Breaking into rooms, stirring discontent, both NOW BANNABLE

Oldman Robustin · Fri Oct 03, 2014 1:41 am

Bottom post of the previous page:

>Fresh round
>You assistant now
>Type in "RIOT!" then run off to see if something inspires you

*BWOINK*

Stickymayhem: Don't do that, it might inspire greytiding, greytiding is illegal now
Me: ...

>See conference room
>Get inspiration
>Break in and steal carpet
>Announce to others that we're going to carpet the bridge
>False-wall into the bridge and begin removing tiles
>Myself and 2 others are killed in large explosions without further warning
>Bridge and conference room now have bomb-sized hull-breaches

Stickmayhem: I told you greytiding is against the rules.
Stickmayhem: This is a new policy, we all agreed that greytide is shit and needs to go

---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

I'm not even sure I can string together a coherent, appropriate sentence for how unbelievably short-sighted and shitty this is.

There has always been a relatively clear line between Greytide Lite(TM) and Grieftide. I could accept previous crackdowns against greytide since they were at least rational, breaking into the brig FNR can be frustrating as security, stealing critical equipment and then disappearing into maintenance is really dickish, disabling power in an area is a level of hostility you should only expect from antags...

But this? PLAY NICE, DONT SAY REBELLIOUS THINGS, DONT BREAK ANYTHING, DONT TOUCH ANYTHING WITHOUT PERMISSION, DONT MOVE CARPET, DONT ALTER THE STATION, DON'T ENTER UNAUTHORIZED AREAS, ETC... is beyond the pale of reason. Which team of fucking mental athletes on the adminbus determined that this was the best balance for tgstation without consulting or informing a single member of the actual fucking community?

Between this and the feedback thread incident, I'm rapidly losing faith in the ability for admins, coders, moderators, etc. to self-police. Every other decision I've seen come down the pipe lately look like someone took a random spin on the wheel of "LETS FUCK UP SHIT THAT PERFECTLY FINE BEFORE".

I'll also preempt the shittiest most cliched excuse I've heard for greytide crackdowns. I've probably played security more than anyone responsible for making this awful decision. When greytide became grieftide, I agree, it was a detriment to the ground... but I actually ENJOY security roles more when I get some variety in my work. Between hunting grizzled murderers lurking in maint, I actually HAVE FUN(TM) busting low level offenders who aren't going to try and kill me when I make an arrest. If a greyshirt is trying to dodge security after stealing a monkey from genetics, I'm going to "EXPERIENCE POSITIVE FEELINGS"(C) chasing him down and catch him. It breaks up the monotony of so many rounds where you can go 30 minutes without getting a report of actual hostile, criminal activity.

I mean is it even that hard to maintain a common sense policy on this, or are we just going to throw logic out the fucking window and ban all crime as GREYTIDE? (WHICH UNLIKE THE NAME IMPLIES, APPARENTLY EXISTS IN A BLACK AND WHITE UNIVERSE WHERE TIDING FOR BRIG GEAR AND TIDING FOR CARPET ARE SEEN AS EQUALS)

Low-level crimes are part of SS13's lifeblood and it makes my round on both sides of the conflict more enjoyable. I am not going to have fun as assistant or security if all crimes are now bannable by admins and I'm left for changelings alone to create an interesting 90-minute round for me. Please exercise some common sense, the mere fact that bridge was fucking blown up to punish us indicates that the people enforcing this rule could use a refresher on it.

For posterity, this is now the punishment for stealing carpet on SS13, this reeks of rational decision making and an educate change in policy based on consensus between players and administrators:

Hibbles · Post by **Hibbles** » Fri Oct 03, 2014 2:00 pm #33241

Next time please put this in an admin complaint thread or something.

I'm on it.

EDIT: ADMIN LOG: HotelBravoLima/(Myriam Rathens) has added a ADMIN_TEMPBAN for stickymayhem (10080 minutes) with the reason: "(MANUAL BAN) Making the bridge explode and blowing up like three people in-game, a player who bombed would get at least this much if not more. " to the ban database.

Alex Crimson · Post by **Alex Crimson** » Fri Oct 03, 2014 2:22 pm #33245

If you had just broken into the bridge and replaced the floor tiles, then i doubt any admin wouldve stopped you. The big deal here seems to be with the "RIOT!" announcement at the start of the round. Even if you meant it as a joke, the admins cannot read your mind. All they saw was you proclaim that you were going to riot, followed by you breaking into a high-security area and begin griefing it. They saw you incite disorder, then act in a disorderly way.

What did you intend to do after remodeling the bridge? More disruptive shit? At what point is it ok for admins to intervene and stop your repeated shitting up of the round? If Sec had attempted to arrest you, would you have resisted? Like i said, admins are not mind readers. They clearly went overkill in this situation, but you can see how they came to that decision.

Hibbles · Post by **Hibbles** » Fri Oct 03, 2014 2:29 pm #33247

[17:58:13]SAY: Oldman Robustin/ForcefulCJS : RIOT
[17:58:13]SAY: Oldman Robustin/ForcefulCJS : RIOT
[17:58:20]SAY: Oldman Robustin/ForcefulCJS : SPREAD CHAOS AND MAYHEM

[17:59:30]ADMIN: PM: ForcefulCJS/(Oldman Robustin)->Stickymayhem/(Jack Steiner): oh cmon

This wasn't really an example of Hitler-tier greytide in my own personal opinion but while we're counting blame, Forceful, don't do either of these things again.

paprika · Post by **paprika** » Fri Oct 03, 2014 2:45 pm #33250

Posting in a scaredy thread.

Coming from my personal security and antag experience, it's nice when a grey tider robusts the FUCK out of an antag when all hope is seemingly lost and they've absolutely pooped on security. Grey tider vigilantism is something we should discourage, but allow. It's not nice to have a group of players play mini-security just because sec can't kill people and only has stun guns while they have stun prods and hatchets and shit and seemingly no 'rules' like sec does when it comes to killing antags, because they can just claim self defense or whatever.

Grey tiding for 'hilarious' situations is only fun for the grey tiders and nobody else finds it funny, sorry scaredy. Assistants have a stigma of being complete assholes who steal shit from people instead of just players new to the game that everyone is encouraged to help. When an assistant asks for insulated gloves, my first response is 'fuck off' because I figure they'll be hacking into eva or other departments to steal shit for no reason other than to make the game more 'WACKY AND HILARIOUS!' for other people (read: griefing). I've seen assistants use them to hack vending machines for people, and help out departments in small ways, but this never happens and is a drop in the bucket in comparison to the amount of shitter griefing that happens by assistants with hacking tools.

People who like grey tiding as a 'dynamic' of the game, a dynamic that was born from griefing, usually only like it because they can get away with it. Assistants have no responsibility so new players don't have to feel pressured to perform any certain way while they learn how to play, not so asshole people can be shitters and take a vacation from the game. Hell, I'm guilty of doing this, I haven't seen a single person who hasn't used assistant to be a lazy, and that's fine to an extent, but being a lazy asshole who goes LE GREY TIDE EPIC MEME is terrible. They'll try any way they can to shit up admin events, mess with anything creative that the crew is doing, and generally be assholes because that's all that's expected of assistants. You have to be on your toes around them, lest something get stolen from you just for the sake of stealing. You should expect that of antagonists, not the job reserved for fucking new players.

Admins have been increasingly jobban-happy on players who have a significant playtime in the game who play assistant to be assholes. This is a good thing. Keep it up. They won't go quietly because they've been at this for years but they're the worst population /tg/ has right now and if they're getting deadminned (bluespace, stickymayhem) for being admins this probably isn't a minority of the population you should pay attention to when it comes to admin policies and shit.

Timbrewolf · Post by **Timbrewolf** » Fri Oct 03, 2014 3:48 pm #33270

scaredofshadows wrote:I'll be having a chat with stickymayhem about the usage of admin explosions in this situation. For now, he's been bumped down to observer temporarily.

This is my quick take on this situation - I want people to be able to greytide. I want people to be able to form a mob and do something interesting or hilarious. I think everyone here agrees that a greytide mob murdering everyone can't be allowed. The point of disagreement is where do we draw the line with greytide? Do we allow an army of assistants to break into the bridge? What happens when the admins nudge security into handling the greytide in-character and it results in a bloodbath with tons of ban appeal and ban request threads?

I think the keyphrase here is:

I want people to be able to form a mob and do something interesting or hilarious

and how interesting or hilarious something is is really situational and subjective. As it turns out, it seems like all the people who claim to grey tide to "spice up" the round and do stuff just aren't funny or interesting. Though that doesn't mean we should tighten up restrictions and discourage other people from trying, I do think it's a good idea to take away the chance for people who keep fucking it up to try anymore, both to give everyone whose had to clean up after them a break and to prevent players from seeing them and think "assistant = pure mayhem with no style".

What I'm hearing (and maybe I'm wrong) but it sounds like in a perfect world you could bend the rules a little if it's funny and interesting, but if you fall flat on your face and nobody is laughing, you're going to deservedly catch hell for it. The lesson would be: don't fuck around if you aren't sure people are going to enjoy it.

damiac · Post by **damiac** » Fri Oct 03, 2014 3:53 pm #33271

Hey idiot admins: The guy who runs the server and makes the rules just told you "What oldman did is allowed. The admin response was so terrible I temporarily deadminned him over it"

So if you disagree with that, you're enforcing rules that the GUY WHO MAKES THE RULES SAID DO NOT EXIST! It's pretty fun to see even after scaredy's comment that people are still trying to say Oldman did something wrong.

TLDR: Anyone who thinks any OOC punishment should have happened is at odds with the actual rules of the server, as set by the owner of the server.

Here, for all you semi-illiterate morons:

[quote="scaredofshadows"]This is my quick take on this situation - I want people to be able to greytide. I want people to be able to form a mob and do something interesting or hilarious.[/quote]

As usual, Oldman is within the rules, and punished anyway. The owner of the server backs him up, and the admins somehow still insist they are right.

EDIT: If you think recarpeting the bridge falls under "grief' or "murder" and not "interesting or hilarious" stop participating in any activity that requires basic human brain function, because you don't have it.

Timbrewolf · Post by **Timbrewolf** » Fri Oct 03, 2014 4:15 pm #33277

He was hitting the floor with a crowbar

Obviously he was trying to murder the station itself

Hornygranny · Post by **Hornygranny** » Fri Oct 03, 2014 4:41 pm #33284

Damiac, have you played this game in the last 6 months?

Timbrewolf · Post by **Timbrewolf** » Fri Oct 03, 2014 4:45 pm #33285

Nice ad hominem shitpost in a policy thread.

Hornygranny · Post by **Hornygranny** » Fri Oct 03, 2014 4:46 pm #33286

And damiac's post wasn't ad hominem? He has no ground to stand on, he doesn't play this game and he should not be part of this community.

Timbrewolf · Post by **Timbrewolf** » Fri Oct 03, 2014 4:48 pm #33287

He's angry but at least he's talking about the situation and demonstrates that he's following the conversation.

Talking about what everyone is talking about vs. talking about the people who are talking about the thing.

Spacemanspark · Fri Oct 03, 2014 4:49 pm

Hornygranny wrote:And damiac's post wasn't ad hominem? He has no ground to stand on, he doesn't play this game and he should not be part of this community.

He is a part it, regardless. His imput still matters. If you don't like it, don't read it.

Hornygranny · Post by **Hornygranny** » Fri Oct 03, 2014 4:51 pm #33290

His input does not matter and to me, he is not part of the community and never has been. He has literally never played the game even semi-regularly, I'm actually perplexed as to why he posts here.

Timbrewolf · Post by **Timbrewolf** » Fri Oct 03, 2014 4:53 pm #33294

It's okay to shitpost when you don't think a single person in the thread's opinion matters?

...and you're a global moderator?

Spacemanspark · Fri Oct 03, 2014 4:59 pm

Hornygranny wrote:His input does not matter and to me, he is not part of the community and never has been. He has literally never played the game even semi-regularly, I'm actually perplexed as to why he posts here.

If what he posts is relevant to the topic at hand, and makes sense, it really doesn't matter.

damiac · Post by **damiac** » Fri Oct 03, 2014 5:09 pm #33299

I uh... actually have played the game within the last 6 months (2 months ago)
I also used to play the game daily, so uhh... wrong again HG
And since you know so much about me, clearly I'm a member of the community (If I wasn't, you probably wouldn't be talking about me, now would you?)

Also, you apparently don't know what ad hominem is. It's attacking a person, rather than their argument, in an effort to 'win' the debate without having to bother with trifles like logic and facts. You know, the thing you're doing to me here(or rather, ineffectively trying to do, again). Essentially, ad-hominem is the childish tantrum version of saying "Good point"

Anyway, the point I was trying to make stands, the server owner has come down and said "Hey admins, assistants are allowed to break in to places and fuck around and have fun, and I want it to be that way". You guys have gone all 0-tolerance retard mode over the actual legitimate problem of assistants griefing people (The bridge is not a person, and carpeting is not grief).

Feel free to... you know... participate in the policy discussion, this thread isn't about how awesome I am(kidding) or how awful you are(quite serious).

Steelpoint · Post by **Steelpoint** » Fri Oct 03, 2014 5:17 pm #33304

I think the main point of contention is, and I quote...

do something interesting or hilarious

Meaning SoS argues that he supports greytiding to the extent that the outcome is either interesting or hilarious. While this is up to interpretation, I would argue it supports groups of people doing something unique but punishes people who, say, rush the Captain and strip him bare.

Stickymayhem · Post by **Stickymayhem** » Fri Oct 03, 2014 5:19 pm #33305

damiac wrote:Hey idiot admins: The guy who runs the server and makes the rules just told you "What oldman did is allowed. The admin response was so terrible I temporarily deadminned him over it"

So if you disagree with that, you're enforcing rules that the GUY WHO MAKES THE RULES SAID DO NOT EXIST! It's pretty fun to see even after scaredy's comment that people are still trying to say Oldman did something wrong.

TLDR: Anyone who thinks any OOC punishment should have happened is at odds with the actual rules of the server, as set by the owner of the server.

Here, for all you semi-illiterate morons:

[quote="scaredofshadows"]This is my quick take on this situation - I want people to be able to greytide. I want people to be able to form a mob and do something interesting or hilarious.

As usual, Oldman is within the rules, and punished anyway. The owner of the server backs him up, and the admins somehow still insist they are right.

EDIT: If you think recarpeting the bridge falls under "grief' or "murder" and not "interesting or hilarious" stop participating in any activity that requires basic human brain function, because you don't have it.[/quote]

[11:57] <Stickymayhem> Right. Would OOC handling of the situation have been better? Despite warnings he refused to stop so I believed gibbing them was a better idea.
[11:57] <scaredofshadows> (if there was a way) admin teleporting them to a brig cell (not the admin prison), nudging security to stop them, giving them a temp assistant jobban
[11:57] <scaredofshadows> if he refused to do what you told him to do, you can give him a ban
[11:58] <scaredofshadows> even a 12h ban is enough to get people to pay attention
[11:58] <scaredofshadows> "stop breaking into the bridge" "no" "okay, I have to ban you"
[11:59] <Stickymayhem> Yeah I understand. Seeing as it was Oldman I was wary of dropping a ban on him, and I still feel that had I done that, the response would have been the same, if not greater.
[12:00] <scaredofshadows> the response would have been me going in the thread and telling people to settle down and the ban will stand
[12:00] <scaredofshadows> and we'll all, as a group, talk about how to handle greytide
[12:01] <scaredofshadows> assistant jobbans also work wonders

Scaredy didn't think this instance of greytide was acceptable but explosions were a dumb way to handle them. Which is totally right.

Ergo, if Oldman had been banned I wouldn't have been punished. I just did a stupid thing instead because I'm stupid.

Brotemis · Post by **Brotemis** » Fri Oct 03, 2014 5:26 pm #33306

I've actually seen your connection logs, damiac. Last I knew, you haven't played since March or so. Give the armchair warrior shtick a rest and get the stick out of your ass over admins. "Hey idiot admins," then you talk about ad homs. Come on bro, You're as much involved with the community as I am right now.

The bottom line as to who judges when greytiding is 'funny or interesting' comes down to admin judgement and to a lesser extent, the players. Like it or leave it, it's that way and will likely remain that way as long as the players are paragons of excellent roleplay.

In short: shut the fuck up, you have no idea what you're talking about, you don't even play. Get blown the fuck out

paprika · Post by **paprika** » Fri Oct 03, 2014 5:28 pm #33307

>guy starts post with 'hey idiot admins'
>HG tells him to fuck off
>people hate HG

what

damiac · Post by **damiac** » Fri Oct 03, 2014 5:29 pm #33308

Well, if that's how scaredy feels I guess that's how it is, but that's a really weird interpretation of griefing vs innocent screwing around.

But, even other admins didn't seem to see it that way, e.g.:

Saegrimr wrote:If this was honestly only about reflooring the bridge with no other variables involved, everybody in this thread should banned, me included.

But scaredy said it should be punished, with a caveat: <scaredofshadows> if he refused to do what you told him to do, you can give him a ban

You didn't tell him to get out of the bridge, you told him to stop saying 'riot', which apparently he did.

So clearly some further clarification is needed. I mean... whose round was negatively affected by this? Is that not the usual criteria for 'griefing'?

Because taking this as is, it's basically saying sec is only for antags, any non antag crime is bannable. That doesn't mesh with "I want people to be able to greytide for fun and interesting situations".

But I should back off the hostility either way. Sorry for getting so heated.

EDIT: Calling a person an idiot, then refuting his argument isn't ad-hom, although it's also not a great way to conduct oneself.
Brotemis, you're dumb, therefore your arguments is incorrect. Now that's an example of ad-hominem (Kinda like how "You don't even play brah" is ad-hominem)

Gamarr · Post by **Gamarr** » Fri Oct 03, 2014 5:30 pm #33309

Sticky jumped the gun a little and damaged the bridge and conference room. Let's separate the issues a little, in that his bombing shouldn't have happened (and I apologize for not breeding a better environment in asay during this for Oldmans normal stupid shit). CJS breaking into the bridge 'to recarpet it because I CAN' is a separate issue, which deserved a ban, and probably a perma assistant jobban given he incited a riot and he knows better.

I say that for a few players, because they have been here way, Way long enough to know better and saying otherwise means they are just shit and lying to play stupid so they can get away with being a total fuckwad to the station. They wanna recarpet something, go to chapel, or bar, not the Bridge and Head access area after shouting to riot. No, this is not funny, and if you think it is you can fuck off because it's ass and security shouldn't have be dealing with your stupidity upon everything else.

There is a fine line of acceptable dickery and not acceptable, and CJS routinely in the past has toed this line and why you are still here is beyond me.

damiac · Post by **damiac** » Fri Oct 03, 2014 5:40 pm #33311

So saying the word 'riot' just took control over the other player's poor little minds and made them do evil stuff like PUTTING CARPETS ON THE FLOOR!?!?!?!

So what would a 'legitimate punishment' be here? Being on the bridge unauthorized is bannable now? What IC crimes aren't bannable by those standards?

paprika · Post by **paprika** » Fri Oct 03, 2014 5:45 pm #33313

Why do people try to take complicated situations and try to boil them down to black-and-white shit to make people look bad or dismantle their arguments?

Even when we have the full information and logs of what happen people just assume shit and ask stupid questions like the post above me.

BEING ON THE BRIDGE UNAUTHORIZED I-IS BANNABLE NOW?? F-FUCKING SHIT ADMINS! when that isn't the full story and never has been

Damiac needs a fucking forum ban this is all he does

QuartzCrystal · Fri Oct 03, 2014 5:52 pm

I remember when greytiding started off as a thing because a code change made everyone's job preferences only choose assistant. So there were so many angry assistants they ended up just rioting, and then security would crack down on them and the riot would get worse. It was at this point greytiding became something that would be declared if security were abusing their power (also remember back then, sec could be traitors). If someone yelled "GREYTIDE AT THE BRIG!!!" everyone knew this meant a prison break had to happen. This is why we have the random 1337 speak event called "Grey Tide Virus" that causes all prison cells to open.

I know this is somewhat unrelated at this point, but greytiding used to have an actual point and purpose. Now it's just a term thrown around to describe any event that involves assistants being shitlords.

Post by **MMMiracles** » Fri Oct 03, 2014 5:58 pm #33323

damiac wrote:So saying the word 'riot' just took control over the other player's poor little minds and made them do evil stuff like PUTTING CARPETS ON THE FLOOR!?!?!?!

The difference between 'riot' and:

[17:58:13]SAY: Oldman Robustin/ForcefulCJS : RIOT
[17:58:13]SAY: Oldman Robustin/ForcefulCJS : RIOT
[17:58:20]SAY: Oldman Robustin/ForcefulCJS : SPREAD CHAOS AND MAYHEM

Is fairly big.

Even if the intent was redecor, they still insisted on doing shit, even after warned by an admin to cut it out, they kept going.

Timbrewolf · Post by **Timbrewolf** » Fri Oct 03, 2014 5:59 pm #33324

Gamarr wrote:CJS breaking into the bridge 'to recarpet it because I CAN' is a separate issue, which deserved a ban, and probably a perma assistant jobban given he incited a riot and he knows better.

No, no, and no?

Breaking into the bridge and fucking around with the floor isn't a ban/permaban worthy offense. It's IC. He didn't steal the intellicard or fuck with the shuttle or go for the fireaxe. He crowbarred the floor.

He incited a riot? He yelled "Riot" over the radio outloud, which is shitty mildly annoying sure, but by the sound of it not a single person really cared or reacted to it. I don't here anyone providing war-torn testimony that Oldman inspired a murder spree on the station. He encouraged someone to help him remodel the floor. Wow that's terrible.

Does he know better? He should probably know better than to just yell "Riot" over comms and not expect something bad to happen for it. It's kinda funny that in this case, nothing really did? The most damage that was done to the station in response to his actions was done by the admin trying to punish him for it. Aint that some shit?

Hibbles · Post by **Hibbles** » Fri Oct 03, 2014 6:09 pm #33327

Alright, I'll flat-out ask why this wasn't put in admin complaints where it belongs. Both the server host, and the most active headmin, have separately sounded off about this and applied measures we thought were needed. This is as concluded as it can ever get.

Oldman Robustin · Fri Oct 03, 2014 6:11 pm

Gamarr wrote:Sticky jumped the gun a little and damaged the bridge and conference room. Let's separate the issues a little, in that his bombing shouldn't have happened (and I apologize for not breeding a better environment in asay during this for Oldmans normal stupid shit). CJS breaking into the bridge 'to recarpet it because I CAN' is a separate issue, which deserved a ban, and probably a perma assistant jobban given he incited a riot and he knows better.

I say that for a few players, because they have been here way, Way long enough to know better and saying otherwise means they are just shit and lying to play stupid so they can get away with being a total fuckwad to the station. They wanna recarpet something, go to chapel, or bar, not the Bridge and Head access area after shouting to riot. No, this is not funny, and if you think it is you can fuck off because it's ass and security shouldn't have be dealing with your stupidity upon everything else.

There is a fine line of acceptable dickery and not acceptable, and CJS routinely in the past has toed this line and why you are still here is beyond me.

Because I have been a positive influence on this server, probably far more than you ever have as a player (not an admin).

When I was playing more heavily last year the "name your favorite player" thread turned my name consistently turned up along with River Reade (or was it Reed Glover?) as the two best characters to play with. I play far less and much more laid back now, but your narrative of me being a shitler constantly trying to ruin everyone's day is simply not true. I still have an admin wish from that thread, can I use it to wish for you to stop being such an idiot?

Recarpeting the bridge as a trespassing greyshirt is the kind of stupid, silly shit that has kept this game alive for as long as it has. The fact that ANYONE thinks that admins have to start banning people for minor, harmless crimes instead of just letting security have their fun is just flat out irrational. SoS just clearly expressed that assistant mobs have the potential to things that are interesting/hilarious and that is desirable even if it requires security to ultimately arrest them.

I can honestly say in my 4+ years of playing on here and Goon that I have never seen assistants breach the bridge for the purpose of re-carpeting it. Watching security try to respond and arrest a bunch of rogue carpenters on the bridge would have easily been the most interesting thing that I saw happen in a round yesterday. Just because you say "ITS NOT INTERESTING, THE MOST INTERESTING ROUNDS ARE THE ONES WHERE NOBODY BREAKS ANY LAWS AND EVERYONE EVENTUALLY GOES BRAINDEAD FROM THE LACK OF ANYTHING HAPPENING" doesn't make it true.

Oldman Robustin · Fri Oct 03, 2014 6:13 pm

Hibbles wrote:Alright, I'll flat-out ask why this wasn't put in admin complaints where it belongs. Both the server host, and the most active headmin, have separately sounded off about this and applied measures we thought were needed. This is as concluded as it can ever get.

Because when it happened:

1) I wasn't sure Sticky was behind the explosions, there were 6 admins on

2) Sticky insisted that this was a new, official policy that was being enforced

Hence my posting in the policy forum. Being gibbed by an admin ruined 1 round, a policy banning almost all minor crimes would diminish countless more. This was a policy problem first and foremost.

Oldman Robustin · Fri Oct 03, 2014 6:16 pm

An0n3 wrote: He incited a riot? He yelled "Riot" over the radio, which is shitty sure, but by the sound of it not a single person really cared or reacted to it. I don't here anyone providing war-torn testimony that Oldman inspired a murder spree on the station. He encouraged someone to help him remodel the floor. Wow that's terrible.

Does he know better? He should probably know better than to just yell "Riot" over comms and not expect something bad to happen for it. It's kinda funny that in this case, nothing really did? The most damage that was done to the station in response to his actions was done by the admin trying to punish him for it. Aint that some shit?

It wasn't even over comms bro.

It was in plain old SAY after we spawned.

Surely Gamarr, Lo6a, or Brotemis will come argue that my personal, vocal, non-radio commnications were even more bannable because my direct presence clearly inspired an unfathomable wave of crime and violence that security couldn't possibly handle on its own.

My old trope as assistant was to shout "NO CAPTAIN, NO RULES" when I spawned as an assistant with no captain aboard. I probably did this about 20-30 times without anyone ever contacting me and I never saw anyone take up crime over this cry. At most someone would parrot it in radio with me, and then we'd just go on and do whatever we had planned for the round anyway.

damiac · Post by **damiac** » Fri Oct 03, 2014 6:28 pm #33334

paprika wrote:Why do people try to take complicated situations and try to boil them down to black-and-white shit to make people look bad or dismantle their arguments?

Even when we have the full information and logs of what happen people just assume shit and ask stupid questions like the post above me.

BEING ON THE BRIDGE UNAUTHORIZED I-IS BANNABLE NOW?? F-FUCKING SHIT ADMINS! when that isn't the full story and never has been

Damiac needs a fucking forum ban this is all he does

The pot calling the kettle black doesn't even cover this...
A more apt analogy might be a 50 square mile oil spill calling a speck of dust black...

Or.... paprika calling literally any other person a shitposter.

Timbrewolf · Post by **Timbrewolf** » Fri Oct 03, 2014 6:41 pm #33342

Oldman Robustin wrote: It wasn't even over comms bro.

kosmos · Post by **kosmos** » Fri Oct 03, 2014 7:02 pm #33346

What does one expect to happen when he decides to steal carpet from the conference room, which can be seen as a high security level place?

Can't one just be a Station Engineer if they wish to decorate things?
Can't he just ask for permission to decorate from HoP/Captain/any other head who has access?
Or maybe become a drone or an Engiborg?
Or wait for another round to roll antag so he can break into places?
Is it really that hard to simply behave while not antag?

damiac · Post by **damiac** » Fri Oct 03, 2014 7:11 pm #33351

The Rules wrote:Mob-mentality / "Shitlers" / "Graytide"

If a mob of crew members swarms the brig, you are free to use lethal force.
A person that is intentionally fucking with security is to be brigged.
Should the brigging fail, he is to be permabrigged.
Should that fail, he is to be executed.
If an individual repeatedly does this, or you suspect him of doing so, you should adminhelp.
If a person that is intentional fucking with security is yelling "rouge sec", or something similar, when the arrest is valid, he should be instantly permabrigged.

Hmm, no mention of the bridge, redecorating, or saying 'riot'... 'greytiding' is specifically a mob of assistants fucking with security, which did not happen in this case.

The Rules wrote:Theft, assault, annoyances, false arrests and sentence times are in-character matters, thus not adminhelp-able.

I'd guess breaking into and carpeting the bridge probably falls under 'annoyances' at worst... So an IC matter, not adminhelp-able (and thus, not bannable, or admin-blowupable)

So... these rules were last updated 12 days ago, so I'd say they're pretty up to date. Yet, the discussion in this thread implies these aren't the real rules at all. So how is a player supposed to know the actual rules? It doesn't make much sense to say "You should know better" when the rules keep changing, and yet the players aren't informed on the official rules list.

Pandarsenic · Post by **Pandarsenic** » Fri Oct 03, 2014 8:37 pm #33373

CJS, don't you call for the riot every round and then complain about gray oppression because you roll with it and lead it to the conference room every time it gets traction and sometimes this results in you getting rekt for starting a gray tide against nothing and nobody for no raisin whenever you can?

Incomptinence · Fri Oct 03, 2014 9:34 pm

I don't think he does it EVERY round, for example it would be really odd for him to incite a riot as a security officer.

paprika · Post by **paprika** » Fri Oct 03, 2014 9:40 pm #33412

damiac wrote:
paprika wrote:Why do people try to take complicated situations and try to boil them down to black-and-white shit to make people look bad or dismantle their arguments?

Even when we have the full information and logs of what happen people just assume shit and ask stupid questions like the post above me.

BEING ON THE BRIDGE UNAUTHORIZED I-IS BANNABLE NOW?? F-FUCKING SHIT ADMINS! when that isn't the full story and never has been

Damiac needs a fucking forum ban this is all he does
The pot calling the kettle black doesn't even cover this...
A more apt analogy might be a 50 square mile oil spill calling a speck of dust black...

Or.... paprika calling literally any other person a shitposter.

At least I play on the /tg/ servers instead of cunting on the forums as a hobby.

bandit · Post by **bandit** » Sat Oct 04, 2014 6:21 am #33538

Oldman Robustin wrote:When I was playing more heavily last year the "name your favorite player" thread turned my name consistently turned up along with River Reade (or was it Reed Glover?) as the two best characters to play with. I play far less and much more laid back now, but your narrative of me being a shitler constantly trying to ruin everyone's day is simply not true. I still have an admin wish from that thread, can I use it to wish for you to stop being such an idiot?

The difference between you and Reed Glover is that he actually does his job and helps people and improves rounds, where this was a case of shitting a round up. Sticky bombing the bridge was wrong, but that doesn't make RIOT RIOT CAUSE CHAOS AND MAYHEM "creative," "hilarious," or any of the supposed reasons people are giving for defending gray tiding.

I guess it's time to shitpost now:

kosmos wrote:What does one expect to happen when he decides to steal carpet from the conference room, which can be seen as a high security level place?

Can't one just be a Station Engineer if they wish to decorate things?
Can't he just ask for permission to decorate from HoP/Captain/any other head who has access?
Or maybe become a drone or an Engiborg?
Or wait for another round to roll antag so he can break into places?
Is it really that hard to simply behave while not antag?

Incomptinence · Sat Oct 04, 2014 6:34 am

Placing carpet, suggest be an engiborg. Engineering cyborgs can't even pick up carpet let alone place it.

bandit · Post by **bandit** » Sat Oct 04, 2014 6:38 am #33544

That's beside the point, which is that if people want their precious creativity and hilariousness, they need to actually demonstrate it. 95% of the graytide on this server is shit like stealing IDs, tabling people, repeatedly disarming and provoking an attack, stealing clown/mime masks, fucking with security and interfering in dull and annoying ways with people trying to do their own thing. The other 5% is people who do the rest of it in other rounds.

Oldman Robustin · Sat Oct 04, 2014 7:52 am

bandit wrote: The difference between you and Reed Glover is that he actually does his job and helps people and improves rounds, where this was a case of shitting a round up. Sticky bombing the bridge was wrong, but that doesn't make RIOT RIOT CAUSE CHAOS AND MAYHEM "creative," "hilarious," or any of the supposed reasons people are giving for defending gray tiding.

CHAOS AND MAYHEM was tongue-in-cheek, if you had above a room-temperature IQ you'd realize that when me and my fellow assistants started TRANSPORTING CARPET that this wasn't a real fucking riot.

As for your first comment, people didn't vote me as one of the best players last year because I would shit up every round. I create entertainment and I generally enrich the rounds that I take part in, go back and read the comments if they're still available. I doubt you will though, talking out of your ass seems to be your specialty.

bandit · Post by **bandit** » Sat Oct 04, 2014 8:08 am #33557

I wasn't in the round, I haven't even really played for a few days, but it is not a stretch to hear RIOT! RIOT! CHAOS AND MAYHEM, and then a mass of assistants breaking into the bridge, as the same old shit. Something as small as transporting carpet can escalate fast -- oh look! It did!

Lo6a4evskiy · Post by **Lo6a4evskiy** » Sat Oct 04, 2014 8:16 am #33559

Can you stop bringing up carpet, CJS? I think we've established that it was not the issue.

Oldman Robustin · Sat Oct 04, 2014 8:18 am

bandit wrote:I wasn't in the round, I haven't even really played for a few days, but it is not a stretch to hear RIOT! RIOT! CHAOS AND MAYHEM, and then a mass of assistants breaking into the bridge, as the same old shit. Something as small as transporting carpet can escalate fast -- oh look! It did!

If you were paying attention to the thread you'd know I didn't even shout that stuff over radio.

You weren't in the round and you clearly aren't reading what actually happened, so it looks like I was right, you're a downright professional when it comes to talking out of your ass.

Oldman Robustin · Sat Oct 04, 2014 8:19 am

Oldman Robustin wrote:
bandit wrote:I wasn't in the round, I haven't even really played for a few days, but it is not a stretch to hear RIOT! RIOT! CHAOS AND MAYHEM, and then a mass of assistants breaking into the bridge, as the same old shit. Something as small as transporting carpet can escalate fast -- oh look! It did!
If you were paying attention to the thread you'd know I didn't even shout that stuff over radio.

You weren't in the round and you clearly aren't reading what actually happened, so it looks like I was right, you're a downright professional when it comes to talking out of your ass.

Lo6a4evskiy wrote:Can you stop bringing up carpet, CJS? I think we've established that it was not the issue.

Since the issue is largely "what is greytiding" and there are several admins here who think that breaking into the bridge to relocate carpet constitutes bannable greytiding, I think its still relevant to the issue.

Lo6a4evskiy · Post by **Lo6a4evskiy** » Sat Oct 04, 2014 9:23 am #33570

It's not, you just use it as a shitty excuse to change the topic from you screaming "RIOT" every round. Every time you're being called on that one you just go "OH BUT WE MOVED CARPT"

Like, you weren't even BWOINKED about that, but for a different matter. How is it relevant?

Stickymayhem · Wed Oct 13, 2021 6:17 pm

Inspiring riots without cause is shitty. He got two assistants to break in with him, and this was immediately after I warned him not to encourage people to do stupid things.

Picking up some carpet and then continuing your behaviour as if the wool rug has magical anti-admin fibres is plain retarded. I sincerely regret clouding the issue with exasperated bombs, but my stupidity should cover for his.

I know greytide. That was greytide. Next time I'll just toss out greybans until you stop. So just stop now.

Kuraudo · Post by **Kuraudo** » Sat Oct 04, 2014 12:49 pm #33597

Stickymayhem wrote:Inspiring riots without cause is shitty. He got two assistants to break in with him, and this was immediately after I warned him not to encourage people to do stupid things.

Picking up some carpet and then continuing your behaviour as if the wool rug has magical anti-admin fibres is plain retarded. I sincerely regret clouding the issue with exasperated bombs, but my stupidity should cover for his.

I know greytide. That was greytide. Next time I'll just toss out greybans until you stop. So just stop now.

As if you can brainwash people through a 2D multiplayer space game to force them to break rules.
You always have the freedom not to. People shouting a gimmical "NO SEC NO RULES" or "RIOT", are not pulling any strings over other people's actions. You decided to break into the Brig after hearing that ? You're the one to blame. You're accountable to your actions.

As a librarian, in another TG-based server, i wrote i book explaining that the banks are using Nanotrasen as a milk cow to generate cash through loans and debt. I gave the book to read to many people and it created some sort of mini-revolution, people got in the bridge and killed the Captain.
All i did i writing a book. Do i deserve bluespace artillery for that ? Personnal responsibility is a key concept to take into consideration when you punish people.

Stickymayhem · Post by **Stickymayhem** » Sat Oct 04, 2014 2:45 pm #33609

By Oldman's own admission he is an influential presence on the server, in-game and otherwise. Someone like that attempting to incite people into doing stupid shit is more likely to succeed, and in this case he did. Some of the other greys present followed his lead in smashing into a highly secure area and tearing the tiles up.

These greys did not escape punishment as I heavy-handedly removed all three directly involved, but they wouldn't have caused shit without oldman starting it.

Oldman, despite this misleading thread title, did not get banned or even threatened with a ban. He ignored a warning to stop and got gibbed for it. I then repaired the bridge. I was stupid but stopping the three of them from continuing to be assholes after a specific and direct warning from an admin was entirely acceptable as SoS already stated.

paprika · Post by **paprika** » Sun Oct 05, 2014 10:34 am #33791

I doubt the singular action influenced oldman getting banned so much as his extensive history of doing shit like this. Sure, maybe it didn't cause a shitstorm ingame this time, but it has the 50 other times he's done it. He was likely also told to stop doing it after the other times. I dunno, could be wrong.