[POLL] New Name Policy

Ask and discuss policy about game conduct and rules.

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How strict should the naming standard be held to?

5 : Very strict: Bay Rules
5
2%
5 : Very strict: Bay Rules
3
1%
5 : Very strict: Bay Rules
3
1%
4 : Slightly edited Bay rules: What is currently proposed in this post
36
12%
4 : Slightly edited Bay rules: What is currently proposed in this post
25
8%
4 : Slightly edited Bay rules: What is currently proposed in this post
25
8%
3 : Middle of the line: Basically Bay rules but Nicknames and mononames are allowed
41
13%
3 : Middle of the line: Basically Bay rules but Nicknames and mononames are allowed
33
11%
3 : Middle of the line: Basically Bay rules but Nicknames and mononames are allowed
33
11%
2 : Very relaxed: Basically anything but Nazi names
33
11%
2 : Very relaxed: Basically anything but Nazi names
24
8%
2 : Very relaxed: Basically anything but Nazi names
24
8%
1 : Anything goes
10
3%
1 : Anything goes
8
3%
1 : Anything goes
8
3%
Abstain
0
No votes
Abstain
0
No votes
Abstain
0
No votes
 
Total votes : 311

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Re: [POLL] New Name Policy

Postby Saegrimr » Thu Oct 02, 2014 4:13 pm #32946

Scott wrote:My lizard character has many S's in it, is that not allowed?

I thought I was gonna choke on my drink when I saw Aiden Sssscott.
tedward1337 wrote:Sae is like the racist grandad who everyone laughs at for being racist, but deep down we all know he's right.



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Re: [POLL] New Name Policy

Postby Scott » Thu Oct 02, 2014 4:17 pm #32950

It's the stupid humans fault for fucking my ID up.

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Re: [POLL] New Name Policy

Postby Timbrewolf » Thu Oct 02, 2014 4:50 pm #32967

Saegrimr wrote:
Scott wrote:My lizard character has many S's in it, is that not allowed?

I thought I was gonna choke on my drink when I saw Aiden Sssscott.


That HoP is a hero
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Re: [POLL] New Name Policy

Postby Apsis » Thu Oct 02, 2014 6:32 pm #32998

Lizards shouldn't have human names.

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Re: [POLL] New Name Policy

Postby Timbrewolf » Thu Oct 02, 2014 8:52 pm #33026

Maybe the humans have had lizard names this whole time.

EDIT

Just want to point out that no decision has been reached on this yet, the vote is for a policing of mononames and nicknames.

Currently the rule that is on the books is still just

Avoid using non character names. If you have a very offensive name or an obviously immersion breaking moniker like 'xenohunter360' you will be asked to change it.


So when I log in and see admins bwoinking people for having names like "Noodle Wings" or "Cartoons Plural" it seems like they're jumping the gun and administrating what they personally want and not what the rules or the community is voting for.
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Re: [POLL] New Name Policy

Postby miggles » Thu Oct 02, 2014 11:44 pm #33064

rule 0 lol
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Re: [POLL] New Name Policy

Postby NikNakFlak » Fri Oct 03, 2014 3:36 am #33095

An0n3 wrote:Maybe the humans have had lizard names this whole time.

EDIT

Just want to point out that no decision has been reached on this yet, the vote is for a policing of mononames and nicknames.

Currently the rule that is on the books is still just

Avoid using non character names. If you have a very offensive name or an obviously immersion breaking moniker like 'xenohunter360' you will be asked to change it.


So when I log in and see admins bwoinking people for having names like "Noodle Wings" or "Cartoons Plural" it seems like they're jumping the gun and administrating what they personally want and not what the rules or the community is voting for.


FYI, it was agree'd in adminbus to already enforce the new naming policy which INCLUDES nicknames. The vote was only put there at Scaredofshadow's request and does not, in fact determine the outcome of the policy in anyway. It is merely a tool to see what the community thinks and to take their thoughts into account.
Again, to make this clear. The new policy is already enforced, covering mononames and nicknames as well. This poll and thread was only made to get community input on the change and for the community to discuss it. Admins are not jumping the gun, you are simply not up to speed on the situation.
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Re: [POLL] New Name Policy

Postby Timbrewolf » Fri Oct 03, 2014 5:32 am #33117

Ah cool so adminbus:

1) Conducted a poll just to see what the community thinks what would be best, and then ignored it.

2) Decided to start enforcing new rules without letting people know a decision had been reached in the thread discussing the policy, and without updating the rules on the wiki.

Goooooooo team!

When did this conversation take place, and who decided on it? Because I was hanging out in adminbus all day yesterday and for a good while earlier today and didn't hear anybody talking about it.

I asked HBL about it in OOC when the situation I talked about earlier arose and he didn't have any reply.
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Re: [POLL] New Name Policy

Postby NikNakFlak » Fri Oct 03, 2014 7:15 am #33150

An0n3 wrote:Ah cool so adminbus:

1) Conducted a poll just to see what the community thinks what would be best, and then ignored it.

Conducted a poll, yes. Ignored it? No. There is still debate about mononames and nicknames based on community feedback.

2) Decided to start enforcing new rules without letting people know a decision had been reached in the thread discussing the policy, and without updating the rules on the wiki.

This thread was made to announce new rules, that is why it is called New Name policy. Maybe that was not clear enough. As far as the the wiki rules, that was discussed in adminbus and I was told it would be updated.
When did this conversation take place, and who decided on it? Because I was hanging out in adminbus all day yesterday and for a good while earlier today and didn't hear anybody talking about it.


This happened a couple days before "yesterday." Just because you are never in adminbus does not mean that things are not discussed simply because you are not there. I can not find the original conversation as my IRC client does not go back far enough, but I can find the follow up conversation involving scaredofshadow's opinion.

View here: http://privatepaste.com/0b77c1c363
As of now, the naming policy is being tossed around back and forth and admin's are using their best judgement based on what we have talked about. It's a mostly solid, agreed upon idea and policy with some chinks to work out.
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Re: [POLL] New Name Policy

Postby Timbrewolf » Fri Oct 03, 2014 2:08 pm #33243

NikNakFlak wrote:It's a mostly solid, agreed upon idea and policy with some chinks to work out.


Das racist.

Regardless nothing you just said is true but arguing here or with you about it is pointless. It's an entirely subjective policy based on what each individual admins believes is too goofy or not. Someone might see Hiro Protagonist and recognize it as a reference to another sci-fi work. Someone else will just see a goofy name worth bwoinking someone over. To say that's "solid" is a joke.
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Re: [POLL] New Name Policy

Postby damiac » Fri Oct 03, 2014 3:57 pm #33272

Hiro Protagonist was a really fucking dumb name in snow crash, and it's a really fucking dumb name in SS13.

I don't know which is worse really, naming your character based on a popular work of fiction, or just having a dumb name in general...

Either way, the old name policy was fine except it bothered a few 'very special' individuals, but for some reason those individuals now seem to be making up the rules.

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Re: [POLL] New Name Policy

Postby NikNakFlak » Fri Oct 03, 2014 5:16 pm #33302

An0n3 wrote:
NikNakFlak wrote:It's a mostly solid, agreed upon idea and policy with some chinks to work out.


Das racist.

Regardless nothing you just said is true but arguing here or with you about it is pointless. It's an entirely subjective policy based on what each individual admins believes is too goofy or not. Someone might see Hiro Protagonist and recognize it as a reference to another sci-fi work. Someone else will just see a goofy name worth bwoinking someone over. To say that's "solid" is a joke.


Everyone in adminbus agreed to the policy on page one at the time. It's not our fault that you were not apart of that discussion. Leaving for an extended period of time tends to do that. It's also not really my problem that you think that everyone is doing whatever. There is the written policy, and admins do their best to enforce it within their interpretation of said policy. This is the case with EVERYTHING. Rule 1 is a prime example of a primary subjective rule that relates. You are the one who has been out of the loop for awhile and you are entitled to your opinion. But an opinion based on outdated and lack of info, is a dumb opinion.
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Re: [POLL] New Name Policy

Postby Timbrewolf » Fri Oct 03, 2014 6:07 pm #33325

This is the case with EVERYTHING. Rule 1 is a prime example of a primary subjective rule that relates.


Now you're saying something I can actually agree with. Because what the hell Rule 1 actually can be used for and what "being a jerk" really means is something nobody can ever quite agree on. How much of a jerk is acceptable? Is someone being too sensitive?

Comparing that clusterfuck to this new naming policy is exactly what I'm talking about.
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Re: [POLL] New Name Policy

Postby NikNakFlak » Fri Oct 03, 2014 7:05 pm #33349

There is a policy layed down and admins interpret it to their best of the ability just like everything else. Its not a clusterfuck, its the same as every other policy and rule, the only reason it is being attacked in this way is because it is new and disliked.
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Re: [POLL] New Name Policy

Postby damiac » Fri Oct 03, 2014 7:12 pm #33352

So... why are the admins creating and enforcing rules that are disliked?

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Re: [POLL] New Name Policy

Postby Timbrewolf » Fri Oct 03, 2014 7:17 pm #33354

The difference is it's easy not to have Rule 1 invoked on you. Just follow all the other rules and you'll definitely be okay.

This naming policy? Like what about the name I've been using for years, "Hugh Griffin"?
I mean Griffin is like, a meta-term right? That's not canon!

Am I okay because >muh grandfathers?
Does it sound enough like a "real" name to pass?

Whose judgement gets used for that? I think it's okay, and I'm a game master. So that's okay, right?

Ultimately the real-

Fuck damiac ninja'd me

damiac wrote:So... why are the admins creating and enforcing rules that are disliked?
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Re: [POLL] New Name Policy

Postby miggles » Fri Oct 03, 2014 9:08 pm #33394

unlike rule 1 subjective policy on names is literally just whether or not the admin likes your name or not
it has nothing to do with actually breaking any rules, and thats why its a shit policy
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Re: [POLL] New Name Policy

Postby NikNakFlak » Fri Oct 03, 2014 9:08 pm #33395

That is a retarded excuse. Just because something is not liked, does not make it less valid.
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Re: [POLL] New Name Policy

Postby paprika » Fri Oct 03, 2014 9:19 pm #33402

miggles wrote:unlike rule 1 subjective policy on names is literally just whether or not the admin likes your name or not
it has nothing to do with actually breaking any rules, and thats why its a shit policy

I really doubt this is the case. Give me some examples of names that have been banned by admins who are being the name-police unfairly.

Actually, admins aren't supposed to be banning names anyway, according to SoS they're supposed to be force-renaming. After several notes for poor name choices I'd see why a ban would be necessary but this really seems like an issue people are making For No Reason when the name policy we've always had (don't use stupid names unless you're a clown) has always worked fine.
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Re: Anon3

Postby Hornygranny » Fri Oct 03, 2014 9:32 pm #33406

Below is the version history for the rules page of the wiki since July. It's ten pages of way more than double spaced text with very large font.

19:56, 21 September 2014‎ Hornygranny (Talk | contribs)‎ . . (22,438 bytes) (-68)‎ . . (undo)
08:43, 26 August 2014‎ Kosmos (Talk | contribs)‎ m . . (22,506 bytes) (+30)‎ . . (Updated the silicon policy.) (undo)
08:10, 11 August 2014‎ MrStonedOne (Talk | contribs)‎ . . (22,458 bytes) (+1)‎ . . (→‎Primary Policies) (undo)
08:09, 11 August 2014‎ MrStonedOne (Talk | contribs)‎ . . (22,457 bytes) (+1)‎ . . (→‎Primary Policies) (undo)
08:08, 11 August 2014‎ MrStonedOne (Talk | contribs)‎ . . (22,456 bytes) (+2)‎ . . (→‎Primary Policies) (undo)
(03:59, 30 July 2014‎ Jordie0608 (Talk | contribs)‎ . . (22,454 bytes) (+196)‎ . . (Updated IC in OOC policy as per adminpoll) (undo)
05:17, 6 July 2014‎ Jordie0608 (Talk | contribs)‎ . . (22,258 bytes) (+3,983)‎ . . (added new silicon policy, restructured page) (undo)
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Re: [POLL] New Name Policy

Postby Timbrewolf » Fri Oct 03, 2014 9:41 pm #33416

[Snark that contributes nothing to the conversation and edited in hindsight]
Last edited by Timbrewolf on Sat Oct 04, 2014 5:52 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: [POLL] New Name Policy

Postby captain sawrge » Fri Oct 03, 2014 9:44 pm #33419

NikNakFlak wrote:That is a retarded excuse. Just because something is not liked, does not make it less valid.

It's a fucking game dude
If the policy isn't liked why fucking keep it around

I'm still wondering why? Like, it's honest to god fun policing. "Your fun is not right and is bad and wrong and I am putting an end to it!"
Why are you guys so insistent on something like this?
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Re: [POLL] New Name Policy

Postby paprika » Fri Oct 03, 2014 9:46 pm #33420

I'm pretty sure the grey tiding policy isn't liked but we keep it anyway because The Loud Shitposters On The Forum Do Not Make Up The Entire Server
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Re: An0n3

Postby Timbrewolf » Fri Oct 03, 2014 9:49 pm #33422

Thanks for pointing that out. I noticed nobody has changed anything for over two weeks and this

Avoid using non character names. If you have a very offensive name or an obviously immersion breaking moniker like 'xenohunter360' you will be asked to change it.


Is still the policy for what's appropriate for people's names.
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Re: [POLL] New Name Policy

Postby captain sawrge » Fri Oct 03, 2014 10:02 pm #33425

Grey tiding affects the round in an actual meaningful way.
Names are literally just text the worst that could happen is you have a long ass name and people try to scream alphabet soup over comms when you murder them.
Don't get me wrong, it's always been policy to change especially shitty names (nazi stuff, random characters, screen names, whatever) but banning names like Large Puff or whatever is just silly.
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Re: An0n3

Postby Hornygranny » Fri Oct 03, 2014 10:04 pm #33426

To paraphrase our glorious leader, we are still in the "ask nicely" phase, but are progressing towards the "no choice" phase.
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Re: [POLL] New Name Policy

Postby Cipher3 » Fri Oct 03, 2014 10:06 pm #33427

captain sawrge wrote:Names are literally just text the worst that could happen is you have a long ass name and people try to scream alphabet soup over comms when you murder them.

Now that you mention it, having a long name could be a real advantage...

Introducing my new character:
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Re: An0n3

Postby Timbrewolf » Fri Oct 03, 2014 10:46 pm #33434

Hornygranny wrote:To paraphrase our glorious leader, we are still in the "ask nicely" phase, but are progressing towards the "no choice" phase.


But come on.

You play "King Jerome". Are you not a little bothered that someone might balk that you're using "King" as a firstname? If you play King Jerome and I play Hugh Griffin, are we not setting a double-standard in some sense? It's okay for us to use those names because we've used them for X months. Or because we're arbiters of what is right and wrong and so we both sign off on ourselves.

QuartzCrystal wrote:An0n3 is a cool guy who I got along with great back in the day. Glad to see him being more active, though he could tone down the dramabus maybe.


I'm going to cross-post something I posted in Steno

Adminbus has done a lot of work and put up with a lot of shit from other people to get things stable and working as good as they are now. A lot of things that used to be HUUUUGE messes are all smoothed out and nice. I imagine it was a struggle to get there. And now out of nowhere comes this jackass screaming and yelling like he knows better than all of them. I don't blame anybody that is like "wow what a fucking jerk". I definitely could've approached a lot of these policy threads I'm currently still screaming and yelling in with a lot more tact. I could've spent more time in adminbus saying my hi's and hello's and warming people back up to the thought of having me around.

But decisions are made pretty quickly and the policies that are up for debate are really important to the core feeling of this place. Precedents are being set that are just out of this world, shit we never would've given three minutes of thought before. I don't have time to be nice. Persons unnameable dug up my coffin and said "hey could you look at this?" and...goddamn.

Saegrimir, just for example, is probably going to think I'm a fucking lunatic forever now, because that's how I conducted myself while talking to them. And by all rights they're a good admin, but they're championing policies I think are crucially awful and I'm the only sickly pale purple colored forum account that is going to bat against those changes in a big way.
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Re: [POLL] New Name Policy

Postby miggles » Fri Oct 03, 2014 10:49 pm #33437

the people who complain about their greytiding being shut down should already be banned, or have been. that isnt comparable to people complaining about the name changes considering afaik none of the people doing it have ever been banned for a considerable amount of time
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Re: An0n3

Postby Hornygranny » Fri Oct 03, 2014 10:56 pm #33441

No, Prince, Duke, and King are not uncommon names, and pun names that are also real names (Ayla Mao) are not banned.
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Re: An0n3

Postby Timbrewolf » Fri Oct 03, 2014 11:00 pm #33444

Hornygranny wrote:No, Prince, Duke, and King are not uncommon names, and pun names that are also real names (Ayla Mao) are not banned.


Another proviso I don't know because I wasn't present for the official ruling.

Like every player on the server who wasn't a fly on the wall for that discussion.
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Re: An0n3

Postby Incomptinence » Fri Oct 03, 2014 11:07 pm #33448

Well I simply must play as Duke Prince King now.

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Re: An0n3

Postby Hornygranny » Fri Oct 03, 2014 11:22 pm #33453

That's why people aren't getting banned for it.
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Re: An0n3

Postby Pandarsenic » Fri Oct 03, 2014 11:22 pm #33454

1) Is it a real first name
2) Is it a real last name
3) If there's a middle name, is it a real name

If yes to all three or yes yes N/A, you're fine.
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Re: An0n3

Postby Timbrewolf » Sat Oct 04, 2014 2:43 am #33498

What makes a name "real"?

I ask that because there are plenty enough examples of real people with ridiculous names I believe most admins who are hot to police player names would probably reject for not being "real" enough.

Your "American McGee". Your "Hashtag Jones". The "Apple"'s of the world.
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Re: An0n3

Postby Raven776 » Sat Oct 04, 2014 3:17 am #33501

Depends on what admins want at the moment.

Maybe we should just make random names mandatory to cut the middle man out here and nuke the server's population.

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Re: [POLL] New Name Policy

Postby Timbrewolf » Sat Oct 04, 2014 3:23 am #33502

Grey tide policy is a totally different thread. If you want to talk about that or equate it to different things it would probably serve better to do it over there than try to do it here.
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Incomptinence
 
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Re: [POLL] New Name Policy

Postby Incomptinence » Sat Oct 04, 2014 4:01 am #33512

Mistah Nailbrane is half real.
i know because there is a mistah in jojos
i also googled it apparently indian/common muslim name
i been onta ya sneakin' hummie gits fer yonks

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miggles
 
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Re: [POLL] New Name Policy

Postby miggles » Sat Oct 04, 2014 4:12 am #33515

yeah but its pronounced "meestah" instead of "mistuh"
dezzmont wrote:I am one of sawrge's alt accounts

dezzmont wrote:sawrge has it right.

Connor wrote:miggles is correct though

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Re: [POLL] New Name Policy

Postby Incomptinence » Sat Oct 04, 2014 5:24 am #33527

The character would be totally fine with that bombastic pronunciation.

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Psyentific
 
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Re: [POLL] New Name Policy

Postby Psyentific » Sat Oct 04, 2014 5:26 am #33529

Nailbrane's a 40k reference, which is A-Okay. He even acts orky.
I haven't logged into SS13 in at least a year.

Incomptinence
 
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Re: [POLL] New Name Policy

Postby Incomptinence » Sat Oct 04, 2014 5:30 am #33531

Hence why I was in here telling people Mistah is a real name and not really fussing over the last part. OH TRYING TO GET AN UNUSUAL FIRST NAME OVER US HERE IS OUR BOOK OF WESTERN BABY NAMES YOU ARE NOW A BATHOLOMEW.

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iamgoofball
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Re: [POLL] New Name Policy

Postby iamgoofball » Sat Oct 04, 2014 5:35 am #33533

I've been using Func U Vehicle since I started playing in 2011. I have had no reason to ever change it.

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Timbrewolf
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Re: [POLL] New Name Policy

Postby Timbrewolf » Sat Oct 04, 2014 5:57 am #33535

Had a good conversation 1:1 with someone on the other side of this policy and it brought to light a sentiment I may not have expressed as succinctly in this thread yet:

This new rule turns names that were acceptable last month, three months ago, a year ago, or three years ago, into offenses against a new rule.

It "criminalizes" players who weren't doing anything wrong or noticeably bothering anyone. And it must be that they were bothering SOMEONE with those names, or there wouldn't be such fervor for more restriction about it.

So I think myself and a lot of others are left wondering...who is really bothering such that NOW is the time that it HAS become noticeable and something needs to change?

Did enough old people who didn't care leave that now the majority do care about it, or do we have enough new input such that it overwhelms what once was?
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Pandarsenic
 
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Re: An0n3

Postby Pandarsenic » Sat Oct 04, 2014 8:38 pm #33675

Pandarsenic wrote:1) Is it a real first name
2) Is it a real last name
3) If there's a middle name, is it a real name

If yes to all three or yes yes N/A, you're fine.


These are ifs, not iffs. That is, these are not the ONLY ways to have a name you're fine with, but a way to ensure no matter how dumb your name is, it will be safe.

Func U Vehicle, while I would probably, personally, make it U. instead, is structured like a name so I don't know about other admins but I'm not gonna flip shit over it.
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imblyings
 
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Re: [POLL] New Name Policy

Postby imblyings » Sun Oct 05, 2014 6:04 am #33760

what is a real name because I got adminpm'd about this (name - SIngulo Food)

literally what the fuck is a real name

a real name as per 21st century mainstream western society standards with allowances for puns and ultimately subjectively determined by the admins online?

a real name as per 500 years into the future where we have no idea how culture and society turn out, in a station where nothing makes sense?

Singulo Food was perfectly fine before new admins popped up, it fits the latter category, has a first and last name, and is perfectly plausible given the wacky nature of the station. Would it have been fine if it was Cingulo Foood? Do admins pushing this shit policy want to be insulted that way?
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Re: [POLL] New Name Policy

Postby Deuce » Sun Oct 05, 2014 9:08 pm #33908

Not everyone currently alive on Earth in 2014 has a sensible first name + surname.
Not sure why people expect it in their space office murder and atmospherics simulator.

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Re: [POLL] New Name Policy

Postby damiac » Tue Oct 07, 2014 5:29 pm #34513

Who is this policy for? In fact, what is the purpose of the rules at all? I assumed it was so the players could have a Good Time (TM). But now it seems more like the rules are there for the administration's enjoyment, as the playerbase doesn't seem to actually support them.

So, what are the rules actually for? To make sure the players Have a Lot of Fun, or to make sure the players Have some Fun, the Right Way.

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Hornygranny
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Re: [POLL] New Name Policy

Postby Hornygranny » Tue Oct 07, 2014 6:39 pm #34531

Coders and administrators are the curators of the game experience. We do things that may not be popular (runspeed change, trustworthy sec) because we think it's the best direction for the server. We are generally right.

I like the subtle implications that things you don't like are the work of "new" admins when they're all stamped with HBL's seal of approval.
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miggles
 
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Re: [POLL] New Name Policy

Postby miggles » Tue Oct 07, 2014 9:13 pm #34573

HBL isnt really old and hes definitely not reputable
unlike runspeed changes and no antags in sec this has no bearing on the game other than being a textbook example of fun policing
dezzmont wrote:I am one of sawrge's alt accounts

dezzmont wrote:sawrge has it right.

Connor wrote:miggles is correct though

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