Can the warden perma people?

[Cheimon]

I thought this one was obvious. Space Law is written to suggest he can:

Only the Captain, HoS, and Warden can authorize a Permanent Sentence.

Only the Captain can authorize an Execution or Forced Cyborgization.

However, after hearing a lot of people say that only the HOS and Captain could perma people, I looked up the policy. That says:

Captain, Acting Captain, Head of Security, or, in their absence, Warden permission is required to permabrig someone. You do not NEED the captain if the HoS is available.

That strongly seems to suggest the Warden can only perma someone if they do not have a HOS or a Captain. The policy appears to be stricter on this than Space Law.

Which is correct? I'd always assumed the official policy would be more lenient than space law, but that's not the case here. And in the case of a security officer being unable to conveniently contact a Warden or HOS or Captain, can they perma dangerous people? Where is the line drawn? At the moment, the policy places more restrictions on permabrigging someone than on lethal force.

Or is absence purely defined as a physical thing, like not being in the same room, or not having a functioning radio, or not communicating on said radio? In which case, can an officer perma someone in the absence of a warden, HOS, acting captain and captain? Or does that require a heightened definition of 'absence'?

[Steelpoint]

Afaik even a lowly Security Officer has the authority to perma brig someone. Space Law is a guideline and not a hard rule.

However I think the Captain/HoS/Warden have far more leeyway in giving out a perma sentance than a Security Officer. So in case's where this a a hinge of doubt or possibility for a non-perma sentence than it just falls down to the opinion of the HoS/Cap/Ward. However the Security Officer needs to be absolute in their decision.

Of course, its always good to get the opinion of the HoS then Warden on a perma sentence.

[cedarbridge]

The warden directs the brig under and through the authority of the HoS (via CoC.) Unless the HoS or Captain says otherwise, he is the law in the brig and thus the perma brig and gulag as well. He must deffer to the HoS or Captain in any case, but its the warden that hands down sentences for crimes and renders final judgement in most cases. At least that's how it should work. A bad warden usually just sits mostly afk at their desk or runs around the station outside of their brig like an over-armed SO. A good one functions as a sort of brig judge processing and sentencing arrivals.

[paprika]

Has a warden literally ever been banned or even ahelped for permabrigging a traitor *simply because he isn't allowed to*

The answer is no

[cedarbridge]

Has a warden literally ever been banned or even ahelped for permabrigging a traitor

The answer is no

I've been ahelped at least twice in the last 3 months as warden. So, yes, this is a thing that happens. Its usually dealt with via admin PM to the player whining about being perma'd, but it is an issue that crops up now and then.

[paprika]

Bad admins, they should definitely know better. If a warden is wrongfully permabrigging someone, it's not an issue with the warden's ability to perma people, it's an issue with the warden himself.

[cedarbridge]

Bad admins, they should definitely know better. If a warden is wrongfully permabrigging someone, it's not an issue with the warden's ability to perma people, it's an issue with the warden himself.

Admins aren't psychics. Its not a question of "to you have the authority to" in those cases. Its more of a "should this be happening with or without authority" issue. You do understand that right?

[paprika]

This thread is not about that you fucking spaz can you even read

[Saegrimr]

Which is correct? I'd always assumed the official policy would be more lenient than space law, but that's not the case here. And in the case of a security officer being unable to conveniently contact a Warden or HOS or Captain, can they perma dangerous people? Where is the line drawn? At the moment, the policy places more restrictions on permabrigging someone than on lethal force.

The warden CAN perma people, its expected he at least run it by the HoS if one is available though. As someone said before, sec officers can perma if none of the three above them are available. Shit happens, especially lowpop when you're likely not gonna get a full staff or heads at all.

Dude comes in loaded up with bombs, ebows, and other shit? Hell yeah throw him in perma, definitely let the HoS or Captain know first. They might have other plans for them.

You're gonna be held to the same standards as those above you for using it, so if greytidey shitnugget gets thrown in there for smashing lights then yeah there's going to be an issue. The reason it seems perma is more stringent than execution is because situations where on-site execution happen are usually a lot more clear-cut. Dude in the hallway gunning people down, loaded up in cult gear with a construct near him, smashing people with an armblade? I doubt anybody's gonna question that.

Has a warden literally ever been banned or even ahelped for permabrigging a traitor

The answer is no

>Paprika's uninformed opinions.

Banned? No. Ahelped? Of course.
Everybody who gets thrown in perma ahelps. I DIN DO NUFFIN AT ALL.

So the chain of PMs begins with the person who first locked them up going down the line eventually leading up to the HoS or Captain if one is available all because the greyshit conveniently forgot to mention some little fact like him shooting the captain or something.

This thread is not about that you fucking spaz can you even read

So why did you even bother bringing it up?

[paprika]

This thread is not about that you fucking spaz can you even read

So why did you even bother bringing it up?

>WHY DID YOU BRING UP WHETHER OR NOT A WARDEN HAS EVER BEEN BANNED UNDER THE PRETENSE OF SIMPLY NOT BEING ALLOWED TO PERMABRIG PEOPLE IN A THREAD LITERALLY ABOUT THAT
And then cedarbridge turned it into a 'what if the warden falsely permabrigged someone' WHICH ISN'T EVEN WHAT THIS THREAD IS ABOUT, IT'S ABOUT WHETHER OR NOT THE WARDEN IS ALLOWED TO
WHICH I SAID 'HAS THE WARDEN EVER EVEN BEEN AHELPED FOR DOING THAT'
AND THE ANSWER IS NO, LITERALLY NEVER IS THE CASE THAT THE WARDEN IS SIMPLY NOT ALLOWED TO PERMABRIG PEOPLE

Holy fuck why are you both in such a rush to prove what complete fucking airheads you are and your inability to fucking read threads

Do I have to start putting my text in BIG FUCKING font or something so you can actually read it instead of hunting for a reason to 'totally call me out'?

[paprika]

This thread is not about that you fucking spaz can you even read

So why did you even bother bringing it up?

>WHY DID YOU BRING UP WHETHER OR NOT A WARDEN HAS EVER BEEN BANNED UNDER THE PRETENSE OF SIMPLY NOT BEING ALLOWED TO PERMABRIG PEOPLE IN A THREAD LITERALLY ABOUT THAT
And then cedarbridge turned it into a 'what if the warden falsely permabrigged someone' WHICH ISN'T EVEN WHAT THIS THREAD IS ABOUT, IT'S ABOUT WHETHER OR NOT THE WARDEN IS ALLOWED TO
WHICH I SAID 'HAS THE WARDEN EVER EVEN BEEN AHELPED FOR DOING THAT'
AND THE ANSWER IS NO, LITERALLY NEVER IS THE CASE THAT THE WARDEN IS SIMPLY NOT ALLOWED TO PERMABRIG PEOPLE, this thread has NO reason to exist.

Holy fuck why are you both in such a rush to prove what complete fucking airheads you are and your inability to fucking read threads

Do I have to start putting my text in BIG FUCKING font or something so you can actually read it instead of hunting for a reason to 'totally call me out'?

I've been ahelped at least twice in the last 3 months as warden.

Him bringing up how he's been ahelped for permabrigging someone (NOT BECAUSE HE ISN'T ALLOWED TO, AS PROVEN BELOW)

Its not a question of "to you have the authority to" in those cases. Its more of a "should this be happening with or without authority" issue.

You two are the biggest fucking idiots I have ever seen, stop trying to use forums if you don't even know how.

[Steelpoint]

Calm down paprika, jesus christ.

[Saegrimr]

Big angry capital letters.

>Has a warden ever been a-helped? In my uninformed opinion i'm going to say never.
>Yes, I have been ahelped
>Yes, i've handled ahelps about them.
>WOW NOT EVEN ON TOPIC, WHAT I ACTUALLY MEANT WAS SOMETHING SLIGHTLY DIFFERENT. CHECK YOUR PRIVILEGE.

Okay Paprika.

[paprika]

>WOW, I MISINTERPRETED WHAT PAPRIKA SAID AND ASSUMED HE WASN'T TALKING ABOUT THE INSTANCE THIS ENTIRE THREAD IS ABOUT
Okay Saegrimr.

>HURR BUT I HAVE BEEN AHELPED FOR SOMETHING COMPLETELY UNRELATED TO THIS THREAD AS WARDEN!! BTFO PAPRIKA!!! OWNED!!!!!! UNINFORMED OPINION!!!!!!!!!!! HEH... SMUG_ANIME.JPG UPLOADED
The autism is palpable

[Malkevin]

It should really be sop that perming people should be annouces other the sec channel, just to let the rest of sec know what's your on.
Far too many time do I as warden/hos go to perma someone to find some random asshats been thrown in there ages ago and no one knows about it

[paprika]

Permabrigging in general needs to be more intuitive rather than 'strip someone and stick him in the cell lol'. The HUDshades reporting this kind of thing would be rad so that the HoS can micromanage when the warden brigs people so it doesn't get done behind his back all the time.

[Steelpoint]

Permabrigging is mostly fine, it's that some Officers simply don't communicate well enough to inform the HoS/Warden about them tossing someone in the perma brig.

I do suppose that adding the "prisioner" designation to someone via the secHud's should alert anyone wearing secHud's to that, so it can be used to help inform all of Security that someone is being brigged.

[Lo6a4evskiy]

I do suppose that adding the "prisioner" designation to someone via the secHud's should alert anyone wearing secHud's to that, so it can be used to help inform all of Security that someone is being brigged.

Frankly these automatic messages are good and all, but do you really want for everything to be done automatically instead of people actually talking? I know I don't.

[paprika]

In a perfect world we wouldn't have to because permabrigging would be a larger event, but it happens at least once or twice per round basically on /tg/ to the point where it's expected.

[lumipharon]

When you brig someone, you should alter their sec record to reflect it, and Notify the warden/hos (or really jst say it over sec radio so everyone knows). Same goes for perma, only it's even more important, since they're more likely to be a dangerous criminal/taking someone out of the round.

[Timbrewolf]

Ideally I think the warden should not WANT to put anyone in cells. Every officer who shows up dragging someone into the brig should stop by him and have to explain or provide evidence of what this person did and why they should be brigged.

If the warden is convinced based on the evidence and/or testimony they get, then yes into the cells they go.

If the warden hears "well I think he's a traitor because I saw him stuffing his pockets with beef jerky" or something that doesn't add up, calmly take the prisoner, escort him to the space between the double doors, remove his cuffs, and let him go.

On the flipside of that, if the sec officer says "Yeah I saw him hacking the shit out of everyone with this" and slaps an esword on the table, then the guy goes straight to perma and the esword goes into the evidence lockup. Blatant stuff like that in practice doesn't require anyone signing off on it. It's kind of the Warden's whole job. If the HoS arrives and decides he wants to be the authority on it, so be it. He is in charge, but if the HoS isn't standing right there I don't there's an immediate need to get him involved.

If there's a doubt, like the officer is really pushing for a perma sentence or just blows by the warden to start stuffing someone into perma without explaining...it's probably a good time to get the HoS on the radio and get this sorted out before it turns into a real dispute.

tl;dr the short answer is yes, the warden should have the authority to perma people. But he's accountable for that and permabrigging people is very nearly the same as taking them out of the round. "Absence of the HoS" in this case doesn't mean the HoS is dead or MIA, but rather that the HoS is not standing right there telling you to do one thing or the other.