the round.

So, recalling the shuttle when your only objective left is "escape" is obviously not advancing your objectives.
Hiding in maint, popping out and killing people might be legitimate, if you're trying to force a shuttle call. (And maybe part of the issue with murderboners is nobody calls the shuttle while someone is killing a bunch of people off).
Similarly, if you've got an easy way to call the shuttle, as antag you should do it.

I'd rather get killed off, and have the round end after 10 minutes, then have a do nothing antag, and live through a 3 hour long round where nothing happens.

Lo6a4evskiy
 
Joined: Fri Apr 18, 2014 6:40 pm
Byond Username: Lo6a4evskiy

Re: [POLL] Murderbone as antag

Postby Lo6a4evskiy » Thu Sep 25, 2014 5:27 pm #30950

youngbuckliontiger wrote:There is a lot of votes for never.
so i guess silent mass murdering with no role play is still allowed.

Can we stop with this "majority is correct" mindset?

For example, I'd be glad to see murderboner gone, but this is just a terrible way to handle it.

This is exactly why polls are fucking terrible. People start discussing polls, not opinions and arguments.

User avatar
cedarbridge
In-Game Admin
 
Joined: Fri May 23, 2014 12:24 am
Byond Username: Cedarbridge

Re: [POLL] Murderbone as antag

Postby cedarbridge » Thu Sep 25, 2014 5:35 pm #30954

Lo6a4evskiy wrote:
youngbuckliontiger wrote:There is a lot of votes for never.
so i guess silent mass murdering with no role play is still allowed.

Can we stop with this "majority is correct" mindset?

For example, I'd be glad to see murderboner gone, but this is just a terrible way to handle it.

This is exactly why polls are fucking terrible. People start discussing polls, not opinions and arguments.

Especially when a poll is interpreted to a binary answer instead of actually looking at the diverse ideas listed thereon. ITs not a two question pol. Its 4 and for a reason. And as Lo6 says, even then the answers don't always conform to the opinions. I'm also not a huge fan of murderboning or any other sort of "lel I antag time to ruin rounds fnr" playstyles. I really doubt anyone is asking for antags to read Sun Tsu to their victims, but some sort of IC reasoning for the murders would at least make sense. Quartz is right that its very clear when an antag is killing because they need to and when an antag is killing just to remove players from the roundd.

User avatar
Munchlax
 
Joined: Fri Apr 18, 2014 11:25 am
Byond Username: Lobstercake

Re: [POLL] Murderbone as antag

Postby Munchlax » Thu Sep 25, 2014 5:40 pm #30959

especially when the poll is on the forums you mean...

User avatar
cedarbridge
In-Game Admin
 
Joined: Fri May 23, 2014 12:24 am
Byond Username: Cedarbridge

Re: [POLL] Murderbone as antag

Postby cedarbridge » Thu Sep 25, 2014 5:43 pm #30961

geilebeer wrote:especially when the poll is on the forums you mean...

I thought that part rather took care of itself.

User avatar
youngbuckliontiger
 
Joined: Thu Sep 25, 2014 6:56 am

Re: [POLL] Murderbone as antag

Postby youngbuckliontiger » Thu Sep 25, 2014 5:54 pm #30965

why not just put dead people in an arena where they can have fun or practice antag roles like cult, ops, revs and wizard. like a heaven place or something for the dead so people dont get bored when they are dead. like people are always complaining that the guy doesnt know how to play that antag role so why not have a practice area for that when you are dead. they won't have to watch the murderboner who killed them. They can improve their robustness too.
Player name: Rob Ust
Lets have fun in SS13!
I don't play anymore though.

Fatal
In-Game Admin
 
Joined: Thu May 01, 2014 3:25 pm
Byond Username: FatalX1

Re: [POLL] Murderbone as antag

Postby Fatal » Thu Sep 25, 2014 6:01 pm #30971

I think any ruling on this subject should be quite loose, at the admins discretion, rather than having a set number of people you can kill before it gets out of hand

Simply:

Don't murderbone in low pop when there's no sec, or other situations, up to admin discretion

Don't extend the round too much by CONSTANTLY recalling the shuttle

User avatar
cedarbridge
In-Game Admin
 
Joined: Fri May 23, 2014 12:24 am
Byond Username: Cedarbridge

Re: [POLL] Murderbone as antag

Postby cedarbridge » Thu Sep 25, 2014 6:03 pm #30972

youngbuckliontiger wrote:why not just put dead people in an arena where they can have fun or practice antag roles like cult, ops, revs and wizard. like a heaven place or something for the dead so people dont get bored when they are dead. like people are always complaining that the guy doesnt know how to play that antag role so why not have a practice area for that when you are dead. they won't have to watch the murderboner who killed them. They can improve their robustness too.

A few admins already do some things like this. Creating an effective "station 2" would be a bit overboard. Also, some antagtypes (blob especially due to its high processing usage) put a strain on the server. There's a thunderdome idea thread in this same vein but frankly, it can all be done with admin buttons already.

User avatar
Hornygranny
Rarely plays
 
Joined: Tue Apr 15, 2014 4:54 pm
Byond Username: Hornygranny

Re: [POLL] Murderbone as antag

Postby Hornygranny » Thu Sep 25, 2014 6:13 pm #30976

Never. I'm not dealing with counting murder victims from traitors, this is ridiculous.
Image

User avatar
youngbuckliontiger
 
Joined: Thu Sep 25, 2014 6:56 am

Re: [POLL] Murderbone as antag

Postby youngbuckliontiger » Thu Sep 25, 2014 6:36 pm #30983

What i did like murderboning was wrong. I say just remove murderboning and never allow it. It ruin people's rounds. It is not fun to be killed and have to watch for like 2 hours. just never allow it ever. You should just kill your target only.
Player name: Rob Ust
Lets have fun in SS13!
I don't play anymore though.

User avatar
Skorvold
 
Joined: Fri Apr 18, 2014 2:36 pm
Byond Username: Skorvold

Re: [POLL] Murderbone as antag

Postby Skorvold » Thu Sep 25, 2014 6:49 pm #30988

I think mass murder is fine when done in such a way that requires at least a bit of effort, for example: bombing or plasma fire.

Voting for never though.
Never give up! Trust your instincts!
Spoiler:
http://steamcommunity.com/id/skorvold
Talk to me on steam anytime.

kosmos
 
Joined: Tue Apr 22, 2014 2:59 pm
Byond Username: Kingofkosmos

Re: [POLL] Murderbone as antag

Postby kosmos » Thu Sep 25, 2014 6:57 pm #30991

What happened to "antags can do whatever they want"? Murderbonerers, for me, bring an exciting dynamic to the game and they're surprisingly entertaining to observe and talk about in deadchat, cheering the last survivors and such. Before I realized this I was mad about them and against them. And now that we have drones, there's no reason at all to get mad enough to ban people over it.

User avatar
Hibbles
 
Joined: Fri Apr 18, 2014 4:33 pm
Location: United States
Byond Username: HotelBravoLima

Re: [POLL] Murderbone as antag

Postby Hibbles » Thu Sep 25, 2014 7:02 pm #30993

Never. If we start putting limits on what antags can do, aside from OOC stuff like crashing the server or abusing bugs, then we're headed down a really, really bad path.

Lately there's been rising tides of You Don't Enjoy The Game Like I Do Or Like What I Like Therefore You're Bad; see recent pushes for Correct RP Procedures being enforced more heavily. That's not what /tg/ should be about IMO. We have a large, diverse community of people who like different parts of the game, and pretending only one way is valid is absurd.
RIP

User avatar
cedarbridge
In-Game Admin
 
Joined: Fri May 23, 2014 12:24 am
Byond Username: Cedarbridge

Re: [POLL] Murderbone as antag

Postby cedarbridge » Thu Sep 25, 2014 7:11 pm #30997

kosmos wrote:What happened to "antags can do whatever they want"? Murderbonerers, for me, bring an exciting dynamic to the game and they're surprisingly entertaining to observe and talk about in deadchat, cheering the last survivors and such. Before I realized this I was mad about them and against them. And now that we have drones, there's no reason at all to get mad enough to ban people over it.

Says somebody who has apparently never seen the excitement of watching the only guy on the station wander around waiting for late joins to kill for 15 minutes+

User avatar
Arete
 
Joined: Mon Aug 04, 2014 12:55 am
Byond Username: Arete

Re: [POLL] Murderbone as antag

Postby Arete » Thu Sep 25, 2014 8:31 pm #31008

Mass murdering in order to encourage an immediate shuttle call is perfectly alright. Hell, a guy who gets murderboned and then has to set around for 15 minutes while the round ends is better off than a traitor target whose corpse gets shoved into a locker for the rest of the 2+ hour shift. Rushing to be the first into the emergency shuttle, emagging the shuttle console, and then having to fight all the other people on the shuttle at once shouldn't be the only acceptable way to complete the "escape alone" objective.

Ebow + Esword comboing the entire station one by one is awful boring and uncreative, but that seems like the sort of thing that should be solved primarily by coding changes rather than policy changes.

Edit: That said, endlessly recalling the shuttle so you have more people to murder should be a clear server rule 1 violation. Hopefully the debraining objective can be completely removed from the game so that changelings no longer have the incentive to do that sort of thing.

User avatar
youngbuckliontiger
 
Joined: Thu Sep 25, 2014 6:56 am

Re: [POLL] Murderbone as antag

Postby youngbuckliontiger » Thu Sep 25, 2014 9:41 pm #31033

so is it still okay for me to mass silently kill everyone if majority votes for never?
i just wanna confirm because I don't wanna be banned for it if i ever do it again. ScaredofShadows said that if i murderbone again ill be banned. But if it is the majority vote is never will i be allowed to murderbone? or am i the only one who is not allowed to murderbone????
I know i said what i did was wrong but if it is still ever allowed, i just cant stop myself from doing it because i rarely become traitor and i just like murderboning...
but if murderboning is not allowed. Ill never do it.
Player name: Rob Ust
Lets have fun in SS13!
I don't play anymore though.

User avatar
ThanatosRa
Rarely plays
 
Joined: Fri Apr 18, 2014 4:07 pm
Location: Las Vegas, Nevada, USA
Byond Username: ThanatosRa

Re: [POLL] Murderbone as antag

Postby ThanatosRa » Thu Sep 25, 2014 10:07 pm #31038

I think it depends on the situation and implimentation of Rule One. Only the worst and truly Egregious examples should be Handled with severe administrative punishment. If it's simultaneously a massive Rule One Violation, have at it hoss... otherwise, it really just depends.

There needs to be bounds of reason, but a hard cap on numbers isn't where this boundary is. Being murderboned Sucks... but I agree with the necessity and appeal of the Freedom that antags have. Bounds of reason, individual investigations of individual cases, and human judgment on the part of the Admin team.

Don't create a rule that allows you to be LAZY.
my forum gimmick is that no one knows who i am

User avatar
Psyentific
 
Joined: Mon Apr 21, 2014 7:44 am
Location: Vancouver, Canada
Byond Username: Psyentific

Re: [POLL] Murderbone as antag

Postby Psyentific » Thu Sep 25, 2014 10:14 pm #31041

youngbuckliontiger wrote:so is it still okay for me to mass silently kill everyone if majority votes for never?
i just wanna confirm because I don't wanna be banned for it if i ever do it again. ScaredofShadows said that if i murderbone again ill be banned. But if it is the majority vote is never will i be allowed to murderbone? or am i the only one who is not allowed to murderbone????
I know i said what i did was wrong but if it is still ever allowed, i just cant stop myself from doing it because i rarely become traitor and i just like murderboning...
but if murderboning is not allowed. Ill never do it.

Shrug?
I'd hold off on it just because there's so much stuff you can do in SS13, and there's so many ways to make everything go horribly wrong.

I mean, it's not against the rules, it's never been against the rules, and odds are pretty good that, regardless of the outcome of this poll, it won't be against the rules for quite some time. Even if it goes in policy, there's going to be quite a fair bit of thought and discussion before anything concrete (i.e. something more than "murderbone = bad/unfun") comes about

Your ban for murderbone was actually pretty shitty, and also unprecedented; killing sprees are a daily occurance here, and nobody gets anything resembling punishment (or even a slap on the wrist) for it. If you copped another ban (esp. permaban) for murderbone it'd really surprise me. Personal dislike aside, banning for a couple murderboners runs against the general spirit of the community and against general attitudes which have stood for years.
I haven't logged into SS13 in at least a year.

User avatar
Kuraudo
 
Joined: Tue Jul 22, 2014 9:48 pm
Location: France
Byond Username: Arumashi

Re: [POLL] Murderbone as antag

Postby Kuraudo » Thu Sep 25, 2014 10:24 pm #31048

Never.
What if my target is the HoP, and I decide to take him down using the singularity beacon, a bomb or a plasma fire. I kill him but also eliminate 10 people in the process. I will get boinked for that ?

Murderboning is a double-edged sword. It will get you caught and killed. That's the real limitation to it. No need to create rules to limit the antag behavior. You think it's easy to stroll around and murder people in a server with +50 players ? You'll get lucky if the people you killed don't get cloned.
"He can't be bargained with. He can't be reasoned with. He doesn't feel pity, or remorse, or fear. And he absolutely will not stop, ever, until you are brigged."

Next

Return to Policy Discussion

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: Omega_DarkPotato