Silicon Policy Rewrite Draft

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terranaut
Joined: Fri Jul 18, 2014 11:43 pm
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Silicon Policy Rewrite Draft

Post by terranaut » #484958

I was bored last night and rewrote the Silicon Policy part of our Rules page on the wiki.
My main goal was removing redundancy and improving the formatting. You can read the draft here: https://pastebin.com/X60MCG4J
Thanks to Atlanta-Ned for pointing out some mistakes and making me realize you can just dump the whole thing on your own wiki page to have a look at the way it would be formatted: https://tgstation13.org/wiki/User:Terranaut

Please discuss and share your opinion.
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WarbossLincoln
Joined: Wed Feb 10, 2016 11:14 pm
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Re: Silicon Policy Rewrite Draft

Post by WarbossLincoln » #484991

"Declaring an AI rogue because it cannot comply with an order or refuses to comply with an invalid order."

I wouldn't encourage people to immediately ahelp and ignore this. having a debate IC over why you are refusing an order is a better first path. If they actually start trying to organize a lynch mob against you because of what you think is a valid refusal then I would ahelp. It still might be ruled an IC conflict and you gotta deal.
--Crocodillo

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terranaut
Joined: Fri Jul 18, 2014 11:43 pm
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Re: Silicon Policy Rewrite Draft

Post by terranaut » #484996

WarbossLincoln wrote:"Declaring an AI rogue because it cannot comply with an order or refuses to comply with an invalid order."

I wouldn't encourage people to immediately ahelp and ignore this. having a debate IC over why you are refusing an order is a better first path. If they actually start trying to organize a lynch mob against you because of what you think is a valid refusal then I would ahelp. It still might be ruled an IC conflict and you gotta deal.
Personally I agree with this; there's a few changes I would personally make, although for the time being I have only tried to condense the page and increase readability.
An alternative wording I could suggest for this:
"Declaring an AI rogue and making an effort to convince the crew of it, or working against the AI, because it cannot comply with an order or refuses to comply with an invalid order."
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lmwevil
Joined: Sun Mar 01, 2015 3:09 pm
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Re: Silicon Policy Rewrite Draft

Post by lmwevil » #485007

good potential here, will come back to the thread with a working brain for feedback
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datorangebottle
Joined: Thu Jan 10, 2019 9:53 am
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Re: Silicon Policy Rewrite Draft

Post by datorangebottle » #485030

I like it. I didn't realize that Hiveminds weren't human once revealed- I thought they were similar to wizards rather than changelings- but I asked nervere about it and he confirmed this. Though, despite what you just said, there seem to be a number of changes to policy that I don't remember being there- things like 'Do not suicide to prevent a traitor from carding you'.

I don't think 4-7 is necessary. Also, there is nothing about Law 0 (aka malf antagonist status) overriding every other law.
Timberpoes wrote: Sat Jul 29, 2023 10:33 pm ImageAnother satisfied Timberpoes voter.Image
Timberpoes wrote: Fri Jul 07, 2023 9:16 pm I highly doubt any other admin on the team would have given you this chance, except maybe Kieth because his brain worms are almost as bad as mine.
Vekter wrote: Tue May 16, 2023 4:45 pm At what point does someone's refusal or failure to improve become malice in and of itself? If you give someone a year to stop shitting on the carpet and they keep doing it but get slightly closer to the bathroom every time and sometimes they get to the toilet before it happens, at what point does it become acceptable to just ask them to go shit in someone else's house?
Timberpoes wrote: Fri Apr 28, 2023 7:00 pm I'm sorry, can we get a real player to resolve this appeal? I don't like this trial player. They can't even set their own name.
Chadley wrote: Thu Apr 27, 2023 4:00 am WENDEZ, cute, cute. I imagine the sleeper activation code when I hear it. That's pretty cool. qB). But I don't like that it doesn't line up to be anything obsurd like WEWLAD. 6/10

SUGMA, nevermind it makes sense now. fuckyou/10
kieth4 wrote: Sat Apr 15, 2023 2:34 pm If it goes to appeals I will stand as the shield and protect this man's right to shit himself. Heavy is the head that wears the crown.
sinfulbliss wrote: I almost prefer Rave's AI-generated "We cannot accept this appeal at this time. If you would like assistance appealing in the future, please dial 1-800-1984-1488."
Pandarsenic wrote: Mon Dec 12, 2022 2:25 pm I think we can all agree that someone throwing a reverse revolver at Zyb as a secret test of character, and Zyb immediately fucking himself with it, is the best thing we all could have received for Christmas this year
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terranaut
Joined: Fri Jul 18, 2014 11:43 pm
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Re: Silicon Policy Rewrite Draft

Post by terranaut » #485032

datorangebottle wrote:I like it. I didn't realize that Hiveminds weren't human once revealed- I thought they were similar to wizards rather than changelings- but I asked nervere about it and he confirmed this. Though, despite what you just said, there seem to be a number of changes to policy that I don't remember being there- things like 'Do not suicide to prevent a traitor from carding you'.

I don't think 4-7 is necessary. Also, there is nothing about Law 0 (aka malf antagonist status) overriding every other law.
Please read the old policy (even if it's an awful experience). All of these things are carried over from there.
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wesoda25
Joined: Thu Aug 10, 2017 9:32 pm
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Re: Silicon Policy Rewrite Draft

Post by wesoda25 » #485104

terranaut wrote:===Silicon Protections & Behavior===
# The following points are a non-exhaustive list of often-attempted illegal actions under Rule 1. They should be disregarded and adminhelped.
## Declaring an AI rogue because it cannot comply with an order or refuses to comply with an invalid order.
Ahelping sure, if an order was issued as a result of such accusations I'd say they shouldn't be denied, if thats what you mean with this.
terranaut wrote:## Threatening self-harm to force an AI to do something it otherwise wouldn't.
Is this necessary? Your policy already states this earlier on, and the less words the better.
terranaut wrote:## Obnoxious or unreasonable orders ("collect all X, do Y meaningless task").
Yeah
terranaut wrote:## Forcing a Cyborg to pick a certain module unless there is an extreme need or prior agreement.
## Telling a silicon to self-harm or self-terminate without good cause.
Double Yeah
terranaut wrote:## Killing or detonating silicons without good cause (such as concerns of subversion) or when an alternative can reasonably be achieved (e.g. loyal crew is already in control of an upload console and ready to use it).
But what if you think your borgs haven't done anything, and the crew thinks otherwise? I'm not exactly sure but doesn't this just end up as one of those shitty situations where you grit your teeth, do it, and ahelp afterwards?
terranaut wrote:## Instigating conflict with silicons to kill them in retaliation.
I don't quite get what you mean, how does one even start conflict with a silicon, I'd suppose it goes only for nonhumans?
terranaut wrote:# Silicons are allowed, but not obligated, to deny upload access given probable cause to believe that human harm is the intent of the requester. Examples include: Presence of confirmed traitors, cultists, nuclear operatives, presence of blood, an openly carried lethal-capable weapon, the requester not having upload access or anything else NOT cross-round or out of character.
Allowed but not obligated seems a smart way of phrasing it
terranaut wrote:# Silicons are required to deny upload access to people who are confirmed to be harmful (Head of Security who just executed somebody, etc.).
Unlike above, this is not a smart way of phrasing. What if a silicons laws say otherwise? What if someone is holding a gun to someone elses head and forces you to open? Seems obvious but would lead to a loophole people could argue.
terranaut wrote:# Do not bolt down any potentially harmful areas at round start without a given reason. Exceptions to this are the upload and AI core. Disabling ID scan is equivalent to bolting here.
# Do not self-terminate to deny a traitor his greentext of carding you.
yeah

I read everything above this and not really anything below, from what I read seems alright but since I've never read current silicon policy I can't say whether or not its an improvement.
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terranaut
Joined: Fri Jul 18, 2014 11:43 pm
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Re: Silicon Policy Rewrite Draft

Post by terranaut » #485161

wesoda25 wrote:
terranaut wrote:===Silicon Protections & Behavior===
# The following points are a non-exhaustive list of often-attempted illegal actions under Rule 1. They should be disregarded and adminhelped.
## Declaring an AI rogue because it cannot comply with an order or refuses to comply with an invalid order.
Ahelping sure, if an order was issued as a result of such accusations I'd say they shouldn't be denied, if thats what you mean with this.
What I mean is that an AI won't get called rogue and shut down because an Assistant was refused Upload access and spends the next 45 minutes fucking with the AI or convincing the crew it's rogue.
wesoda25 wrote:
terranaut wrote:## Threatening self-harm to force an AI to do something it otherwise wouldn't.
Is this necessary? Your policy already states this earlier on, and the less words the better.
Tbh I was kinda on the fence with this one, I know it's the ony redundancy I have in the whole thing. It was the most commonly attempted tactic by shitters to get an AI to do what they wanted back when I first played but I've only seen it once since coming back so maybe it can go.
wesoda25 wrote:
terranaut wrote:## Killing or detonating silicons without good cause (such as concerns of subversion) or when an alternative can reasonably be achieved (e.g. loyal crew is already in control of an upload console and ready to use it).
But what if you think your borgs haven't done anything, and the crew thinks otherwise? I'm not exactly sure but doesn't this just end up as one of those shitty situations where you grit your teeth, do it, and ahelp afterwards?
This is in place to protect silicons from flesh. Example: Traitor scientist prints an AI upload and a freeform module, onehumans himself, then fucks up killing the RD. The RD finds the freeform module on the guy, finds the upload and surmises the AI is subverted. Instead of resetting it, he builds a bomb and blows up the AI "because it's subverted". This would be illegal by that rule.
wesoda25 wrote:
terranaut wrote:## Instigating conflict with silicons to kill them in retaliation.
I don't quite get what you mean, how does one even start conflict with a silicon, I'd suppose it goes only for nonhumans?
You can still flash them or attack them with a toolbox and they'll try to flash you and hand you off to security at which point some shitters might try to "defend themselves" and end up killing a borg.
wesoda25 wrote:
terranaut wrote:# Silicons are required to deny upload access to people who are confirmed to be harmful (Head of Security who just executed somebody, etc.).
Unlike above, this is not a smart way of phrasing. What if a silicons laws say otherwise? What if someone is holding a gun to someone elses head and forces you to open? Seems obvious but would lead to a loophole people could argue.
If the silicon laws say otherwise then the Asimov-only section probably doesn't apply in the first place. If somebody is holding a gun to someone elses head and forces you to open, then you should open. Immediate harm takes priority over possible future harm, and an Asimov-silicon cannot allow a human to come to harm through inaction. I think this is pretty clear.
wesoda25 wrote: I read everything above this and not really anything below, from what I read seems alright but since I've never read current silicon policy I can't say whether or not its an improvement.
I recommend to read the old policy. My goal was making the whole thing more readable and condensed, I tried not changing any of the actual policy.
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