Population Issues

miggles · Post by **miggles** » Fri Nov 14, 2014 12:02 am #43293

This kind of sucks.
With only 72 people online at the time of this screenshot, there are 34 assistants. That's 34 useless people cluttering the hallways without much to do and possibly creating trouble for security, etc.
There really isn't a need for this. Boxstation was not built to accommodate 70+ people, and rounds on Sibyl are clusterfucks because of it.
Should there be a player limit?

EDIT: Not to mention that Badger is constantly lowpop because everyone plays on Sibyl, where there's no lack of people to be found.
Having 2 servers is bad when they are not well balanced, this is what causes server wars and cliques and shit.

Kavaloosh · Post by **Kavaloosh** » Fri Nov 14, 2014 12:05 am #43294

switch to metastation

Post by **oranges** » Fri Nov 14, 2014 12:21 am #43300

My reponse is still no, no limits.

Steelpoint · Post by **Steelpoint** » Fri Nov 14, 2014 1:28 am #43326

When people talk about how /tg/ station's server population is not restricted, I've only heard positive things about it. People oft praise it as a unique feature of /tg/ station. I disagree with the suggestion to introduce a player cap to the servers, however adding a way to advertise a alternative server (Server 2 for 1 or vice versa) when the population hits a certain point would be a fine idea.

paprika · Post by **paprika** » Fri Nov 14, 2014 1:52 am #43331

Add more obviously easily expandable job slots.

2 janitors. 2 chefs, more cargo techs, more MDs, etc.

Switch server 2 to box (metastation isn't being updated anymore, metacide pls come back to us) because the population of people who prefer metastation is so fucking negligible at this point compared to how much it would boost the population to have a second server that was identical mostly to sybil, at least until metacide comes back and actively develops the map or we get a new map to test.

Lo6a4evskiy · Post by **Lo6a4evskiy** » Fri Nov 14, 2014 8:50 am #43421

On one hand, player limit on server is a thing in pretty much every other multiplayer game in the existence (except may be MMO, but you know).

On the other hand, I don't really like that. If 34 people joined as assistants, it means they are okay with it.

Meanwhile HoPs who do their jobs are gonna get restricted because reasons.

So yeah, something like scaling jobs could be done, but otherwise I don't think it's such an issue anyway. Besides the fact that metastation people whine about it, of course.

Grazyn · Post by **Grazyn** » Fri Nov 14, 2014 11:15 am #43437

The issue is obviously the second server running metastation, I remember when we used to have 2 servers running the same map and it worked great to balance the peak hours, with both Sybils hosting around 50 players each. Now people would rather join as assistant than play on metastation. No reason to set a limit, run the same map on both servers and voilà, problem solved.

fleure · Post by **fleure** » Fri Nov 14, 2014 11:44 am #43439

Kavaloosh wrote:switch to metastation

Alas, we can dream, but the main playerbase are so tied to Box they'll have a mental breakdown if we change it.

firecage · Post by **firecage** » Fri Nov 14, 2014 1:07 pm #43454

Or, how about we return to having only 1 server and expand that one servers job system a bit.

Lo6a4evskiy · Post by **Lo6a4evskiy** » Fri Nov 14, 2014 1:30 pm #43459

firecage wrote:Or, how about we return to having only 1 server and expand that one servers job system a bit.

It's really not that simple. There can be only so many people doing one job at once. It's limited by equipment, needs of the crew and the size of departments.

Antonkr · Post by **Antonkr** » Fri Nov 14, 2014 1:36 pm #43462

We need to do what bay did with medbay but with other departments such as research. Expand the map, make shit bigger, add more slots.

Steelpoint · Post by **Steelpoint** » Fri Nov 14, 2014 1:40 pm #43465

Well, here is a older image of my medbay and RnD design for the station I'm making, re purposing our medbay, as well as other station areas, might be a interesting idea to look into breathing new life into the station. Or just making a new map to begin with and/or using one of the alternative maps.

Medbay

Spoiler:

RnD

Spoiler:

I do think having server 2 use a different map is a good idea, but I do agree that having it use the same station as server 1 would make it draw more people in.

QuartzCrystal · Fri Nov 14, 2014 6:21 pm

Asteroid Station when?

bandit · Post by **bandit** » Fri Nov 14, 2014 10:57 pm #43591

The main cause of these issues currently is that Badger is down and has been for days. For all intents and purposes there is currently just one server.

Grazyn · Post by **Grazyn** » Fri Nov 14, 2014 11:09 pm #43596

Even when both servers were on, you would never see 50 people playing on metastation on peak hours

Spacemanspark · Fri Nov 14, 2014 11:35 pm

Put Sybil on Ministation for a bit.

But, in all seriousness, perhaps a new map for Badger would be nice. Don't know if it should be box, maybe something more elaborate.

Saegrimr · Post by **Saegrimr** » Sat Nov 15, 2014 12:17 am #43606

lmao2box

Cipher3 · Post by **Cipher3** » Sat Nov 15, 2014 4:07 am #43640

Spacemanspark wrote:Put Sybil on Ministation for a bit.

Yes.

QuartzCrystal · Sat Nov 15, 2014 4:44 am

ASTEROID STATION IS THE ANSWER.

Cipher3 · Post by **Cipher3** » Sat Nov 15, 2014 4:48 am #43651

Honestly the reason most people cling to Box so desperately is because they cannot stand change or another map, so the only way you'll get Asteroidstation is probably by forcing it for a week and waiting for the screams to die down.

miggles · Post by **miggles** » Sat Nov 15, 2014 6:03 am #43655

i personally cant even comprehend how people can still prefer the same map for like, 4 years or more now, though obviously not everyone who likes box has been around that long
i prefer metastation for sure, but the larger part of the playerbase doesnt seem to (for some dumb reason) and badger never gets enough population to really warrant having 2 maps, especially after artyom died and quite a few regulars left immediately afterwards
one of the servers needs a different map, and currently i think asteroidstation would be best for sibyl since its so large, even though i personally dont like the map

Steelpoint · Post by **Steelpoint** » Sat Nov 15, 2014 6:15 am #43659

People like Boxstation for many reasons, I think the bigger reason is because it is the only map being actively updated and maintained. Asteroid station is only being sporadically updated, Metastation is missing in action and Ministation is unfeasible.

If you want to swap out to a new map, the onus is on you to get dedicated people to bring the maps up to code, not just to swap the maps and hope someone will update it.

Lo6a4evskiy · Post by **Lo6a4evskiy** » Sat Nov 15, 2014 8:31 am #43672

Metastation is cool to look at, not to actually play at.

People implying that metastation (or box for that matter) is absolutely and unquestionably better are stupid. Get over it, jackasses, it's all subjective.

Braincake · Post by **Braincake** » Sat Nov 15, 2014 11:35 am #43688

Cipher3 wrote:Honestly the reason most people cling to Box so desperately is because they cannot stand change or another map, so the only way you'll get Asteroidstation is probably by forcing it for a week and waiting for the screams to die down.

Wasn't there the brief period where Sybil swapped between Meta/Asteroid/Efficiency/Efficiency2 for a while, to get them some attention?

Most of the complaining died a few days into each map, so it should be feasible, though they'd really need some updating by now.

Grazyn · Post by **Grazyn** » Sat Nov 15, 2014 11:42 am #43689

Steelpoint wrote:People like Boxstation for many reasons, I think the bigger reason is because it is the only map being actively updated and maintained. Asteroid station is only being sporadically updated, Metastation is missing in action and Ministation is unfeasible.

If you want to swap out to a new map, the onus is on you to get dedicated people to bring the maps up to code, not just to swap the maps and hope someone will update it.

It's a vicious circle really. Players like boxstation because it's actively maintained and don't want to change to a less polished map, coders keep focusing attention on boxstation because that's where people play more, and so on.

QuartzCrystal · Sat Nov 15, 2014 2:10 pm

Asteroid Station is ready for testing on a server. It's just idling and waiting to be put up either on server 1 or 2.

Lo6a4evskiy · Post by **Lo6a4evskiy** » Sat Nov 15, 2014 2:39 pm #43712

Grazyn wrote:It's a vicious circle really. Players like boxstation because it's actively maintained and don't want to change to a less polished map, coders keep focusing attention on boxstation because that's where people play more, and so on.

What's vicious about the map that is most popular getting better?

Steelpoint · Post by **Steelpoint** » Sat Nov 15, 2014 2:43 pm #43713

I recall about a year ago we did that 'map jam' event where we cycled through several community maps over the course of a few weeks.

I think a semi-regular event like that might make a good alternative/compromise. It highlights other maps, gives feedback to them and possible spurs the idea of running other maps more regularly.

Incoming · Post by **Incoming** » Sat Nov 15, 2014 7:23 pm #43743

Intigracy wrote:I remember when this issue came up before and basically we painted the red house blue and the blue house red. Meta being blue and box being red. The map was switched during an update on both severs, so people who actually wanted to play on box over metastation had to switch servers.

Box's server still ended up having more people even though it started as ridiculous lowpop.

Why is it people who prefer box are willing to change server they play on but people who prefer meta won't?

Keep in mind metacide was still around at this time and frequently updating

I seem to remember making a post back then stating that player allegiances were such that more people who played on sybil were "loyal" to the boxstation map rather than the sybil community and would move around to keep it. Comparatively server 2/phybil/badger/whatever the fuck it was at the time was more "loyal" to their own community and didn't care so much about which map they played so long as they could still play with the same people.

So it came to pass that server 2 boxstation had all the people who preferred box AND all the people who preferred server 2 while server 1 meatstation only had the people who were really into meatstation and a few clueless people who didn't understand we had two servers to begin with.

paprika · Post by **paprika** » Sat Nov 15, 2014 8:04 pm #43748

Box for badger until metacide gets less busy and realizes artyom is dead and updates metastation. Best decision here, basically. Will fix the pop issues since badger is almost identical.

Post by **oranges** » Sun Nov 16, 2014 9:19 am #43842

Box is love, box is life

Rhisereld · Post by **Rhisereld** » Sun Nov 16, 2014 10:00 am #43844

I would move to server 2 if the map was Box, and I'm sure others would too.

Cipher3 · Post by **Cipher3** » Sun Nov 16, 2014 10:22 pm #43894

Okay Rhisereld, why is Box better than Metastation in your opinion?

paprika · Post by **paprika** » Sun Nov 16, 2014 10:33 pm #43896

Imo it's being updated, which is better for coders to not edit 2 maps when it comes to pathing, which is a huge maintainability issue.

Unless metacide comes back and takes care of it himself there's no reason to force contributors to make twice as many already obnoxious map edits that conflict all the time. It's pretty much awful.

Scott · Post by **Scott** » Sun Nov 16, 2014 10:47 pm #43899

Steelpoint wrote:I recall about a year ago we did that 'map jam' event where we cycled through several community maps over the course of a few weeks.

I think a semi-regular event like that might make a good alternative/compromise. It highlights other maps, gives feedback to them and possible spurs the idea of running other maps more regularly.

Efficiency 1 was great. I also liked Asteroidstation.

Lo6a4evskiy · Post by **Lo6a4evskiy** » Mon Nov 17, 2014 10:09 am #43969

Cipher3 wrote:Okay Rhisereld, why is Box better than Metastation in your opinion?

Are you really trying to disprove someone's opinion?

Okay, well, may be I'm jumping to conclusions here, but really, it doesn't matter what arguments you bring towards either map as long as the majority prefers the other one. It's subjective, man.

bandit · Post by **bandit** » Mon Nov 17, 2014 12:57 pm #43981

The funny thing is, a lot of people's only argument against Box "back in the day" was that it was "stale" and "never updated." And now that it is... they still cling to being anti-Box, despite having no reasons left.

Post by **MMMiracles** » Mon Nov 17, 2014 1:12 pm #43985

Or maybe just because they just don't like boxstation. While I understand liking a map, I don't understand how you can play the same map over and over without it getting even remotely stale, for both box and meta.

IMO there should be a weekly map rotation of a pool of updated maps to keep things more varied, but put server 1 and 2 on different rotations so if you don't like whats on server 1, you could just go to server 2, or vice versa.

Giacom · Post by **Giacom** » Mon Nov 17, 2014 1:30 pm #43989

That involves having to compile the code, which means 1-3 minutes that players can't automatically rejoin.

Post by **MMMiracles** » Mon Nov 17, 2014 1:32 pm #43990

Is it really that hard to wait an extra 1-3 minutes for a round that usually lasts around an hour or two?

Scott · Post by **Scott** » Mon Nov 17, 2014 5:02 pm #44018

Why not compile the code several times once and choose the files accordingly?

MrGlasses · Post by **MrGlasses** » Mon Nov 17, 2014 6:26 pm #44032

We shouldn't limit how many people can play on the servers.

That being said is there a way for us to auto-direct people to a different server once the population of one exceeds a certain threshold? Or until both servers are balanced, starting at a certain population on one server.

Post by **NikNakFlak** » Mon Nov 17, 2014 8:21 pm #44054

Rename badger to sybil.
Have two identical sybil servers.
Once population overflows on one, have any connections to go to the other identical sybil.
People connect on that sybil and play on it. Not knowing which sybil they are playing on, just knowing one has less people. But since everyone is automatically connected to the other sybil once the previous sybil reaches a set population, it wont be barren.

Its the perfect plan...

Cipher3 · Post by **Cipher3** » Mon Nov 17, 2014 10:12 pm #44081

Lo6a4evskiy wrote:
Cipher3 wrote:Okay Rhisereld, why is Box better than Metastation in your opinion?
Are you really trying to disprove someone's opinion?

Okay, well, may be I'm jumping to conclusions here, but really, it doesn't matter what arguments you bring towards either map as long as the majority prefers the other one. It's subjective, man.

I just want to know why people feel that way since they're really not that different.

mrpain · Post by **mrpain** » Mon Nov 17, 2014 10:13 pm #44082

Clearly, if this many people want to play, and the only job we have open during high pop rounds is assistant, many of those times there are already nearly 20 of them on the station, it's time to expand the station and the job system.

Not change the station or anything, but expand to it. Maybe add to departments, or maybe even add a department altogether. Time to think outside the box!

Personally I'd like to see some sort of xeno artifact system.

Lo6a4evskiy · Post by **Lo6a4evskiy** » Tue Nov 18, 2014 10:38 am #44216

NikNakFlak wrote:Rename badger to sybil.
Have two identical sybil servers.
Once population overflows on one, have any connections to go to the other identical sybil.
People connect on that sybil and play on it. Not knowing which sybil they are playing on, just knowing one has less people. But since everyone is automatically connected to the other sybil once the previous sybil reaches a set population, it wont be barren.

Its the perfect plan...

>get disconnected
>can't get back because someone took your place
That's a horrible idea. It's not a big enough issue to justify denying people access to a server. Plus people will just disconnect when they see lowpop.

map voter

And see people suicide/disconnect because they didn't get the map they wanted.

Grazyn · Post by **Grazyn** » Tue Nov 18, 2014 11:35 am #44226

People already disconnect at roundstart when they don't get antag, I say let them

mrpain · Post by **mrpain** » Wed Nov 19, 2014 3:30 am #44437

New Job Idea

Customs Officer

Spawns at Centcomm

All new arrivals will have to go through the process of getting checked and searched by customs before they are allowed to come to the main station. New arrivals have a chance to spawn with illegal contraband.

New Job Idea

Immigration Officer

Spawns at Centcomm

Will have to help all new arrivals fill out the proper immigration papers before they are allowed to come to the main station. Has a branding iron used to mark all immigrants so that they can be properly discriminated on the main station.

Spacemanspark · Wed Nov 19, 2014 3:36 am

mrpain wrote:New Job Idea

Customs Officer

Spawns at Centcomm

All new arrivals will have to go through the process of getting checked and searched by customs before they are allowed to come to the main station. New arrivals have a chance to spawn with illegal contraband.

New Job Idea

Immigration Officer

Spawns at Centcomm

Will have to help all new arrivals fill out the proper immigration papers before they are allowed to come to the main station. Has a branding iron used to mark all immigrants so that they can be properly discriminated on the main station.

No.
Last time I did customs officer on a server, I had to arrest an Emergency Response Team trying to arrest me because someone broke a window and electrocuted themselves near my area.
There was also riots, multiple security officers couldn't handle it, etc..
We eventually just had to flashbang everything.
It's the most stressful job on the station.
And, mind you, this was a medium RP server.
It happens with every person who does customs.
Immigration officer will likely have the same effect.

Rhisereld · Post by **Rhisereld** » Wed Nov 19, 2014 7:47 am #44488

Cipher3 wrote:Okay Rhisereld, why is Box better than Metastation in your opinion?

Personal preference.