Population Issues

[miggles]

Bottom post of the previous page:

This kind of sucks.
With only 72 people online at the time of this screenshot, there are 34 assistants. That's 34 useless people cluttering the hallways without much to do and possibly creating trouble for security, etc.
There really isn't a need for this. Boxstation was not built to accommodate 70+ people, and rounds on Sibyl are clusterfucks because of it.
Should there be a player limit?

EDIT: Not to mention that Badger is constantly lowpop because everyone plays on Sibyl, where there's no lack of people to be found.
Having 2 servers is bad when they are not well balanced, this is what causes server wars and cliques and shit.

[Wyzack]

I know Paprka is always a dick as is in his nature, but is this what the people in charge feel too? Server 2 can only exist as it is for as long as our space is not useful to the server 1 crowd? Because right now we hit 30ish players consistently at peak times and things are pretty great. Cocking the whole deal up for the benefit of the people who play on server 1 seems like bullshit

[Raven776]

Having an overflow of players is hurting sybil, our primary server, so fuck what you think okay? Server 2 culture is stupid as fuck.

There are enough people on server one and two to make two full servers.

People who go to server 2 play server 2 for what it is though.

There are not enough people on just server 1 for two servers.

If you overflow server 1 onto a new server without the playerbase that already existed on server 2, you'll kill the server for a while because the people who go there for fewer players will get swarmed and leave, and the people who are suddenly there with very few players who prefer Sybil's higher playerbase will leave because they're suddenly there all alone.

Badger reveals the exceptions to a lot of ideas for TG. 4 hour rounds with antags exist. Station repairs happen. Roleplay happens. This has been true for every 'server 2' mentality, and it's clear that the people who prefer the occasional long as fuck round with body retrieval and cloning backups being more common (because they actually mean something when you can clone more than 10 people in a round before the shuttle comes) won't stick around when the new mentality people come along.

You see less ghosting at round start on badger during peak and later hours, less suicide, and more people dip into rooms to come back later in the round. Murderbones are less common (though more deadly) and things are just... Different.

If you want 60 people on server 1, you'll force 30+ people onto server 2 that will chase the half of the 30 people there away. Then off hours will be empty entirely.

[paprika]

Your logic is awful I don't care, we've done this before, box on server 2 to catch the overflow from sybil is much better than catering to a tiny minority of players who prefer to stay a minority.

Sybil not being fucking awful at highpop with 30+ assistants because we have a second box server >>>>>>>>>>>>> server 2 being dead on the slow hours

Seriously, this isn't even a debate, the second server exists for this purpose

[danno]

i skimmed

why would you force 30~ people to play on a map they don't want

like
whhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhy
how do you not realise how bad that is

[Wyzack]

Would really like it if someone other than pap could weigh in here. Raven has a point anyways, switching the map will make a good portion of the 30ish badger regulars leave, and then the sybil players will not want to be there because lowpop

[Malkevin]

I personally dont like how overcrowded sybil is, but I dislike under populated badger even more.

And really the two servers should be the same as they originally were, they were created because prime time euro and prime time murrica was consistently breaching the 100 players mark, so a second server was created to balance the load so that the player numbers went down to what the game was designed for.

Server two wasn't created to offer a different play style - so sorry server 2 elitists, you'll have to make do with your server having its meta clique bubble burst by transient players.

[Wyzack]

I really dislike this argument. All of the people claiming that server 2 is an unjoinable clique are talking about shit done by players who are now long gone. Come play on server 2 now and see if it is still like that.

[dezzmont]

Once upon a time there were 3 servers.

It sucked because admins didn't spend their time evenly between the two primary servers and deliberately created differences in tone between the supposedly identical servers.

The end.

For real though we can't even talk about having two servers with enforced population leveling without talking about policy to prevent this from happening. If the servers are deliberately different with different cultures and maps there is no way they should have enforced populations, and there needs to be enforcement of admin coverage too, which means a more authoritarian administration beuracracy which will not happen.

[Wyzack]

Hell, even with only 2 servers we hardly get any admin coverage on badger.

[dezzmont]

Hell, even with only 2 servers we hardly get any admin coverage on badger.

That is because Badger is deliberately different. An idea that has merit but which makes forcing admins to split between Badger and Sibyl even more beuracratic and overtly controling than forcing them to split between two Sibys.

[Scones]

I've played my share of Badger. Don't get me wrong, it's nice to have a server where the playerbase is typically more inclined to RP etc.

But the population is so low sometimes that I honestly find it drastically affects the gameplay. There can be 15 people online but no Security. Antag becomes paltry because there is no decently-equipped force to oppose you. Literally the only thing that can stop you are people grouping up because their in some RP situation.

If I had to vote: But Box on Badger. Server 2 is meant to handle Server 1 overflow, not support a different culture and community.

[danno]

so sorry server 2 elitists, you'll have to make do with your server having its meta clique bubble burst by transient players.

said a server 1 elitist

the elitist bullshit comes from both servers in practically equal doses
you're all fucking idiots if you do it, there is no distinction between you or a "server 2 elitist"

[Malkevin]

I used to play on server 2 back in the day...

So yeah, nice try Mr. 'I Don't Even Log In Twice a Month'

[Wyzack]

He is right though, Malk. Server elitism is retarded.

[danno]

i've been playing daily for like over a week now
it's a video game
i don't owe it to anyone to play and can not-play whenever i like
because it's a video game

don't even tell me you didn't sound exactly like any typical ss13 elitist anyways

[Scones]

Sybil is so often such a high-pop clusterfuck that IMO it's hardly elitest

The same cannot be said of those who circlejerk server 2 in every thread that dares imply it's meant for overflow and not community #2

[Scones]

Sybil is so often such a high-pop clusterfuck that IMO it's hardly elitest

The same cannot be said of those who circlejerk server 2 in every thread that dares imply it's meant for overflow and not community #2

[danno]

i'd never defend any elitist
pretending that they don't exist on server 1 is naive though
they're on both servers and they're all garbage

you keep making it out like everyone on server 2 is being greedy about this and doesn't want to be tainted by server 1 or something
and i'm not going to pretend there aren't retards who feel exactly that way but i play on server 2 and i don't, and i know a lot of people who play on it who don't either.
the point is that you're trying to force a bunch of people to play a map they don't want for a reason that probably won't even WORK.

[Antonkr]

The issue with le server 2 was bad is the fact that infact Server was the fucking model for what /tg/ headmins and current administration want to lead us to, a medium RP server. Bullshit aside, the two play very differently due to different people and all being online, as well as a different map.

[Raven776]

The issue with le server 2 was bad is the fact that infact Server was the fucking model for what /tg/ headmins and current administration want to lead us to, a medium RP server. Bullshit aside, the two play very differently due to different people and all being online, as well as a different map.

I think the way server 2 exists proves that TG's code and ruleset CAN lead to bay-tier round lengths and whatnot. Other than that, I don't really care too much one way or the other.

But I will say that I find it unlikely that the population issue will be solved by changing server 2 to box. The only real difference between the servers is the map and playerbase, and I'm not too convinced that the overflow will flow as you think it will.

Just get more job slots. It's as easy as putting down a single spare set of tools in a department. Another hardsuit or janitor locker will do wonders.

Or you could have HoPs that actually open up job slots like they're supposed to. The big problem with long rounds on Sybil is that MDs, cargo techs, and security seems to enjoy suiciding randomly, and if the HoP is off being the Owl then there will never be a true replacement.

People complain about scientists not having anything to do when there are too many, but it's literally the job of infinite possibilities. There is nothing stopping you from upgrading EVERY MACHINE on the station, creating an augmentation bay, or doing something else stupid but interesting. More slots for that could work.

Or just add more jobs entirely... Or make the gateway ALWAYS lead to somewhere hostile and interesting instead of the fucking beach. The moon base was some of the best fun I've had on SS13 in a while, and it meant a lot of assistants were suddenly finding their fun off station if they weren't antagging it up.

[Cipher3]

So yeah, nice try Mr. 'I Don't Even Log In Twice a Month'

I can't believe somebody actually decided to use that title as an argument.

so sorry server 2 elitists, you'll have to make do with your server having its meta clique bubble burst by transient players.

said a server 1 elitist

the elitist bullshit comes from both servers in practically equal doses
you're all fucking idiots if you do it, there is no distinction between you or a "server 2 elitist"

Danno's actually pretty right here, though.

I used to play on server 2 back in the day...'

And Malkevin you just admitted you haven't been on server 2 in a long while, so why are you attempting to stigmatize and insult everyone on it for having different preferences than you? This cancerous attitude is actually the kind of thing to cause server division.

[Malkevin]

Uh huh... read back a few pages, count how many people have been opposed to "Sybilians invading their Badger".
Singulo has even more people posting that.

My post was a direct response to people using that argument.

[paprika]

This is about the health of server 1, our server with more population

Yes that makes it more important than server 2

[danno]

So yeah, nice try Mr. 'I Don't Even Log In Twice a Month'

I can't believe somebody actually decided to use that title as an argument.

i actually snorted when i read it
HG giving titles like that to people is beyond contradictory it's hilarious

[miggles]

actually i made this thread with server 2 in mind because it gets nopop and That's No Good!.sonic (maybe because its on ass station??)
shitloads of players is actually something you can get used to, but once you log on and join and see "Jobs open: Assistant (32)" thats when you suddenly realize it's not a good kind of getting used to. it's more like accepting the status quo just because you know it wont go away.
player limit is my go-to idea, but everyone knows that won't happen, at least as long as the servers use different maps. having 32 assistants running around isnt really fun for anyone involved, as far as im concerned. i mean, if anyone would like to raise their hand and say "i like having my station half populated with people who have no access, a higher than average tendency to grief, and probably have nothing useful to do" go ahead. but i don't like that, and i dont like having to BE that, either.

[kosmos]

NECRO TIME

If you want a conclusive answer as to whether it's the map or the server/community, pull the rug out from under people. A 2 or 3 day experiment with Box on Badger and Asteroid on Sibyl. If it's really just the map, we should be back to the status quo in a day or two as people log in to their server and figure out why their usual map is all different and then go where they prefer. If we don't hit the status quo, there's clearly something else at work.

It would be really interesting to see what happened here. I'm fairly sure most people don't like the other maps than Box because being robust = 50% just knowing the map inside out. It wouldn't be so bad if everyone were as unrobust, learning the map together.

Have both servers use Box for 2 days, then Efficiency, then Asteroid, or whichever of the maps are up to date. And after that's over, maybe at least few people would notice how they liked the other map and move to Badger, evening the population out, and Badger could implement a voting system which map to switch to every other round.

We could even make this an event which happens every few months, it would be called The Map Switcheroo.

[Steelpoint]

We already did that, nothing changed.

[Vigilare]

server 2 regular here, what up.

see I play badger because it's not like 50 players (and on peak hours it might juuust reach 30)
less players = less chance of you being spaced 4nr by greytide

like, on the sliding scale of bay to goon
bay ---- badger ---- sibyl ---- goon

there's more rp on badger, but not to the 'twenty minutes brig for not filling out your paperwork' extent
whereas on sibyl it's more laid-back, but by extension people can do more griffy things

badger = lowpop* --> life is more valuable b/c less people --> you're actually gonna get cloned if you have suit sensors on
lowpop --> smaller playerbase at any one time --> more rp, people know each other (but then again you get metabuddies who give each other eswords at roundstart)

sibyl = highpop --> life is less valuable b/c more people, you're not as vital --> nobody gonna look for your body 'less they need to
highpop --> larger playerbase at any one time --> more activity, people gonna do whatever and you just roll with it (but then again you get griffons who slipstunstripspace you)

why don't we just make another server that runs box
that way the sibyl overflow can go there b/c they love box
it'd end up like

sibyl highpop box // badger low-mediumpop eff3 // ??? low-mediumpop box

*so when I say badger is lowpop I don't mean 'four players at once' that almost never happens

[Ikarrus]

Badger has grown to the point where it can have a reasonably self-sustaining population without losing the lowpop that makes it attractive as an alternative.

We can stop with trying to trick people into playing there now.

[Comrade Leo]

(but then again you get metabuddies who give each other eswords at roundstart)

This never happens, meta-friending is myth.

[miggles]

says the NOTORIOUS META-FRIENDER!!!

[Comrade Leo]

says the NOTORIOUS META-FRIENDER!!!

Avert your eyes from this scandal immediately.

[Bombadil]

Well, here is a older image of my medbay and RnD design for the station I'm making, re purposing our medbay, as well as other station areas, might be a interesting idea to look into breathing new life into the station. Or just making a new map to begin with and/or using one of the alternative maps.

Medbay

Spoiler:

RnD

Spoiler:

I do think having server 2 use a different map is a good idea, but I do agree that having it use the same station as server 1 would make it draw more people in.

Every fucking time.

That fucking security station is horrible

[Bombadil]

Well, here is a older image of my medbay and RnD design for the station I'm making, re purposing our medbay, as well as other station areas, might be a interesting idea to look into breathing new life into the station. Or just making a new map to begin with and/or using one of the alternative maps.

Medbay

Spoiler:

RnD

Spoiler:

I do think having server 2 use a different map is a good idea, but I do agree that having it use the same station as server 1 would make it draw more people in.

Every fucking time.

That fucking security station is horrible

[Cipher3]

Also everyone on Badger likes Efficiency. On Asteroid a number of people complained, and yet I rarely hear anything about Efficiency. Everything's solid now guys.

[miggles]

yeah ass was ass
eff is nice