change carps + emags

[Tlaltecuhtli]

a few rounds ago there was a change magicarp a ling ate the xenobiologist and made another magicarp which got change bolted into a syndi engiborg and started doing antag stuff for the ling xenobiologist, i was turned into an assault syndiborg and emagged him, it didnt care about the emag and kept being "loyal " to the ling xenobiologist, even if i told him to stop and i was his master, do sentient potion loyality overwrite being emagged?

[PKPenguin321]

Laws override things like antagonist objectives (hence why you can borg traitors), so I'd say that laws would take priority over sentience potion loyalty.

[Anonmare]

Silicon laws override sentience potion and antagonist loyalties. The only thing higher are the server rules themselves

[Shezza]

Silicon laws override sentience potion and antagonist loyalties. The only thing higher are the server rules themselves

Actually there is a single thing that overrides everything and thats valentine's day event loyalties

[WarbossLincoln]

Silicon laws are a set of forced behavior modifications. They don't override what you are but they control what you can and cannot do. A traitor who gets borged still has their objectives in their memory unless that's changed. It's just usually impossible for them to complete their objectives as an asimov borg(they're dead, can't harm humans, has to obey humans, can't steal anything, there's a button that can blow you up if you fuck about). As a borged traitor I've killed non-human assassinate objectives before because I could do it while still following my laws.

[PKPenguin321]

Silicon laws are a set of forced behavior modifications. They don't override what you are but they control what you can and cannot do. A traitor who gets borged still has their objectives in their memory unless that's changed. It's just usually impossible for them to complete their objectives as an asimov borg(they're dead, can't harm humans, has to obey humans, can't steal anything, there's a button that can blow you up if you fuck about). As a borged traitor I've killed non-human assassinate objectives before because I could do it while still following my laws.

Can confirm, once stole the nuke disk as service borg traitor using my tray

[WarbossLincoln]

That's beautiful.

I would hesitate to say that a borged traitor still has full antag status though. I think since your objectives still exist you can do antagonistic things if they very clearly advance those objectives only, and follow your laws. If you were allowed to go ham and murder every single non-human on the station then it would just make it so that no one would ever borg traitors again. Rule of 'don't be a dick' and 'act in good faith' IMO. They had the generosity to borg you over just gibbing you with the gulag shuttle so don't be a complete dick.

On the other hand, if you take a murderous hostile agent and turn them into a cyborg that's slaved to your every command it's stupid to not give it orders to be nice. It's obviously going to take any advantage to cause trouble around the confines of its laws.

[Tlaltecuhtli]

saying that traitor borgs can still do like assasination objectives of not humans and be antaggy seems a big claim are there any admins on this

[Anonmare]

My interpretations is this:
You have to expressly ask permission from an AI you're slaved to. BUT, only if you are slaved to one. If you aren't slaved then you're free to kill a non-human target.

it gives a nice little disadvantage to making de-synced cyborgs; no master AI to regulate their behaviour.

[WarbossLincoln]

saying that traitor borgs can still do like assasination objectives of not humans and be antaggy seems a big claim are there any admins on this

This is anecdotal to me of course, but I try to complete my traitor objectives every single time I'm borged. Always within my laws so usually I can't get most of them. Never had an issue with an admin over it. One time I even attempted to pull of a hijack objective as a borged traitor without harming any humans. You can probably guess how well that went. "Hey ligger borg, stop walling off escape and trying to prevent us from getting on the shuttle" *red text*

My interpretations is this:
You have to expressly ask permission from an AI you're slaved to. BUT, only if you are slaved to one. If you aren't slaved then you're free to kill a non-human target.

There's nothing in your laws that would suggest this is necessary. You have to obey your AI and human orders, so if either tells you "don't hurt anyone" then you can't. Borgs have nothing that says they need permission from their AIs to do anything.

Asimov law 1 and 3 prohibits behaviors. Asimov 2 forces a behavior. Aside from any of those you can do anything you want that doesn't break server rules. As long as your traitor objectives are still in your memories they're fair game within the bounds of your laws.

Thinking it over I would be 100% ok with a borged traitor going around purging all non humans on the station when it's so easy to stop them. AI orders them not to. The Robo who made them tells them not to harm any crewmen. Any human sends an order over radio when it starts fucking around. If it tries anything funny order the AI to blow it up.

[zxaber]

Pretty much agree with Warboss. Allowing tator-turned-borgs to act out against the crew to the best of their abilities isn't that hard to stop, and even more, the fact that such borgs are allowed to freely murder actually gives some weight behind Asimov. I like the interaction that Asimov causes, especially how it causes security and the silicons to have different and often conflicting "goals". But realistically, we all know the server rules, and we all know that purged non-antag borgs are more or less bound by a "be good" rule set. Having any borg'd traitors able to act out, possibly violently, if you purge the borgs gives a good IC reason for the laws to exist at all.

If nothing else, you can always lock a problematic borg, disconnect it from the AI, and give it even more limiting laws. I have done this when one borg in particular was causing issues but the AI didn't deserve the extra law baggage.

Also, a headmin on the discord server told me their opinion is purged borgs that were antags in the same life can openly kill. I totally don't expect a discord message to be the concrete ruling on its own, but that is the word I got.

[Cobby]

saying that traitor borgs can still do like assasination objectives of not humans and be antaggy seems a big claim are there any admins on this

You can complete your objectives as a traitor borged if it is permitted by your laws.

I would even be okay if you culled nonhumans (assuming no law 2) but I can imagine most people wouldn’t.

[WarbossLincoln]

Another aspect of a borged tator getting to keep trying for their objectives within their laws is that they're still 100% valid at any point. If you act like a dick in any way and they blow you up and space the mmi you can't complain about it.

[Tlaltecuhtli]

what if the borged traitor goes on a stealthy murderbone within its laws?

[WarbossLincoln]

More power to them if they manage to do it without getting caught. People are super suspicious about borgs and will watch everything you say and do. The first time the borg gets seen doing anything remotely suspicious people will start shrieking 'AI ROG'. The AI has camera vision to the borg and can see the location of the borg in their status menu. It will see what it's doing and blow it up if it's killing non humans.

Edit: Borgs don't have stuns so there's not really any way for them to stealthily murder. They would have to cut comms, also probably getting caught by the AI. Then they have to beat a lizard in a hidden location to death, without the lizard running somewhere with another player to see it happen. If they shock a door someone will notice and scream about it.

Borgs are not nearly as powerful as the 'nerf silicons 4evar' crowd who still thinks they're the devil from one time they got dunked by a sec borg.

[Cobby]

You can always just preemptively law 2 it