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Sniping
Posted: Sun Apr 07, 2019 7:54 pm
by D&B
Bottom post of the previous page:
I'll preface with some examples:
In league and Dota, if you set up a stream, it is up to you to obscure the minimap and add a delay if you knowingly expose yourself tp revealing round crucial information.
In CSGO and R6S, likewise, you are voluntarily opening yourself up to being seen, so a delay in the stream is recommendes since the player is the one exposing themselves.
With that being said, if a player exposes himself by revealing round crucial information, which infringes on some metagaming rulea caused by their own actions (and inactions if no delay is inputted,) how the fuck is it good policy to note people for carelessnes in their part?
How do you even start confirming between metagaming and stream sniping if you can't log how they get their position without pulling at thin straws which could or could not be fake?
Re: Sniping
Posted: Mon Apr 15, 2019 4:53 am
by Farquaar
Maybe I'm just an old fogey, but I fail to see why SS13 is the kind of game that would be good if streamed live in the first place.
"Alright chat, should I pie this guy? Type 1 for pie and 2 for no pie. I'm getting a lot of ones here. Alright, we're gonna throw a pie at 'em. Let me just type out a message over the radio here to lure him back.... Just got a $10 donation from DIGBICK98, who says we should tie him up and put him in a dress. Type 1 for dress and 2 for no dress. I'm getting a lot of ones here. Alright, we're gonna put a dress on 'em"
Re: Sniping
Posted: Mon Apr 15, 2019 5:23 am
by cedarbridge
Farquaar wrote:Maybe I'm just an old fogey, but I fail to see why SS13 is the kind of game that would be good if streamed live in the first place.
"Alright chat, should I pie this guy? Type 1 for pie and 2 for no pie. I'm getting a lot of ones here. Alright, we're gonna throw a pie at 'em. Let me just type out a message over the radio here to lure him back.... Just got a $10 donation from DIGBICK98, who says we should tie him up and put him in a dress. Type 1 for dress and 2 for no dress. I'm getting a lot of ones here. Alright, we're gonna put a dress on 'em"
What kind of garbage streams are you watching?
Re: Sniping
Posted: Mon Apr 15, 2019 6:32 am
by Grazyn
Cobby wrote:
In Social Games like TOS/Throne of Lies/etc. it's relatively easier to log since you don't see someone do X on the gamescreen, you get text saying "you see X". Even then, it's difficult to claim someone is sniping in those games since there's plenty roles with investigation capabilities and it's literally the job of some roles to frame people regardless of who they are. In SS13 you can also get audio/visual clues, which means if you're not being blatant about it we have to fine tooth comb every log you have and we still might not find anything. Doing that for every sniping claim that isn't "George Melons says 'get rekd (streamer username)'" is going to get annoying real quick real fast. Even just sifting through chat is going to suck tbh.
I don't necessarily "hate" the streamer, but it's extremely difficult to prove sniping or any other meta rule unless they sniper is being blatant about it. I'm willing to bet right now there are people playing who are being influenced ICly by information they obtained OOCly and we don't know it.
If you guys are okay with that risk then fine whatever, but I personally would rather minimize meta opportunities where we can. I think the best option is treat streaming just like metagaming outside of uncommon occasions (such as the charity event) where admins have forward notice and we can PB if needed (assuming the sniper is just joining the server).
As you said, metagaming happens all the time. If someone is not being blatant about it, is only doing minor adjustments based on OOC info, to the point that no one can notice it, I mean... does it even matter? This isn't a competitive sport, it's not the Olympics, who cares if an assistant learnt from ghost chat that the AI is malf and went to acquire insulated gloves after being cloned? Oh no, the round balance has been permanently compromised, bring out the banhammer and antag tokens.
I agree that streaming increases the risks somewhat. I think the risks are so minor it's not worth banning the streamer over it. Maybe yeah, just add the caveat that admins have to be informed so they can keep an extra eye on edge cases (like someone "accidentally" stumbling over a hidden corpse)
Re: Sniping
Posted: Mon Apr 15, 2019 5:27 pm
by Farquaar
cedarbridge wrote:Farquaar wrote:Maybe I'm just an old fogey, but I fail to see why SS13 is the kind of game that would be good if streamed live in the first place.
"Alright chat, should I pie this guy? Type 1 for pie and 2 for no pie. I'm getting a lot of ones here. Alright, we're gonna throw a pie at 'em. Let me just type out a message over the radio here to lure him back.... Just got a $10 donation from DIGBICK98, who says we should tie him up and put him in a dress. Type 1 for dress and 2 for no dress. I'm getting a lot of ones here. Alright, we're gonna put a dress on 'em"
What kind of garbage streams are you watching?
What would a good SS13 stream look like?
Re: Sniping
Posted: Mon Apr 15, 2019 5:34 pm
by cedarbridge
Farquaar wrote:cedarbridge wrote:Farquaar wrote:Maybe I'm just an old fogey, but I fail to see why SS13 is the kind of game that would be good if streamed live in the first place.
"Alright chat, should I pie this guy? Type 1 for pie and 2 for no pie. I'm getting a lot of ones here. Alright, we're gonna throw a pie at 'em. Let me just type out a message over the radio here to lure him back.... Just got a $10 donation from DIGBICK98, who says we should tie him up and put him in a dress. Type 1 for dress and 2 for no dress. I'm getting a lot of ones here. Alright, we're gonna put a dress on 'em"
What kind of garbage streams are you watching?
What would a good SS13 stream look like?
I've mentioned this before but GTAVRP has a rather sizeable streaming community. They also ban people in their chats for offering or attempting to offer metagaming information about other streamers. They develop characters, play out their characters on screen, have some banter with their viewers while playing and occasionally have a "hey watch this" or "alright here goes" moment before they attempt something unusual or difficult. It doesn't have to be the sort of thing you're into but it works out well enough to have a pretty loyal following.
Its a stream not a pay2COYA.
Re: Sniping
Posted: Tue Apr 16, 2019 2:09 am
by skoglol
Some of you take this game way too seriously.
I would like to remind you all that anyone who dies gets to be a ghost with perfect information until they are revived/cloned. This means they can find antags/targets/objects etc quite easily. People are expected to not use information gained as ghost in rounds, I honestly do not understand why you think people are suddenly incapable of following the rules as soon as a livestream is involved. This is of course assuming people bother watching a stream while playing in the same round in the first place.
Obviously metagangs forming around streamers are bad, but if someone is serious about streaming this they should be expected to help avoid this. Sniping the streamer is harder to avoid, but also potentially much more obvious and easy to deal with.
Re: Sniping
Posted: Tue Apr 16, 2019 8:18 am
by lmwevil
wtf skog is reasonable, think that he has a good point
i personally think GTA rp is funnier due to verbal components, whereas in spessmans there is certainly less of that brand of fuckery for example.
tl;dr spessmens streams are boring but people who want to metacom will do it regardless if XXCOOLDUDE22XX is streaming or not
Re: Sniping
Posted: Tue Apr 16, 2019 8:20 am
by Grazyn
I wish ss13 had local voip like GTA
Re: Sniping
Posted: Mon Apr 22, 2019 12:44 am
by Hulkamania
We've talked it over and we've decided that we will be disallowing streaming in its entirety from our server. It creates too many administrative headaches and potential for abuse to be allowed, while providing little benefit in return. If we add special restrictions and rules to streaming we'd need admins to check in and make sure those restrictions are being followed (such as a delay) when they're already busy trying to administrate on the server in the first place.
The exception to all of this is that during certain special events such as the charity toolbox event or the balls we may lift this restriction.