Page 2 of 3
Roundstart Suicide as Antagonist/Wizard
Posted: Mon Oct 22, 2018 11:58 am
by Steelpoint
Bottom post of the previous page:
In recent time I've noticed a major trend of Wizard players rushing to commit suicide as fast as possible. This extends usually out of a desire to attain a "top score" for fastest suicide, or out of other desires such as a dislike of the round type.
I believe that round start suiciding as a Wizard, or any antagonist in general, is in poor form to the game and should not be something that people do. The ultimate objective of an antagonist is to drive the events of the round, but by killing themselves before the round has even had a chance to start, they rob the round of any interesting events, waste everyone's time, but they also deny other people the opportunity to take the place of that antagonist that was taken for a bad joke.
(A older Headmin ruling did technically state that round start suiciding as a important role is a bannable offence, though I think that is more in relation to Head of Staff roles, nonetheless I think it is worth mentioning.)
While Antagonists are, under the rules, allowed to do (almost) anything, I nonetheless believe that this act is in poor form and should be heavily discouraged, such as the individual losing their access to that antagonist for a short period, as it does not serve to be conductive to an interesting game.
Re: Roundstart Suicide as Antagonist/Wizard
Posted: Tue Oct 23, 2018 5:36 am
by oranges
>he's still persisting with the nobody likes wizard line of attack
hyperlul
Re: Roundstart Suicide as Antagonist/Wizard
Posted: Tue Oct 23, 2018 5:38 am
by Malkraz
I don't care whether or not someone with an IQ 3 standard deviations below my own thinks they enjoy Wizard rounds. Heroes don't always receive thanks.
Re: Roundstart Suicide as Antagonist/Wizard
Posted: Tue Oct 23, 2018 6:31 am
by Boris
IC issue, antags can do what they want.
Re: Roundstart Suicide as Antagonist/Wizard
Posted: Tue Oct 23, 2018 6:38 am
by Karp
PKPenguin321 wrote:Ispiria wrote:PKPenguin321 wrote:This is already bannable
Citation badly needed
cant find the ban anymore since it's really really old but it happened before
thought kor did the ban but i cant find it in his bans either so honestly i have no idea where the citation is, but i dont actually care enough about this to keep digging
ironically kor was the first player i really saw do suicide wizard on tg roundstart repeatedly
but punishing for this is the dumbest thing an admin can do
It literally doesn't harm anyone except the person who suicides
Re: Roundstart Suicide as Antagonist/Wizard
Posted: Tue Oct 23, 2018 7:32 am
by PKPenguin321
yeah i think it's dumb to ban for too, just wanted to point out precedent although admittedly i didn't do a very good job of that
Re: Roundstart Suicide as Antagonist/Wizard
Posted: Tue Oct 23, 2018 12:09 pm
by BeeSting12
PKPenguin321 wrote:Ispiria wrote:PKPenguin321 wrote:This is already bannable
Citation badly needed
cant find the ban anymore since it's really really old but it happened before
thought kor did the ban but i cant find it in his bans either so honestly i have no idea where the citation is, but i dont actually care enough about this to keep digging
I can't really see kor banning anyone for this considering the fact I've watched him named himself "suicide" and then suicide as a wizard.
Re: Roundstart Suicide as Antagonist/Wizard
Posted: Tue Oct 23, 2018 12:10 pm
by BeeSting12
Re: Roundstart Suicide as Antagonist/Wizard
Posted: Tue Oct 23, 2018 2:31 pm
by Cobby
NoxVS wrote:.
It’s an open source codebase if you don’t like the mode the duty is on you to
1) fix it to where you will play it
2) not play it/ optin to the role
Also being stealthy is not actively avoiding the conflict (although I’m sure there’s some people who just don’t do anything), and surely you realize traitor/changeling typically come in multiple AND the round doesn’t end when they’re all trash.
Trying to claim it’s my job to make sure you find the opt-in role enjoyable is dumb both as an admin as well as a player. Ending the round immediately is just shitty to the point where rule 1 should be enforced.
Re: Roundstart Suicide as Antagonist/Wizard
Posted: Tue Oct 23, 2018 2:33 pm
by Cobby
Boris wrote:IC issue, antags can do what they want.
Ending the round immediately to troll players is about as ooc as it can get
Re: Roundstart Suicide as Antagonist/Wizard
Posted: Tue Oct 23, 2018 3:39 pm
by Suicidalpickles
i think ive suicided like six times or so by now as wiz, so I'd be due for six wizard bans if it were bannable
usually i do it when im like feeling stumped on a gimmick or something instead of just boredly murderboning through with fireball spam like any other wizard, just because i manage to roll it so many times you can only do so much
can also agree on summon magic/guns/events being utterly shit with their round delay
Re: Roundstart Suicide as Antagonist/Wizard
Posted: Tue Oct 23, 2018 3:46 pm
by Doritos
if they don't want to play wizard then aid them by banning them from wizard.
Re: Roundstart Suicide as Antagonist/Wizard
Posted: Tue Oct 23, 2018 4:46 pm
by Nilons
Doritos wrote:if they don't want to play wizard then aid them by banning them from wizard.
okay but what if they do wanna play wizard because they think its funny to suicide as wizard
Re: Roundstart Suicide as Antagonist/Wizard
Posted: Tue Oct 23, 2018 5:10 pm
by leibniz
Nilons wrote:Doritos wrote:if they don't want to play wizard then aid them by banning them from wizard.
okay but what if they do wanna play wizard because they think its funny to suicide as wizard
It's not really fair to people who are trying to roll wizard and actually do something with it.
Anyway, I think it'd be really hard for admins to produce a precedent for suiciding being disallowed but it could be established now.
Re: Roundstart Suicide as Antagonist/Wizard
Posted: Tue Oct 23, 2018 5:31 pm
by Cobby
Suicidalpickles wrote:i think ive suicided like six times or so by now as wiz, so I'd be due for six wizard bans if it were bannable
usually i do it when im like feeling stumped on a gimmick or something instead of just boredly murderboning through with fireball spam like any other wizard, just because i manage to roll it so many times you can only do so much
can also agree on summon magic/guns/events being utterly shit with their round delay
Ahelp to get replaced and/or set your preferences off.
We don't retroactively enforce rules that we add so you're due for 0 bans.
Re: Roundstart Suicide as Antagonist/Wizard
Posted: Tue Oct 23, 2018 5:35 pm
by Cobby
leibniz wrote:Nilons wrote:Doritos wrote:if they don't want to play wizard then aid them by banning them from wizard.
okay but what if they do wanna play wizard because they think its funny to suicide as wizard
It's not really fair to people who are trying to roll wizard and actually do something with it.
Anyway, I think it'd be really hard for admins to produce a precedent for suiciding being disallowed but it could be established now.
Yeah I agree.
I think suiciding is fine if it didn't instantly end the round and that wasn't people's explicit intent to do so. If a rule would be generated, it should explicitly cover individuals who suicide with the intent to end the round for others.
Re: Roundstart Suicide as Antagonist/Wizard
Posted: Tue Oct 23, 2018 5:44 pm
by Nilons
leibniz wrote:Nilons wrote:Doritos wrote:if they don't want to play wizard then aid them by banning them from wizard.
okay but what if they do wanna play wizard because they think its funny to suicide as wizard
It's not really fair to people who are trying to roll wizard and actually do something with it.
fair actually
Re: Roundstart Suicide as Antagonist/Wizard
Posted: Tue Oct 23, 2018 5:47 pm
by BeeSting12
what if i want to roll wizard to suicide with the ban hammer
Re: Roundstart Suicide as Antagonist/Wizard
Posted: Tue Oct 23, 2018 5:50 pm
by Gamarr
Cobby wrote:
Ahelp to get replaced and/or set your preferences off.
This, except it should take crewman from the station in replacement rather than ghosts. The crew playing were trying their roll for something and should have a priority over ghosts who are observing and tend to get the freebies as it is. This is especially needed for such rare things as wizard, which I personally haven't been in months upon months.
Nilons wrote:
okay but what if they do wanna play wizard because they think its funny to suicide as wizard
This is like reading WGW. Stop entertaining such stupidity to the detriment of everybody else.
Re: Roundstart Suicide as Antagonist/Wizard
Posted: Tue Oct 23, 2018 9:02 pm
by NikNakFlak
Suiciding as wizard should secretively ban people from the role
that or headmins should randomly turn on mulligan and watch people get salty from suiciding but the round continuing
both would be pretty funny but unlikely to happen
Re: Roundstart Suicide as Antagonist/Wizard
Posted: Wed Oct 24, 2018 1:33 am
by sentient_loaf
Malkraz's arguemnts relies on everyone hating wizard.Forcing your view of fun on other people is just a dick move.Suiciding roundstart as a wizard serves no purpose other than to stop others from playing because you don't like it."Blob is dumb,so I'm going select yes to the spawn than suicide."It's just dumb.
Re: Roundstart Suicide as Antagonist/Wizard
Posted: Wed Oct 24, 2018 2:13 am
by wesoda25
sentient_loaf wrote:Malkraz's arguemnts relies on everyone hating wizard.Forcing your view of fun on other people is just a dick move.Suiciding roundstart as a wizard serves no purpose other than to stop others from playing because you don't like it."Blob is dumb,so I'm going select yes to the spawn than suicide."It's just dumb.
You chose the wrong metaphor. Blob players who suicide are heros. Hell an admin gave me a blob token for it.
Re: Roundstart Suicide as Antagonist/Wizard
Posted: Wed Oct 24, 2018 2:16 am
by Steelpoint
Blob is a separate issue since they have a tendency of spawning very late into the round, usually when the crew is trying to evacuate, and as such the crew are less able to deal with the Blob.
Claiming you suicide as a Wizard because you don't want to play the role, or can't think of something to do with it, seems like a very poor excuse. In the past people just turn off their Wiz pref, or more likely they tell the admins they don't wanna play the role and the admins then offer it to a ghosted player (of which there are usually a few lurking around).
Re: Roundstart Suicide as Antagonist/Wizard
Posted: Wed Oct 24, 2018 3:50 am
by Malkraz
Re: Roundstart Suicide as Antagonist/Wizard
Posted: Wed Oct 24, 2018 3:55 am
by PKPenguin321
Malkraz wrote:
literally laughed out loud
Re: Roundstart Suicide as Antagonist/Wizard
Posted: Wed Oct 24, 2018 6:44 am
by CreationPro
Very good, wholesome meme, good job!
Re: Roundstart Suicide as Antagonist/Wizard
Posted: Wed Oct 24, 2018 7:31 am
by Grazyn
sentient_loaf wrote:Malkraz's arguemnts relies on everyone hating wizard.Forcing your view of fun on other people is just a dick move.Suiciding roundstart as a wizard serves no purpose other than to stop others from playing because you don't like it."Blob is dumb,so I'm going select yes to the spawn than suicide."It's just dumb.
Banning should be a punishment for doing something that negatively affects other players. Committing suicide at roundstart as wizard doesn't have a negative effect on anyone, because the round either restarts before you have time to do anything (so no "baww he ruined my project by ending the round") or admins mulligan it and then it just goes on as a regular round.
Re: Roundstart Suicide as Antagonist/Wizard
Posted: Wed Oct 24, 2018 8:19 am
by Arianya
Grazyn wrote:sentient_loaf wrote:Malkraz's arguemnts relies on everyone hating wizard.Forcing your view of fun on other people is just a dick move.Suiciding roundstart as a wizard serves no purpose other than to stop others from playing because you don't like it."Blob is dumb,so I'm going select yes to the spawn than suicide."It's just dumb.
Banning should be a punishment for doing something that negatively affects other players. Committing suicide at roundstart as wizard doesn't have a negative effect on anyone, because the round either restarts before you have time to do anything (so no "baww he ruined my project by ending the round") or admins mulligan it and then it just goes on as a regular round.
For reference, we can't mulligan the round unless we know beforehand the wizard is going to do that, since the round ends almost immediately on their death (give or take 5 seconds or so).
Re: Roundstart Suicide as Antagonist/Wizard
Posted: Wed Oct 24, 2018 8:26 am
by Grazyn
Mulligan only makes traitors/changelings, right? So that's even better if it doesn't get mulliganed, the round restarts and it's a fresh start with fresh odds for whatever other interesting mode
Re: Roundstart Suicide as Antagonist/Wizard
Posted: Wed Oct 24, 2018 1:57 pm
by WarbossLincoln
Can admins mess with player settings? If so instead of banning them when you see someone suicide as a wizard just turn their wizard preference off without telling them.
Re: Roundstart Suicide as Antagonist/Wizard
Posted: Wed Oct 24, 2018 8:49 pm
by SpaceManiac
WarbossLincoln wrote:Can admins mess with player settings? If so instead of banning them when you see someone suicide as a wizard just turn their wizard preference off without telling them.
This is a terrible idea. Changing someone's settings without telling them is inherently confusing and unexpected and basically a cardinal sin of UX.
Banning wizards for not murderboning would be pretty in-character though. Last time I rolled wizard and didn't murderbone the admins just spawned another wizard who did.
Re: Roundstart Suicide as Antagonist/Wizard
Posted: Wed Oct 24, 2018 9:22 pm
by Ayy Lemoh
SpaceManiac wrote:Banning wizards for not murderboning would be pretty in-character though.
It's either antags can do whatever they want besides obvious bad stuff or antags must follow a strict set of guidelines that is basically the reverse version of HRP guidelines. Forced murderboning sounds just as lame as forced roleplay. Also, Friendly wizards may be boring but that is no fucking excuse to decide:
no you're playing antag wrong you fucking dumbass you're supposed to recall the shuttle 100 times while gibbing everyone are you fucking aut- dude, are you even listenin- yep you're banned
Re: Roundstart Suicide as Antagonist/Wizard
Posted: Wed Oct 24, 2018 10:45 pm
by Cobby
Grazyn wrote:Mulligan only makes traitors/changelings, right? So that's even better if it doesn't get mulliganed, the round restarts and it's a fresh start with fresh odds for whatever other interesting mode
Or you could just not suicide and we could actually play an interesting mode that isn't traitor/ling without having to hope RNG gives us a non-traitor/ling round in the future.
Re: Roundstart Suicide as Antagonist/Wizard
Posted: Thu Oct 25, 2018 5:40 am
by SpaceManiac
Ayy Lemoh wrote:SpaceManiac wrote:Banning wizards for not murderboning would be pretty in-character though.
It's either antags can do whatever they want besides obvious bad stuff or antags must follow a strict set of guidelines that is basically the reverse version of HRP guidelines. Forced murderboning sounds just as lame as forced roleplay. Also, Friendly wizards may be boring but that is no fucking excuse to decide:
no you're playing antag wrong you fucking dumbass you're supposed to recall the shuttle 100 times while gibbing everyone are you fucking aut- dude, are you even listenin- yep you're banned
Honestly Wizard is so specced for death and destruction you basically have to murderbone if you don't want to be memed on for being "too stealthy"
Re: Roundstart Suicide as Antagonist/Wizard
Posted: Thu Oct 25, 2018 8:37 am
by subject217
WarbossLincoln wrote:Can admins mess with player settings? If so instead of banning them when you see someone suicide as a wizard just turn their wizard preference off without telling them.
This would be adminbuse. Either make a rule about it or piss off. The idea of passive aggressively going behind a player's back because they did something you don't like but won't actually stand up to them is incredibly stupid.
Re: Roundstart Suicide as Antagonist/Wizard
Posted: Thu Oct 25, 2018 8:59 am
by Grazyn
Isn't that what they do already with hidden notes?
Re: Roundstart Suicide as Antagonist/Wizard
Posted: Thu Oct 25, 2018 10:06 am
by Arianya
Wheres my NPC emote for
"modifying someones game preferences and secret notes are exactly the same"
Re: Roundstart Suicide as Antagonist/Wizard
Posted: Thu Oct 25, 2018 10:12 am
by Grazyn
You're right, secret notes are much worse. You can still notice your preference is turned off and turn it back on, hidden notes you don't even know they're there and even if you know, you can't remove them
Re: Roundstart Suicide as Antagonist/Wizard
Posted: Thu Oct 25, 2018 10:13 am
by leibniz
Anyway, the best way to communicate this would be a red prompt text they get when they spawn in telling them to ahelp if they dont want to be a wizard.
Re: Roundstart Suicide as Antagonist/Wizard
Posted: Thu Oct 25, 2018 10:19 am
by Grazyn
leibniz wrote:Anyway, the best way to communicate this would be a red prompt text they get when they spawn in telling them to ahelp if they dont want to be a wizard.
I think they commit suicide specifically to avoid having to observe a wizard round, which can easily turn into friendly wizard aka extended or boring mulligan round
Re: Roundstart Suicide as Antagonist/Wizard
Posted: Thu Oct 25, 2018 10:54 am
by leibniz
Grazyn wrote:leibniz wrote:Anyway, the best way to communicate this would be a red prompt text they get when they spawn in telling them to ahelp if they dont want to be a wizard.
I think they commit suicide specifically to avoid having to observe a wizard round, which can easily turn into friendly wizard aka extended or boring mulligan round
Before, fine.
If it becomes disallowed, then they should opt out of the wizard roll.
Re: Roundstart Suicide as Antagonist/Wizard
Posted: Thu Oct 25, 2018 9:02 pm
by NikNakFlak
I think when wizards do interesting things it's fun
like artificer wizards
4 apprentice wizards
4 mindswap apprentice wizards
a murderbone wizard with a good loadout of spells like fireball repulse ei-nath who puts up a hearty fight before dying 20-30 minutes in (almost like a rev round in length)
rod meme wizards
a wizard who takes blink 5 times and spams it until they eventually get dunked
all funny and interesting to me honestly
Re: Roundstart Suicide as Antagonist/Wizard
Posted: Fri Oct 26, 2018 12:15 am
by subject217
5x magic missile is quite simply the most fun you can have as a wizard. Bonus points if you convince admins to play
the song
Grazyn wrote:You're right, secret notes are much worse. You can still notice your preference is turned off and turn it back on, hidden notes you don't even know they're there and even if you know, you can't remove them
Secret notes are only used for things that legitimately need to be secret, and it's just some words on your notes page. Completely different from modifying someone's ingame experience passive-aggressively because you don't like them.
Re: Roundstart Suicide as Antagonist/Wizard
Posted: Fri Oct 26, 2018 1:42 am
by SaveVatznick
Antags can do whatever they want, right?
Well, the most antagonistic thing that one of the most powerful antags we have can do is steal the role from other people and piss it away for no reason.
I think it's fine and I don't see why we should make some stupid rule telling people how to enjoy their game experience just because "suicide wizard"is a fad right now. Give it a month and people won't do it anymore.
Re: Roundstart Suicide as Antagonist/Wizard
Posted: Fri Oct 26, 2018 1:48 am
by BeeSting12
SaveVatznick wrote:Antags can do whatever they want, right?
Well, the most antagonistic thing that one of the most powerful antags we have can do is steal the role from other people and piss it away for no reason.
I think it's fine and I don't see why we should make some stupid rule telling people how to enjoy their game experience just because "suicide wizard"is a fad right now. Give it a month and people won't do it anymore.
Re: Roundstart Suicide as Antagonist/Wizard
Posted: Fri Oct 26, 2018 3:30 am
by Cobby
Antags can't do whatever they want and this usually is restricted to OOC offenses like 4th wall breaking, metacomming, being creepy enough to weird people out OOCly, etc.
Suiciding with the intent to screw people OOCly, to me at least, is equivalent to those offenses even though the explicit action is IC.
I don't understand the fad argument, it shouldn't be okay at all. Waiting until the meme dies won't make it any more enjoyable for people if you do it once in a blue moon.
Re: Roundstart Suicide as Antagonist/Wizard
Posted: Fri Oct 26, 2018 4:12 am
by Karp
BeeSting12 wrote:SaveVatznick wrote:Antags can do whatever they want, right?
Well, the most antagonistic thing that one of the most powerful antags we have can do is steal the role from other people and piss it away for no reason.
I think it's fine and I don't see why we should make some stupid rule telling people how to enjoy their game experience just because "suicide wizard"is a fad right now. Give it a month and people won't do it anymore.
Re: Roundstart Suicide as Antagonist/Wizard
Posted: Fri Oct 26, 2018 4:34 am
by SaveVatznick
Cobby wrote:Antags can't do whatever they want and this usually is restricted to OOC offenses like 4th wall breaking, metacomming, being creepy enough to weird people out OOCly, etc.
Suiciding with the intent to screw people OOCly, to me at least, is equivalent to those offenses even though the explicit action is IC.
I don't understand the fad argument, it shouldn't be okay at all. Waiting until the meme dies won't make it any more enjoyable for people if you do it once in a blue moon.
Ok, so maybe it's just people deciding to roleplay being a suicidal wizard that doesn't want to kill anyone. It just seems kinda dumb to have to make a rule about it when people are gonna stop anyways and it's funny for as long as it lasts. Once people get tired of it everyone will stop because it won't be entertaining anymore and it'll die down. If it happens once in a blue moon it'll be funny again, just like a fail rev round when a miner gets on the shuttle. The point of the game is to have fun.
The game corrects itself and I really don't think it'll be helpful to make a rule & bwoink people / antag ban them / turn off their preferences / other dumb shit. It'll just make admins look bad when them staying quiet will let the issue resolve all the same.
Do we need to have another cooked up poll about whether people think Suicide Wiz is bannable?
Re: Roundstart Suicide as Antagonist/Wizard
Posted: Fri Oct 26, 2018 5:37 am
by NoxVS
Cobby wrote:Antags can't do whatever they want and this usually is restricted to OOC offenses like 4th wall breaking, metacomming, being creepy enough to weird people out OOCly, etc.
Suiciding with the intent to screw people OOCly, to me at least, is equivalent to those offenses even though the explicit action is IC.
So would I be incorrect in saying you believe antags who essentially end the round for people and force them to wait for the next one should be bannable? Since that's what the problem is here, suicide wizards force the round to end and is generally unfun. Right?
Re: Roundstart Suicide as Antagonist/Wizard
Posted: Fri Oct 26, 2018 5:54 am
by Grazyn
Why is forcing the round to end at roundstart unfun if you're not an antag, honest question
Re: Roundstart Suicide as Antagonist/Wizard
Posted: Fri Oct 26, 2018 6:27 am
by Malkraz
Being forced to alt-tab and wait while an aspie murderbones the entire station for 40 minutes is worse. Are you losers honestly complaining you had to "wait" 2 minutes for a better gamemode
Re: Roundstart Suicide as Antagonist/Wizard
Posted: Fri Oct 26, 2018 7:05 am
by leibniz
Malkraz wrote:
..
Mode popularity has been polled among the players. The gamemode chances are set to respect the results of that. People who just instantly end rounds they don't like are just shitting on others who prefer a variety of gamemodes.
