/tg/Station 13

Thread title.

Naming policy is so subjective and so arbitrarily enforced that there doesn't really seem to be a need for it at all.

https://tgstation13.org/phpBB/viewtopic.php?f=7&t=20628

In this thread a dude got ordered to change his cat beast's name from DePantherius X and was told that was a ridiculous name.

Is DePantherius X for a cat any more ridiculous than Cup Cake, Crocodillo, Gayden Homolove, Good Goodman, Tyrone Watermelon, Is-A-Lizard, Lamp Lover, Chad Thundercock, Pushes-And-Shoves, or any of the other degenerates we have running around the station?

Started out so that people couldn't name themselves AAAAÀAAAAAÀ but got turned into "I dislike this player and want to fuck with him"

Nilons of nanotrasen

The introduction of Lizardpeople, then other species, naming conventions really screwed with our naming conventions to a ninth degree. The fact that you can have Lizards have utterly nonsense names, essentially one step being below a OOC name, such as 'Valids-the-Salid', 'Slits-his-Wrist' or 'Pushes-and-Shoves' essentially seeded the ideals of near non-exsistant naming conventions to the community, that only became more prevalent as time has advanced.

At this point in our history, so long as you don't use utterly moronic names like 'Adolf Hiter' or 'ShitCuntYourMumXoXo' (Unless your a cyborg), then any name is practically fine.

I personally wish we held a slightly higher standard to naming conventions than near non-existent.

I just wish for consistency, really. I really don’t think ethereal names should’ve been such an important topic since we have moths named lamp lover. Moths have their own name format too, which is too two words, and neither of those words are lamp lover, but still any race but humans can have a one word name, which I’ve seen for every race. All it does for humans is screw over the guy named raised-by-lizards, but anyone else can get away with one word names. With the way shit’s been enforced I could shorten my name to just “lizard” or ligger and it’d be as fine as crocodillo or swanni. If I made an ethereal I should logically be able to him “envoy” or “jones” but I’m not going to try that. Why can fly people do one word names when they’re mutated humans? Can A felinid with no ears or tail do a one word name? If its ok for someone to be named ostrava of nanotrasen, what’s their name when not of nanotrasen? Ostrava? If you try to name yourself ostrava, the name is rejected. Can I name a lizard a human name, like frank thompson? Can I be is-a-moth? What exactly is acceptable for lizards based on their random names? Frank-Thompson? Ayy-Lmao? It’s generally known that clowns mimes and wizards can do whatever, as do nukies and agent ids. How does that hold up when a wizard comes in named something like “steelpoint” or “imsxz”? Who are these rules even being enforced for? Are admins banning freddy vonwhatever because someone complained? Simply because the rules say no? Were people significantly angered by such a name? Far worse things have ruined muh immersions than freddy. If fred is banned, ostrava of nanotrasen should be too. I don’t give a FUCK if the name is a meme. Naming policy is even vaguer than “don’t be a dick” with how it’s enforced.

It is kind of odd how there's been appearance bans for names that are arguably dumb and too attention-grabbing but then you still have something like some of those mentioned in the OP that are openly OOC/jokes still running around uncontested

WarbossLincoln wrote:
Is DePantherius X for a cat any more ridiculous than Cup Cake, Crocodillo, Gayden Homolove, Good Goodman, Tyrone Watermelon, Is-A-Lizard, Lamp Lover, Chad Thundercock, Pushes-And-Shoves, or any of the other degenerates we have running around the station?

Tyrone Watermelon had to be changed, although this was only after months of playing with the name. Only one admin seemed to have a problem with it after dozens of ahelp conversations. I personally think banning the name is pretty damn disrespectful to everyone who has had the forename Tyrone or the surname Watermelon.

the naming policy should be updated to exclude any names made by nilons

Still not fucking funny

Steelpoint wrote:The introduction of Lizardpeople, then other species, naming conventions really screwed with our naming conventions to a ninth degree. The fact that you can have Lizards have utterly nonsense names, essentially one step being below a OOC name, such as 'Valids-the-Salid', 'Slits-his-Wrist' or 'Pushes-and-Shoves' essentially seeded the ideals of near non-exsistant naming conventions to the community, that only became more prevalent as time has advanced.

At this point in our history, so long as you don't use utterly moronic names like 'Adolf Hiter' or 'ShitCuntYourMumXoXo' (Unless your a cyborg), then any name is practically fine.

I personally wish we held a slightly higher standard to naming conventions than near non-existent.

This is the sad truth. Lizards killed our already weak naming standards. These days you have to try really hard to actually come up with a name that's not allowed.

We have gondolas in game,

so no.

I'm not going to tell a "John Smith Jr." that his name breaks immersion while he's standing next to "Makes-the-Memes"

Lazengann wrote:I'm not going to tell a "John Smith Jr." that his name breaks immersion while he's standing next to "Makes-the-Memes"

Yeah but when a single admin does it doesnt matter if you think its ok because theyre now appearance banned

naming policy thread #500

admins will always make people change excessively ooc names. any attempt at trying to describe what constitutes an excessively ooc name will be lawyered to hell and back, as it has been. ultimately though it doesn't matter cause the admin can also just tell you to stop lawyering and the headmins will probably defend their POV.

IMO the issue is that the very nature of the rule is subjective, and any naming policy that allows non IRL human names would have to be. When you have an admin team with different ideas of how much RP they want to enforce you get wild fluctuations in what's Kosher. Tyrone Watermelon was fine for months until the 1 admin who didn't like enough to act on it decided to shit can the name and that's that.

Something like:
No offensive or gibberish names - no Dickbutt cocklover, no asdpofkjasdfl;asdf, no AAAAAAAAAAA
No OOC names unless you're a lizard - Just because it's so entrenched in the server and we have so many static name lizard players that have been doing this for a long time. Unless we want to change that. So Pushes-And-Shoves is ok but a human named IC in OCC isn't.

We shouldn't have a naming policy that says "Admins may get involved if your name is dumb" when one admin having a bad day can strip someone of a static name they've used for a long time on a whim.

subject217 wrote:naming policy thread #500

admins will always make people change excessively ooc names. any attempt at trying to describe what constitutes an excessively ooc name will be lawyered to hell and back, as it has been. ultimately though it doesn't matter cause the admin can also just tell you to stop lawyering and the headmins will probably defend their POV.

Which is why it's bad. When random admin X decides he doesn't like Player Y, or his reasonable for /tg/ lowRP level name he can tell the player to change a perfectly reasonable name and the rest of the admin team won't care and will back him up, telling the player to go get fucked. Not talking about cases when an admin tells someone not to name themselves NIGR LVR

subject217 wrote:naming policy thread #500

admins will always make people change excessively ooc names. any attempt at trying to describe what constitutes an excessively ooc name will be lawyered to hell and back, as it has been. ultimately though it doesn't matter cause the admin can also just tell you to stop lawyering and the headmins will probably defend their POV.

Except for when they don't because its a lizard or their friend, or when they decide a perfectly normal name is "excessively ooc" because the player opened a complaint against them or appealed their ban. The viewpoint of "policy doesnt matter because im an admin and youll do what i fucking tell you" is absolutely horrendous for an admin trainer

Ultimately, there are lots of players who never struggle with naming policy whatsoever. If you are intentionally choosing a somewhat OOC gimmick/pun name you should expect an admin to crack down on you at some point. It's really not hard to make an acceptable name.

@Nilons
Or alternatively a really awful name like "Ostrava of Nanotrasen", literally just a reference to a video game, is allowed to stay because "Ohhh, he's always played with it!"

subject217 wrote:Ultimately, there are lots of players who never struggle with naming policy whatsoever. If you are intentionally choosing a somewhat OOC gimmick/pun name you should expect an admin to crack down on you at some point. It's really not hard to make an acceptable name.

@Nilons
Or alternatively a really awful name like "Ostrava of Nanotrasen", literally just a reference to a video game, is allowed to stay because "Ohhh, he's always played with it!"

To this day no one has been able to actually say why it's awful beyond saying it just is. And I was allowed to keep it in the first place because a headmin ruled that I could, not that Ive always played with it. It has more than the bare minimum effort made to make it IC and the only semblance of ooc in it is that it is a reference, which are littered throughout the code and the game(as well as many, many other players names that are fine).

A lot of players never struggle with naming policy just like a lot of players never post on the forums, they hit random name and go with it or when theyre told to change their name they just do it because the attitude admins have is "the headmins will probably side with me so theres no point arguing" and no one hears about it no matter the circumstances. It's not hard to name yourself John Smith but it's significantly less fun. Also somewhat OOC gimmick/pun names are fully allowed in the form of lizards whereas having X as your lastname is considered not ok for some reason

Nilons wrote:

Lazengann wrote:I'm not going to tell a "John Smith Jr." that his name breaks immersion while he's standing next to "Makes-the-Memes"

Yeah but when a single admin does it doesnt matter if you think its ok because theyre now appearance banned

I can't find one appearance ban I've disagreed with

off topic: your name is bad because "of Nanotrasen" is not a name it's a title which violates our naming policy which I don't enforce anyway

Let us enforce naming policy even more harshly. If anyone mistakes my name and calls me Pimple, which isn't a realistic last name to have.

I should be able to shoot them down like they just invaded the armory as a grey tide.

It's not Pimple.

I agree that the naming policy should use more work, since it can be seen as an admin handpicking players to do an appearance ban, specially when other dumb names exist.

For example, i thought names like Cup Cake were allowed, but was told otherwise in my note appeal. I can get why fellow players may be confused by this, specially when this people are still running around with ''funny names'' when they weren't allowed to keep theirs.

A simple statement of the types of names that are allowed per race would be useful, taking for example ethereals who follow this naming policy:

Please note that their naming style is a celestial body (i.e. Andromeda, Kepler, etc) as a first name and two random letters as the second part. An example ethereal name would be Vega QA.

edit: I was a dumbie and quoted wrong the naming policy for ethereals

I feel like the naming policy is one of the few things keeping /tg/ from becoming a norp server, though it’s fair for people to want consistency. Clarifying the policy shouldn’t make things worse since we already have rules on the books that prohibit rules lawyering anyway.

naming policy and OOC in IC are basically all we have. we have to draw the line somewhere.

Realistically it's only a problem because there are some admins who have a stick up their butt about names.

This means enforcement tends to be shoddy and then appears unfair because most of us dont' give a toss what you call yourself.

That's like telling nervere to not remove overthrow from rotation because "overthrow and traitor are the only traitor weapon modes we have. We have to draw the line somewhere" and also telling him not to make changes to overthrow in any way.

who are you responding to?


My solution would be to simply change the punishment for having an bad name to a name change only, that way it doesn't matter if enforcement is arbitrary as there are no long term repercussions and frankly people have better things to be wasting time on.

I like sticks ok?! Sheesh Oranges.

I should feel like you're trying to make a character, not a joke. Or if you make a joke make it really good and just do it for a round or two and don't be surprised to get told "hey, stop it".

Response was to subject
Oranges, do you mean a single round name change?
Nervere, nobody is saying meme names should be the norm. However, some people get away with "meme" names just fine, and others have had close to normal names and lasted months with it tolerated, only for a random ban. Consistency is an issue regardless.

oranges wrote:My solution would be to simply change the punishment for having an bad name to a name change only, that way it doesn't matter if enforcement is arbitrary as there are no long term repercussions and frankly people have better things to be wasting time on.

Bonus points if an admin teleports you to Centcom for a meeting with HR before doing so
"I'm sorry, 'Kevin the Cuckold', but there was a problem with your identification paperwork that was only recently brought to our attention..."

confused rock wrote:Response was to subject
Oranges, do you mean a single round name change?
Nervere, nobody is saying meme names should be the norm. However, some people get away with "meme" names just fine, and others have had close to normal names and lasted months with it tolerated, only for a random ban. Consistency is an issue regardless.

Yeah, it's what I do usually anyway, just force change people with bad names.

They usually get the message and it's less likely to result in a complaint or ahelp argument about policy.

It's tough to enforce the policy when we explicitly allow things like

verbs-the-noun
moth lamp puns
and whatever the fuck catgirls are doing these days.

I can't find the mental duplicity to then turn around and yell at a player who names themself epic meme as a human.

Alright I say we enforce proper names for all. First Name, Last Name. Can be of any culture but must not be OOC.

be done with this damn grey area once and for all because clearly this community can't handle it.

Rustledjimm wrote:Alright I say we enforce proper names for all. First Name, Last Name. Can be of any culture but must not be OOC.

be done with this damn grey area once and for all because clearly this community can't handle it.

this and disallow food names

Rustledjimm wrote:Alright I say we enforce proper names for all. First Name, Last Name. Can be of any culture but must not be OOC.

be done with this damn grey area once and for all because clearly this community can't handle it.

The community or the admins?

For all? Does that include non-human races?

This is an impetuous and reductive solution to a problem with much better answers (delineated by others in this thread). Warboss and Nilons have made perfectly cogent arguments that have yet to be addressed.

Honestly the problem stems from people who wanna push the rule as far as they can until they're named oogityboogityvalid saladinehisemperor which results in stricter name policy enforcement overall from the admin team which ends up being fucking dumb and creating another naming policy thread

It should be administrated based on intent. If all you're doing is trying to see what stupid fucking name you can slip past admins or bait them into banning you so you can start forum shit you deserve the appearance ban. What isn't actually a problem is people who use slightly odd names that aren't ooc and don't negatively affect anyone

(See aieeeet maphoo, latest lazzengan appeal, tonto I think but it might be someone else)

We just need to document all the naming policy and put it in the rules so it's clear to admins and players what's okay and not okay. This is one of those things where it should be clear cut more like a contract than a loosely written document. Here's my idea for a rewrite:

(Not in the rewrite, but to be understood that if this is added to the rules, it's in effect: All characters that have been played before [date this goes into effect] will have their names "grandfathered" in as long as there is proof the player has played that character for a while in good faith.)

Naming Policy
Naming policy is enforced at admin discretion. If your name is dumb but happens to not fall under any of these guidelines, then it will still be banned. If there is an issue with this, appeal to a head admin.
Humans and Felinids:

• Humans should have their name in the Firstname Lastname format. ex. John Doe, Jane Doe.
• Names identical to a famous person or fictional character are not allowed, nor are names similar to them. The following would not be allowed: Harry Potter, Donald Trump.
• Honorifics and titles are not allowed. (Dr., Mr., Mrs., Esq, Doctor, Captain, etc.)
• Nicknames in the middle of the name are allowed. ex. Janice "Foxy" Lean.
• Names should be something plausibly found in a wacky space setting, but anything excessively dumb can be vetoed by admins. ex. Dumb Ass, Alien Hunter are both not allowed.

Lizards:

• Names can be in the randomly given name format or in the "Verbs-The-Noun" format. For example, Cleans-The-Floors or [insert random name here] are both acceptable.

Plasmamen:

• Names should be in the format: [Element on the periodic table] [Roman numeral]. For example, Uranium IX or Iron VI.

Ethereals:

• Names should be in the format: [Celestial body, excluding planets] [Random 1-2 letters]. For example, Andromeda PL or Kepler C.
• There are some celestial bodies with long names. Don't use excessively long names, and try to keep it realistic.

Clowns, Mimes, and Wizards:

• Clowns, mimes, and wizards are allowed to have "memey" names not following any of the above formats.
• While keeping the above in mind, they should not be spammy or excessively long names. ex. AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA is not allowed.

Moths and Flies

• I have no idea what either of their naming policies are, and they seem to be mostly memes to me.

Gimmick Names:

• Sometimes, you might have an idea for a gimmicky character that doesn't follow the above naming policy. If this is a one round gimmick, ask the online admins.
• Players who want to make characters with these sorts of names that are intended to be permanent/long term characters should talk to the headmins, or ask an admin to talk with the headmin for them.
• Examples of the above are: Raised-By-Lizards (as a human name), Ostrava of Nanotrasen, etc.

Nilons wrote:Honestly the problem stems from people who wanna push the rule as far as they can until they're named oogityboogityvalid saladinehisemperor which results in stricter name policy enforcement overall from the admin team which ends up being fucking dumb and creating another naming policy thread

It should be administrated based on intent. If all you're doing is trying to see what stupid fucking name you can slip past admins or bait them into banning you so you can start forum shit you deserve the appearance ban. What isn't actually a problem is people who use slightly odd names that aren't ooc and don't negatively affect anyone

(See aieeeet maphoo, latest lazzengan appeal, tonto I think but it might be someone else)

t. Ostrava of Nanotrasen

How did you manage to take the previous rules and make them even more cancerous? I'm in awe.

have a naming committee of Miriah, Alphonzo, and Nabski that admins must submit potential policy violating names to, requiring a 2/3 vote to pass.

edit: obviously OOC names like "clownhonker420" wouldn't need to go through this process, but if an admin wanted to ban an ethereal named "Uranus XD" it would have to go through the committee.

@bee plasmemes can have compounds too afaik

oranges wrote:who are you responding to?


My solution would be to simply change the punishment for having an bad name to a name change only, that way it doesn't matter if enforcement is arbitrary as there are no long term repercussions and frankly people have better things to be wasting time on.

appearance bans should really only be for people who will call themselves something like... FAGGIT PUNCHER and then when they're told to change it next round they come back as AAAAAAAAAAADOLF POOPLER or some shit. And a person like that is probably going to get themselves server banned before too long anyway.

Posting in epic naming policy thread #773738282848592083

imsxz wrote:have a naming committee of Miriah, Alphonzo, and Nabski that admins must submit potential policy violating names to, requiring a 2/3 vote to pass.

edit: obviously OOC names like "clownhonker420" wouldn't need to go through this process, but if an admin wanted to ban an ethereal named "Uranus XD" it would have to go through the committee.

everytime I see a Cancer XD or Uranus XD I regret my life.

Nanotrasen requires all employes to take on a human name when they sign on as staff because they're a racist company.

Nanotrasen isn’t racist, though. They’d put aliens in more jobs if they could get away with it(cuz they’re cheap)

they're cheap cause they pay them less.

It's still discrimination even if they hire more of them you realise that.

Or do you think slavery didn't have any racist tones because people preferred to use them cause they were cheaper than hiring people?

Rustledjimm wrote:Nanotrasen requires all employes to take on a human name when they sign on as staff because they're a racist company.

You mean specist.

https://www.names.org/n/ostrava/about

just sayin...


Whats the issue with Bee's update? Seems reasonable and easy enough to understand/comply with if that is your intent.

My bad, I was wrong, they don't actually pay lizards less. Nanotrasen solely wants as many lizards as possible because they need more workers, and they're payed equally and were forced to restrict lizards being in high positions.

delaron wrote: Whats the issue with Bee's update? Seems reasonable and easy enough to understand/comply with if that is your intent.

I talked to oranges in discord and he said that there were double standards for human races and nonhuman races: the humans have more restrictions, and that it's hard to tell a human that Epic Meme is a shit name when lizards are running around with "Cleans-The-Floors" etc. Personally, I think that's dumb because that format has been accepted for a long time here, so in-universe it makes sense to have "Cleans-The-Floors", but Epic Meme makes no sense.

I also don't even understand or know the naming policy for flies and moths, I'd like to see one put in place but I don't know it. Other than that, I based the rewrite entirely off of the rules page and policy threads on naming conventions for each category and how it's actually enforced.

delaron wrote:https://www.names.org/n/ostrava/about

just sayin...

thanks for the high IQ post as always, Delaron of /tg/station13