Virologist Validity: to lynch or not to lynch

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Virologist Validity: to lynch or not to lynch

Postby Timbrewolf » Sun Nov 02, 2014 2:42 am #40078

Something I don't think has really been addressed since the viro update of a while ago added more beneficial diseases and things, but should be discussed:

What symptoms (if any) should the crew be experiencing before it's okay to stack up at the virologist's door with your pitchfork in hand?

If you're dying from some hellish vomit-ception disease is it self-defense to beat the virologist to death? Since there's no pressing danger (that is, killing the Viro wont stop your disease) should the virologist have to be arrested always (unless of course they start physically attacking the people come to detain them)?

Where is the OOC line for releasing something as a non-antag? Obviously something like the brute stack disease mentioned above is a no-go, but what about something that makes the crew fat, bald, and sneezing the disease all over others? Grounds for arrest/demotion, or grounds for a ban?

What's the player opinion on this stuff?
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Re: Virologist Validity: to lynch or not to lynch

Postby Saegrimr » Sun Nov 02, 2014 3:05 am #40085

FUCK COUGHING
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Re: Virologist Validity: to lynch or not to lynch

Postby paprika » Sun Nov 02, 2014 3:29 am #40093

Incompetency shouldn't be a reason to lynch someone.

But it's a reason to jobban someone.

Coughing makes you drop your shit but it's also like one of the main ingredients for a lot of mutations especially for helpful diseases.

I think the viro guide should be rewritten to especially include how important synaptizine is for eliminating symptoms like coughing from your beneficial diseases.
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Re: Virologist Validity: to lynch or not to lynch

Postby cedarbridge » Sun Nov 02, 2014 6:02 am #40148

paprika wrote:Coughing makes you drop your shit but it's also like one of the main ingredients for a lot of mutations especially for helpful diseases.

uwot

There's literally no reason for coughing to ever be in a non-harmful disease and zero requirement for it to ever come up in the creation of a virus with any of the possible beneficial symptoms. What are you even talking about?

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Re: Virologist Validity: to lynch or not to lynch

Postby Ikarrus » Sun Nov 02, 2014 6:10 am #40153

ffs whatever you do at least make sure you're lynching the right person. Just because you're coughing doesn't automatically make the virologist guilty.
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Re: Virologist Validity: to lynch or not to lynch

Postby miggles » Sun Nov 02, 2014 6:14 am #40155

there is no reason to lynch the viro unless the disease he is spreading is definitely hurting/killing people
and at that point you also need to make sure its a special disease and not just brainrot or something

virologists should be arrested for releasing annoying diseases like hair loss/fattening etc, but benign things like sneezing and beneficial viruses should be OK
jobbans should be reserved for people who constantly make annoying diseases round after round or release deadly diseases as non-antag

if space law is changed to reflect this PLEASE make sure there is a specific clause mentioning the severity of the disease so shitty officers dont sate their harmboner by arresting a viro who made a disease with sneezing in it
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Re: Virologist Validity: to lynch or not to lynch

Postby Lo6a4evskiy » Sun Nov 02, 2014 7:05 am #40162

paprika wrote:Incompetency shouldn't be a reason to lynch someone.

But it's almost impossible to accidentally release a virus with the way virology is currently set up.

Oh, by the way, releasing any and all diseases if they spread via other means than just blood is incredibly shitty. I don't know what you put in your stupid disease, may be after stimulator there's blindness. May be I spent whole fucking round learning super powers when your shitty super powers symptom fucked it all up. Absolutely anything that cannot be contained should be a good reason for arrest and potentially capital punishment on the grounds of (Grand) Sabotage.

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Re: Virologist Validity: to lynch or not to lynch

Postby Erbbu » Sun Nov 02, 2014 11:17 am #40198

It's funny how sometimes people threaten to lynch me because their nigh-immortality also causes them to sneeze.

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Re: Virologist Validity: to lynch or not to lynch

Postby Kuraudo » Sun Nov 02, 2014 1:13 pm #40217

Releasing harmful viruses is grand sabotage and should be handled as such by security.
Releasing troll-ish viruses could lead to demotion by the CMO if he see it fit.
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Re: Virologist Validity: to lynch or not to lynch

Postby QuartzCrystal » Sun Nov 02, 2014 3:35 pm #40244

Here's the thing though, if a virologist released a harmful virus this is something the admins should be looking into.

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Re: Virologist Validity: to lynch or not to lynch

Postby Hibbles » Sun Nov 02, 2014 6:51 pm #40274

I always figured the line is whether the symptoms are actually harmful. Cough included. There is literally no reason to ever include symptoms that actively cause harm. There are a few very useful, harmless, but mildly annoying symptoms though that you should just #deal with to get the benefits, such as fever, sneezing, itching, and shivering. Those four cause no negative gameplay effects aside from spamming you occasionally, and make the virus more stronk.

Somebody who releases ebola will get spoken to by us, or if he's an antagonist, he'll get killed by Security or the crew.
Somebofy who releases an annoying space cold will get, I dunno, demoted or beaten up or whatever. As with other chronic shitlery, if the person makes it a habit, they'll also have a nice chat with me and Joey Numbahs out by the lake.

Also seconding the 'check your targets' thing because if you lynch the Virologist after seeing a Level 7 alert or something you will be banned.
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Re: Virologist Validity: to lynch or not to lynch

Postby Saegrimr » Sun Nov 02, 2014 7:13 pm #40275

On that note of MAKE SURE YOU'RE LYNCHING THE RIGHT PERSON.

Had to talk to a few people about a month ago after some greyshirt intercepted and stole the brain rot bottle from a virus crate, splashed it on some dude, and then everybody lynched viro because of it. Everybody involved being non-antags.

Detectives got that scanner for a reason.
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Re: Virologist Validity: to lynch or not to lynch

Postby Timbrewolf » Sun Nov 02, 2014 11:12 pm #40337

Okay so basically what the consensus here seems to be is:

DON'T. Being infected with a virus does not give you reason to claim "self-defense" and pummel the Viro, even if it's causing harm to you. Unless they start goin' nuts when accosted (and by that I mean attempting to beat you to death with something, or they produce a traitor weapon, etc.) arrest them and handle them normally. Being Ebola Chan does not make you valid for execution on the spot.

As has been pointed out:

1) At least three people (usually four) will have access to the Viro lab at any given time. That is: The Captain, The CMO, The Virologist, and very likely the HoP. You shouldn't automatically assume the Viro did it.

2) Tator Cargonians can order and emag virus crates for chaos in a bottle

3) Random events sometimes infect the crew with stuff
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Re: Virologist Validity: to lynch or not to lynch

Postby Scott » Mon Nov 03, 2014 12:35 am #40351

If the virologist is not an antag, he has no reason to let loose bad viruses, so he should be arrested when he does so.

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Re: Virologist Validity: to lynch or not to lynch

Postby cedarbridge » Mon Nov 03, 2014 12:53 am #40357

An0n3 wrote:Okay so basically what the consensus here seems to be is:

DON'T. Being infected with a virus does not give you reason to claim "self-defense" and pummel the Viro, even if it's causing harm to you.

I was pretty sure this was "unless you're actually sure it was the viro." At which point the viro becomes valid salad.

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Re: Virologist Validity: to lynch or not to lynch

Postby paprika » Mon Nov 03, 2014 1:10 am #40364

Why does coughing make you drop what you're holding holy crap
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Re: Virologist Validity: to lynch or not to lynch

Postby miggles » Mon Nov 03, 2014 1:28 am #40368

because it makes it useful as an annoying symptom
as in you dont put in viruses you dont want to use to annoy people
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Re: Virologist Validity: to lynch or not to lynch

Postby cedarbridge » Mon Nov 03, 2014 3:29 am #40393

paprika wrote:Why does coughing make you drop what you're holding holy crap

Because it is literally worse than Hitler in every possible way.

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Re: Virologist Validity: to lynch or not to lynch

Postby mrpain » Mon Nov 03, 2014 7:49 am #40453

I consider lynching the viro at the signs of symptoms, and nothing else, meta gaming. As stated above, there are plenty of other sources of diseases outside of virology. At least search him and his workplace for evidence of it first. Which should be done by the CMO, Captain, or Security. Not Greyshit Mcvalid.
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Re: Virologist Validity: to lynch or not to lynch

Postby Raven776 » Mon Nov 03, 2014 10:56 am #40471

mrpain wrote:I consider lynching the viro at the signs of symptoms, and nothing else, meta gaming. As stated above, there are plenty of other sources of diseases outside of virology. At least search him and his workplace for evidence of it first. Which should be done by the CMO, Captain, or Security. Not Greyshit Mcvalid.


If you're the CMO and the virologist has harmful diseases all around virology and you only notice after the fact, you're doing a poor job.

When I play CMO I give at least a cursory effort to pretending I'm watching virology. I announce it over the radio, I suit up, I go in, I check vials and beakers, I commend him on his research, I use the shower on the way out, and then I send an update on what I saw to the command staff.

If they're good, they'll hide everything in the trashcan or something. If they're bad, they're going to gun your face off and make their virologist status worthless if anyone actually pays attention.

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Re: Virologist Validity: to lynch or not to lynch

Postby CocaneStyle » Mon Nov 03, 2014 3:57 pm #40517

What if good symptoms could be used effectively in bad viruses? As I am restating all the virus symptoms that is something I was thinking about.

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Re: Virologist Validity: to lynch or not to lynch

Postby cedarbridge » Mon Nov 03, 2014 4:20 pm #40526

CocaneStyle wrote:What if good symptoms could be used effectively in bad viruses? As I am restating all the virus symptoms that is something I was thinking about.

They already are. A virus with Necrotizing Facitisis and the rest filled out with buffing "good" symptoms is going to be a bitch and a half to cure (silver or worse.) Compare this to unrobust vrios that make the black fucking plague, but don't have any buffing symptoms and it gets cured by eating a burger. The only time this wasn't totally shit was the time viro make 25 different viruses that were only technically different and were all cured by nutriment so you could only cure 3 at a time without chugging lipozine.

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Re: Virologist Validity: to lynch or not to lynch

Postby CocaneStyle » Mon Nov 03, 2014 4:28 pm #40531

What are you talking about all the virus symptoms that have positive effects are almost entirely a drain on all stats, For example Weight Even has no positive stats at all.

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Re: Virologist Validity: to lynch or not to lynch

Postby cedarbridge » Mon Nov 03, 2014 4:41 pm #40541

CocaneStyle wrote:What are you talking about all the virus symptoms that have positive effects are almost entirely a drain on all stats, For example Weight Even has no positive stats at all.

Then you need to define your terms better. Fever is a "positive" symptom in that it does what its meant to do (buff a virus.)

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Re: Virologist Validity: to lynch or not to lynch

Postby CocaneStyle » Tue Nov 04, 2014 1:25 pm #40808

A positive symptom is one that benefits the infected in some way, such as toxic filter or weight even. Fever isn't (or shouldn't) be about buffing a virus but heating the player up, which is a good or bad thing depending on the situation.

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Re: Virologist Validity: to lynch or not to lynch

Postby Apsis » Wed Nov 05, 2014 11:09 am #41097

The Virologist should also get permission before releasing anything.

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Re: Virologist Validity: to lynch or not to lynch

Postby lumipharon » Thu Nov 06, 2014 1:54 am #41323

I don't care if a viro releases a disease, so long as it doesn't spread, like, holy shit stop making this airborn fever filled viruses, ESPECIALLY when they're dna aid. That should be lynchable, if not OOCly dodgy, because it's literall just handing hulk out to everyone on the station and shrugging your shoulders when everything goes to shit.

Make your good viruses, which can only be tranferred by blood, and ask people specifically they want it, simple as that.

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Re: Virologist Validity: to lynch or not to lynch

Postby mrpain » Fri Nov 07, 2014 8:56 am #41717

If I'm captain or, say, HoS in a round where I've seen traitor or whatever form of bad guy activity running around, and my virologist releases DNAid (the one that randomly gives pretty much everyone a roulette of random superpowers at all times, whatever the fuck it's called), I have him demoted and brigged for aiding the enemies of the corporation, and/or creating a workplace hazard, whether he intended to or not. Giving the bad guys shit like hulk and TK is not ok.
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Re: Virologist Validity: to lynch or not to lynch

Postby Timbrewolf » Sat Nov 08, 2014 8:20 am #41933

mrpain wrote:If I'm captain or, say, HoS in a round where I've seen traitor or whatever form of bad guy activity running around, and my virologist releases DNAid (the one that randomly gives pretty much everyone a roulette of random superpowers at all times, whatever the fuck it's called), I have him demoted and brigged for aiding the enemies of the corporation, and/or creating a workplace hazard, whether he intended to or not. Giving the bad guys shit like hulk and TK is not ok.


That seems fair, but i would hope you're as equally stringent in that role about geneticists standing in the medbay lobby offering to Hulk random passersby.

DNAid is a really poorly thought out virus anyway in that it replicates (and interferes with) literally the only thing geneticist has to do aside from managing the train of clones that come in the door.
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Re: Virologist Validity: to lynch or not to lynch

Postby callanrockslol » Sat Nov 08, 2014 10:37 am #41966

paprika wrote:Incompetency shouldn't be a reason to lynch someone.

But it's a reason to jobban someone.


Its the other way around, if someone is incompetent and releases ebolaids or something lynch he asap.

You don't ban people for being bad, you kick their ass and tell them not to do it again.

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Re: Virologist Validity: to lynch or not to lynch

Postby lumipharon » Wed Nov 12, 2014 11:18 pm #42986

If someone fucks up (engineer lets the singulo out, viro lets out AIDS), it's IMO fine to demote/beat/lynch, depending how bad the fuck up is. When they fuck up multiple times, then it becomes an ooc issue and they need to be job banned for being a retard.

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Re: Virologist Validity: to lynch or not to lynch

Postby paprika » Thu Nov 13, 2014 7:12 pm #43223

I really don't get how someone can fuck up and 'accidentally' release GBS, harmful symptoms have to be intentionally released 99% of the time, so it's not like engineering where negligence can release the singulo.
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Re: Virologist Validity: to lynch or not to lynch

Postby Raven776 » Thu Nov 13, 2014 7:21 pm #43229

paprika wrote:I really don't get how someone can fuck up and 'accidentally' release GBS, harmful symptoms have to be intentionally released 99% of the time, so it's not like engineering where negligence can release the singulo.


Fucking up releasing a disease is a team effort. It happens when a CMO/MD wanders into viro to see what's up and OH LOOK ALL OF THIS BLOOD I HAVEN'T BATHED IN WEEKS THIS SEEMS LIKE THE BEST TIME TO DO IT.

Then they run away before you can tell them their insides are going to paint medbay floor soon enough if they don't come get your vaccine and ten minutes later your naked, burning corpse is being dragged around because LYNCH VIRO.

More or less, if a virus is ACCIDENTALLY released, it's rarely viro's fault... But they have the only/best tools to fix these problems so lynch them if there's no vaccine in chemistry by the time the first person dies.

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Re: Virologist Validity: to lynch or not to lynch

Postby lumipharon » Fri Nov 14, 2014 8:55 am #43422

The other thing I have seen more then once, is when the viro tries to get get more blood from themselves/a monkey, but there is still some INFECTED blood in the syringe... so they infect themselves on way or another, then be retarded and go into the medbay to try get a cure... and it snowballs from there.

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Re: Virologist Validity: to lynch or not to lynch

Postby Mickyan » Tue Nov 18, 2014 1:55 pm #44238

lumipharon wrote:I don't care if a viro releases a disease, so long as it doesn't spread, like, holy shit stop making this airborn fever filled viruses, ESPECIALLY when they're dna aid. That should be lynchable, if not OOCly dodgy, because it's literall just handing hulk out to everyone on the station and shrugging your shoulders when everything goes to shit.

Make your good viruses, which can only be tranferred by blood, and ask people specifically they want it, simple as that.

Long time virologist here,
I don't ever spread DNAid airborne as I reserve it to heads and security, but I do still spread things like health regeneration and self respiration like that because there's no reason not to and sneezing has NO NEGATIVE EFFECTS WHATSOEVER. The pros of having the entire station jump out of crit on their own far outweights the cons that a traitor might maybe have it happen to them in extremely unlikely circumstances. It can take several minutes to come up with a decent virus and just as many for it to advance enough to take effect, add in that most of the people treat the virologist like an antag the entire round, shuttle's going to come before your virus had the chance to benefit someone.
Virology is already a shitty thankless job as it is, I'm not going make all my effort go to waste because people don't want some text to pop up on their log from time to time. Don't want to be immortal? Go eat a burger and be done with it.

And despite stating several times in both medical and general radio that I will be spreading a virus, people still freak out because HOLY FUCK I JUST SNEEZED VIROLOGIST IS TATOR.
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Re: Virologist Validity: to lynch or not to lynch

Postby Erbbu » Tue Nov 18, 2014 7:00 pm #44293

but muh emulsions


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