/tg/Station 13

Bottom post of the previous page:

This is related to Paprika's ban for saying the infamous phrase.

As a quick point of clarification, the current rules for IC in OOC say:

The Rules wrote: IC in OOC can be a no warning ban of 15 minutes, it can be longer if the IC in OOC is severe. To clarify, this is revealing anything about the current round that others can use in the OOC channel. If you are unsure do not say it.

This didn't happen here. (the whole ayy lmao thing is OOC in IC, if anything)

The closest rule actually broken was rule 7:

The Rules wrote: 7. Speak like a normal person while in character. Don’t spam, either IC or OOC. Don’t use smileys, netspeak, etc. in IC speech.

And even there, it's a bit questionable. As a real live human, I can say "Ayyy lamayo" out loud. And references to stupid memes aren't just allowed, they're built right into the game(renault, for example).

So why are people getting IC in OOC bans for saying this once? I don't particularly like Paprika, but he/she/it still deserves fair treatment. It just seems kinda heavy handed. I could see bans getting applied for people spamming it, but just for saying it once?

Have you even been paying attention to what I've been saying, at all

Holy shit I'm not repeating myself again because you can't read you fuckass.

I've been paying attention to what you've been saying, and it basically boils down to "15m for memes is too harsh"

Is it really so hard not to be a retarded 8grog memespouter?

It's hard when people say memes like this on a constant basis and I feel like I get singled out because I was the only one getting a ban like that (until the trialmin started handing them out regularly, which he was told to not do)

Seriously the 'you can only say admin-approved memes' shit is getting old, either allow them all or ban them all. Or you know, don't ban for them at all since they're completely harmless and only upset the autism of people like psyentific and aran anyway?

I very rarely do OOC in IC or netspeak and it's never to ruin any immersion like break any kind of roleplay that's happening, and this all threads like this do is make me feel like I was completely right in thinking Aran banned me to pick on me.

And here's the kicker, Aran tried to complain on IRC and make me feel bad because he had to deal with the flak from making a shitty ban. Is it really so hard to not abuse your admin powers to hand out bans left and right just because you have +ban? Do you have to flex your fucking ban boner by making bans for every little insignificant thing?

Oh lordy the bias card...Comeon now, quite a few people are happy some admins are actually enforcing OOC in IC rules that have been around for ages and for once instead of just going "Who cares?" they're actually enforcing them. It's a step in the right direction really.

You're really good at twisting words around to fit in your own little vision of whats happening.
Do you actively work at this?

By the way i'm dropping straight down into ad hominem since arguing with you is going something like "This balloon is green." "Yeah that's fucking great, mine is blue because you slapped the coffee mug off the shelf."

Mat13295 wrote:Oh lordy the bias card...

Doesn't An0n3 making a shitstorm thread directly after my ban pointing out the many other times aran has banned people he didn't like for stupid reasons basically prove this is true though? I'm really sick of it being swept under the rug because no decent admin would make a ban like this, as evidenced by saeg being told to stop.

Speaking of which, Saegrimr, did you ever get that headmin ruling about clown names?

Saegrimr wrote:You're really good at twisting words around to fit in your own little vision of whats happening.
Do you actively work at this?

By the way i'm dropping straight down into ad hominem since arguing with you is going something like "This balloon is green." "Yeah that's fucking great, mine is blue because you slapped the coffee mug off the shelf."

nah hes right tbh
when i see you doing things like banning people for memes or changing names you dont like as a new admin who hasnt been on the server for a long time it provides a big distinction between the past and the present
this is certainly also the case with other admins but you've been the most vocal and supportive of these new policies which i, as a veteran player, take as a sign of /tg/ going to shit
because i think these new policies are shit
call me over-reactionary or doom-mongering, but this isnt the first time, even recently, a new admin or a new policy has popped up, and then suddenly doing shit which should make no sense ordinarily is being accepted by the administration
when these things start happening frequently you can almost visibly see the downward spiral

Why can't we just stick with the old policy and change names that are blatantly idiotic like "Adolf Hitler" or "Changeling".

I mean, jesus, I feel like we are talking about religious tolerance. If you see someone with a "dumb" name just suck it up and move along, just like you do in real life.

Didn't I see someone named Chang Ling on Bay one of the few times I got on it?

Cipher3 wrote:Didn't I see someone named Chang Ling on Bay one of the few times I got on it?

There is someone who goes around with the name "Change E Ling". Funny thing is the rules pretty much said that kind of wording was fine. I'm more so referring to being out right blatant in your names.

CHANG LING WAS THE BEST GENETICIST ON /TG/

I guess this means the name "Cultist Chan" probably isnt going to fly here anymore.

I wonder if the name "Ben Griffin" is borderline acceptable now too.

This thread isn't about someone being called La Mayo, its about someone spouting a meme in IC chat

Malkevin wrote:This thread isn't about someone being called La Mayo, its about someone spouting a meme in IC chat

Whoops, wrong thread.

I say lol sometimes in conversations. Although its impossible to say omg for real I end up saying "O-M-G!" Its not so much as netspeak as its more terms that people already recognize. It would be better if the rules change to something like making it against the rules to say something physically impossible (the omg and o-m-g example above) because as it is, the rules doesn't make much sense. You can say something like "my immersions" to counter that argument but pretty much flawed to begin with because people actually do use netspeak in conversations in real life. Not in a formal setting sure but used nevertheless.

The argument is like saying "don't use honk in a conversation ICly" because honk in a sense of ss13 culture is like netspeak in itself. It has no clear cut meaning which is defined only in certain situations.

Well watch out, you might get banned from real life. In fact, you've already ruined my immersion in real life.

That was sort of my point, while 'lmao' might be considered by some to be unpronounceable, 'La Mayo' isn't. Really, 'ayyyyyy lmao' is perfectly pronounceable anyway, it's no more difficult to pronounce than 'Ngoyen', which is a real name. Omg is also really easy to pronounce, although people might think something is wrong with you if you say it.

Plenty of people say all sorts of netspeak stuff in real life, while nobody on earth can say ":-)" or "=P". That's where 'mah immersiuns' get busted up, and where the line should be drawn, in my opinion.

Of course, if people are spamming the radio with some dumb phrase, it shouldn't really matter how dumb that particular phrase is. That's where the 15 minute ban should come in.

Pretty much What Damiac has said. Even if I find it personally disgusting, someone saying lol, or oh em gee in IC, is fine (unless they're being a spamming unironic shitter). Saying XD or shit that you literally can't say, is where it's retarded.

you can say ECKS DEE

All the bans for this have done is make people say shitty memes IC more, I've actually noticed a large increase in the volume of people doing it just to mock admins, good job ayyranclmaos and saegrimr

So what your saying is that next time I hear someone say "lol" or something akin, is to rage at them, tell them they just broke my immersion and demand that god ban them from life.

I mean, I've had a few friends in the past that would just say lol when they heard something funny, no one was annoyed and it was normal to me. I belive that people just occasionaly saying these words are fine, however if they just spam these words for the sake of it then they should be told to tone it down.

Its like swearing all the time, your fully allowed to swear. But your going to get a talking to if your continually spouting "shit cunt" every three seconds. We don't ban for swearing and arguable more people in real life get ticked off from people swearing than them saying ayy lamo.

most people in real life dont know what ayy lmao even is, so yes

This rule is pretty dumb. I've seen people type words incorrectly before. Is that improper because in real life people can't misspell a word when speaking? If someone says "pls respond", is that not allowed because it's also a meme? Not to mention you can say all these things in real life and people do. Can I no longer write "ur a faget" on paper and throw it at syndies? Can people with names like "Mai Emershon" no longer play because it's a reference to "my immersion!" (a jab at people who bitch over shit breaking immersion and a tgstation meme)?

And all you do when you make arbitrary rules like these is draw attention to X forbidden thing and make people want to do it more. If you just let it die and let people do it, nobody's gonna give a shit and move on. It's some passing phrase people say like any other meme/phrase on the internet. Cracking down on it just shows you don't like it, and makes people want to shove it in your face even more. Rules for IC in OOC is understandable, but OOC in IC is a little grey area. For that matter, we shouldn't even have people playing modern songs on the piano/minimoog, mention games, etc., because most of these things are only in OUR OOC world, and likely do not exist in the fictional realm of SS13 because nobody would even remember those things several hundred years from now. There's got to be a time when you simply say "that's dumb" and let it go. Especially given all the other stuff on here "ayyy lmao" isn't that big of a deal, let's be honest. I've seen people use it a handful of times and never was my round in utter ruins because of it. My round did not come to a screeching halt when Ian made "doge" references. None of that ruins the fun of the game.

People using "ayyy lmao" is stupid, but it is something you can say, and if we're going that far with it, then there's a LOT of other shit here that also needs to go, because it's references to things in our OOC universe and world, and not the fictional 2d spaceman game. So, either go all out and make sweeping changes in the game, or just grow up a little and stop getting mad over childish and petty shit like a meme that came from a picture of a fake looking alien laughing.

Erisian wrote:This rule is pretty dumb. I've seen people type words incorrectly before. Is that improper because in real life people can't misspell a word when speaking?

Typos happen, and sometimes people bite their tounge.

Erisian wrote:If someone says "pls respond", is that not allowed because it's also a meme?

Halfway correct, because "pls" is chatspeak and wasn't allowed anyway.

Erisian wrote:Can I no longer write "ur a faget" on paper and throw it at syndies?

I think you're missing the point. Its not about "memes" its about netspeak IC.

Erisian wrote:Can people with names like "Mai Emershon" no longer play because it's a reference to "my immersion!" (a jab at people who bitch over shit breaking immersion and a tgstation meme)?

An entirely different policy for an entirely different thread, but yes that is allowed.

Erisian wrote:And all you do when you make arbitrary rules like these is draw attention to X forbidden thing and make people want to do it more. -- Cracking down on it just shows you don't like it, and makes people want to shove it in your face even more.

Then they can eat incrementally longer bans until they realize their next ban will be a year long.

Saegrimr wrote:

Erisian wrote:This rule is pretty dumb. I've seen people type words incorrectly before. Is that improper because in real life people can't misspell a word when speaking?

Typos happen, and sometimes people bite their tounge.

Erisian wrote:If someone says "pls respond", is that not allowed because it's also a meme?

Halfway correct, because "pls" is chatspeak and wasn't allowed anyway.

Erisian wrote:Can I no longer write "ur a faget" on paper and throw it at syndies?

I think you're missing the point. Its not about "memes" its about netspeak IC.

Erisian wrote:Can people with names like "Mai Emershon" no longer play because it's a reference to "my immersion!" (a jab at people who bitch over shit breaking immersion and a tgstation meme)?

An entirely different policy for an entirely different thread, but yes that is allowed.

Erisian wrote:And all you do when you make arbitrary rules like these is draw attention to X forbidden thing and make people want to do it more. -- Cracking down on it just shows you don't like it, and makes people want to shove it in your face even more.

Then they can eat incrementally longer bans until they realize their next ban will be a year long.

And sometimes people use dumb netspeak in real life. I can say "el oh el" in real life. So, by that logic, I should be able to say "lol" in character. Or, at least type it phonetically as a person who is speaking would say it. The only thing I've never heard people say are emoticons. That'd be the only real netspeak people don't say in real life. And if people can roleplay as retards, and get brain damage in game, what would be the immersion breaking differences between the various other references in game vs some guy who uses netspeak? I'm just not seeing how this ruins rounds. I thought admins were there to prevent griefing, keep rounds fun, and just ensure things flow smoothly. How does "ayyy lmao" in any way make a round better or worse? I'm just not seeing the big deal. I agree that it's stupid and retarded, but I'm just not seeing the harm here at all enough to ban people for it. Aren't bans supposed to be positive reinforcement to promote good behavior, not punish behavior we dislike?

Erisian wrote:Aren't bans supposed to be positive reinforcement to promote good behavior, not punish behavior we dislike?

When the hell have bans from anything ever been positive reinforcement? Unless you want me to spawn a cookie for every time someone doesn't say something retarded IC.
Did I miss something here?

I know nothing I say will make me not sound like turbo-hitler here, but if bans were a positive thing then i'd be the most beloved admin in this thread.

Saegrimr wrote:

Erisian wrote:This rule is pretty dumb. I've seen people type words incorrectly before. Is that improper because in real life people can't misspell a word when speaking?

Typos happen, and sometimes people bite their tounge.

Saegrimr wrote:tounge

I'm left to wonder if this is a subtle joke or a legitimate spelling error.

This string of threads is making me absolutely hate policy discussion and those same people who bring up the same points for eight pages while failing to realize that nobody else cares.

Erisian wrote:Aren't bans supposed to be positive reinforcement to promote good behavior, not punish behavior we dislike?

And I'm not even sure what this is.

Cipher3 wrote:those same people who bring up the same points for eight pages while failing to realize that nobody else cares.

bringing up the points that nobody is responding to because they have no actual answer other than "its the rules"

miggles wrote:admins
[youtube]NgRkqlXzVz8[/youtube]

So essentially the reason for this crackdown on one random arbitrary particular internet meme is because 'We don't like it, and we'll ban you if you do it'.

This is a game filled with stupid fucking memes, which everyone seems to love. This is just the administration being incredibly self-important, this isn't for the benefit of people actually playing the game. It's just Saegrimr flexing his petty authority.

My understanding is they spammed it at each other in IRC until they could no longer stand it.

Saegrimr wrote:Netspeak in-character will get you in trouble. I don't see what's so hard to understand about this.
The complaint was that instead of a stern talking to, he got a slap on the wrist, but that slap was TOO MUCH because of "muh antag round!"

My usual go-to for people saying retarded things in-character was to make them actually retarded with crippling brain damage. I was then told it'd just be a blanket 15 minute ooc in ic ban, so thats how i've been handling it since.

Is there a thing against using netspeak in PDA messages? I never really use meme's or netspeak outside of pda messages, other than the occasional "ooc lol". I frequently netspeak meme in pda messages, is this a bad thing to do? I think if you're going to netspeak/meme IC it makes the most sense to keep it strictly pda messages.

PDA messages are the spaceman version of text messages
if someone tries to say you cant use netspeak in text messages ill blow a gasket

Correct. It's like texting except more retro-sci-fi. Announcement consoles are more ambiguous since they could be like a PA system thing or a text system of some kind but I'd also probably allow things like smileys on the announcer.

Yeah announcements are a bit of a grey zone, as when central command sends one it's automatically printed off for heads to read. My headcanon is that announcements are beamed directly into the crews heads and interpreted as a mixture of visual and audio. (I support this with Nanotrasen's ability to respond to calls to centcom directly to heads)

Violaceus wrote:I always though CentCom/priority/desk announcements are voice announcements.

This especially when most of out annoucements for events or whatever are all written in a sort of first-person "royal we" format.

If chat speak is such a big deal then add a dam filter, don't start handing out bans for this nonsense. Better yet make the filter convert it to proper English, but I doubt anybody would bother with such a waste of time.

I'd rather people type less like a 12 year old than see a chat filter added that might break other things.

CentComm announcements always struck me as some kind of thought-speak thing. Otherwise how can mimes do it?

bandit wrote:CentComm announcements always struck me as some kind of thought-speak thing. Otherwise how can mimes do it?

Time to start lynching more mimes.

Also, anyone who knows anything about word filters knows that you can never make one robust enough not to be exploited be somebody intent on being an idiot. Here's an idea. Wordfilter yourself so you stop typing like a high school girl on a cell phone.

Centcom announcements check for deafness, so it's definitely done with sound.

This is terrible. I never once got any sort of ban for saying ANYTHING. I could spit out as twisted a sentence as I liked for funny amusement and not have to worry about it. Grammatical and spelling incorrectness can translate to the way something is said. saegrimr got me for saying "i wanna be wit u bby"

What the fuck guys who thought this was an ok idea?

Looks like you're not lmaoing any more

ayy lmao

If I'm totally honest I'm not really sure why its such a big deal. If its because it can spoil immersion then you can always play along with it, i.e:

Random Ass says: Ayy Lmao!
Me says: I-is there something wrong with you? I can't understand what your trying to say.

Or just Scott Pilgrim it:

actually yeah whats the point of banning people for saying memes and shit when you can word filter it if you care so much

Probably wouldn't take that long to put a word filter in too, honestly.

A word filter that can be turned on/off for each player individually, let's you customise your game play experience.

Everyone wins.

I want to bleep swear words

Starting with your sig?

If you've ever posted on 4chan for longer than a week, you'll know exactly why wordfilters are stupid.