Admin conduct discussion

[starmute]

https://tgstation13.org/wiki/Admin_Conduct

There should honestly be some more guidelines regarding sexual harassment, which should be handled by the head admins and the host.

Additionally the page should be amended to include the information on https://tgstation13.org/phpBB/viewtopic.php?f=23&t=3509

I believe the admin complaints also should include admin abuse on the forums and discord (for example if someone releases a IP of a player on discord and tells people to go nuts it should be included in the admin complaints.) Perhaps a new board for that if it isn't merged into admin complaints?

There's a bunch more but the major thing I think is we should keep the admin conduct page up to date and current.

[Wyzack]

Just curious what prompted this thread

[starmute]

Just curious what prompted this thread

Thoughts into past experiences of the tg community (and actually some other communities).

[Saegrimr]

There should honestly be some more guidelines regarding sexual harassment

You mean the already extremely strict bans that get handed out for even remotely sexual things already? What more do you even want?

[Arianya]

There should honestly be some more guidelines regarding sexual harassment, which should be handled by the head admins and the host.

This is covered by common sense as well as "Don't be a hypocrite. If you're doing something you'd normally ban someone for doing, you're breaking this.". If you or someone you know has been sexually harassed by an administrator then you should report it to the headmins or the host via forum PMs.

e: and also is covered by "1. No Attacks/harassment towards players" in the below thread.

Additionally the page should be amended to include the information on https://tgstation13.org/phpBB/viewtopic.php?f=23&t=3509

Some of it is duplicate info but agree, in principle.

I believe the admin complaints also should include admin abuse on the forums and discord (for example if someone releases a IP of a player on discord and tells people to go nuts it should be included in the admin complaints.) Perhaps a new board for that if it isn't merged into admin complaints?

These matters are better handled privately via the headmins, both to avoid propagating any breaches of privacy that occur and to ensure that information can be shared freely with the headmins without fearing repercussions from the admin in question/popular opinion on the forums, etc.

e: also part of this was covered in https://tgstation13.org/phpBB/viewtopic ... 33&t=18083 which is recent enough that it doesn't need reconsidering.

[Dax Dupont]

I've not heard of an admin sexually harassing a player, is this such an issue that common sense conduct enforcement doesn't work?

[Wyzack]

Yeah without an incident to spark something like this i dont really know why it would be at all necessary, since it is already zero tolerance

[Saegrimr]

I've not heard of an admin sexually harassing a player, is this such an issue that common sense conduct enforcement doesn't work?

Good of a time now as any to start, right?
ODD HOW THIS THREAD POPS UP DURING GDQ

[Bombadil]

Sudden bent for social justice unpropmpted? Nothing unusual here. Especially when we've never had a admin sexually harass someone

[Rustledjimm]

Currently any situations of sexual harassment are handled by headmins and host whether it's from a player or an admin. We have luckily never had the latter and hopefully never will.

[starmute]

I've not heard of an admin sexually harassing a player, is this such an issue that common sense conduct enforcement doesn't work?

Good of a time now as any to start, right?
ODD HOW THIS THREAD POPS UP DURING GDQ

I don't know what GDQ is however there have been issues in the past, I don't want to name any specifics on our server because it causes drama and friction.



I play CM infrequently. That aside, I'm looking forward to driving the tank. CM is one of the more strict communities out there as far as this kind of thing goes but ultimately if you look at the complaint and how it was handled I believe that they were "shamed" for making a complaint. Here is a quick overview.

https://www.digg.com/r/SS13/comments/ ... complaint/

Issuing a complaint about someone is humiliating sometimes. There needs to be a process that is a bit better than CM's.

[MrStonedOne]

Maintain professional conduct both in game and outside of the game. It is expected that you take the position seriously. This doesn't mean you can't talk casually to the playerbase, but remain professional on the forums, as well as on other Space Station 13 communities.

It looks like we already have a rule to cover this. Why do you think we need another rule?

[starmute]

Maintain professional conduct both in game and outside of the game. It is expected that you take the position seriously. This doesn't mean you can't talk casually to the playerbase, but remain professional on the forums, as well as on other Space Station 13 communities.

It looks like we already have a rule to cover this. Why do you think we need another rule?

We don't need another rule, just guidelines on how to handle issues like this.

[Shezza]

Maintain professional conduct both in game and outside of the game. It is expected that you take the position seriously. This doesn't mean you can't talk casually to the playerbase, but remain professional on the forums, as well as on other Space Station 13 communities.

It looks like we already have a rule to cover this. Why do you think we need another rule?

We don't need another rule, just guidelines on how to handle issues like this.

Forum pm someone and beg that they actually respond back.

Last attempt on allowing complaints on fnr about admin behaviour outside the game was laughed at. (And then quite hilariously the first person to mock the thread was a person that would later cry about admin behaviour in fnr)

[Dax Dupont]

Maintain professional conduct both in game and outside of the game. It is expected that you take the position seriously. This doesn't mean you can't talk casually to the playerbase, but remain professional on the forums, as well as on other Space Station 13 communities.

It looks like we already have a rule to cover this. Why do you think we need another rule?

We don't need another rule, just guidelines on how to handle issues like this.

how many times do we need to list the fact you contact headmins and/or the host by forum pm i swear to god

[Shezza]

Implying anyone reads forum pm's.

They are a bad medium that doesn't allow penaut gallery on admin complaint threads.

[starmute]

To keep this on track and summarize

Alright it seems the initial information and whatnot has been asked and answered

IE the feeling I am getting is the proposal to update our policies on how to handle sexual harassment isn't going anywhere productive and there is a fair amount of resistance to the idea of merging complaints of admins behavior in the forums/ in the community and in game behavior. Correct?

The other stuff I proposed was to condense all the admin conduct information into one page and keep it current.

[Saegrimr]

You could also try not making it sound like there's a conspiracy agenda admins are trying to maintain. There's a system in place that works and just because it doesn't work how YOU want it to, doesn't meant it needs to be fixed.

[starmute]

You could also try not making it sound like there's a conspiracy agenda admins are trying to maintain. There's a system in place that works and just because it doesn't work how YOU want it to, doesn't meant it needs to be fixed.

I never said anything about a conspiracy/agenda. I want to help out tgstation in any possible way and in fact I don't want to cause drama.

This was supposed to be a helpful suggestion, it isn't a personal attack on anyone nor is it hostile in nature. I was simply looking at issues and trying to help.

Sorry if you see it any other way.

[cedarbridge]

I have to wonder what "help" is required to fix a non-problem. Expansive codes of conduct and self-styled sexual harassment policies, especially in open source projects, trend towards weaponization rather than serving as protections against whatever ill-conduct they claim to proscribe.

We don't need more rules and policies. We just need more rules and policies. Because reasons.

[Dax Dupont]

>nothing ever happened
>you can just message headmins in the unlikely event some rapist gets admined like any other situation

We should really autolock threads from people who haven't played in months the policy section would be way better.

[starmute]

>nothing ever happened
>you can just message headmins in the unlikely event some rapist gets admined like any other situation

We should really autolock threads from people who haven't played in months the policy section would be way better.

I.... wow. I didn't think you would hate me making what I thought a helpful thread. And frankly, it has happened in the past. I just wanted to avoid all the drama with how shit went down back then. Its time to move on.

As for tgstation stats.... I'm glad you took the time out of your day to check my stats (no I haven't felt like playing space station 13, I didn't know that was a crime). I thought I've contributed in the past.... sorry if it seems I'm being overly rude or offensive.

I guess I'm done

[imblyings]

>keep on track
>isn't going anywhere productive
>>>>>help out tgstation in any possible way

We have a bunch of female players and admins, abuse or harassment towards them is not tolerated, nor is it for the other half with dicks. It has never been. How shit of you to insinuate that we need those sorts of policies.

You need to fuck off. Don't ever come here abusing the topic of some serious issues for a moral high ground and attempt at being relevant. You've done this before, injecting yourself into threads or topics. Abuse and harasssment is not a topic you get to exploit.