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Naming Policy part 17: Historical Villians

PostPosted: Sat Jun 23, 2018 8:12 pm
by Nabski
So we've clearly said that Adolf Hitler is not an acceptable name, and makes you valid to varying levels of abuse.

What about other famous Nazi's, like Josef Mengele.

Child soldier warlords?

Serial Killers?

The pedophile from subway commercials?

People who made live action adaptations of beloved shows from our childhood?

WHERE IS THE LINE DRAWN BETWEEN ACCEPTABLE AND NOT.

Re: Naming Policy part 17: Historical Villians

PostPosted: Sat Jun 23, 2018 8:32 pm
by Tsaricide
Are you really comparing Jared to Hitler?

Re: Naming Policy part 17: Historical Villians

PostPosted: Sat Jun 23, 2018 8:33 pm
by Nabski
Nah, my real issue was with Josef Mengele. I figured I'd ask how far down the line of aweful people you can go before it's ok.

He was just a funny example.

Re: Naming Policy part 17: Historical Villians

PostPosted: Sat Jun 23, 2018 8:35 pm
by somerandomguy
If you're playing them to griff: No.

If you're not playing them to griff: Same as non-villian real-world/recognizable names.

Re: Naming Policy part 17: Historical Villians

PostPosted: Sat Jun 23, 2018 8:37 pm
by Dax Dupont
I think only Adolf Hitler should make you valid, because it's the epitome of edginess.

Aside from that I don't care if you name yourself Seung-Hui Cho, Slobodan Milošević, Pol Pot, Mao Zedong or whatever you want.

Re: Naming Policy part 17: Historical Villians

PostPosted: Sat Jun 23, 2018 8:37 pm
by Atlanta-Ned
if this is going to continue to be an issue we need to only allow names from the lists used to generate the random name when you click that button.

Re: Naming Policy part 17: Historical Villians

PostPosted: Sat Jun 23, 2018 8:39 pm
by Dax Dupont
Also I'd like to add, what measure would we use?

For some Stalin is a hero, for some Trump is literally hitler.

Slobodan Milošević didn't do anything wrong.

Re: Naming Policy part 17: Historical Villians

PostPosted: Sat Jun 23, 2018 9:26 pm
by feem
I feel like something like this would address most issues that come up, and still allow enough flexibility to let people be a little tiny bit stupid.

1) A minimum amount of effort is expected in creating a name for your character: use something which you can reasonably expect other people to say when referring to you. Use your brain.
2) Using the name of a well-known real person, especially those associated with violence, may result in admin intervention. Taking a name which is obviously in bad faith is probably a bad idea.
Repeated violation of either of these tenets may lead to a ban.

Re: Naming Policy part 17: Historical Villians

PostPosted: Sat Jun 23, 2018 10:03 pm
by Grazyn
Always keep in mind that the game is set 5 hundreds years from now. I doubt that in 2018 people with the surname Bathory have second thoughts about naming their child Elizabeth, but go back a few centuries and the name would've been wildy inappropriate. The same goes for the Rodgers in 2555 who call their child Elliot and surely are not thinking about a guy who did a bad thing so many centuries ago.

Re: Naming Policy part 17: Historical Villians

PostPosted: Sat Jun 23, 2018 10:32 pm
by leibniz
Grazyn wrote:Always keep in mind that the game is set 5 hundreds years from now. I doubt that in 2018 people with the surname Bathory have second thoughts about naming their child Elizabeth, but go back a few centuries and the name would've been wildy inappropriate. The same goes for the Rodgers in 2555 who call their child Elliot and surely are not thinking about a guy who did a bad thing so many centuries ago.


This is logical.. but.. people choose these names to get a reaction.
There isn't really much point in giving special admin protection to these people.

"Where do we draw the line?" is a good question, I assume people pick adolf when they want a lynching and lanza when they want edgy references on the radio.

I recommend creating an ethics committee for the server so we will have an answer to the most crucial issues about the specifics of spessmens.

Re: Naming Policy part 17: Historical Villians

PostPosted: Sat Jun 23, 2018 10:39 pm
by feem
Grazyn wrote:the game is set 5 hundreds years from now


Our players aren't.

The majority of people who pick those specific kinds of names are doing so explicitly to get a rise out of people, which is a rule 1 violation.

Name policy shouldn't be a tacked-on special list of things in addition to the regular rules, it should be a way of enforcing the other rules and the gameplay we'd like to see and play alongside that guides players.

Re: Naming Policy part 17: Historical Villians

PostPosted: Sat Jun 23, 2018 11:14 pm
by Lazengann
I have no desire to punish people for killing Stalin

Re: Naming Policy part 17: Historical Villians

PostPosted: Sat Jun 23, 2018 11:16 pm
by Grazyn
Common sense should be a thing but it is also true that a line must be drawn somewhere. You can't expect players to stay updated on all the latest US mass shootings so that they don't select a name that could be seen as edgy and provocative. In fact, you can end up with the name Elliot Rogers just by selecting random name: Rogers is on the list and there are FOUR variations of Elliot in first_male.txt

You can check for yourself, think of an "edgy" "villain" name and see if it's a possible result of a random combination allowed by our naming strings. Yes, Joseph Goebbels is another one. Think about that before you start banning/noting people for an unlucky roll.

Re: Naming Policy part 17: Historical Villians

PostPosted: Sat Jun 23, 2018 11:29 pm
by Cobby
If you get killed because your name is a bad guy name and you didn't know I have no issue respawning you with the caveat you choose a new name.

The odds that you pick Elliot Rodgers via Random Name while also not knowing who that is will be quite slim though, so I don't expect that to get invoked much.

Re: Naming Policy part 17: Historical Villians

PostPosted: Sun Jun 24, 2018 12:37 am
by Dax Dupont
I didn't even know Elliot Rodgers was a school shooter till now, I thought he was just a /fit/ Incel meme.

Re: Naming Policy part 17: Historical Villians

PostPosted: Sun Jun 24, 2018 1:12 am
by Dax Dupont
CosmicScientist wrote:
Dax Dupont wrote:Also I'd like to add, what measure would we use?

For some Stalin is a hero, for some Trump is literally hitler.

Slobodan Milošević didn't do anything wrong.

Play with an obvious real life name, become valid, deny ahelps, leave it in security and the captain's incapable hands to decide if it's lawful or if they can just mess up the person's genes into an acceptable name.

Problem is that if you make this any real life name, John Smith/Jeff Kaplan/etc become valid.

It should be like feem suggested, with names associated with violence only.

Re: Naming Policy part 17: Historical Villians

PostPosted: Sun Jun 24, 2018 1:19 am
by imblyings
Why is policy discussion so fucking filled with retarded name policy threads these days jesus christ

If its le hitler man just let the crew lynch him if they feel like it, and if its anything else just dont pay them any special attention. Theres no fucking line that needs to be drawn.

Re: Naming Policy part 17: Historical Villians

PostPosted: Sun Jun 24, 2018 1:27 am
by imblyings
This is the worst possible slippery slope to get on

/tg/ being eminently retarded and trying to legislate absolutely irrelevant minutiae of rules that dont even really affect gameplay while trying to cater to the most soft skinned idiots who must be protected from historical names lest they have a breakdown from seeing a goebbels or stalin ingame while an admin tells them the clown slipping them and taking their id is ic.

Seriously what the fuck

Re: Naming Policy part 17: Historical Villians

PostPosted: Sun Jun 24, 2018 1:33 am
by PKPenguin321
Wow he's named Dahmer oh no stop the presses

Re: Naming Policy part 17: Historical Villians

PostPosted: Sun Jun 24, 2018 2:22 am
by Cobby
why don't we just disallow blatant references to famous people like ye ole' days?

Re: Naming Policy part 17: Historical Villians

PostPosted: Sun Jun 24, 2018 10:03 am
by imblyings
Because curtailing player freedom in that manner has zero objective benefits unless you were planning on running a ss13 server which enforces strict roleplaying of characters that conform to specific settings. On a server where an assistant can smash windows to steal medkits and doctors can morphine amd delimb the criminal, blatant references to famous people as names is pointless.

Re: Naming Policy part 17: Historical Villians

PostPosted: Sun Jun 24, 2018 10:11 am
by DemonFiren
it's "villains"

Re: Naming Policy part 17: Historical Villians

PostPosted: Sun Jun 24, 2018 10:55 am
by Dax Dupont
imblyings wrote:Because curtailing player freedom in that manner has zero objective benefits unless you were planning on running a ss13 server which enforces strict roleplaying of characters that conform to specific settings. On a server where an assistant can smash windows to steal medkits and doctors can morphine amd delimb the criminal, blatant references to famous people as names is pointless.

I'm inclined to agree but if we do start banning them I'd go with feems wording.
As long names somewhat seem realistic it should be fine.

Re: Naming Policy part 17: Historical Villians

PostPosted: Sun Jun 24, 2018 11:41 am
by feem
I want to reiterate that my suggestion doesn't imply hard and fast rules, but provides guidance to help people pass the "smell test" with their names. It says you MAY be banned, not that you will. The vast majority of cases would, just as now, just result in being asked to change it, if at all. Not everything needs to be corrected. Intent is the problem here.

Naming policy shouldn't be A RUUUUULE imo, it should be guidance which is a natural extension of existing rules and expectations.

Re: Naming Policy part 17: Historical Villians

PostPosted: Sun Jun 24, 2018 12:31 pm
by NikNakFlak
We've literally had admins who used nazi names, one of which posted in this thread. When that nightclub shooting in the usa happened, there was an influx of people running around with the shooters name.

No hard policy needed, declare them valid. Forcefully change their name or whatever and then laugh if they complain. Ez

[Deleted]

PostPosted: Sun Jun 24, 2018 12:53 pm
by leibniz
PostThis post was deleted by leibniz on Sun Jun 24, 2018 1:28 pm.

Re: Naming Policy part 17: Historical Villians

PostPosted: Sun Jun 24, 2018 1:52 pm
by Ayy Lemoh
NikNakFlak wrote:We've literally had admins who used nazi names, one of which posted in this thread.

yeah, i played as adolf hitler before in the past because being valid to the entire crew was really funny sometimes, especially when i was once a traitor as hitler and had to save the crew from other traitors because they ruined my jedi sword duel meme. if i could've played as valid mcvalid then i would have done it however people are less likely to lynch you for that sadly.

Re: Naming Policy part 17: Historical Villians

PostPosted: Sun Jun 24, 2018 2:39 pm
by Cobby
imblyings wrote:Because curtailing player freedom in that manner has zero objective benefits unless you were planning on running a ss13 server which enforces strict roleplaying of characters that conform to specific settings. On a server where an assistant can smash windows to steal medkits and doctors can morphine amd delimb the criminal, blatant references to famous people as names is pointless.


Agreed I just get tired of this thread coming back in different flavors lol

Re: Naming Policy part 17: Historical Villians

PostPosted: Sun Jun 24, 2018 2:52 pm
by captain sawrge
i warned u guys

Re: Naming Policy part 17: Historical Villians

PostPosted: Sun Jun 24, 2018 6:34 pm
by Lumbermancer
meme names are fine if you pick them for memes, if it's your static name then you should be removed.

Re: Naming Policy part 17: Historical Villians

PostPosted: Sun Jun 24, 2018 10:44 pm
by NikNakFlak
nazi is a nazi
"holding it against me"
pointing it out in a thread and then doing nothing but ok get butthurt

Re: Naming Policy part 17: Historical Villians

PostPosted: Sun Jun 24, 2018 11:27 pm
by oranges
imblyings wrote:This is the worst possible slippery slope to get on

/tg/ being eminently retarded and trying to legislate absolutely irrelevant minutiae of rules that dont even really affect gameplay while trying to cater to the most soft skinned idiots who must be protected from historical names lest they have a breakdown from seeing a goebbels or stalin ingame while an admin tells them the clown slipping them and taking their id is ic.

Seriously what the fuck

please become a headadmin again

Re: Naming Policy part 17: Historical Villians

PostPosted: Mon Jun 25, 2018 1:13 am
by FrozenGuy5
can we have ausops as a headmin again