ban friendly antags

[imsxz]

Bottom post of the previous page:

literally dont enable antag if you just wanna act like a nonantag, antags are here to antagonize not donate their uplink to the HOS.

[obscolene]

First, they came for the suiciding wizards -- and I did not say anything, because I did not suicide as wizard..

Then, they came for the friendly antags -- and I did not say anything, because I was not friendly as antag..

[imsxz]

Is this a false flag thread to try and side swipe the job ban for wizard round start suicide?

friendly antag = hard to prove/enforce and so what it turns into a themed extended powder keg round?

suicide start wizard = easy to prove and not enjoyable for anyone. 5 minutes of no gameplay.

Job Ban wizard isnt even all that extreme since they are not playing wizard anyway.

It's really not hard to enforce, you lot are just thinking way too hard about it. You mentioned earlier that you "avoided death by ratting out other traitors" or something along those lines -- this isn't applicable because you did something with your antag status that made you wind up on death's row. I used "friendly antag" as a generalization for antags that dont do anything, and attempted to be more specific in recent posts.

I'll try and put it as clearly as I can I guess: If you have no intention of making ANYTHING of your antag role, be it TC trading, murderboning, buying meme antag items, or what have you, why have it enabled? Would you appeal an antag ban if you had zero intention of doing antag things?

[imsxz]

and no i dont give a single fuck about suiciding as wizard, i've never suicided as a wizard and never had plans to.

this is not a thread to get suicide wizard back i dont wanna use my antag rolls to suicide thanks

[NikNakFlak]

I never made a comment on friendly antags before because I was under the impression that solo antags are allowed to do that type of thing if they want but recent events have taught me the general idea of "frowned upon" ways of carrying out your solo antagonist rounds.

[imsxz]

https://yourlogicalfallacyis.com/genetic

i'm discussing people who don't use their antag rolls to any advantage, not comparing it to suicide wizard or saying "well because suicide wizard got banned..."

If you don't have anything to contribute to the thread, I'd prefer you cut it out

[NikNakFlak]

What frowned upon ways are you referring to in the case of solo antags, I haven't really noticed a problem of traitors not antagonizing enough

[Dr_bee]

This would be a problem if friendly antags suddenly stopped being valid, but that is not the case.

IC protections for solo antags means they can do whatever they want, that also means you can do whatever you want to them. Thats always been the case. If you get pissy about a friendly wizard just fucking murder them and make your own fun.

[delaron]

Here are my thoughts.

If an antag is basically playing thier round friendly it turns the round into a soft extended with option to antag if something provokes them. Is that terrible? If so, should extended/secret extended be removed from the rotation?

How would you monitor and enforce this anyway? Round end and antag didnt do anything? Failed? What? I've died mining as antag shaft miner having not unlocked my pda would I be at risk for a boink at round end?

[Cobby]

Antags are suppose to create unique situations in a round, that’s why we allow them quite a bit of free reign from nothing to deleting the crew to deleting half the station with bombs.

If an antag would rather use his ability to spawn items to make a trade outpost rather than slaughter the crew, they’re still doing their job.

You can still kill them and they can still complete their objectives, it’s a risk they invoke on themselves.

Compare to Wizard suicide where you do literally nothing and just double the round lobby and let everyone who enjoys wizard miss out on being/fighting against one.

You’re also enabled to shift the round as an admin as you see fit, that’s the nice thing about being a DM. Use those powers (for good)!

[Deitus]

https://yourlogicalfallacyis.com/genetic

i'm discussing people who don't use their antag rolls to any advantage, not comparing it to suicide wizard or saying "well because suicide wizard got banned..."

If you don't have anything to contribute to the thread, I'd prefer you cut it out

this isnt a thread to contribute to. there should have never been a discussion on this in the first place, as this is a dumbass campaign to repeal one of the defining aspects of /tg/.

once again:

just because other people dont play hyper powergamer like you does NOT mean you get to police them on how they want to use their traitor round.
>j-just listen guys!!
people have responded but apparently this isnt getting through:
antags.
can.
do.
whatever.
they.
want.
period. end of discussion. fuck off. you will not win this.

what part of this arent you understanding? you can tie your tongue up in knots with word games or do all the mental gymnastics you want, but this isn't up for debate. fuck off.

[WarbossLincoln]

Even in the case where an antag does absolutely nothing, like they never open their uplink and just wander around talking to people, it would be a bad idea to restrict them in the rules.

Part of rule 0 allows admins to do what they see fit to enhance a round. If you see someone doing nothing with their antag roll at all and that it's having a negative impact on the round then spice things up. It still requires you to notice it and take action like a ban but you don't have to fuck with a core part of what makes /tg/ what it is, lone antags can do anything they want.

SHALL
NOT
BE
INFRINGED

[imsxz]

snip

treating your antag roll as if you never got it isn't "playing antag however you want", it's not even playing antag.

[Nilons]

snip

treating your antag roll as if you never got it isn't "playing antag however you want", it's not even playing antag.

Then why not make another antag

[NikNakFlak]

>antag isn't antagging enough
>lets ban them instead of simply adding another antag that lets another player have more fun while still not infringing on the first player's fun

[Deitus]

snip

treating your antag roll as if you never got it isn't "playing antag however you want", it's not even playing antag.

how is one person this thick skulled

how are you not getting this

whatever, i've told you why you're retarded and you keep trying to wriggle your way out of it and failing, so im just gonna leave it to all the other people who have been telling you you're retarded to do so in my stead. ill finish as i started:
fuck off. you will not win this.

[WarbossLincoln]

Spawn another traitor with the objective to kill the antag doing nothing. Give that traitor their target's uplink code.

[iksyp]

surprise surprise

[Grazyn]

>want to try cool atmos project
>forget to turn traitor off
>oh well I'll just ignore it and make my project anyw-
>BWOINK BIN BUN BANNU

[Screemonster]

who the fuck is gonna make the call "this guy's antag but doesn't have any attack logs on him, he's not opened his uplink yet either, he's not doing his job"

are you gonna be the one to handle the admin complaint because you hadn't noticed him hiding hellfoam grenades in disposal bins around the station and he hadn't got around to setting them off yet

[PKPenguin321]

>want to try cool atmos project
>forget to turn traitor off
>oh well I'll just ignore it and make my project anyw-
>BWOINK BIN BUN BANNU

>want to try cool atmos project
>forget to turn traitor off
>oh well I'll just ignore it and make my project anyway
>ahelp asking admins to give my antag role to somebody else and carry on
NOT THAT I'M ADVOCATING TO FULLY BAN FRIENDLY ANTAGS, but this is a bad argument

[obscolene]

Those stupid fucking friendly antags are stealing my antag rolls, bro!! These people should be banned for not playing the game the way I want them to. Fucking ass wholes. It's taking away from people like ME who actually antagonize as antag. Everyone would have a LOT more fun if I was able to mass murder everyone and not let them play the game instead of this stupid headass rolling antag and NOT KILLING ANYONE!!!!! Grr..

[oranges]

this whole thread is salt over the ban on wuizard suicide and should be put in the trash

[Nilons]

>want to try cool atmos project
>forget to turn traitor off
>oh well I'll just ignore it and make my project anyw-
>BWOINK BIN BUN BANNU

>want to try cool atmos project
>forget to turn traitor off
>oh well I'll just ignore it and make my project anyway
>ahelp asking admins to give my antag role to somebody else and carry on
NOT THAT I'M ADVOCATING TO FULLY BAN FRIENDLY ANTAGS, but this is a bad argument

ive done this they didnt give it to anyone but said i could offer my body if i didnt wanna play

[Grazyn]

>want to try cool atmos project
>forget to turn traitor off
>oh well I'll just ignore it and make my project anyw-
>BWOINK BIN BUN BANNU

>want to try cool atmos project
>forget to turn traitor off
>oh well I'll just ignore it and make my project anyway
>ahelp asking admins to give my antag role to somebody else and carry on
NOT THAT I'M ADVOCATING TO FULLY BAN FRIENDLY ANTAGS, but this is a bad argument

Things aren't always that clear-cut. What if he wants to stay antag for the aforementioned advantages, like free reign when an interloper starts to mess with his project instead of having to rely on escalation rules? What if he wants to do some antag stuff later eventually when he gets bored of his project? How long can he expect to be left alone doing non-antag things before the bwoinks start pouring down on him?

[Ayy Lemoh]

but what if i want to not have to worry about gaylord mcfuck abusing escalation policy on my ass?

In theory, you could give the guy that doesn't want to be traitor a custom antag role or just make him lose his uplink while making someone else traitor.

[PKPenguin321]

>want to try cool atmos project
>forget to turn traitor off
>oh well I'll just ignore it and make my project anyw-
>BWOINK BIN BUN BANNU

>want to try cool atmos project
>forget to turn traitor off
>oh well I'll just ignore it and make my project anyway
>ahelp asking admins to give my antag role to somebody else and carry on
NOT THAT I'M ADVOCATING TO FULLY BAN FRIENDLY ANTAGS, but this is a bad argument

Things aren't always that clear-cut. What if he wants to stay antag for the aforementioned advantages, like free reign when an interloper starts to mess with his project instead of having to rely on escalation rules? What if he wants to do some antag stuff later eventually when he gets bored of his project? How long can he expect to be left alone doing non-antag things before the bwoinks start pouring down on him?

none of that was stated in your initial argument and if that was explicitly against the rules as it is in your hypothetical then i doubt that this hypothetical person would knowingly want to do these things in the first place

[Cobby]

mfw it's traitor and you have to eyeball 8 different antags to make sure they are either setting up something antagonistic or killing people because its a bannable offense otherwise

[Steelpoint]

I think there is a critical difference between being indifferent as a Traitor to your status and actively helping Security/Crew as a Syndicate agent openly and giving them your gear.

Also, I only think friendly antags are an issue for Team antags (which is a non-issue since its banable) and for solo antags like Wizard.

[CreationPro]

let's ban extended because there's not enough antagonizing going around
every round MUST BE A CLUSTERFUCK OTHERWISE I DON'T LIKE THE WAY YOU PLAY MY GAME!!!!!!!

[PKPenguin321]

let's ban extended

this, but unironically

[Cobby]

I think trader syndicates are quite enjoyable if done infrequently, it would be a real shame if those got taken away.

I also haven't seen overtly friendly traitor (that went well) in a while either.

[Grazyn]

none of that was stated in your initial argument and if that was explicitly against the rules as it is in your hypothetical then i doubt that this hypothetical person would knowingly want to do these things in the first place

Lol what
"Why would you want to do these things if we decided they are against the rules"
The whole point of discussing policy is to have rules that people find fair

What I described is a reasonable situation that happens all the time, admins are talking about making it bannable and all you have to say is "well if it's bannable you are not going to do it, what's the problem?"

Also my question still stands: if antagonizing becomes mandatory, how long can you expect to be left alone doing non-antag things before admins start bwoinking you asking to give up your antag status or get banned?

[Qbmax32]

God imagine murderboning every single round you roll antag then having the gall to get upset and complain when other people who win the antag lottery don’t go on a le epic murder spree and and play the game the way they want because LONE ANTAGONISTS CAN DO WHATEVER THEY WANT

[Grazyn]

-- Administrator private message --
Admin PM from-Admin: Hello, I couldn't help but notice you've spent a considerable amount of time working on that circuit.
Click on the administrator's name to reply.

-- Administrator private message --
Admin PM from-Admin: As I'm sure you know, wasting an antag slot is a bannable offense.
Click on the administrator's name to reply.

-- Administrator private message --
Admin PM from-Admin: I'm going to offer your body to ghosts and give you a note unless you do something antagonistic in the next 10 minutes.
Click on the administrator's name to reply.

-- Administrator private message --
Admin PM from-Admin: Any further violations will result in an antag jobban. You have been warned.
Click on the administrator's name to reply.

-- Administrator private message --
Admin PM from-Admin: Thank you for your cooperation.
Click on the administrator's name to reply.

[WarbossLincoln]

God imagine murderboning every single round you roll antag then having the gall to get upset and complain when other people who win the antag lottery don’t go on a le epic murder spree and and play the game the way they want because LONE ANTAGONISTS CAN DO WHATEVER THEY WANT

/thread, should probably just be locked at this point. Next someone will want to antag ban people who aren't robust enough to kill everyone, then I'll never get antag again.

[delaron]

Ok I am seeing the distinction trying to be made.

The scenario in question is when a traitor at round start goes to security turning themselves in while handing their pda with codes over. So its being posed that it should be frowned upon/ban able?

In my opinion this seems too specific and still generally a headache to enforce. Is this a problem large enough in scale to warrant attention of policy changes? Its not low hanging fruit and doesn't offer a net positive change considering the overhead to enforce.

At most I could see adding something along the lines of "Signing up to play as an antag role you accept it is part of your responsibility to advance the round type. " People regularly being reported for going against the spirit of that could open themselves up to a note or inquiry by admin? Even then it seems to over complicate something that is potentially not an actual problem.

[SaveVatznick]

Someone kill this thread please before people actually mindfuck themselves into policing antags is a good idea.

[BeeSting12]

Someone kill this thread please before people actually mindfuck themselves into policing antags is a good idea.

[Grazyn]

Can admins please stop spamming every single policy thread with "this is dumb lock this"

the one about ur was legitimately dumb but here we have actual admins saying they are in favour of this, meaning that in the absence of a clear policy they will probably ban, note or otherwise harass antags who don't cause "conflict"

the more you spam "close it" the more headmins will feel peer pressured into closing it with the usual vague statement which solves nothing

[imsxz]

God imagine murderboning every single round you roll antag then having the gall to get upset and complain when other people who win the antag lottery don’t go on a le epic murder spree and and play the game the way they want because LONE ANTAGONISTS CAN DO WHATEVER THEY WANT

/thread, should probably just be locked at this point. Next someone will want to antag ban people who aren't robust enough to kill everyone, then I'll never get antag again.

next they'll wanna ban traitors who suicide.

i dont think im supposed to lock my own policy threads but someone can feel free to do that, i'm convinced enough that TG knows what is right for antags, thank you all for discussing this with me.

deitus could probably use a chill pill or two, though.

[oranges]

if you are dumb we are well within our rights to call you dumb, quit acting so fucking dumb.

If you can't persuasively argue your point with the headadmins that's your own problem.

Headadmins close this salt thread.

[PKPenguin321]

God imagine murderboning every single round you roll antag then having the gall to get upset and complain when other people who win the antag lottery don’t go on a le epic murder spree and and play the game the way they want because LONE ANTAGONISTS CAN DO WHATEVER THEY WANT

/thread, should probably just be locked at this point. Next someone will want to antag ban people who aren't robust enough to kill everyone, then I'll never get antag again.

next they'll wanna ban traitors who suicide.

i dont think im supposed to lock my own policy threads but someone can feel free to do that,

you're absolutely allowed to lock threads you yourself opened, no worries.