Free golems retailation on the crew.

[Shezza]

To what degree and at what point can free golems retailate against the crew.

Especially during the following scenarios

1. A golem being killed by a nonantag
2. A golem being a shitter gets killed by a nonantag
2. A golem being killed by security instead of non-lehtaly detained.
3. Free golems ordered to be kill on sight by captain/security.

Because the things you can ahelp about as free golem and not get your ahelp instantly closed as "ic issue" is quite limited this is would be a rather important guideline for escalation purposes.

[Incomptinence]

Looting or killing an extremely industrious golem who is a better contributor to the station than 50-70% of the crew shouldn't be free game just because GHOST ROLE!!!1!!

People who play like griffbots should be bottom of the pile instead.

[Dax Dupont]

Looting or killing an extremely industrious golem who is a better contributor to the station than 50-70% of the crew shouldn't be free game just because GHOST ROLE!!!1!!

People who play like griffbots should be bottom of the pile instead.

In this situation they were killed because they stole the antique laser from someone.

We already established that destroying/boh bombing the station over something relatively minor is an hilariously bad response.
https://tgstation13.org/phpBB/viewtopic ... 33&t=15714

Feel free to use the existing thread.

[Shezza]

Looting or killing an extremely industrious golem who is a better contributor to the station than 50-70% of the crew shouldn't be free game just because GHOST ROLE!!!1!!

People who play like griffbots should be bottom of the pile instead.

In this situation they were killed because they stole the antique laser from someone.

We already established that destroying/boh bombing the station over something relatively minor is an hilariously bad response.
https://tgstation13.org/phpBB/viewtopic ... 33&t=15714

Feel free to use the existing thread.

What are you reffering to?

Certainly to nothing within the thread

Please read to OP

[Dax Dupont]

Looting or killing an extremely industrious golem who is a better contributor to the station than 50-70% of the crew shouldn't be free game just because GHOST ROLE!!!1!!

People who play like griffbots should be bottom of the pile instead.

In this situation they were killed because they stole the antique laser from someone.

We already established that destroying/boh bombing the station over something relatively minor is an hilariously bad response.
https://tgstation13.org/phpBB/viewtopic ... 33&t=15714

Feel free to use the existing thread.

What are you reffering to?

Certainly to nothing within the thread

The situation that obviously prompted this question.

[Shezza]

Looting or killing an extremely industrious golem who is a better contributor to the station than 50-70% of the crew shouldn't be free game just because GHOST ROLE!!!1!!

People who play like griffbots should be bottom of the pile instead.

In this situation they were killed because they stole the antique laser from someone.

We already established that destroying/boh bombing the station over something relatively minor is an hilariously bad response.
https://tgstation13.org/phpBB/viewtopic ... 33&t=15714

Feel free to use the existing thread.

What are you reffering to?

Certainly to nothing within the thread

The situation that obviously prompted this question.

The situation where the captain started lasering a golem for being in his busted open office and then killing another golem for daring to disarm him despite having nonlethal options?

Check the logs.

[Shezza]

Also please stop derailing this thread if you are disinformed, this isnt about you or that situation.

[Incomptinence]

Ghost roles are overly maligned a player is a player and if you really want to make people suffer consistently you start on the station with them in close proximity with a guaranteed spawn and access to escalation/tiding anyway.

The one case where it becomes absolutely worse is meta revenge for your previous life as the ghost role.

[feem]

1. A golem being killed by a nonantag
2. A golem being a shitter gets killed by a nonantag
3. A golem being killed by security instead of non-lehtaly detained.
4. Free golems ordered to be kill on sight by captain/security.

with the understanding that i have very little belief that this post is in good faith and that none of these situations contain enough information to draw a reasonable conclusion, and with the caveat that i fixed your numbering:

1) it's very likely i would investigate this like any non-ghostrole situation: players probably shouldn't be killing players for no reason; however, because rules are relaxed against ghost roles, if there is a REASONABLE explanation for the behavior, it is possible that that relaxation component will be relevant and that there will be no actionable issue here
2) start shit get hit; lavaland ghost roles such as ashwalker and golem should not be used for station greytiding apropos of nothing.
3) hybrid of 1 and 2, security component not as relevant as it would be in a normal crew situation: start shit get hit but if you're being killed for no reason we'll look into it.
4) this is basically 1 and 3 again.

There's no quick and dirty answer to this except what's already been said repeatedly: that ghost roles are NOT replacements for regular player slots and that you need to follow your flavor text, and that they're more focused on 'RP' -- which in this case doesn't just mean 'emote puts hat on head and dances' but also means creating a story/narrative with the character. You spawn in as a golem, slowly build up your collection of people, end up going to a destroyed station after making contact with a miner and fix the station/save the day // are immediately expelled/end up destroying the mining shuttle to prevent your people being hurt again (NOTICE THIS IS DIFFERENT FROM DESTROYING THE STATION), that's fine.

You spawn in as a golem and immediately go to the station and start shoving people in medbay who are trying to help others then ahelp when someone dunks you? No.

Your life is cheap so you have fewer protections, but that doesn't mean you can be valided in any situation for literally no reason. On the other hand, if there are REASONS for an action taken against you while you're a ghost role, you're going to get less protection than a 'real' character.

Keep rule 1 in mind, understand that ghost roles aren't replacements for regular roles, and be willing to create a narrative -- and more than anything else, HAVE REASONS FOR YOUR ACTIONS WITHIN THE FRAMEWORK OF YOUR CHARACTER'S EXPERIENCES -- and you'll be fine.

Otherwise, all normal rules apply.

[feem]

As a follow up, there's really never going to be a situation where golems/ash walkers/beach bums/veterinarians BoH bombing or maxcapping the station ends up being entirely okay.

There are many situations which could, given sufficient escalation and RP opportunity/round development, lead to destructive behavior, up to and including murder parties and sabotage, and MAYBE in an extreme -- and I'm talking super extreme -- situation, a BoH bomb of opportunity. But this should never be the goal, the primary weapon, or the desired outcome, because it's going to cause a headache for everyone, especially the person who pulls the trigger.

The bigger the thing you're doing, the more DAMN GOOD reasons you have to have to do it as a non-antag.

[Shezza]

Thanks for being more helpfull than dax feem

[WarbossLincoln]

In my experience if you aren't a normal crewman you're 100% valid all the time. That's what I've been told on at least 3 occasions by different admins after being killed for doing nothing while not a normal station race.

Edit: I was also told that you can retaliate against the specific person attacking you freely. Like once as a monkey some dude kept trying to kill me even when I hadn't done anything(sometimes as a monkey I've been annoying and gotten dunked, but not always) and myself and 2 sympathetic crewmen lynched the guy. Admin said that was fine since the guy started shit for no reason at all.

[Arianya]

In my experience if you aren't a normal crewman you're 100% valid all the time. That's what I've been told on at least 3 occasions by different admins after being killed for doing nothing while not a normal station race.

Edit: I was also told that you can retaliate against the specific person attacking you freely. Like once as a monkey some dude kept trying to kill me even when I hadn't done anything(sometimes as a monkey I've been annoying and gotten dunked, but not always) and myself and 2 sympathetic crewmen lynched the guy. Admin said that was fine since the guy started shit for no reason at all.

The specifics in our rules are:

Follow the flavour text you receive upon spawning to the best of your abilities. Unlike the rest of the rules, these roles are very much defined and guided by roleplay rather than a system of "valid" or "not valid."
Your life is cheap though, and escalation rules are greatly relaxed both for you and any crewmembers interacting with you.

Despite the second line being about escalation, the first line is also important. If you're an ashlizard you're openly antagonistic from the word go, whereas if you're a free golem you're effectively neutral.

You shouldn't be chasing a end condition of "this allows me to [invade the station]/[BoH bomb]/etc" as a free golem, you should be chilling in your lavaland spaceship and building cool shit. If the miners decide to fuck with you, they get their own back when they get murdered with advanced weaponry/bluespace crystalled into lava/etc, and if they try to ahelp it they'll get ignored or even told off for near-banbaiting.

[kevinz000]

How do we even have so many threads on golem bohbombing

[Lazengann]

Actually ashwalkers are allowed to grief the station in any way they please, including flooding plasma and fucking up the supermatter. I think it's stupid but I didn't make the ruling.

[somerandomguy]

How do we even have so many threads on golem bohbombing

• people think bohbombs are cool
• bohbombs can only be done as antag
• some people think all lavaland roles are antags and/or use the confusion to griff without getting permad
• bohbombs take you out of the round
• golems let you get back in the round cheaply
• golems have easy access to bohs

[Dax Dupont]

How do we even have so many threads on golem bohbombing

You would expect people to have common sense but yet here we are again.

The wheel goes round and round.

[onleavedontatme]

If the station declares full scale war on you then you can use full scale war methods on the station

If you're in spats with individual humans you can't nuke the entire station in response any more than you can max cap the brig because the clown slipped you

I know I'm stupid for even saying this but this feels like complete common sense

[Armhulen]

BECAUSE IT IS