Lavaland roles using ruin items

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Should lavaland roles be able to use ruins?

Hell yeah
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71%
No way
5
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Total votes : 17

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Lavaland roles using ruin items

Postby Shadowflame909 » Sat Jun 16, 2018 4:05 pm #418535

I guess it's better to brand this in general, but I've taken notice to Lavaland roles like the beach bum or the Lavaland hermit being able to go around the xenomorph ruin circumvent all of the fighting and break through the back of it and get facehuggered.

Now every time I've asked an admin about if this is punishable the answer usually is "Yeah, but since they didn't intentionally do it or since it's only a one time thing and they personally aren't causing any devastation. It's not really punishable in this scenario." I personally find it really odd that ash lizards, lavaland hermit and beach-bums are allowed to circumvent there role text in favor of using ruin items that are left for the miners to find.

For Example: The lavaland hermits goal is to find survivors and get to the station. So why can it use prides mirror and float off into space?

2. The beach bums goal is to party. So why should it mine all the way around a ruin, get a facehugger and get away with causing a round ending antagonist to appear.

3. The ash-lizards goal is to kill fauna and increase there numbers. So what's with them being able to roll for the die of fate and potentially become a wizard?

The problem is the boundaries of what they can and cannot do, and I've noticed that as long as the non-antagonist roles don't DIRECTLY harm anyone. They can get away with a lot. I think that if we want a higher RP standard like we've been saying we do. We should enforce how these roles are played and how limited they are to lavaland and the effect on it.

Any thoughts? Am I wrong in what I'm saying? I'm open to any sort of different ideas of how you think these roles function and or how they're fine where they're at.

Edit: Cleared up my second paragraph.
Second Edit: My reason for making this is because I was asked to make a policy discussion thread by two different people.

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Re: Lavaland roles using ruin items

Postby Shezza » Sat Jun 16, 2018 4:24 pm #418537

Example one, hermit has 4 different flavor texts. Atleast one of them encourages return to the station and one is against it.

Example two, beach ruin has nothing fun it in, but going out of your way to metagame xenos location is lame as fuck.

Example three, as far as i remember ashwalker flavor text talks about nanotrasen invading lavalands, the less OP stuff in hands of dirty humans the better.
But then some people want to be friendly ashwalkers, and that's even more cancerous.

>The problem is the boundaries of what they can and cannot do
Its a ghost role so noone cares, people are often banned from them for abuse.

Personally I think the issue is the typical /tg/ player which is 4th wall breaking validhunter that thinks despacito is still funny.

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Re: Lavaland roles using ruin items

Postby Shadowflame909 » Sat Jun 16, 2018 4:43 pm #418538

It's a ghost role, if they have such a huge chance to impact the round CURRENTLY. (Rolling a die of fate, being able to metagame every ruin currently and get away with it.)

They should face some limitations should they not? With the amount of freedom that they have via talking to the admins about them so far. You can basically call them psuedo antagonists.

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ThanatosRa wrote:My biggest problem is that I can't fix any of this.


Boris wrote:shadowflame either has a brain the size of a pea or one the size of the moon and he's playing 58D chess.


BeeSting12 wrote:please write an apology to this forums, this community, the host, and the internet as a whole for the data storage space you wasted with this complaint.


BebeYoshi wrote:Saltyflame909


Cobby wrote:The trash bin... have you lost your way home anon?

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Re: Lavaland roles using ruin items

Postby Grazyn » Sat Jun 16, 2018 5:13 pm #418542

Ash lizards are a hostile role and hostile=antag and antag=no rules so they should be allowed to roll the die, release xenos and so on

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Re: Lavaland roles using ruin items

Postby Shadowflame909 » Sat Jun 16, 2018 5:24 pm #418545

I guess ash-lizards would have more leeway to this than other roles. But I feel like they shouldn't be allowed to prides mirror and use another race to antagonist with. Like turning into a runic golem or a nightmare and being an antagonist with it would be really terrible.

I also feel like if they go into the xenomorph ruin to kill the mobs to expand their race. That's good, but if they go around it and weld the back to get face-huggered. Then that's against their role text.

Edit: Also turning into a wizard via die of fate and turning into a morph doesn't help there initial goal either. So I'm more disagreeing with you now that I think about it. Unless the ruin contains fauna for them to kill and increase their numbers. None of them actually help them achieve their goal.

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ThanatosRa wrote:My biggest problem is that I can't fix any of this.


Boris wrote:shadowflame either has a brain the size of a pea or one the size of the moon and he's playing 58D chess.


BeeSting12 wrote:please write an apology to this forums, this community, the host, and the internet as a whole for the data storage space you wasted with this complaint.


BebeYoshi wrote:Saltyflame909


Cobby wrote:The trash bin... have you lost your way home anon?

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Re: Lavaland roles using ruin items

Postby Dax Dupont » Sat Jun 16, 2018 5:34 pm #418548

Just a FYI we generally delete people who spawn as a ghost role just to rush the ruins.

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Re: Lavaland roles using ruin items

Postby Shadowflame909 » Sat Jun 16, 2018 6:45 pm #418550

So they're already supposed to get punished for this? Where's the punishment! I'd say we need to set it in stone with a hard ruling so that ghost roles should stop doing it.
It's pretty aggravating, also here's a nice little screen shot from the last round on bagil that you were playing in DaxDupont. I think that not even an hour after this PR has been made the exact scenario I was referencing happened and its quite baffling.

Image

People who play ghost roles clearly don't know that admins will delete them for this.

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ThanatosRa wrote:My biggest problem is that I can't fix any of this.


Boris wrote:shadowflame either has a brain the size of a pea or one the size of the moon and he's playing 58D chess.


BeeSting12 wrote:please write an apology to this forums, this community, the host, and the internet as a whole for the data storage space you wasted with this complaint.


BebeYoshi wrote:Saltyflame909


Cobby wrote:The trash bin... have you lost your way home anon?

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Re: Lavaland roles using ruin items

Postby Ayy Lemoh » Sat Jun 16, 2018 7:31 pm #418554

Shadowflame909 wrote:It's pretty aggravating, also here's a nice little screen shot from the last round on bagil that you were playing in DaxDupont. I think that not even an hour after this PR has been made the exact scenario I was referencing happened and its quite baffling.

ah, im glad one of us found that

one of us welded the door shut then i spawned me and a bunch of guys to outfuck anyone who dared to metagame their way over.

we got welderbombed then and i killed one of them because the other had already suicided when the door was welded.

However, yeah, we should delete them

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Re: Lavaland roles using ruin items

Postby Shadowflame909 » Sat Jun 16, 2018 7:41 pm #418555

I know this I was there. But I say it should be enforced harder then admins abusing them. It's Metagame, not naming yourself adolf hitler!

Edit: I was also the one who ahelped it after complaining about it in deadchat for 5 minutes

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ThanatosRa wrote:My biggest problem is that I can't fix any of this.


Boris wrote:shadowflame either has a brain the size of a pea or one the size of the moon and he's playing 58D chess.


BeeSting12 wrote:please write an apology to this forums, this community, the host, and the internet as a whole for the data storage space you wasted with this complaint.


BebeYoshi wrote:Saltyflame909


Cobby wrote:The trash bin... have you lost your way home anon?

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Re: Lavaland roles using ruin items

Postby Nilons » Sat Jun 16, 2018 8:02 pm #418557

Using ghost knowledge to find them is already bannable

otherwise who cares let people have fun with their ghost roles it wont affect the station 99% of the time
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Re: Lavaland roles using ruin items

Postby BeeSting12 » Sat Jun 16, 2018 8:13 pm #418558

i didnt even read this thread but metaing the xenos location and facehugging yourself/others has always been bannable and at very least leads to your deletion

other than that the beach bum ruin sucks anyway and should be removed but if its not removed they should be allowed to act as a friendly ghost role
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Re: Lavaland roles using ruin items

Postby Shadowflame909 » Sat Jun 16, 2018 8:33 pm #418561

Nilons wrote:Using ghost knowledge to find them is already bannable

otherwise who cares let people have fun with their ghost roles it wont affect the station 99% of the time


This is literally my argument, all non-antag ghost roles without anything interesting to do are used for is to metagame ruins. Beachgoers. The hermit. If they don't teach you how to play, (podperson teaches you how to do botany. golem teaches you RND, lavaland syndies, chemistry and viro.) Then it's just a metagame fest.

Edit: I'm just saying forcing them to do there roles would remove all aspects of metagame loopholes. It just makes things easier and more simple.

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ThanatosRa wrote:My biggest problem is that I can't fix any of this.


Boris wrote:shadowflame either has a brain the size of a pea or one the size of the moon and he's playing 58D chess.


BeeSting12 wrote:please write an apology to this forums, this community, the host, and the internet as a whole for the data storage space you wasted with this complaint.


BebeYoshi wrote:Saltyflame909


Cobby wrote:The trash bin... have you lost your way home anon?

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Re: Lavaland roles using ruin items

Postby Saegrimr » Sat Jun 16, 2018 8:55 pm #418566

I think he's complaining that not 100% of people who do it get caught.
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Re: Lavaland roles using ruin items

Postby iksyp » Sat Jun 16, 2018 9:27 pm #418571

"should players be allowed to use what they find in a dangerous area"
ignore this poster he has brain damage

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Re: Lavaland roles using ruin items

Postby Lazengann » Sat Jun 16, 2018 10:18 pm #418579

Who cares if beach bums use the pride mirror

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Re: Lavaland roles using ruin items

Postby Shadowflame909 » Sat Jun 16, 2018 10:37 pm #418580

Saegrimr wrote:I think he's complaining that not 100% of people who do it get caught.


It's not that they don't get caught. It's just that from what I've seen is there's always a reason for why they don't get punished???

Edit: If I knew that reason this thread would be more coherent I promise.

Spoiler:
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ThanatosRa wrote:My biggest problem is that I can't fix any of this.


Boris wrote:shadowflame either has a brain the size of a pea or one the size of the moon and he's playing 58D chess.


BeeSting12 wrote:please write an apology to this forums, this community, the host, and the internet as a whole for the data storage space you wasted with this complaint.


BebeYoshi wrote:Saltyflame909


Cobby wrote:The trash bin... have you lost your way home anon?

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Re: Lavaland roles using ruin items

Postby Dr_bee » Sun Jun 17, 2018 12:47 am #418590

It seems Shadow wont be happy until all fun is removed from ghost roles. If they are bum-rushing xenos ruins to fuck with the round then sure, they need a ban, but if they are just doing shit that isnt effecting anyone else why do you have your panties in a twist about it?

OH NO PEOPLE ARE HAVING FUN THE WRONG WAY, THE HORROR!

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Re: Lavaland roles using ruin items

Postby BeeSting12 » Sun Jun 17, 2018 2:11 am #418596

so basically hes unhappy these people arent getting punished the way he wants them to be.

guess thats a wrap folks, lock up this one, we are done here. go to admin complaints if you think an admin is applying the rules incorrectly
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Re: Lavaland roles using ruin items

Postby somerandomguy » Sun Jun 17, 2018 3:41 am #418604

Dr_bee wrote:It seems Shadow wont be happy until all fun is removed from ghost roles. If they are bum-rushing xenos ruins to fuck with the round then sure, they need a ban, but if they are just doing shit that isnt effecting anyone else why do you have your panties in a twist about it?

OH NO PEOPLE ARE HAVING FUN THE WRONG WAY, THE HORROR!

The issue is that people basically always use metainfo to get to them

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Re: Lavaland roles using ruin items

Postby Grazyn » Sun Jun 17, 2018 7:21 am #418623

Shadowflame909 wrote:
Saegrimr wrote:I think he's complaining that not 100% of people who do it get caught.


It's not that they don't get caught. It's just that from what I've seen is there's always a reason for why they don't get punished???

Edit: If I knew that reason this thread would be more coherent I promise.

That's because ghost is the only role everyone plays constantly at least once during a round. Therefore there's always someone who spawns as a ghost role and breaks the rules but it's not always the same guy, and admins can't catch everyone. You should ask for stats but I guess admins ban a lot more ghost roles than you can see, but you obviously end up noticing more those who slip through and go unpunished

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Re: Lavaland roles using ruin items

Postby Shadowflame909 » Sun Jun 17, 2018 11:08 am #418634

Dr_bee wrote:It seems Shadow wont be happy until all fun is removed from ghost roles. If they are bum-rushing xenomorphs ruins to fuck with the round then sure, they need a ban, but if they are just doing shit that isnt effecting anyone else why do you have your panties in a twist about it?

OH NO PEOPLE ARE HAVING FUN THE WRONG WAY, THE HORROR!


Straw-manning hard. If a policy got through such as this one, how would it *really* effect any ghost roles in a negative way? Lavaland Golems can still hunt for ores to improve themselves and make more of themselves. They can still do RND and get to the station. They just can't get gluttony's blessing and start murder-boning people as a ghost role.

Lavaland syndies would be the same, Lavaland Ash Lizards would still be the same. All it'd really do is prevent "Different Guy A has just metagamed a ghost role ruin and has gotten away with it because this is the first time he's gotten caught for doing so." Every single round! If all you guys can really say is "Boo Hoo Shadowflame I don't like this because change is bad and change is different." Well, how would this really change anything other than the number of friendly ghost roles getting away with being lavaland antag?

I don't really care that it'd be the first time John Smith has meta-gamed the xenomorph ruin and potentially ruined the round for everybody. If there was an actual policy preventing that and forcing beach bum john smith to stay in his beach dome and party like he's supposed to. None of this would be needed. If you don't want to be a beach go-er anymore? Well there's other Lavaland roles for you as well. It also really shows how people really enjoy abusing these ghost roles as well.

Edit:
SomeRandomGuy wrote:The issue is that people basically always use metainfo to get to them


Exactly, and since Lavaland hermit had no *apparent* malicious intent. Should every single person who got traitor that round just accept getting their roundfucked over by a xenomorph infestation 20 minutes into the round? Or a golem who just got wizard suddenly rod forming everyone?

Grazyn wrote:That's because a ghost is the only role everyone plays constantly at least once during a round. Therefore there's always someone who spawns in a ghost role and breaks the rules but it's not always the same guy, and admins can't catch everyone. You should ask for stats but I guess admins ban a lot more ghost roles than you can see, but you obviously end up noticing more those who slip through and go unpunished


Thank you for clearing up my reasoning a bit while giving your own argument. Bagil has a very high population, and so there's always gonna be a new person in that beach bum role doing something wild. Maybe admins will delete them for mining a diagonal way straight to the back of the xenomorph hive with a welder in the other hand. Yet more then twice now from completely separate people. The admins have told me that these things are just not punishable for some reason or another via rule loopholing. Like...If they don't get the xenomorph in the hive that they meta-gamed the location of, it's not self antagging. As someone else got the big bad. Or that, by mining around the lava instead of just going straight down. There's no way to prove it was really metagame because they could also just say. "I was just mining my own route across this lava." All in all, I've seen a whole lot of rule loopholing. Admins catch these guys and can't punish them. So this is why I want a more clearer policy so admins can punish them. Because the beach bum or the Lavaland hermit shouldn't see the xenomorph ruin and go inside of it for "no reason xDD" They should ignore it and focus on what their role text tells them to do.

The beach bums are partiers who specifically stay in there Biome. So why are we accepting that they just role for wizard? Antag role text is used as a justification for why ash lizards can't do certain things. Why should it completely be ignored for other roles?
Last edited by Shadowflame909 on Sun Jun 17, 2018 11:19 am, edited 1 time in total.

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ThanatosRa wrote:My biggest problem is that I can't fix any of this.


Boris wrote:shadowflame either has a brain the size of a pea or one the size of the moon and he's playing 58D chess.


BeeSting12 wrote:please write an apology to this forums, this community, the host, and the internet as a whole for the data storage space you wasted with this complaint.


BebeYoshi wrote:Saltyflame909


Cobby wrote:The trash bin... have you lost your way home anon?

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Re: Lavaland roles using ruin items

Postby Grazyn » Sun Jun 17, 2018 11:19 am #418635

The beach comes with gas mask, air tank and mining equipment, there's nothing preventing you to leave, policy and code-wise. Going straight to the nearest ruin or mining outpost is definitely metagaming and every observer should ahelp when they see such a thing. "Accidentally" stumbling on a ruin and using the stuff inside should be allowed, but at least pretend you're not beelining for it.

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Re: Lavaland roles using ruin items

Postby Shadowflame909 » Sun Jun 17, 2018 11:22 am #418636

I'd have to question then, why are they allowed to leave? Seriously, what use is allowing that role to leave? All they can do is beeline for ruins, the mining outpost to get back into the round KNOWING what round type it is. I'm starting to believe that these lavaland ruins who just give free spawners weren't well thought out. If all they do is just go "Here you go, enjoy your meta knowledge of what round type it is and what ruins are available."

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ThanatosRa wrote:My biggest problem is that I can't fix any of this.


Boris wrote:shadowflame either has a brain the size of a pea or one the size of the moon and he's playing 58D chess.


BeeSting12 wrote:please write an apology to this forums, this community, the host, and the internet as a whole for the data storage space you wasted with this complaint.


BebeYoshi wrote:Saltyflame909


Cobby wrote:The trash bin... have you lost your way home anon?

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Re: Lavaland roles using ruin items

Postby Grazyn » Sun Jun 17, 2018 11:32 am #418639

There is nothing to do in the beach so yeah they are allowed to leave. They have no means to defend themselves and just one pick to mine, they don't speak common, and getting back is a challenge in itself like migrants on lifeweb. Some people enjoy that. The problem are those abusing the spawner to spawn as a bum only when a miner stumbles on the ruin so that they can immediately get back into the round.

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Re: Lavaland roles using ruin items

Postby Lazengann » Sun Jun 17, 2018 11:36 am #418641

A beach bum turning himself into a banana golem is a non issue and is very different from beelining to the xeno nest

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Re: Lavaland roles using ruin items

Postby Shadowflame909 » Sun Jun 17, 2018 11:37 am #418642

Lazengann wrote:A beach bum turning himself into a banana golem is a non issue and is very different from beelining to the xeno nest


I don't think that's even possible without going to xenobio and waiting for them to get golem mutation toxin. So what did you mean by this.

Grazyn wrote:There is nothing to do in the beach so yeah they are allowed to leave. They have no means to defend themselves and just one pick to mine, they don't speak common, and getting back is a challenge in itself like migrants on lifeweb. Some people enjoy that. The problem are those abusing the spawner to spawn as a bum only when a miner stumbles on the ruin so that they can immediately get back into the round.


I see no challenge in metagaming the safest route to the station and mining it.

Edit: If this ruin is so boring and only leads to people going it and getting to the station. Then whats the point of having such a junk ruin in the code. If it's only used, like you said. As an inevitable role whos goal is to get back to the station with ghost knowledge of the round type. Also complaining about how the beachbum ruin is only used to metagame to the station wasn't even the initial topic. It's people only using ghost roles to go to ruins in general.

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ThanatosRa wrote:My biggest problem is that I can't fix any of this.


Boris wrote:shadowflame either has a brain the size of a pea or one the size of the moon and he's playing 58D chess.


BeeSting12 wrote:please write an apology to this forums, this community, the host, and the internet as a whole for the data storage space you wasted with this complaint.


BebeYoshi wrote:Saltyflame909


Cobby wrote:The trash bin... have you lost your way home anon?

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Re: Lavaland roles using ruin items

Postby Saegrimr » Sun Jun 17, 2018 11:47 am #418644

For fucks sake lets just remove every god damn thing.
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Re: Lavaland roles using ruin items

Postby Shadowflame909 » Sun Jun 17, 2018 11:51 am #418645

At the very least, I hope some policy is made clear about this by the headmins. What I'm getting here is that every lavaland ghost role that has nothing to do,beach hermit, beach bum, lavaland vet. They can metagame as long as they don't make it look like they're straight beelining for the area they want to metagame? If the end resolution of this conversation is that "Yeah maybe they shouldn't beeline for any ruins. But if they mine open some other directions first before going to that ruin. Who cares let them metagame away"

Then maybe these ruins need to stop being so boring, and have something of substance to do. Like the lavaland roles everyone enjoys, which would be the golems and the lavaland syndies. We'd get less of these free metagame roles. If that's the only thing that they're used for.

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ThanatosRa wrote:My biggest problem is that I can't fix any of this.


Boris wrote:shadowflame either has a brain the size of a pea or one the size of the moon and he's playing 58D chess.


BeeSting12 wrote:please write an apology to this forums, this community, the host, and the internet as a whole for the data storage space you wasted with this complaint.


BebeYoshi wrote:Saltyflame909


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Re: Lavaland roles using ruin items

Postby Saegrimr » Sun Jun 17, 2018 11:55 am #418646

Yeah just like don't metagame or powergame back on station, unless you do it sneaky enough to not be noticed. Human fucking nature.
Some shitbag ICs in OOC about changelings and people will say they wont act on it but you know damn well they're not going to be standing adjacent to any random asshole the rest of the round.
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Re: Lavaland roles using ruin items

Postby Grazyn » Sun Jun 17, 2018 11:57 am #418647

I just wish headmins reinstated the old policy that "every ghost role is valid". I want to be able to enter the beach ruin and blast off the bum's legs with my double plasma cutters, whenever I enter the ruin and there's a bum there freshly spawned awaiting to be "rescued". Same thing with gibtonite bombing the golem base to smithereens.

Why even cater to the lowest common denominator of people who are already so bad they died or decided to observe the round

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Re: Lavaland roles using ruin items

Postby Lazengann » Sun Jun 17, 2018 1:01 pm #418650

Pride ruin lets you golem yourself but jettisons you into space so you have to awkwardly float for fifteen minutes and hopefully you'll find a way back to station

You can turn yourself into other things but you probably won't survive space

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Re: Lavaland roles using ruin items

Postby Shadowflame909 » Sun Jun 17, 2018 1:18 pm #418653

Lazengann wrote:Pride ruin lets you golem yourself but jettisons you into space so you have to awkwardly float for fifteen minutes and hopefully you'll find a way back to station

You can turn yourself into other things but you probably won't survive space


The problem I have with that is, you can only use the mirror 3 times without an RCD. I don't think non antag ghost roles should get to metagame the pride ruin, which roundstart miners have to find fair and square. Then go into space and get back to the station via one of the many teleporter ruins in space.

Spoiler:
Image

ThanatosRa wrote:My biggest problem is that I can't fix any of this.


Boris wrote:shadowflame either has a brain the size of a pea or one the size of the moon and he's playing 58D chess.


BeeSting12 wrote:please write an apology to this forums, this community, the host, and the internet as a whole for the data storage space you wasted with this complaint.


BebeYoshi wrote:Saltyflame909


Cobby wrote:The trash bin... have you lost your way home anon?

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Re: Lavaland roles using ruin items

Postby Dr_bee » Sun Jun 17, 2018 5:14 pm #418677

Shadowflame909 wrote:
Lazengann wrote:Pride ruin lets you golem yourself but jettisons you into space so you have to awkwardly float for fifteen minutes and hopefully you'll find a way back to station

You can turn yourself into other things but you probably won't survive space


The problem I have with that is, you can only use the mirror 3 times without an RCD. I don't think non antag ghost roles should get to metagame the pride ruin, which roundstart miners have to find fair and square. Then go into space and get back to the station via one of the many teleporter ruins in space.


you dont need an RCD you just need 2 sheets of metal, ya dingus, you can lattice over pits like space tiles.

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Re: Lavaland roles using ruin items

Postby Shadowflame909 » Sun Jun 17, 2018 5:22 pm #418678

No way. you lie...? Well, you learn something new every day.

Spoiler:
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ThanatosRa wrote:My biggest problem is that I can't fix any of this.


Boris wrote:shadowflame either has a brain the size of a pea or one the size of the moon and he's playing 58D chess.


BeeSting12 wrote:please write an apology to this forums, this community, the host, and the internet as a whole for the data storage space you wasted with this complaint.


BebeYoshi wrote:Saltyflame909


Cobby wrote:The trash bin... have you lost your way home anon?

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Re: Lavaland roles using ruin items

Postby onleavedontatme » Sun Jun 17, 2018 6:07 pm #418688

If headmins want I'll finish/encourage someone else to finish this PR

https://github.com/tgstation/tgstation/pull/25407

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Re: Lavaland roles using ruin items

Postby Arianya » Sun Jun 17, 2018 7:42 pm #418706

I don't really like limiting ghosts, especially without an admin exemption since sometimes we're examining an area to check how feasible ghost scouting/metagaming/etc is when someone may have already left the area.

Also correct me if I'm mistaken, but I think the main ruin that springs to mind that causes an issue like the OP is the xenomorph one, because theres not much in the way of actual loot there and generally speaking xenos try to get to the mining station/on to the shuttle as soon as possible.

Given that xenos are a round ender and meant to be pretty rare, this makes the xenomorph ruin a bit of a constant issue, since the nature of lavaland ruin generation tends to sometimes expose ruins naturally or place two ruins so close together that we can't realistically accuse someone of ghost scouting or intentionally getting facehugged.

I'd be inclined to fix the issue at the root and either remove the facehugger eggs from the xenomorph ruin, or move them to a central location, so that you can't access them without progressing through atleast part of the ruin (and fighting xenos).

This is a more straightforward solution then creating new policy surrounding it, and doesn't punish players for exploring the content, even as a ghostrole.
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Re: Lavaland roles using ruin items

Postby Shadowflame909 » Sun Jun 17, 2018 8:22 pm #418711

Arianya wrote:Snap


You're pretty smart.

Edit: That would also be a good solution. I only made this policy discussion because I was asked too in my previous thread specifically about the problematic ruin.

Spoiler:
Image

ThanatosRa wrote:My biggest problem is that I can't fix any of this.


Boris wrote:shadowflame either has a brain the size of a pea or one the size of the moon and he's playing 58D chess.


BeeSting12 wrote:please write an apology to this forums, this community, the host, and the internet as a whole for the data storage space you wasted with this complaint.


BebeYoshi wrote:Saltyflame909


Cobby wrote:The trash bin... have you lost your way home anon?

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Re: Lavaland roles using ruin items

Postby Cobby » Tue Jun 19, 2018 12:41 am #418929

Being a hostile role and being an antag are two different things, albeit lots of overlap.
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Re: Lavaland roles using ruin items

Postby Shadowflame909 » Tue Jun 19, 2018 1:08 am #418934

I 100 percent agree. Ash Lizards should have limitations.
Last edited by Shadowflame909 on Wed Jun 20, 2018 3:11 am, edited 1 time in total.

Spoiler:
Image

ThanatosRa wrote:My biggest problem is that I can't fix any of this.


Boris wrote:shadowflame either has a brain the size of a pea or one the size of the moon and he's playing 58D chess.


BeeSting12 wrote:please write an apology to this forums, this community, the host, and the internet as a whole for the data storage space you wasted with this complaint.


BebeYoshi wrote:Saltyflame909


Cobby wrote:The trash bin... have you lost your way home anon?

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Re: Lavaland roles using ruin items

Postby Lazengann » Tue Jun 19, 2018 2:19 pm #419069

They don't have limitations according to all previous rulings, they're standard antags

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Re: Lavaland roles using ruin items

Postby Not-Dorsidarf » Tue Jun 19, 2018 7:54 pm #419146

maybe he means golems
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Re: Lavaland roles using ruin items

Postby iksyp » Wed Jun 20, 2018 12:32 am #419362

Not-Dorsidarf wrote:maybe he means golems

but golems aren't a hostile role
ignore this poster he has brain damage

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Re: Lavaland roles using ruin items

Postby Shadowflame909 » Wed Jun 20, 2018 3:11 am #419421

There I edited it. I hope its more coherent for you guys.

Spoiler:
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ThanatosRa wrote:My biggest problem is that I can't fix any of this.


Boris wrote:shadowflame either has a brain the size of a pea or one the size of the moon and he's playing 58D chess.


BeeSting12 wrote:please write an apology to this forums, this community, the host, and the internet as a whole for the data storage space you wasted with this complaint.


BebeYoshi wrote:Saltyflame909


Cobby wrote:The trash bin... have you lost your way home anon?

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Re: Lavaland roles using ruin items

Postby Incomptinence » Wed Jun 20, 2018 9:21 am #419525

They do their limitations are physical, no shoes no guns easy as hell to robust.

Any of the mining capable ghost roles beelining a ruin mining for it in a straight line is obvious as hell if they do that serves as a good gotcha for bad players.

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Re: Lavaland roles using ruin items

Postby Shadowflame909 » Wed Jun 20, 2018 3:10 pm #419579

It's not really a good gotcha, and this thread has made me realize the extent and purpose of what these ghost role ruins are used for.

What's the point of having a beach bum, lavaland hermit, and a translocated vet if all you want them to do is metagame the station/some ruin for free antag/powers and some additional ghost knowledge.

I mean, in the rules it does state that ghost roles should 100 percent follow their ghost role. But is this really enforced, do beach bums ever follow their ghost role? What does the lavaland hermit and lavaland's vet ghost role even mean? These need some clearing up clearly.

Spoiler:
Image

ThanatosRa wrote:My biggest problem is that I can't fix any of this.


Boris wrote:shadowflame either has a brain the size of a pea or one the size of the moon and he's playing 58D chess.


BeeSting12 wrote:please write an apology to this forums, this community, the host, and the internet as a whole for the data storage space you wasted with this complaint.


BebeYoshi wrote:Saltyflame909


Cobby wrote:The trash bin... have you lost your way home anon?

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Re: Lavaland roles using ruin items

Postby Lazengann » Wed Jun 20, 2018 4:07 pm #419609

I made a thread asking for those garbo ghost roles to be gone forever ago

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Re: Lavaland roles using ruin items

Postby Cobby » Thu Jun 21, 2018 12:40 am #419742

If you consider ashlizards antags you still have to realize bumrushing alien to lmao lavaland makes 0 sense in both fluff text and team antag rules
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