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Server Crash responsibility, antag token giveaway and more

PostPosted: Tue Mar 19, 2019 9:46 pm
by Timonk
what's the point of this?

So Basically, Muh antag token

But actually, I made this post with the intention to change/edit the correlation "server crash = antag token?"


Well, my opinion is that there should always be consequences to server crashes (if admins are online) either in antag. Tokens for those that were antag in the aborted round (if they weren't dead beyond revival at the point of the crash) or the responsible player eating a ban.

So, there are 3 Sides that can be responsible, actually one is no one's fault but more on that.

1. The fault of admin fuckery

As the current "policy" says, admins can give out antag tokens if asked and that's fine.

2. Playerside fault

If the player did it with bad faith they should really eat a ban.
If the players did it on accident, give them a warning to not do it again.

3." but it's nobody's fault, the server crashed in itself"

Ahh, how do we all love Grey spots! It's either go dig in the logs for a cause, or, antag tokens! Would you like to lose your gosh darn antag roll to a dumb server crash? I think not. But again, "antag rolls are not sacred"

Also, giving antag tokens is generally only done if the player asks an admin. Thanks for listening to my TED talk.

Re: Server Crash responsibility, antag token giveaway and more

PostPosted: Tue Mar 19, 2019 10:26 pm
by Arianya
Timonk wrote:1. The fault of admin fuckery

As the current "policy" says, admins can give out antag tokens if asked and that's fine.


OK
2. Playerside fault

If the player did it with bad faith they should really eat a ban.
If the players did it on accident, give them a warning to not do it again.


This is basically already the policy
3." but it's nobody's fault, the server crashed in itself"

Ahh, how do we all love Grey spots! It's either go dig in the logs for a cause, or, fucking antag tokens! Why the fuck should I lose my antag round if. Nobody is responsible for it?

Also, giving antag tokens is generally only done if the player asks an admin. Thanks for listening to my TED talk.


Antag tokens are a hacky, unofficial system. The use of an antag token messes with a round to a greater or lesser extent. If antag tokens start being handed out for every round that crashes, regardless of the time period when it happened, you'll have 6-9 people per crash round with antag tokens who throw off a round when they use their token.

Ultimately shit will happen. The server will crash, a random event will fuck you over by pure RNG, your internet connection will choke at a crucial moment, etc. It's better to chillax and move on then to hang on to your "ruined" antagonist round.

Ultimately antag tokens for admin fuckups are a goodwill attempt to apologise for an admin's specific misdemeanour, not a recognition of a god given right to an antag round.

Re: Server Crash responsibility, antag token giveaway and more

PostPosted: Wed Mar 20, 2019 4:07 am
by subject217
antag rounds are not sacred

in accordance with our usual policy for how admins act if an admin dicks over your special one round privilege through explicit stupidity on their part you can get a token for it

otherwise it's literally like anything else, you don't get an antag token if a player kills you either

Re: Server Crash responsibility, antag token giveaway and more

PostPosted: Wed Mar 20, 2019 5:27 am
by Timonk
otherwise it's literally like anything else, you don't get an antag token if a player kills you either


I didn't say that. If you die its your own fault. If the server crashes because of something out of your reach its unfair. I understand that antag rounds aren't sacred, but 8magine you rolling antag just for the server to crash for some reason

Also if the server crashes several times In a row you don't have to give out tokens every round. This "format" isnt a guideline

Re: Server Crash responsibility, antag token giveaway and more

PostPosted: Wed Mar 20, 2019 5:53 am
by Dax Dupont
We should do away with antag tokens entirely if players are gonna be this entitled.

Re: Server Crash responsibility, antag token giveaway and more

PostPosted: Wed Mar 20, 2019 6:19 am
by subject217
Timonk wrote:If you die its your own fault. If the server crashes because of something out of your reach its unfair.

this isn't really true at all, there are a ton of circumstances in ss13 where you'll die and there will have been nothing that you could have done to prevent it. which is exactly the same as the server crashing.

antag tokens are admins apologizing for their mistakes. the server doesn't apologize, it's a machine with some software running on it.

Re: Server Crash responsibility, antag token giveaway and more

PostPosted: Wed Mar 20, 2019 8:21 am
by TehSteveo
This is the ancient and forgotten antagonist token policy I wrote up and enacted during my headmin time, that I'm not sure is followed or what.

Antagonist tokens are simply a note an admin gives a player which allows them to trade in for antagonist. These are given in cases where an admin may ruin an round beyond the point of any redemption. In some cases these are given as rewards for specific events like the wiki drive or feature freeze with approval from headmins for them to be given.

These tokens may be given away by admins should they mess up a standard round; as in a round that didn't have any specific admin event running and was going on its natural course before a mistake was committed. What do I mean by messing up? Well, things like crashing the server or spawning things in that ended up making the round unplayable from lag.

Tokens are not to be given when something outside an admin's control happens; such as the server just locking up and crashing without an admin doing anything, team antagonist killing each other by accident or even incidentally, and the player losing connection and dying. They WILL NOT be given just because you feel like giving one out for something or the other.

These tokens are not to be given out lightly; somethings should be taken into consideration such as the above mentioned reasons, round length, and was the round about over if a token should be given. If the round was practically going to be over with the shuttle on it's way then it wouldn't really warrant a token be handed out when the antagonist generally made good use of the previous round at that point. Alternatives should be considered as well before handing out tokens, such as recreating the previous round. If you messed up a round up that hardly is underway; is acknowledge your error, apologize to everyone, and try to recreate the previous round. As in set the mode to secret and make the affected antagonist from the previous round the same antagonist type or less. Example, you crashed the server by accident and it was traitor. You apologize for the error and then remake the previous round's traitors as traitors for the new round. The issue generally gets resolved without much drama at that point that is fair to everyone.

If a token has to be given; do not give them being vague and open. You need to specify what antagonist type was affected and what they are allowed to trade for as to prevent a larger number of people being able to "trade up" for something rarer/stronger. Example: If you messed up a traitor round, you need to specify that they are allowed to trade for traitor or something that is lesser like revenant. Exercise similar judgement and restraint that is used with telecrystal trades. Additionally, when a TC trade occurs you should try to put them in rounds where it doesn't end up causing more confusion than is needed. Using the previous example of the traitor round; when you let someone claim the token you shouldn't put them in the middle of a cult round as a traitor.

In all honesty, the best solution to this is try not to fuck shit up as we don't want to make a habit of handing tokens out. Repeatedly interfering with rounds can result in punishment if a trend is seen doing such and any notes regarding tokens may be examined. Additionally, if you are unsure of a situation where you believe they are warranted; you can consult with others in adminbus and specifically try to consult with a headmin.


I intended to make a copy of this with less admin jargon to explain it to players a wiki page, but didn't get around to it before headmin election and not being re-elected.

Re: Server Crash responsibility, antag token giveaway and more

PostPosted: Wed Mar 20, 2019 1:41 pm
by WarbossLincoln
subject217 wrote:there are a ton of circumstances in ss13 where you'll die and there will have been nothing that you could have done to prevent it.


Isn't that like 75% of the game? You dying due to something you weren't even remotely involved with.

Re: Server Crash responsibility, antag token giveaway and more

PostPosted: Wed Mar 20, 2019 1:54 pm
by Stickymayhem
You did not earn antag, you are not entitled to a good regular round, nor a good antag round. You are entitled to nothing. The game is a shithole of chaos.

Re: Server Crash responsibility, antag token giveaway and more

PostPosted: Wed Mar 20, 2019 2:35 pm
by 4dplanner
Antag token for when I due to meteors please

Re: Server Crash responsibility, antag token giveaway and more

PostPosted: Wed Mar 20, 2019 3:25 pm
by leibniz

Re: Server Crash responsibility, antag token giveaway and more

PostPosted: Wed Mar 20, 2019 8:30 pm
by Timonk
Dax Dupont wrote:if players are gonna be this entitled.

Oof ouch my bones
Which passage of the text i wrote sounds entitled to you? I may Change it to sound less entitled because I don't want to sound entitled at all

Re: Server Crash responsibility, antag token giveaway and more

PostPosted: Wed Mar 20, 2019 8:40 pm
by lmwevil
Stickymayhem wrote:You did not earn antag, you are not entitled to a good regular round, nor a good antag round. You are entitled to nothing. The game is a shithole of chaos.



is based and bugpilled

Re: Server Crash responsibility, antag token giveaway and more

PostPosted: Thu Mar 21, 2019 1:30 am
by Gigapuddi420
Timonk wrote:Which passage of the text i wrote sounds entitled to you? I may Change it to sound less entitled because I don't want to sound entitled at all

Why the fuck should I lose my antag round if. Nobody is responsible for it?


I got you fam. It has been explained plenty already but tokens are just a way for a admin who made a big fuck up to try and make up for it. You aren't entitled to have antagonist replaced if unfortunate server stability strikes.

Re: Server Crash responsibility, antag token giveaway and more

PostPosted: Thu Mar 21, 2019 3:36 am
by cedarbridge
Threads like this are why we need to stop emphasizing antag status as some sort of reward.

Re: Server Crash responsibility, antag token giveaway and more

PostPosted: Thu Mar 21, 2019 3:37 am
by oranges
10)Losing is part of the game.
Your character will frequently die, sometimes without even a possibility of avoiding it. Events will often be out of your control. No matter how good or prepared you are, sometimes you just lose.

Re: Server Crash responsibility, antag token giveaway and more

PostPosted: Thu Mar 21, 2019 2:00 pm
by Timonk
oranges wrote:10)Losing is part of the game.
Your character will frequently die, sometimes without even a possibility of avoiding it. Events will often be out of your control. No matter how good or prepared you are, sometimes you just lose.


Tokens for those that were antag in the aborted round (if they weren't dead beyond revival at the point of the crash)


Oranges not even reading my thread smh smh

Re: Server Crash responsibility, antag token giveaway and more

PostPosted: Thu Mar 21, 2019 2:07 pm
by Timonk
Gigapuddi420 wrote:
Timonk wrote:Which passage of the text i wrote sounds entitled to you? I may Change it to sound less entitled because I don't want to sound entitled at all

Why the fuck should I lose my antag round if. Nobody is responsible for it?


I got you fam. It has been explained plenty already but tokens are just a way for a admin who made a big fuck up to try and make up for it. You aren't entitled to have antagonist replaced if unfortunate server stability strikes.


There, fixed it. Now it doesn't sound as entitled

Re: Server Crash responsibility, antag token giveaway and more

PostPosted: Fri Mar 22, 2019 6:29 am
by cedarbridge
What if we just removed antag roles instead

Re: Server Crash responsibility, antag token giveaway and more

PostPosted: Sat Mar 23, 2019 10:20 pm
by Timonk
cedarbridge wrote:What if we just removed antag roles instead

No u

Re: Server Crash responsibility, antag token giveaway and more

PostPosted: Mon Mar 25, 2019 6:15 pm
by Gamarr
Stickymayhem wrote:You did not earn antag, you are not entitled to a good regular round, nor a good antag round. You are entitled to nothing. The game is a shithole of chaos.

Bingo.
Antag tokens are bad because then people think they are entitled to them when in this game you're entitled to nothing. The things are basically an urban myth that is now and again perpetuated when they're handed out for whatever stupid reason. Remove the function so it don't exist and this stupid argument will stop cropping up.

Re: Server Crash responsibility, antag token giveaway and more

PostPosted: Mon Mar 25, 2019 11:47 pm
by lmwevil
headmins should just lock this entitled thread lmao

Re: Server Crash responsibility, antag token giveaway and more

PostPosted: Tue Mar 26, 2019 1:09 pm
by Tlaltecuhtli
only way to get an antag coin from a server crash would be if an admin caused the crash by doing esotheric things with code and he would by give coins by his own will, if you complain about no antag coins you ll be laughed at

Re: Server Crash responsibility, antag token giveaway and more

PostPosted: Tue Mar 26, 2019 3:19 pm
by Daxxed
I ded, dieing to a bug doesn’t give you a free revive either so why would losing a tator roll matter.
Next thing you’re gonna want tokens for pressing “yes” but not getting it...

Re: Server Crash responsibility, antag token giveaway and more

PostPosted: Tue Mar 26, 2019 10:41 pm
by BeeSting12
Antag is a privilege not a right. OP is entitled and should be barred from ever getting antag tokens